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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Mac Pro Video Card Upgrade

Mac Pro Video Card Upgrade
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htdefiant
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Dec 11, 2007, 05:39 PM
 
I've got the standard GeForce 7300 GT in my Mac Pro. I am new when it comes to video cards, so would someone be kind enough to lay out the possible upgrade routes, and their benefits?

Thanks
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mduell
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Dec 11, 2007, 07:24 PM
 
Currently it's just the X1900XT (with all it's overheating/freezing problems) and the FX4500 (a professional card with a professional price). I'd wait for Apple to release the new Mac Pro with new graphics cards (probably from the nVidia 8800 series).
     
htdefiant  (op)
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Dec 11, 2007, 08:59 PM
 
Do you think the 8800 will swap with my 7300?
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cgc
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Dec 11, 2007, 10:07 PM
 
It should, I'll be in line right behind u...rdy to upgrade 7300...
     
SierraDragon
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Dec 11, 2007, 10:12 PM
 
Yup, what Mark said. Wait to see what becomes available at Mac Expo SF January 15th and hope that cards built for the new MPs also work in the old MPs.

-Allen Wicks
     
mduell
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Dec 11, 2007, 10:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by htdefiant View Post
Do you think the 8800 will swap with my 7300?
Yes.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Yup, what Mark said. Wait to see what becomes available at Mac Expo SF January 15th and hope that cards built for the new MPs also work in the old MPs.
Shouldn't be a problem; PCI Express 2.0 is fully backward compatible.
     
htdefiant  (op)
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Dec 12, 2007, 04:47 PM
 
Cool. I guess we just have to play the waiting game now.
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Richard Richard
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Dec 16, 2007, 07:13 AM
 
the worst bit aboot the x1900 is the noise

my pro is basically silent apart from that whining whirring monstrosity and it gets clogged up with dust every 5 minutes
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sinosleep
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Dec 17, 2007, 01:00 AM
 
How sure are you guys about the 8800 series being backwards compatible if the new mac pros make the switch? The video card issue is the ONLY thing stopping me from getting the current version so if it's a lock that I'll be able to swap the new series in a current mac pro I think I may just go ahead and ebay a current one and call it a day. This wait has been absolutely ridiculous and if I can put a stop to it I will.
     
svtcontour
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Dec 17, 2007, 02:42 AM
 
I put an 8800GT in my PC which has a board that is not PCI-E 2.0 and its fine. I think the PCI-E 2.0 change is mostly about how much power draw can occur through the PCI-E bus. As long as the card has an external connector for power, it should be fine (from what I understood anyway).
     
Tesselator
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Jan 9, 2008, 09:30 PM
 
So are they out yet? When I go to: Apple - Mac Pro - Tech Specs it says the options are
now:

Graphics and displays
Double-wide, 16-lane PCI Express 2.0 graphics slot with one of the following graphics cards installed:
  • ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports.
  • NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports.
  • NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 with 1.5GB of GDDR3 memory, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port.


And which is better the 8800 or the 2600 ?
     
MarkLT1
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Jan 9, 2008, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
And which is better the 8800 or the 2600 ?
8800 by a long shot.
     
Tesselator
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Jan 9, 2008, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by MarkLT1 View Post
8800 by a long shot.
Thanks man!
     
Simon
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Jan 10, 2008, 04:49 AM
 
You can't put the 8800 GT in the Woodcrest/Clovertown MPs. As long as Apple doesn't offer an EFI32 compatible version of the 8800 GT, the X1900 XT is your only bet on an old MP.
     
shinji
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Jan 10, 2008, 07:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
You can't put the 8800 GT in the Woodcrest/Clovertown MPs. As long as Apple doesn't offer an EFI32 compatible version of the 8800 GT, the X1900 XT is your only bet on an old MP.
Would the 2600 work in an old MP, Simon?
     
Cadaver
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
You can't put the 8800 GT in the Woodcrest/Clovertown MPs. As long as Apple doesn't offer an EFI32 compatible version of the 8800 GT, the X1900 XT is your only bet on an old MP.
Why do you say that? I've seen no documentation yet that the 8800 GT Apple is offering wont work in the original Mac Pro. Even Apple's online store description doesn't specify that it wont work (though I'll admit it also doesn't specify that it will).
If you have a source, I'd be very interested in seeing it, as I've pre-ordered one for my original Mac Pro.
     
Macadvo
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:26 AM
 
That information comes from barefeats who in turn got it from the developers at Blizzard. As yet, even though this info seems to come from a reliable source, it is unconfirmed as to whether or not the 8800GT will work in Woodcrest/Clovertown Mac Pros. Even Rob from barefeats has one on order and isn't cancelling despite receiving this info.

Mine is due to be with me on the 23/24th Jan, hopefully we'll have confirmation one way or the other before then but if not I'll let you know how I get on.
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Cadaver
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:30 AM
 
Yeah, just saw that this morning. I also have one on order, and just for sh!ts and giggles, I also ordered a Radeon 2600 card. Should have that sometime next week. I'll post back if that card works (or doesn't).
     
Macadvo
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:36 AM
 
lol you must have more money than sense
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Cadaver
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Macadvo View Post
lol you must have more money than sense
Probably. But right now I'm running a 7300GT, which isn't cutting it. I had a X1900XT which croaked but is out of warranty (and I tried hard to get Apple to replace or fix it). I need more power than the 7300GT (its pushing a 30" display), but don't really need a gamer board.

I'll simply return (unopened) or cancel the order on the 8800GT if it turns out it wont work. But I'd rather not have to spend $400 (again) to replace the 7300GT. The Radeon 2600 would be fine if it works, a definite improvement over the 7300GT, and its only $150, which I think is fair.
     
Macadvo
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Jan 10, 2008, 10:49 AM
 
I would imagine that if the 8800GT won't work then neither will the 2600. My betting is that they'll both work though (for my own sanity)
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Leonard
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Jan 10, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
Probably. But right now I'm running a 7300GT, which isn't cutting it. I had a X1900XT which croaked but is out of warranty (and I tried hard to get Apple to replace or fix it).
Did you buy the X1900XT separately from the Mac Pro or did you get the Mac Pro BTO with the X1900XT?
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dlary
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Jan 10, 2008, 07:22 PM
 
I ordered one yesterday and found a phone message from Apple today informing me that the Nvidia 8800gt card would only work on the new MacPro. I am appalled that Apple would pull a stunt like this. Requiring one to purchase a new computer just to upgrade a video card is ridiculous.
     
Cadaver
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Jan 10, 2008, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post
Did you buy the X1900XT separately from the Mac Pro or did you get the Mac Pro BTO with the X1900XT?
Separately.
     
Cadaver
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Jan 10, 2008, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by dlary View Post
I ordered one yesterday and found a phone message from Apple today informing me that the Nvidia 8800gt card would only work on the new MacPro. I am appalled that Apple would pull a stunt like this. Requiring one to purchase a new computer just to upgrade a video card is ridiculous.
You don't have to buy a new computer just to upgrade the video card. But the video card upgrades for the original Mac Pros costs $2500.00 and happen to come with a free rev. 2 Mac Pro.
     
MallyMal
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Jan 11, 2008, 12:43 AM
 
This doesn't affect me because I bought one of the new MPs. But I can understand the frustration. My question is why only complain on MacNN? It seems to me that a lot of mac users have the relationship between Apple and themselves backward. You act as if Apple buys stuff from you instead of you buying stuff from Apple. If you guys don't complain to Apple you won't get what you need. Everytime I bring this point up people seem to ignore it.
     
shinji
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Jan 11, 2008, 01:18 AM
 
Thinking about doing the same thing Cadaver is. I called around to the two local Apple stores and neither one had either upgrade in stock, even though they had the new Mac Pro's in stock.

I'm not a gamer and don't do any 3d, so hopefully the 2600 is fine.
     
Macadvo
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Jan 11, 2008, 02:08 AM
 
A little update for you all.

Apparently Rob Art has been told by ATi that the 2600 is working fine in pre 2008 Mac Pros that they have in the lab, so it IS possible to have a card that works in both.

The news of the 8800GT has started to hit the news sites, first on Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English it is also on digg (which I've never really understood tbh), a guy on the MacRumors forums has also started a petition. The guys on arstechnica forums are urging people to email Steve Jobs (I tried to [email protected] but they say [email protected]) saying that this may illicit a response.

So, email Steve, get the big news sites reporting this, make it a BIG issue, give Apple some negative press about this just prior to Macworld, throughout Macworld and (if possible) after Macworld. Let's not let them forget it.
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Simon
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Jan 11, 2008, 04:41 AM
 
With regards to the new MP cards working in older MPs, Apple has now clarified. And thy're pretty clear about it:

Mac Pro: Video cards from Power Mac G5 computers are not supported

"...All of these cards are only compatible with the family of computers with which they shipped..."
     
Richard Richard
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Jan 11, 2008, 04:47 AM
 
so it looks like you can replace a noisy x1900 with a brand spanking new and nice and quiet 8800 !

OH JOY !
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Simon
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Jan 11, 2008, 04:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Richard Richard View Post
so it looks like you can replace a noisy x1900 with a brand spanking new and nice and quiet 8800 !
Umm, no.

It actually looks like quite the opposite.
     
Macadvo
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Jan 11, 2008, 05:02 AM
 
That tech document is hardly clear IMHO. After all it's title is "Video cards from Power Mac G5 computers are not supported" hinting that we can't use video cards from Power Mac G5's in our Mac Pros (as if we'd want to). I'd guess this techdoc has been up for a while and has only just been updated with the new Mac Pro cards.

Oh, the statement that "All of these cards are only compatible with the family of computers with which they shipped" is plainly wrong as not only have ATi told Rob Art that the 2600 works in older Mac Pros but a guy on the macrumors forums has bought one and is using it happily in his old Mac Pro.

The mud thickens even further...
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Simon
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Jan 11, 2008, 05:12 AM
 
I find it hard to believe that Apple is telling people specifically NOT to use a card that wasn't released with their generation of MP when it should work just fine. They will be taking a lot of heat for this so I would expect them to have this policy only if there really is a technical reason for it.

That said, we should have more reports soon. Basically all it takes is some guy to buy a new stock MP, remove the 2600 XT and put it in his old MP. That of course won't tell us for certain what the deal is with the 8800 GT, but it would be a first step.
     
flabasha
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Jan 11, 2008, 11:54 AM
 
This may be incredibly stupid, but is the 2600xt an upgrade from the x1900? On another thread, posters seemed to be implying it was actually not as good a card as the old x1900, but it wasn't clear (and the thread was sort of hijacked).
     
Cadaver
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Jan 11, 2008, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by flabasha View Post
This may be incredibly stupid, but is the 2600xt an upgrade from the x1900? On another thread, posters seemed to be implying it was actually not as good a card as the old x1900, but it wasn't clear (and the thread was sort of hijacked).
Sort of. The 2x00 series is the "next gen" chip series from ATI which supports DX10 functions (newest pixel shader functions); the 1x00 series does not support DX10 functions. The 2600XT is slower, however, than the 1900XT in terms of absolute fill rates, triangles per second, etc.
     
SierraDragon
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Jan 11, 2008, 01:17 PM
 
Sheesh. C'mon, be patient and see what all the post-Expo solutions are (or are not) next week.

-Allen Wicks
     
CatOne
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Jan 11, 2008, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
You don't have to buy a new computer just to upgrade the video card. But the video card upgrades for the original Mac Pros costs $2500.00 and happen to come with a free rev. 2 Mac Pro.
     
The Ancient One
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Jan 11, 2008, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Currently it's just the X1900XT (with all it's overheating/freezing problems) and the FX4500 (a professional card with a professional price). I'd wait for Apple to release the new Mac Pro with new graphics cards (probably from the nVidia 8800 series).
I had those problems with my X1900 XT, along with graphics artifacts. I had ordered the Mac Pro with it in August 2006. Apple support said "Oh, that's the World of Warcraft bug" and shipped me an updated X1900 XT. I sent the old card back and all is well (so far). Apparently there was a problem with some of the early cards, and I believe the new ones are assembled by a different company. AppleCare is good.
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Oversoul
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Jan 11, 2008, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Ancient One View Post
I had those problems with my X1900 XT, along with graphics artifacts. I had ordered the Mac Pro with it in August 2006. Apple support said "Oh, that's the World of Warcraft bug" and shipped me an updated X1900 XT. I sent the old card back and all is well (so far). Apparently there was a problem with some of the early cards, and I believe the new ones are assembled by a different company. AppleCare is good.
Same problem but I didn't get it so easy. Apple Support required me to bring my MP into a Genius Bar for "further investigation." Once there, my genius didn't even turn on my MP to have a look. He just typed down my report on a work order form and shuffled it to the back. Three weeks and after a lot of grief later (), I got a new X1900 XT, which is what I told them was faulty to begin with.

Somewhat disappointed that the 8800GT is not compatible with the rev. 1 MPs, but I think I may be able to hold off another year on this machine before upgrading, graphics card along with it.
     
Macadvo
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Jan 11, 2008, 04:25 PM
 
You're lucky, I've only had my Mac Pro for 5 months and there's no way I'm looking to drop that amount of cash again for at least 2 years. My next purchase was going to be an Apple 30 inch display (as the 23 looks so small now lol) but after seeing their (alleged) support for their pro line I think I'll look at Dell or HP for my 30inch loveliness.

I'll know for sure on the 24th (or hopefully 23rd) when my 8800GT arrives.
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mduell
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Jan 11, 2008, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
With regards to the new MP cards working in older MPs, Apple has now clarified. And thy're pretty clear about it:

"...All of these cards are only compatible with the family of computers with which they shipped..."
Ambiguous statement. Is "Mac Pro" a family and release date a generation? Or does each release date make for a new family?
That the 2600XT works with both implies either the statement is false or the Mac Pro is all one family.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I find it hard to believe that Apple is telling people specifically NOT to use a card that wasn't released with their generation of MP when it should work just fine.
Where does Apple say anything about generations?
     
Macadvo
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Jan 11, 2008, 09:00 PM
 
Well, they don't. Not in that document anyway.

Come the 24th I'll know for sure.
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Captain Curt
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Jan 12, 2008, 01:02 AM
 
Well, it does not seem that the Apple writers are bathing themselves in clarity. It appears that there are five possibilities.

1) Gamers rejoice. We have a great upgrade card running at full speed. THANK YOU APPLE!

2) Apple does provide an upgrade card that is backward compatible but does not have the native PCI-E 2.0 speed. Thank you Apple for any kind of upgrade.

3) We hear in the distant future there may be a upgrade card. Back to more of the same. Hello Apple, remember us?

4) Brave souls smoke their old Mac Pros trying the new cards. We hear rumors of Mr. Jobs's personal jet being painted pink.

5) Brave souls smoke and fire their old Mac Pros trying the new cards. We all help paint Mr. Jobs's yacht and private jet pink.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the envelope please.....
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Macadvo
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Jan 12, 2008, 04:39 AM
 
This was posted on the Macrumors forums last night while I was at work....

I finally got through to a competent product support supervisor after waiting on hold for an hour. He went and spoke to a couple different Mac Pro engineers to find out what was going on. He said that Apple expected the cards to be fully backwards compatible with the Mac Pros back through August of 2006. They didn't realize until two days ago that they weren't working in the older MPs. That is why the Apple Store didn't specify that they were only for the early 2008 machines, they weren't. He said the engineers are currently trying to figure out what the problem is and if it is something that nVidia can correct. I asked him if he had to bet would he say the 8800GT will someday work in my Mac Pro from Sept. of 06 and he said "as long as there isn't a technical issue that prevents it."

So, according to him Apple's only real mistake was not testing the cards early enough to prevent it going on sale the way they did. He also said they were way over due for a graphics card upgrade and mentioned the problems with the 1900XT. I asked him why they weren't letting us know what was going on and he said that the problem took them by surprise and they are scrambling to solve it.
Thought it was quite interesting.
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Simon
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Jan 12, 2008, 04:45 AM
 
It takes a lot of wishful thinking to believe Apple's actually considering all MPs to be one single family. The way that document is laid out they're pretty much indicating you can use the cards only with the PM or MP generation with which they were released.

That said, the document could be more clear. It's especially annoying when we have reports indicating that while the 2600 works in older MPs, the 8800 doesn't. No matter how this document is interpreted it's not consistent with those reports.
     
mduell
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Jan 12, 2008, 11:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Curt View Post
1) Gamers rejoice. We have a great upgrade card running at full speed. THANK YOU APPLE!

2) Apple does provide an upgrade card that is backward compatible but does not have the native PCI-E 2.0 speed. Thank you Apple for any kind of upgrade.

3) We hear in the distant future there may be a upgrade card. Back to more of the same. Hello Apple, remember us?

4) Brave souls smoke their old Mac Pros trying the new cards. We hear rumors of Mr. Jobs's personal jet being painted pink.

5) Brave souls smoke and fire their old Mac Pros trying the new cards. We all help paint Mr. Jobs's yacht and private jet pink.
1 is out because the older chipsets don't support PCIe 2.0. Not that there's much of a performance penalty to using PCIe 1.x.

4 and 5 are out because it's a logical incompatibility not an electrical one.
     
shinji
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Jan 14, 2008, 03:26 PM
 
Apple called me this morning to say the X2600 does not work in the old Mac Pro's, however I think I'm going to live dangerous and keep the order anyway.
     
Meadowfield
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Jan 15, 2008, 08:56 PM
 
If I may reach back to the original inquiry - what real life benefit does the 8800 have over the stock 2600 offered in the new 08's?
     
newtech
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Jan 15, 2008, 09:14 PM
 
Much better 3D graphics acceleration. Faster/smoother Core Image/Core Animation.
     
mduell
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Jan 15, 2008, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Meadowfield View Post
If I may reach back to the original inquiry - what real life benefit does the 8800 have over the stock 2600 offered in the new 08's?
It's about 3 times faster.
     
 
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