[scubasteve657]

I took me 3 tries to get it right, and once made it worse, but this solution seems to work quite well!

A few notes: I used the high heat setting on my heat gun. (450) I know the forum said to use low, but after 20 minutes that did nothing so I risked using high. It took about 10 minutes. I used a small hunk of solder on top of the gpu to gauge the process. I held the heat for a count of 45 after the solder melted.

And it worked!

[jonsaw]

seanc:

Some iBook G4s suffer from the same loose graphics chip problem as the iBook G3s, as I stated in my prior messages. Is the redesign of the iBook G4 that you're referring to, the introduction of a heat sink clamped to the top of the graphics chip, applying pressure to the chip? If so, that doesn't always do the job, and it can't prevent the ball grid solder joints under the iBook G4's graphics chip from coming loose. Re-read my posts from Feb 2 and Feb 5. You're right that many of the iBook G4s suffer from bad solder joints on the memory controller chip on the underside of the logic board, and that these solder joints can be easily resoldered without using a heat gun, or just shimmed, but the ease with which this problem can be fixed using a hand soldering iron, which makes it a permanent repair, makes the shim approach less desirable since it doesn't always last.

[jonsaw]

Interesting, Macfan55--I never thought of heating the whole logic board in an oven. I wonder if there would be a difference in success rate, between using the type of oven you used, a hot-air/convection oven, and a regular oven?

[Idkfawin32]

Wow....
This thread has been alive since: Apr 22, 2004 , 05:20 AM
Thats 4 years ago today in about 7-8 hours ago. Does that break any world records?

Ill celebrate this 4th anniversary by fixing my logic board on my iBook. But I have a different problem. Instead of video problems my problems are more "Battery Problems". YOuve probably heard it before.

Ok heres the details...
-iBook G3 800mhz 32vRam
-new Dc-in board
-new battery
-new power adapter
-zapped pram, nvram, and reset pmu.

Battery has 3 dots displayed when I press the button on it.

My iBook will not recognize it. It will not power on without being plugged in. I've tried everything. What should I do.

P.S - I don't have any apple stores near me..

[jonsaw]

Idkfawin32:

Yes, this thread's had a pretty good lifespan. Hopefully people will keep adding to it as they discover new things.

Resolder the battery connector's joints on the logic board. If that doesn't do it, the circuitry that interfaces the battery to the logic board may be fried. It might be possible to fix this, but you'd need to identify which parts are bad, and replace them. I don't have any info on identifying or buying these parts.

[Guy Kuo]

Originally Posted by jonsaw 

Idkfawin32:

Yes, this thread's had a pretty good lifespan. Hopefully people will keep adding to it as they discover new things.

Not a bad thread.

[jamesclancy]

hi i have an ibook g4 1.2 ghz and it died last thursday after reading up on the net i diagnosed the problem and inserted a shim and its fixed . What i want to know is how long this fix has lasted for other people ??

[wei]

Anyone have any idea does the PowerBook 12" 1.5Ghz suffer the same problem like the iBooks? I'm going to pick up a PowerBook that have video problem (scan lines and scrambled). Wonder if it can be fixed with same method.

[David Balkwill]

Hello all,

The 14inch G4 I repaired is still working fine, so well in fact that my wife has pinched it. So I now have a problem with a G3 dual usb 500mhz.

It got dropped. Nothing broke, but the screen is now displaying a flickering, distorted image, just like quite a few of the photos on here. So this would point to the GPU chip, but if I connect it to an external monitor the image is fine.

So I thought about the display cable, and changed that, but no difference. I'm not sure if the replacement one is good though.

Any ideas anyone. Pressing on chips on the board makes no difference, and neither does wiggling the cable and connector.

David

[Solid smudger]

Has anyone, in light of the findings of the Danish Consumer Complaints Commission - mediamac.comon.dk - Danish Consumer Complaints Board rules against Apple
had any contact with Apple regarding replacement of failling logic boards regardless of waranty and age of the machine?

[CleanEnergy]

Holy S***!!!!!!

I can't believe it worked! It actually worked!

I used a heat gun that I borrowed from work, I slowly heated the ATI chip over - maybe - 10 minutes (I had a piece of solder on the chip, so I stopped heating it about one minute after the solder melted), I let the iBook cool for about an hour, then I put it back together and turned it on. At first, nothing different happened and I was sure that my efforts had failed (as they usually do - at least for these sorts of things), but a few seconds after the start up chime... THE SCREEN CAME ON!!!

I couldn't believe it: it worked! After more than a year of sitting in a dark drawer, I can use my iBook again!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you....

Thank you!

[Guy Kuo]

Originally Posted by CleanEnergy 

....
I can't believe it worked! It actually worked!

Not always, but it very nice when it does work. I thought it a long shot when I first did it, but had nothing to lose. Mine STILL works four years later ..... and it was also first transparent iBook way back in its day.

[computer_b]

hi folks,,,,decided i was feed up with the wobbly bottom with all the cardboard rammed in to keep the pressure on the video chip.
so lit the butane soldering iron with the blower attachment on it,,,,stripped the ibook down and set a 2 pence piece on the chip..lit up the burner and let her lit on the 2p for 10 mins,,,,,,also said wat to ell,,i give a few bursts under the video chip,,,had a cpl of bits of solder on top of the chip...they melted so i knew there was plenty of heat at my disposal,, touch wood all is fine and no cardboard now

So if u have nothing to loose u never know u may have a lot to gain from just takin the chance

CB

Originally Posted by ghporter 

EEEKKKKKK! BGAs are BAD to mess with!!!! Of course you guys didn't have a lot to lose with computers that didn't work properly, were out of warranty, and were not covered by logic board replacement programs, but oh my!

Just the thought of a heat gun on a circuit board gives me chills. A PROPANE TORCH??? Holy COW!

[cjunod]

Hi riders of the flame

IBook A1007 G3 700 (14.1"). Blank screen. There is no visible backlight. With a strong lamp at the back: also nothing visible on the LCD. My oscilloscope shows no output at the inverter (but there are some voltages at some input pins). Think it should output something like a 90 volt squarewave. Could it be that the inverter has to be triggered by the graphic chip which is not working? I tried to connect a Samtron 71s LCD monitor thru the mini VGA to VGA-Adapter but to no avail. The Samtron goes blank as soon as I connect the loose adapter to its cable (allready before connecting the adapter itself to the IBook) and same when adapter + monitor connected. As I suspect that this monitor, with its 1280 x 1024 resolution, is not compatible with the adapter's internal wiring, so I cannot use the monitor to check the functioning of the chip. Also unsuccesfully tried an old VGA CRT-monitor.
Would you advise to replace the inverter first or go on with reflowing?

[seanc]

Go on with the reflowing. If the graphics chip isn't working then you'll get no display, no backlight and no output to an external monitor.

[cjunod]

My IBook G3 700Mhz is back to life

Using a Steinel 1810 hot air blower and following this temperature profile ...

Originally Posted by nitronick 

From page 1

... reflowing succeded at first try.
I took the logic print off, leaving the cooling plate on the CPU (1 screw to the board). Masked everything with aluminum foil around the GPU. Put a 0 - 300 centigrades mercury thermometer hovering above the GPU so it just touched the casing without applying pressure to it. Marked the 150, 180 and 220C with a marker on the thermometer. First practiced on an old piece of scrap board to get the feeling for distances and timing.
Have three questions:
1. The now working GPU's casing gets little over 40C at the open air. Is that OK?
2. I managed to peel the thermo foam off quite well before reflowing. With what can I stick it back or shoul I buy some new selfadhesive foam to replace.
3. Would you advise to built some copper cooling bridge on top as somebody suggested in a former post?
Thanks to all folks who participate to this thread and helped me save USD 995 for the repair here in Switzerland!

[Sparky9292]

Saw this on the blog comments:

http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/...20board-repair

You can toss your blowtorch back into the toolbox. Basically take a large coin (the british 2 pound one) and heat it up to 250 F in your oven. Remove it with plyers and set it on the GPU until it cools back to room temp.

That's it! Many people are posting successes with this method.

[Sparky9292]

Selling my iBook G3 900Mhz. I press under where the chip is, and the screen works fine. However, i'm an absolute clutz and don't even own a soldering iron.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110288761153

I'll remove this when it is sold.

[gto47]

Hey guys, i just attempted a reflow on a G3 900 and was unsuccessful. Now it won't even bong. When i hit the power button i hear the cd and hard drive spool but then it loses power. I'm guessing there's a short in the BGA now. I used a 1500 watt heat gun on high very briefly and did cover the board well with ceramic tiles and steel plating. I'm thinking the next step may be to send it in and have it reballed. Anybody else have this problem?

[seanc]

Originally Posted by gto47 

Hey guys, i just attempted a reflow on a G3 900 and was unsuccessful. Now it won't even bong. When i hit the power button i hear the cd and hard drive spool but then it loses power. I'm guessing there's a short in the BGA now. I used a 1500 watt heat gun on high very briefly and did cover the board well with ceramic tiles and steel plating. I'm thinking the next step may be to send it in and have it reballed. Anybody else have this problem?

I did that to mine. I nudged the BGA chip - fubared.

[gto47]

I just talked to firstphase on the phone. They quoted me $75 for a reball. Not bad considering it has to be reballed by hand.

[seanc]

Originally Posted by gto47 

I just talked to firstphase on the phone. They quoted me $75 for a reball. Not bad considering it has to be reballed by hand.

I'm surprised it's even recoverable now. I still have my logic board sat gathering dust in a tray on my window sill. I have to question whether it would be worth it though. If it's worth it to you, then that's fine.

[wayneb]

Well, I did my first G3 iBook GPU fix tonight, after reading all the posts in this thread and deciding on the best approach. The machine is now doing a software update and seems to be going fine. (Time will tell, I know...)

Here's what I did: The thought of a heat gun directing heat at the logic board, no matter how well covered, was a bit too daunting. Besides, I didn't have one....but...I did have access to a propane torch! I then machined a short bar of aluminium that fitted neatly over the GPU. It was about 10cm long. I drilled three downwards slanted holes into it, at the top, middle and bottom.

I placed a rolled up piece of electrical solder in each hole as a temperature gauge (thanks to whoever had the idea of using solder, but I didn't want it flowing on the logic board either).

I turned on the machine, to warm up the GPU, then off again. I then gradually heated the TOP of the aluminium bar, pointing the torch up at the bar, so heat never went near the board. I used gradual blasts of about 3 - 4 seconds at first, then increased the length of heat time. The top solder melted after about 6 minutes. The others followed quite quickly. I turned the machine on again and watched the display. It lit up and was a bit patchy for a while, so I kept turning it off and on to check.

After the solder at the bottom melted, I stopped heating. The display cleared soon after that and it booted up fully. I romoved the aluminium bar soon after that (it was still really hot) as I did not want to overdo the heat. I chose aluminium as it is lighter than steel (which might have flattened the solder under the GPU too much), was easy to machine, and conducts heat efficiently.

As for long term fix....I will wait and see! I have 3 other G3's waiting for the same fix...

[wayneb]

UPDATE: My first iBook is still going fine - it runs every time. I tried the second one, but have not had the same success with it. I had to heat it a lot longer to get any display, and I did get this, even after it cooled down, but when I turned it on the next day there was nothing.
I have heated this one up 4 times now and can get still get the display to work when heating, but not reliably after it cools.

I tried the third iBook today. I was suspicious of this one, as the GPU was already cleaned up without the foam pad or any remnants of it visible. Despite heating, I got no display whatsoever (it did chime) but after the second attempt at heating it no longer chimes. So, care is needed with some iBooks but others you can heat and heat and they will still chime....I guess that the third one had already had some sort of heat treatment and this had already affected some other components.

My last iBook is a 12" model, which still has the thermal pad on it. I got it almost disassembled but connecting everything up seemed to work fine, as it chimes. After reattaching the screen I will do the "treatment" and see how this goes. It appears to have a really good battery, so I am keen to get it going.

[wayneb]

The little iBook repair went just fine. I used less heat than previously - stopped heating when the solder melted in the first hole, because the residual heat is enough to melt the solder further down as well.
I got the second one (14")up to a full bright screen, but it won't boot from CD or boot into open firmware, so I think that part of the video circuitry is kaput, or I have fried something else. It's better to be conservative on the heat (and maybe have to do it again) than to do too much and get it past the point of no return....

[wayneb]

Looks like I killed this thread!

I am on iBook number 4 right now...using a heat gun with more consistent success.

[kolac]

Hi, I had the same problem, but I put an alu shirm on the top of GPU. It fix the problem just in part. ibook works fine, dont freez graphics, BUT black colours are displayd as red, not at all but in some areas. Do you think that technique with heat gun will fix my colour problem and don´t destroy my gpu ?

btw: in heating gpu with heat gun ... you put alu foil on whole of logic board and on gpu too ? or just arround gpu ?
I have seen here many different times of heating gpu after solder melted. So how long will I heat gpu after solder melted ? I will heat it with heat gun.

thanx, btw: sorry my english )

[wayneb]

There is a video on YouTube that shows the heat gun technique and gives the times needed for best results. There is NO guarantee that it won't fry your GPU though!!!!!

Try Googling for "iBook video chip repair on YouTube" and see what you get.

[wayneb]

Heh heh. I warped my first logic board yesterday....too much heat!!!!!!!!

[myalbino]

Hi to all,

I have been following this thread for quite a while and the real golden nuget has been the reflux temperature curve MacInEnterprise posted a while back.

I recently bought a cheap new kitchen oven which appears to have a metal probe in it which looks like it is some sort of thermocouple. I am starting to thing that the thermostat is reasonably accurate but I cannot measure beyond 130ºC with my IKEA thermometer to verify the thermostat. I think using the oven temperature dials and a timer could potentially work as a way to follow the reflux temperature curve and times. At any rate, I think the thermal shock from an oven would be *far* gentler than using either a tealight, a flame torch or a heat gun. Plus board warping which could lead to dry joints (yes?) would be greatly reduced in an oven.

The additional aim with my bugging everyone is to avoid buying either a flamethrower or a thermometer that can measure over 200ºC. I do not own these so I would have to buy them for this use only.

- Any advice from anyone in the board on using a conventional oven to reflux the board?
- Would +/-5, 10 or 20 ºC affect the reflux curve tremendously?
- Are there components on the underside of the board which may need special care in an oven?
- Do you guys think it is seriously stupid or does anyone think it can probably succeed?

Thanks!

PS. Help me and I promise to document the entire process with a video and pictures! This method could be alot easier for people

[myalbino]

Wow! Looks like Macfan55 had already successfully tried the method and has pictures to share. I will do too but also follow the reflux curve MacInEnterprise posted awhile back more closely.

I am tired but I can't hold back so off I go to dismantle the poor iBook!

[myalbino]

Hehe! I baked it but I think I left it in there for too long. Also put some fabric at the bottom, don't. The solder got discoloured by the smoke from the fabric, I think.

Also, a couple of tiny little capacitors fell out. You think they might be usefull for something? They are sooo small, promise! Will try turning it on tomorrow to see which bits are also not working anymore, boof!

[myalbino]

I think I will skip on the powering on... the plastic in the USB ports melted!! Looks like gum. I got the temperature to over 210º C, I think I got it to 230º and I thing I stayed there for too long.

Frack. Learning exercise.

[wayneb]

It sure is a learning exercise......
(I have 2 warped logic boards now to prove it!)

[HWgeek]

Most of the capacitors are for decoupling around the various IC's. (GPU,CPU, etc etc) a couple gone shouldn't be a major factor. But in the DC-DC power circuits, its a whole different issue. Could cause the board not to work. If you can mostly figure out which one fell from where, put them back in. The values will probably be .01uf and 0.1uf and those can be interchanged, without major issue. And without going into loads of ee design info.

Getting the BGA to stick better - Get some liquid Flux. The flux promotes the solder to flow correctly. Without it you are just oxidizing the solder further and "blobbing" it. With the flux you will get the solder to flow and attach back together correctly. big factor increase in reliability.

Also look around, you can actually re-ball BGA chips at home. There are some good YouTube video's about that. More daring, BUT if you have a non-video working board, a great learning exercise!!

BGA chips are just chips with pads on the bottom, with solder balls on them. The "trick" is that the balls are put on machine, very precisely giving excellent co-planarity over the ball grid. so when you make a pcb assembly all the balls touch and solder down well. Poorer co-planarity will cause light or cold/none solder joints causing failures. (hint-hint)

Here is an interesting link on DIY toaster oven reflow / soldering.
http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encod...6/oven_art.htm

Have fun!
HWgeek

[murphy's law]

Just wanted to say "thanks" to the OP for writing up this reflow technique. I used my el-cheapo heatgun to reflow the solder on a tiny SMT power regulator on a dead Toshiba MX-35. Worked like a charm!

[d0ugparker]

I have a non-working 1GHz 12" G4.

I've had the logic board out a dozen times
to try different things. Shims work some of
the times. I tried the heat gun twice.

When I press on the ATI chip, the iBook
works. When I let up, the screen freezes.
What I've noticed is that there's some
kind of clear epoxy around the ATI chip. I
think I need to break that connection to
allow the chip to settle once it reaches
solder-melt temperature, then re-epoxy.

I recently lost the video on my G3 12"
500MHz. I did the stupid "carry the laptop
around with my left hand" and stressed
the MB. Crap.

Dr Doug

[Mic-B]

Hey Guys,
Just signed up to thank everyone for posting their help on this -- I've reflowed a G3 GPU with 100% success! Because I found there to be a lack of photos of this process, I've documented my trial and posted it to my blog. For those of you considering this repair, the url is as follows:

Mic-B.Com - iBook G3 DIY GPU Reflow

There are also links to the tools I used, this forum thread, as well as links to the shim hack and geek technique article. I hope this helps somebody!

Thanks again to everyone who did this before me, I couldn't have felt more prepared for such a risky operation.
Mic-B

[doktoil makresh]

Hi guys !

I'm the happy owner of an Ibook 2 rev 2 (dual USB) G3 800. Since last month it worked perfectly. Now, sometimes, I can't get it powered on. I tried with a fully charged battery, with and withoutAC adaptor, but the iBook doesn't start. I tried the PMU reset, the first time it did the trick, and the computer worked again. But same day, the same problem appeared, and now I need to let it "sleep" for days to get it working 1hour (or 1 entire day sometimes).
Is it due to GPU problem ? If not, what should I do to get it alive again ?


Any help would be appreciated !

[merval]

I have attempted this about 3 times now, but I don't know that I am letting it sit long enough, the problem never seems to go away. I am going to try again today with a longer amount of time and put the heat gun closer. I am using an empty tea lite candle container to put my solder in so i can see how far along i am temperature wise.

i will update if it works.

Thanks for all the informative posts!

[merval]

So...I attempted it and it still didn't work. I am going to send it down to DT&T at the end of the month and get the logic board replaced.

[jethrogump]

Just wanted to say THANKS! to Guy Keo, and the rest of you who have added to this thread for the useful info I have learned from all of you. My past experience with any Mac equipment is very limited, just changing out hdd's and a LCD from old G4 iBook my son repetitively destroyed.
Last Saturday picked up a G3 14" iBook from a university auction for 40 USD, and 4 ac power adapters for 15 USD, got home and fired it up, boots normally, get about 15 seconds of crisp vid, then all the symptoms you are well acquainted with. Quick Google, and I stumble into Mr. Keo's post and read till I find the point of diagnostic differentiation, pressure applied to the chip produces clean vid.
$ 19.99 later, exit Lowe's with a 2 heat 750w paint stripper gun. Open the bottom, drape the surgical site w/- 4 sheets foil, and we're off! I ran the unit upside down, 5/60, LCD dangling over the edge, thumb pressure applied to chip, to pre-heat...before d'c-ing power, laying on foil, apply heat gun, 10 inches above to start ramping up the chip temp. Solder indicators melted as the gun distance decreased to 3 inches, then 60 seconds more...remove heat source, 2 minutes cooling, applied power, and was rewarded with crisp vid, and a screaming cooling fan! Reassemble and it fails on 3rd re-boot.
Now 5 am, sleep 3 hours, repeat proceedure, but go a full 2 minutes 30 seconds post solder indicator melt. Cool, re-assemble, re-boot, achieve desired outcome....have re-booted 20 times now, and run almost solidly for 24 hrs, with a jaunt to the local, where it was passed around for group inspection and play..Flawless!
Final observations--> from posts,still not sure if you blokes heated the 2 small rectangular components next to, and with the vid chip...I did.
And having destroyed the thermal foam, I used some silver paste atop the 3 components, then added a square cut from a beer coaster to the 'outside' of the bottom shield, to apply some slight pressure to the bottom shield, and keep it in contact with the chip/paste interface.
Anywho, THANK YOU to all of you, especially Guy, for the learning experience....heat guns, blow-torches, ovens, candles, alcohol....who woulda believed it if the proof was not, indeed, in the pudding? From a 5 year old post? If it lasts another day, then the ride was worth the cost of admission....
Instead of an, @ worst, harvested hdd and memory chips, here sits a functional G3, 14" iBook! With a 3 hr battery, btw!
"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus, his name is Guy!"
Cheers!
jg

[rogierw]

Originally Posted by Sparky9292 

Selling my iBook G3 900Mhz. I press under where the chip is, and the screen works fine. However, i'm an absolute clutz and don't even own a soldering iron.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110288761153

I'll remove this when it is sold.

The ad is gone, so why is this post still here?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by rogierw 

The ad is gone, so why is this post still here?

Maybe a better question is "did you register just to point this out?" Not that we aren't glad to have you join, (WELCOME!!!), just this is an odd way to use your first post.

Users cannot edit posts once a couple of minutes has passed from the original post. Perhaps the referenced poster did not know this when he said he'd remove the link. For everyone's information, you can simply PM your kindly and dedicated staff (mods, admins) and request edits whenever they're needed. We prevent "after the fact editing" to avoid a few nasty sorts of problems that can come with that sort of ability, but we don't have any problem with this sort of "clean up" editing.

[amazing]

I actually enjoy having this thread pop up from time to time--mainly because I've got a 14" G3 iBook sitting around, waiting for me to attempt this repair.

I've had it apart a couple of times in the past to upgrade the HD, and it finally failed with the classic video chip symptoms.

Anyway, every time the thread pops up, it nudges me closer to de-mothballing the iBook and trying it.

[Guy Kuo]

My original G3 "icebook" is STILL alive. It's pretty slow compared to modern machines, but it does make me grin when I see it run.

[wayneb]

Guy, that is classic! I bet you don't move it around much these days though....
I just did another G3 with a shim, but I don't want to try the heat gun as I am out of practice and will probably fry it!

[MrNatural]

Just another note to say I revived a G3 900 iBook today, thanks to all the great input in this thread.
Kawasaki Heat Gun and all your notes. I used a Merlot to give me the intestinal fortitude to proceed and go the extra minute past the melt of the solder indicator. I appreciate the "distilled" knowledgebase you've created.

What a thrill to see this cute 12" live again. Maxed the memory, installed 10.4, Office 2004, Firefox with AdBlock Plus, and getting ready to send it off Priority Mail as a present to a 10 year old niece, who I know will be thrilled!

WOW! is all I can say. (And hope it keeps working for her...)
Love these type of low tech fixes.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Guy Kuo 

My original G3 "icebook" is STILL alive. It's pretty slow compared to modern machines, but it does make me grin when I see it run.

The very first all white iBooks didn't actually suffer from this issue. Or if they did, its way less common.

[tibuff]

I bought a stack of non-working iBooks off Ebay and have been sprucing them up and reselling them for a tidy profit. I have a G3 (Opaque) that will boot up and run, but any pressure on the left side by the touch pad, or any moving of the machine, will cause the video to either go out or cause the machine to lock up.

I have a Dewalt heat gun I bought for about fifteen bucks, and I'll post my results.

I already tried (unsuccessfully) to repair a little HP laptop with a loose processor. I think, in retrospect, that I didn't get it hot enough. I also repaired a G4 that had the loose memory controller chip, and that beast still runs just fine. All I did was poke the tip of a soldering iron down on each of the traces and hold it there for five or ten seconds each.

One thing I'm doing on each of the iBooks I'm selling is putting a fan-control utility on them and setting it to kick the fan on at a much lower temp than the factory setting. It works great. The guy who wrote it now charges $10 for it, but I got it from someone who downloaded it when it was still free.

I'll report back when I'm done.