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sbc · May 20, 2004, 02:09 PM

Has trackpoint ever been included in the Powerbook series? I'm not a great fan of the trackpad alone. The feel is a bit irritating to me but I assume can be overcome with time.

tooki · May 20, 2004, 02:45 PM

No. The Mac Portable and early PowerBooks (1991-mid 1994) had trackballs. In mid-1994, the PowerBook 500 series replaced the trackball with a trackpad, and that's what we've had since.

You're the first person I've ever heard -- ever -- say that they actually prefer the trackpoint.

tooki

Maflynn · May 20, 2004, 03:02 PM

eewww,
a trackpoint hate it. Could never get use to it.

sbc · May 20, 2004, 03:11 PM

Mind you, I had use of it on the IBM Thinkpads. Not that I do not like trackpad, but I prefer the combination of both. I can move around with trackpoint quicker and then like to use track pad for scrolling and other actions.

rglenn · May 20, 2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
You're the first person I've ever heard -- ever -- say that they actually prefer the trackpoint.

Make that two.

cszar2001 · May 20, 2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by sbc:
Has trackpoint ever been included in the Powerbook series? I'm not a great fan of the trackpad alone. The feel is a bit irritating to me but I assume can be overcome with time.

Let`s see what happens after you`ve downloaded SideTrack and used it for a couple of days. I think your opinion will change quite dramatically.

Voch · May 20, 2004, 06:11 PM

My dad always liked the ThinkPad's trackpoint. I always referred to it as the "tracknipple."

Give me a trackpad any day. I'm the only one of my friends who actually plays games like Quake III with it...

Voch

rag on a muffin · May 20, 2004, 06:23 PM

just put a mini xbox controller on your computer, and say its an eraser head.

SplijinX · May 20, 2004, 06:31 PM

Trackpoints do come in handy - like when you are doing word processing and need to make a quick adjustment, you do not have to switch hand positions. However only the IBM's trackpoint is worth the effort to use, everything else out there is crap and probably why no one likes it.

rag on a muffin · May 20, 2004, 06:36 PM

its so limited. thats about the only reason i would ever use one, and probably not even for that. there was a reason apple invented the mouse to replace the joystick for their machine, it was for precise movements. the dot it just like a joystick, only less precise. im sure its good for some ossations, but imagine using it for photoshop.

rglenn · 07:59 PM

Originally posted by rag on a muffin:
its so limited. thats about the only reason i would ever use one, and probably not even for that. there was a reason apple invented the mouse to replace the joystick for their machine, it was for precise movements. the dot it just like a joystick, only less precise. im sure its good for some ossations, but imagine using it for photoshop.

Um... dude? Learn some history. Doug Englebart invented the mouse in the 1960s, not Apple.

EDIT: Thanks tooki - it is Engelbart, not Englebart

bcaslis · May 20, 2004, 07:10 PM

I hate trackpoints. Putting a trackpoint in a PowerBook would be one of the few things that would force me to move to a Wintel laptop!

tooki · 07:27 PM

Originally posted by rglenn:
Um... dude? Learn some history. Doug Englebart invented the mouse in the 1960s, not Apple.

Indeed.

Apple is often mistakenly attributed as its inventor simply because they shipped the first mass-market computer to rely on a mouse.

tooki

P.S. It's spelled Engelbart, not Englebart, despite how some sites have it spelled.

kdixey · May 20, 2004, 07:24 PM

trackpoint? ...eeeeew!

rag on a muffin · May 20, 2004, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
Indeed.

Apple is often mistakenly attributed as its inventor simply because they shipped the first mass-market computer to rely on a mouse.

tooki

P.S. It's spelled Engelbart, not Englebart, despite how some sites have it spelled.

lol. my history book is wrong!

bauhaus · May 21, 2004, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by rglenn:
Make that two.

Make that three. You only have to use an IBM trackpoint to understand why it is so great (and, btw, I can draw just fine in Photoshop with excellent precision--only my Wacom tablet is better. (IBM invented and patented their design implementation over 10 years ago so you'll never see the beauty of the IBM trackpoint in any of the knock-off trackpoint designs that Sony/Dell/Toshiba/White-Box companies use.)

IBM page on the TrackPoint

Michel_80 · May 21, 2004, 07:18 AM

The thing is if Apple ever included the trackpoint you KNOW that it will start to wonder around the screen after 6 months. Better not to add any problematic elements.

ibook_steve · May 21, 2004, 01:23 PM

Bauhaus,

I've used an IBM trackpoint, and I can say that if I wanted to control my computer with a nipple that feels like sandpaper (don't know if they're still like that, but I used a green sandpaper trackpoint on somebody's Thinkpad a few years ago) that overshoots where I want to go all the time, I'd rather use the old Atari joystick as a pointing device. The nipple is lame, lame, lame and I'd probably throw my laptop out a window if I was stuck using it all the time, especially since I would also have to be using Windows as well for that to happen.

Steve

bcaslis · May 21, 2004, 01:29 PM

Yes, I used an IBM trackpoint. It still sucks. Why would anyone want a pointing device that is normally put in the middle of the keyboard? Also as said aboveit either is too slow or goes too fast and overshots. To each their own, but if Apple did this I'd never buy a PowerBook again unless there was an option to not have the trackpoint.

Originally posted by bauhaus:
Make that three. You only have to use an IBM trackpoint to understand why it is so great (and, btw, I can draw just fine in Photoshop with excellent precision--only my Wacom tablet is better. (IBM invented and patented their design implementation over 10 years ago so you'll never see the beauty of the IBM trackpoint in any of the knock-off trackpoint designs that Sony/Dell/Toshiba/White-Box companies use.)

IBM page on the TrackPoint

rglenn · May 21, 2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by bcaslis:
Yes, I used an IBM trackpoint. It still sucks. Why would anyone want a pointing device that is normally put in the middle of the keyboard? Also as said aboveit either is too slow or goes too fast and overshots.

Um... you can adjust the acceleration on it. And the position in the middle of the keyboard happens to correspond with either index finger... which is near the middle of the keyboard when typing.

The greatest thing that can be said for it: I've never, EVER unintentionally moved the insertion point using a TrackPoint. A TouchPad, on the other hand...

rag on a muffin · May 21, 2004, 03:12 PM

this is sort of rude, but my friend calls it a clit, and whenever he sees anyone using one he tells them to go get a girlfriend..

KidKit · May 21, 2004, 07:32 PM

While I'm sure most people can get used to a input device as much as an input device should be designed ergonomically for human use, I really miss the trackpoint from my peecee days.

As Splijinx and bauhaus have pointed out, the trackpoint can actually speed things up tremedously while maintaining very high accuracy. It is very conveniently placed - I could switch between touch typing and moving the pointer in a flash. It is pressure sensitive, so the harder your push, the faster it moves... that actually helped me with getting used to Mac's trackpad and mouse acceleration when I first switched. If it was any indication, I could play command and conquer type games on my PC laptop using the trackpoint!

The trackpad is great, but I would think that having both the trackpad and the trackpoint on my PB would make it one schweet machine!

milhous · May 21, 2004, 08:07 PM

Don't mind the trackpoint myself, but 2 problems with it.

1. the cursor at times coasts off to a particular corner or direction without any user input.

2. put too much pressure on the lcd's screen while closed, congratulations you just placed a circular scratch on the screen where if if happens frequently leaves a nasty mark right in the middle.

Other than that, it's fine.

Link · May 21, 2004, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by bauhaus:
Make that three. You only have to use an IBM trackpoint to understand why it is so great (and, btw, I can draw just fine in Photoshop with excellent precision--only my Wacom tablet is better. (IBM invented and patented their design implementation over 10 years ago so you'll never see the beauty of the IBM trackpoint in any of the knock-off trackpoint designs that Sony/Dell/Toshiba/White-Box companies use.)

IBM page on the TrackPoint

Yep yep. I've never used anything better than the REAL trackpoint. Trackpads are cool but they show extremely visible wear wheras on a trackpoint you just replace the eraser.

The only thing that ever bugged me was when IBM started using the red caps by default... it looks ghetto as heck (then again toshiba used green for a long time) -- I prefer the black ones (which are harder to get hehe).

Really though, they are very damn accurate and having it as at least an additional option would be really cool. The only thing is (and I think apple knows what to do about this) is to not put the thing so high that it puts an indent in the screen

sbc · May 22, 2004, 07:56 PM

For a while I thought I was crazy for appreciating the Thinkpad's trackpoint. It took a level of adjustment in the beginning but I found it handy when coupled with a trackpad.

Dimitri · May 23, 2004, 01:13 AM

I've used both extensively and the trackpoint offers MUCH better precision once you get used to it. The trackpad offers a raw index finger after a lot of usage. In the end, though, I MUCH prefer a mouse over either, but I would prefer the CHOICE of either one over one or the other. At least IBM does this now but Apple should too. Choice is good.

rag on a muffin · May 23, 2004, 01:19 AM

apple wouldnt do this because its under copyright, and its very different from a mouse. a trackpad makes the same kind of movements.

KidKit · May 23, 2004, 01:31 AM

Oh well, the intricacies of proprietary laws. Apple could of course license it from IBM, but that would just be unthinkable to a fair number in this crowd wouldn't it?

Nevertheless, I think there are at least some of us who like the trackpoint technology, even though its not part of the wonderful world of Apple...