[Athens]

Can we continue to be as wasteful as we are now. We keep growing, demanding more and more energy and even now we can barely keep up. California, Eastern US and Ontario all are having energy crisis’s. One hurricane has taking out a good percentage of gas production and oil production, what does the next 50 years hold for us. Of all the countries in the world the US is probably the most vulnerable to energy shortages with Canada not being far behind. If we cant reduce our current levels, how can we expect any growth. I can see a very gloomy future. At maximum production levels I cant see it being enough to fuel our thrust for energy, which will mean higher prices for transportation, power, gas, industry. Higher prices which will cause the price of products and services to increase. I can see less money in peoples pockets and businesses going out of business. More unemployed people having a spiral effect on even more businesses closing. Our way of life is unsustainable, our economies will falter. Our cities are designed in such a way that we need our cars, our homes are designed in such a way that they lose to much energy. I feel it already is to late for us to prevent this. It would take every car being a hybrid, every home being 25% more efficient, more compact cities with strong public transportation systems to reduce our energy levels enough so that our growing populations can be sustained. Because I don't see this happening I see no future for us. And by the time these changes are realized it will be to late anyways. I personally think we have reached our peek and it is all going to be down hill from here.

[Athens]

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/p...clear-faq.html

Very good article on Nuclear power.

The US has 109 Nuclear power plants, that represent 20% of the energy out put. 550 Nuclear power plants should produce 100% of the energy allowing decrese use and dependance on Oil.

[PB2K]

i think the relationship with china and india will gradually improve, so there will be a place for the USA anyhow. The EU on the other hand, will become a hole.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by PB2K

i think the relationship with china and india will gradually improve, so there will be a place for the USA anyhow. The EU on the other hand, will become a hole.

I don't understand?

[Randman]

I think a history book would illustrate how silly such fatalistic views truly are.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Randman

I think a history book would illustrate how silly such fatalistic views truly are.

Read up about Easter Island.

[Randman]

Easter Island? WTF? Dude, lay off the crack pipe.

[Athens]

no you lay off the crack pipe, wtf the shitty attitude?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by PB2K

The EU on the other hand, will become a hole.

Become?

Oh, and Athens, you need to get a puppy or something dude. All this worrying about saving the planet is misplaced - a puppy might serve as something actually worth worrying about.

[Athens]

Hardly, I have a good 50 years left in my life, and don't even want to think of what kind of world this will be for my future kids. Its easy to see how fragile we are. Just look at how bad things got in NO after the hurricane. Some people reverted to Animals.

[baw]

Originally Posted by Randman

Easter Island? WTF? Dude, lay off the crack pipe.

Yeah, what do giant stone heads have to do with this?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Athens

Its easy to see how fragile we are.

Everything has always been fragile. No need to worry about it.

Originally Posted by Athens

Just look at how bad things got in NO after the hurricane. Some people reverted to Animals.

NO = Democrat-biased area.
Democrat-biased area = light on criminals & ineffectual local leadership.
Light on criminals = drug problem in area.
Drug problem + natural disaster + ineffectual local leadership = breakdown in society.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by baw

Yeah, what do giant stone heads have to do with this?

Then check the history and you will discover the main reason the people who built the stone heads died out was because they used up all the Islands resources.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Athens

Then check the history and you will discover the main reason the people who built the stone heads died out was because they used up all the Islands resources.

when you live on a tiny island out in the middle of nowhere with no modern means of travel, agriculture, or industry, it is no shocker that they used up everything. If I lock myself in a closet with no resupply, I will eventually die. This isn't news to me.

[himself]

Originally Posted by Doofy

NO = Democrat-biased area.
Democrat-biased area = light on criminals & ineffectual local leadership.
Light on criminals = drug problem in area.
Drug problem + natural disaster + ineffectual local leadership = breakdown in society.

Okay, what do drugs have to do with it? Or N.O. being largely Democratic? Totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter who you are, how much you earn or how educated you are, whether you are Republicrat or Democrican -- if you are sequestered with tens of thousands of other people for 3+ days in 90+ degree heat with little or no food or water or medicine, and with no way of knowing whether anyone was coming for you or not, honestly tell me that you will be able to stay level-headed and lucid. Most anyone would start to lose hope and become more afraid and very angry.

But this thread is not about the Katrina disaster... Athens' question is very valid. What's wrong with asking the question about what could go wrong in the future and planning for that? Strange how this parallels with the Katrina disaster, since the top local and federal officials and emergency recovery specialists apparently weren't asking themselves the right questions to prepare for a disaster of this magnitude. The least we could do is act like we give a shıt about the future of our society and plan for it's survival, since nothing in this world is a given.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

i no longer care

i dont have kids and i hope it holds u p until i die and then i hope everything falls apart and anials claim this earth as arevenge against humanity. (and yes, badgers will be alive)

[Nodnarb]

Tragedy of the Commons

Long article but well worth the read.

[dreilly1]

Originally Posted by Athens

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/p...clear-faq.html

Very good article on Nuclear power.

The US has 109 Nuclear power plants, that represent 20% of the energy out put. 550 Nuclear power plants should produce 100% of the energy allowing decrese use and dependance on Oil.

Modern engineering practices (and a central place to store the nuclear waste until it is safe) will make Nuclear Power safer in the long run than having to effect a "regime change" every few years to protect our oil supply.

[Randman]

My attitude is of humour. Look at the energy crisis in the 1970s in the US? That's when Carter enacted the 55-mph speed limit. Look at how much safer nuclear power is these days.

In the big picture, this is a slight aberration, at best.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by himself

Okay, what do drugs have to do with it? Or N.O. being largely Democratic? Totally irrelevant.

Nope. It's directly relevant to the magnitude of the social breakdown in NO. You let a bunch of criminals stay out of prison via the use of community punishments (etc.) during normal everyday conditions and guess what? When a crisis happens those criminals will revert to type.

It's also directly relevant to how the city/county/state/country is able to handle such events as the population votes in their favourite politically-compatible candidate. Now, I've been in local government meetings and I've not yet met any left-leaning councillor/mp who can think past breakfast tomorrow. Joined-up, forward-thinking planning is not, IMHO, a feature of left-leaning politicians. The effectiveness of the people you vote directly relates your vote to the ability of the community to handle events.

Originally Posted by himself

It doesn't matter who you are, how much you earn or how educated you are, whether you are Republicrat or Democrican -- if you are sequestered with tens of thousands of other people for 3+ days in 90+ degree heat with little or no food or water or medicine, and with no way of knowing whether anyone was coming for you or not, honestly tell me that you will be able to stay level-headed and lucid. Most anyone would start to lose hope and become more afraid and very angry.

I don't know of a single right-leaning person who would be panicking. Straight up.

Originally Posted by himself

But this thread is not about the Katrina disaster... Athens' question is very valid. What's wrong with asking the question about what could go wrong in the future and planning for that?

That's not what Athens was asking though, was it? Nothing wrong with planning but it seemed like Athens is "worrying without a plan", i.e. worrying for the sake of it.

[himself]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. It's directly relevant to the magnitude of the social breakdown in NO. You let a bunch of criminals stay out of prison via the use of community punishments (etc.) during normal everyday conditions and guess what? When a crisis happens those criminals will revert to type.

I can agree with that much, but again, where do drugs specifically become a factor? A criminal of any type is, by definition, an opportunist, and will seize on any opening that is to their advantage (no reversion necessary). Disasters such as this are perfect for them. A well-prepared leadership would have had a plan for identifying parolees and other monitored criminals and gathering them up, guarded and separate from the general law abiding population. But even without criminals in the mix, social breakdown would have only been postponed. But I don't see drugs as a prime factor.

It's also directly relevant to how the city/county/state/country is able to handle such events as the population votes in their favourite politically-compatible candidate. Now, I've been in local government meetings and I've not yet met any left-leaning councillor/mp who can think past breakfast tomorrow. Joined-up, forward-thinking planning is not, IMHO, a feature of left-leaning politicians. The effectiveness of the people you vote directly relates your vote to the ability of the community to handle events.

That is such a broad, misguided generalization and mis-characterization that I shouldn't even respond to it. however...

You're only seeing what is convenient for you to see. I also suspect that you don't reside here in the "States." On every side of the political spectrum, you have competent and incompetent figures. This Katrina fiasco outlines that perfectly. Local elected officials failed (Dems). Federal officials (Repubs, elected and appointed) failed. I'm sorry, but the right-wing (I hate these political designations) can't deflect their share of the blame as you would like because of their proximity to the problem -- if they knew better and had a better plan, I'm sure they would have stepped up and offered the proper direction in this situation (they would have to offer it eventually, anyway), and then taken all of the credit for it. It didn't happen. In fact, both sides continue to get it wrong to this day. As another case in point, you can't tell me with a straight face that this War on Terror® and the Iraq invasion was "joined-up, forward-thinking," and well planned. Just the opposite. It could even be argued that this poorly planned war led to a redirection of the resources that would have help improve the response to Katrina. Joined-up, forward-thinking this is not.

I don't know of a single right-leaning person who would be panicking. Straight up.

Then you don't know these people as well as you would think. Or, you should to look into sociology a bit more. It really doesn't matter what your background is, the moment you are forced into a situation you are not prepared for, and those support systems you rely on are not there, you will try to make do with what is available, though it may be finite. But knowing that this will soon run out, with no back-up or relief on the way that you know of, one of two things will set in; panic, or acceptance at the realization that the situation is hopeless. Consider the lack of food and water in 90º+ F heat for days on end, and dementia will begin to set in (next you'll tell me that the "right-leaning" have a genetic resistance to the effects of starvation and dehydration). To imply that there is some inherent difference between how "right-leaning" and "left-leaning" people will handle these situations is yet another baseless generalization. Heck, I know of red-neck hick confederates and tree-hugging environmentalists who would be able to survive many a natural disaster, and their knowledge has nothing to do with their political affiliation.

That's not what Athens was asking though, was it? Nothing wrong with planning but it seemed like Athens is "worrying without a plan", i.e. worrying for the sake of it.

That is exactly what he was asking. He posed the question, presented some of the scenarios, and opened the floor to suggestions for solutions. It was pretty clear for me.

[Kerrigan]

We can but hope that McDonalds doesn't start another "free french fries for a week" promotion like it did several years back. The chaos that followed was enough to bring down western civilization.

[james9490]

Don't worry, USA will be just fine so long as we have Microsoft and Windows. The whole world uses Windows OS, and they will keep paying us indirectly via tax revenue from Microsoft and millions of Microsoft-related businesses. It's called residual income, America's got it, and we will continue to thrive.

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

North America? Of course. It's current governments and societies? No idea.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by himself

I can agree with that much, but again, where do drugs specifically become a factor?

NO was known to have a huge drug problem. With that in mind, how do you think the junkies are currently getting their fix? That's right, they're not - so we have a large bunch of junkies wandering around trying to keep themselves from going cold turkey and minimal law enforcement agencies to keep them in check.

Originally Posted by himself

You're only seeing what is convenient for you to see.

Incorrect. I'm entirely non-partisan and look at everything objectively.

Originally Posted by himself

I also suspect that you don't reside here in the "States."

Correct.

Originally Posted by himself

On every side of the political spectrum, you have competent and incompetent figures.

This is true.
However - what I stated is generally true when the two factions are taken as a whole. Of course there'll be right wingers who cry like babies and left wingers who step up to the plate during such events, but these, IMHO, are the exception.

Originally Posted by himself

As another case in point, you can't tell me with a straight face that this War on Terror® and the Iraq invasion was "joined-up, forward-thinking," and well planned. Just the opposite. It could even be argued that this poorly planned war led to a redirection of the resources that would have help improve the response to Katrina. Joined-up, forward-thinking this is not.

The problem here is that the forces involved were limited in their actions by a large portion of the US and UK electorate. It's hard to operate in a war zone if the folks back home are limiting your options.
But yes, while the "war" was operated flawlessly, the "peace" was severely badly planned.

Originally Posted by himself

Then you don't know these people as well as you would think. Or, you should to look into sociology a bit more. It really doesn't matter what your background is, the moment you are forced into a situation you are not prepared for, and those support systems you rely on are not there, you will try to make do with what is available, though it may be finite. But knowing that this will soon run out, with no back-up or relief on the way that you know of, one of two things will set in; panic, or acceptance at the realization that the situation is hopeless. Consider the lack of food and water in 90º+ F heat for days on end, and dementia will begin to set in (next you'll tell me that the "right-leaning" have a genetic resistance to the effects of starvation and dehydration). To imply that there is some inherent difference between how "right-leaning" and "left-leaning" people will handle these situations is yet another baseless generalization.

That was an observation from personal experience. Here, at least, lefties whine, righties do. Goes to the very nature of the political divide - lefties expect government to help, righties expect to have to fend for themselves. Isn't this the very core of the left/right belief systems?

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

when you live on a tiny island out in the middle of nowhere with no modern means of travel, agriculture, or industry, it is no shocker that they used up everything. If I lock myself in a closet with no resupply, I will eventually die. This isn't news to me.

Think of yourself in a big spherical closet with a lot of people then. Don't you think it'd be a good idea to conserve what you have available?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by james9490

Don't worry, USA will be just fine so long as we have Microsoft and Windows. The whole world uses Windows OS, and they will keep paying us indirectly via tax revenue from Microsoft and millions of Microsoft-related businesses. It's called residual income, America's got it, and we will continue to thrive.

Woah, looky there on that PC in my office. A old pirate copy of Windows! Who'd have thought it? I hope Microsoft don't explode or anything so we can no longer get old pirate copies of their product.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by james9490

Don't worry, USA will be just fine so long as we have Microsoft and Windows. The whole world uses Windows OS, and they will keep paying us indirectly via tax revenue from Microsoft and millions of Microsoft-related businesses. It's called residual income, America's got it, and we will continue to thrive.

[Athens]

what happens when we just cant produce enough oil to meet demand which we are getting closer and closer to. More cars, more industry, more power. At some point we will reach max ability to produce, refine oil. This results in price increases, price increases means inflation, inflation with the price increases means the economy suffers. And as the demand from the world increases like from China for example we will be in a real sorry position.

[dreilly1]

Originally Posted by Athens

what happens when we just cant produce enough oil to meet demand which we are getting closer and closer to. More cars, more industry, more power. At some point we will reach max ability to produce, refine oil. This results in price increases, price increases means inflation, inflation with the price increases means the economy suffers. And as the demand from the world increases like from China for example we will be in a real sorry position.

There are other alternatives to oil for generating power. The problem is that, historically, there haven't been any other alternatives that are cheaper. Especially since there are some places (like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela) where it is so cheap to pump oil that they can essentially undercut the rest of the oil market, much less the market for alternative fuels.

As crude oil gets more expensive, these alternative sources become cost-effective, and eventually they'll replace enough of the demand for oil to balance supply and demand in the oil market again. The economy will suffer, sure, since energy in general will be more expensive, but at least someone will be willing to sell you all the energy you want as long as you can afford it.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Athens

Hardly, I have a good 50 years left in my life, and don't even want to think of what kind of world this will be for my future kids. Its easy to see how fragile we are. Just look at how bad things got in NO after the hurricane. Some people reverted to Animals.

You want my advice ? Well you're going to get it anyhow.

Chill out, relax. One canadian named Athens is not going to save the planet. Disasters are going to happen 10 years from now, 50 years from now and 100 years from now and so on. That's life. People die and people will continue to die. Terrible things will happen every once in awhile.

100 years from now, long after you and I are gone, new tinfoilhat wearing extremists will have taken your place and they'll be posting away on forums revealing their paranoia for all to see.

[budster101]

Ca$h, er, I mean Athens, don't be that guy.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

NO = Democrat-biased area.
Democrat-biased area = light on criminals & ineffectual local leadership.
Light on criminals = drug problem in area.
Drug problem + natural disaster + ineffectual local leadership = breakdown in society.

I guess it's nice to think everything is so simple. I can see that handle isn't just a clever name, but somewhat prophetical.

I want you to think about why a very large majority of minority registered voters are Democrats. Do you think it's because they have any faith in the Republican party to do what's best for them?

Since we're dealing with stereotypes, I'll let you know what my personal bias tells me what would have happened if it were Republican run:

A strong social and economic class system would be developed. All the white people would live in the well protected, higher ground. All the "other" people would live in the lower areas where they'll make up the majority of the labor force with the white people providing service based businesses.

When the hurricane hits, the exact same scenario will play out because those people get sh*tted on no matter who's running the state.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

i no longer care

i dont have kids and i hope it holds u p until i die and then i hope everything falls apart and anials claim this earth as arevenge against humanity. (and yes, badgers will be alive)

To survive, we may develop relations with animals.

Boy are we going to pay...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I guess it's nice to think everything is so simple. I can see that handle isn't just a clever name, but somewhat prophetical.

I want you to think about why a very large majority of minority registered voters are Democrats. Do you think it's because they have any faith in the Republican party to do what's best for them?

When the hurricane hits, the exact same scenario will play out because those people get sh*tted on no matter who's running the state.

You mean black people?

Surely you didn't mean for your reply to be that simple - it's all whitey's fault - did you?

[im_noahselby]

I think society is changing and will continue to change and adopt healthier lifestyles. It is this change that will sustain us for future generations to come. Attitudes are also changing.

Athens is right that if we continue to use up our fossil fuels at the rate we doing now and do nothing else, we will be doomed - it would be the darkest depression, in my eyes. But I don't think we are that stupid and we will adopt changes along the way to make things more sustainable for future generations.

Hydro and wind power are excellent choices. The ocean is so vast, we can afford to dedicate large chunks of it for wind power production. Fusion power is promising, as scientists continue to work on it.

Nuclear power is aboslutely the wrong answer, in my oppinion.

Noah

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby

Hydro and wind power are excellent choices. The ocean is so vast, we can afford to dedicate large chunks of it for wind power production.

Hmmm... Wind power decimates bird populations, so it's not as good as it's made out to be.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby

Nuclear power is aboslutely the wrong answer, in my oppinion.

You should tell that to the French, the world's largest nuclear power generator on a per capita basis.

Currently, about 77% of France's electricity comes from the country's 58 nuclear reactors.

[im_noahselby]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Hmmm... Wind power decimates bird populations, so it's not as good as it's made out to be.

Regardless, I think it is the best thing we have going for us, right now.

Noah

[im_noahselby]

Originally Posted by PacHead

You should tell that to the French, the world's largest nuclear power generator on a per capita basis.

Currently, about 77% of France's electricity comes from the country's 58 nuclear reactors.

I believe Japan also relies heavily on Nuclear energy.

The way I see it, France has 58 monstrous deadly targets and in todays times I'm thankful I don't live there.

Noah

[Doofy]

How about all new houses must by law have solar panels in their roofs? Wouldn't that go a long way towards solving the "energy problems"? Of course, solar panels are expensive at the moment - but if all new houses were required to have them then surely demand would drive cost down?

[Link]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby

I believe Japan also relies heavily on Nuclear energy.

The way I see it, France has 58 monstrous deadly targets and in todays times I'm thankful I don't live there.

Noah

And yet we have twice that, besides what do you call a monstrous oil tank and the plant's output (POLLUTION) into the air? Last I checked it wasn't pretty or flower-like.

Nuclear plants require recycling/storage.. and tons of it. Recycling the rods could be the best answer, but guess what -- oil requires REFINERIES. and nobody ever wants to live by those.

[Rolling Bones]

The USA will be an Islamic Republic.

[himself]

Originally Posted by Doofy

NO was known to have a huge drug problem. With that in mind, how do you think the junkies are currently getting their fix? That's right, they're not - so we have a large bunch of junkies wandering around trying to keep themselves from going cold turkey and minimal law enforcement agencies to keep them in check.

The crime would still be there if are criminals in the mix, regardless of whether drugs are involved or not. Drugs are not a prime factor. Repeat that to yourself a few times. It seems to me that your typical conservative bias is causing you to rely on stereotypes to draw your conclusions instead of facts.

However - what I stated is generally true when the two factions are taken as a whole. Of course there'll be right wingers who cry like babies and left wingers who step up to the plate during such events, but these, IMHO, are the exception.

Spare me. Liberals and conservatives alike whine far too much to be palatable. Maybe you should export your brand of "right-leaners" here. Maybe things will quiet down a bit.

The problem here is that the forces involved were limited in their actions by a large portion of the US and UK electorate. It's hard to operate in a war zone if the folks back home are limiting your options.
But yes, while the "war" was operated flawlessly, the "peace" was severely badly planned.

I don't know about the UK, but Bush wasn't going to limit his actions regardless of what electorate felt. As far as he believed, he had a mandate (which he never had).

That was an observation from personal experience. Here, at least, lefties whine, righties do. Goes to the very nature of the political divide - lefties expect government to help, righties expect to have to fend for themselves. Isn't this the very core of the left/right belief systems?

Please. If this is true, then you must be living in a Conservative Utopia®. I assume the lefties wouldn't hold any elected positions if only the righties ever got anything done. Your personal observation does not equate to truth.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by PacHead

You want my advice ? Well you're going to get it anyhow.

Chill out, relax. One canadian named Athens is not going to save the planet. Disasters are going to happen 10 years from now, 50 years from now and 100 years from now and so on. That's life. People die and people will continue to die. Terrible things will happen every once in awhile.

100 years from now, long after you and I are gone, new tinfoilhat wearing extremists will have taken your place and they'll be posting away on forums revealing their paranoia for all to see.

We don't need a disaster to be at max capacity. What's making this disaster manageable is the fact many countries in the world are release reserves. Before the disaster we already had supply problems. What's to come in 5 years, 6.00 a gallon?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby

I believe Japan also relies heavily on Nuclear energy.

The way I see it, France has 58 monstrous deadly targets and in todays times I'm thankful I don't live there.

Noah

Not all Nuclear reactors are deadly and as a industry with all the safe guards in place its actually very safe. Canada's Candu reactors are some of best reactors in the world. A few key facts about them.

CANDU-specific features and advantages

Use of natural uranium as a fuel
CANDU is the most efficient of all reactors in using uranium: it uses about 15% less uranium than a pressurized water reactor for each megawatt of electricity produced

Use of natural uranium widens the source of supply and makes fuel fabrication easier. Most countries can manufacture the relatively inexpensive fuel

There is no need for uranium enrichment facility

Fuel reprocessing is not needed, so costs, facilities and waste disposal associated with reprocessing are avoided

CANDU reactors can be fuelled with a number of other low-fissile content fuels, including spent fuel from light water reactors. This reduces dependency on uranium in the event of future supply shortages and price increases

Use of heavy water as a moderator

Heavy water (deuterium oxide) is highly efficient because of its low neutron absorption and affords the highest neutron economy of all commercial reactor systems. As a result chain reaction in the reactor is possible with natural uranium fuel

Heavy water used in CANDU reactors is readily available. It can be produced locally, using proven technology. Heavy water lasts beyond the life of the plant and can be re-used

CANDU reactor core design

Reactor core comprising small diameter fuel channels rather that one large pressure vessel
Allows on-power refueling - extremely high capability factors are possible

The moveable fuel bundles in the pressure tubes allow maximum burn-up of all the fuel in the reactor core

Extends life expectancy of the reactor because major core components like fuel channels are accessible for repairs when needed.

Argentina and South Korea, Romania, Pakistan, India and China use Candu Reactors

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Athens

Then check the history and you will discover the main reason the people who built the stone heads died out was because they used up all the Islands resources.

Easter Island has no history. Only guesswork.

cheers

W-Y

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Athens

What's to come in 5 years, 6.00 a gallon?

Don't worry about it. $6 per gallon is not a problem - the economy will adapt. We're currently over $6 and we're not yet running around in furs clubbing each other over the head (OK, OK, so we do actually club each other over the head, but only on Friday nights when we're drunk).

[Randman]

Check your FUD at the door.

You think things are bad? The Cold war was worse. Disco was worse. The end of The Far Side was worse. Vietnam was worse. The civil rights fight was worse. World War II was worse. The depression was worse. Etc.

Quit watching the nightly news and you'll gain a little perspective on things.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Randman

Check your FUD at the door.

You think things are bad? The Cold war was worse. Disco was worse. The end of The Far Side was worse. Vietnam was worse. The civil rights fight was worse. World War II was worse. The depression was worse. Etc.

Quit watching the nightly news and you'll gain a little perspective on things.

AMEN!