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Kevin · Oct 19, 2007, 09:40 AM

So what part of it is broke? So far I can get it to work in my browser.
[edit] n/m I see you can't view 3D without downloading a .exe application...

ANd that still doesn't explain why MS is blocking Safari.

TETENAL · Oct 19, 2007, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tell that to them. They say they are blocked.

No they did not say that.

Originally Posted by ghporter

I just got Safari to at least try to load and render the right page using the Windows MSIE 6.0 user agent. It's still trying to load the map...which may have something to do with the format the map is in. It IS trying to load the CORRECT URL.

Emphasis is ghporter's even. It takes an enormous amount if ignorance to get him wrong. And I was the second one who tried it with changing user agent. I know I wasn't blocked and so did you since I posted a screenshot!

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Granted, you can get to the page, but it just stalls forever while trying to load the maps and is thus not generally very useful.

This is CharlesS (my emphasis this time) saying it is not being blocked with a changed user agent.

I don't disbelieve you when you say it's not working for you, but to continue to claim that it's not possible to get this page served with a changed user agent when you know everybody else got it to work is dishonest. Period.

Kevin · 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

No they did not say that.

"We now seem to be failing some kind of browser sniffing"

What does failing mean in context? It means that the browser is failing to go to, or load said page. When a browser cannot load said page that means it's blocked. And it is. You have to spoof the user agent and then enter it in in a CERTAIN WAY to get i work.

Not that I am going to get into a semantics argument with you. So if you start one, I shall ignore it rightfully.

Emphasis is ghporter's even. It takes an enormous amount if ignorance to get him wrong. And I was the second one who tried it with changing user agent.

#1. I wasn't denying that you and gh could get on.
#2. You two weren't the first to try to change your user agent and go to that page.

Originally Posted by zro

H
If it makes any difference, the real page never loads using browser spoofing.

I know I wasn't blocked and so did you since I posted a screenshot!

That wasn't a screenshot of my computer for one. For two that was a screenshot of the page before it was being blocked. See, this is what I mean about you not paying attention to my posts. Just making wild accusations.

This is CharlesS (my emphasis this time) saying it is not being blocked with a changed user agent.

DId you read my last post at all? Any of it?

I don't disbelieve you when you say it's not working for you,

Then why did you say I was lying about it not working for me? That I knew better but was saying it anyhow?

but to continue to claim that it's not possible to get this page served with a changed user agent

I never said that. I said some people were having problems getting there. And if you look at the site I posted, ALL updates and bug fixes STOPPED right after said block MS made. Why was it stopped then? I never once denied that the page wouldn't work. As there have been screenshots of it. And just because I coudln't get there the way I was trying (which was legit) doesn't mean I was saying others could not. In other words, I wasn't lying then either.

when you know everybody else got it to work is dishonest. Period.

Everyone else didn't get it to work. Read the thread.

Originally Posted by zro

If it makes any difference, the real page never loads using browser spoofing.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Well, if it won't work with a User Agent spoof, then I don't know what kind of tricks they are pulling...

Not that it matters. I explained what happened in my last post. Please go back and read it.

http://forums.macnn.com/82/applicati...3/#post3509098

Why certain people could get it to work, and certain people could not. You replied to me like I didn't even post said post. Why?

This is about software, and you decided to make it personal by attacking my character.

And now I have proven what the deal was, that I was not lying, you are still doing it.

I mean I didn't expect an apology. (hardly anyone does it in here when they should) But come on TET.

CharlesS · Oct 19, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Charles, I think you for at least telling TENTENEL what is really going on, but you didn't need to make that troll now did you? really?

Just pointing out a little pot-kettle-black there, since calling people dishonest when you disagree with them seems to be a standard part of your MO.

Anyway, I can get past the redirect by changing the user agent - it's just that the map doesn't work once I get there.

Kevin · Oct 19, 2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Just pointing out a little pot-kettle-black there, since calling people dishonest when you disagree with them seems to be a standard part of your MO.

I have never called anyone dishonest just because they didn't agree with me.

Anyway, I can get past the redirect by changing the user agent - it's just that the map doesn't work once I get there.

The map works when I get there, but the 3D part doesn't.It takes me to a place to download some .exe file.

I'll check it out in firefox and see if the 3D part works there.

Kevin · Oct 19, 2007, 12:41 PM

Doesn't work in FireFox either

"Virtual Earth 3D is currently not supported for your browser. For a list of supported browsers, see Help."

Art Vandelay · Oct 19, 2007, 01:09 PM

Did anyone consider that Microsoft might be making changes as this is being argued in this thread and that could account for the changes in behavior that has been reported?

Within the short time span of this thread, I was unable to load the site at all even with user agent spoofing. Later, I was able to load the page with user agent spoofing but it didn't work. It just sat there trying to load forever. Today, I tried it again with user agent spoofing and it works pretty well now. This is all with the same version of Safari 3 beta.

So, it is quite conceivable that MS was blocking all Safari access so the WebKit engineers didn't waste their time trying to support a moving target. From the looks of it, MS made their own changes to get it to work with Safari. Did they communicate this to Apple? Who knows? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. If they did, someone didn't bother to update the bug reports. If they didn't, shame on them for not communicating their intentions.

CharlesS · Oct 19, 2007, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

The map works when I get there, but the 3D part doesn't.It takes me to a place to download some .exe file.

What the hey? You're right, I just tried it, and it is working in Safari now if I change the user agent to Firefox. Huh. Previously, it wasn't.

The interface has also changed somewhat from what it was when I played with it in Firefox the other week. Apparently something has changed server-side. I guess we can rule out Safari being at fault for the problems that were formerly occurring.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Doesn't work in FireFox either

The site works fine in Firefox, and has since this thread started. It's just the 3D thing that doesn't work (probably using ActiveX).

edit: looks like I got beaten to it by Art Vandelay. Oh well.

Kevin · 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Did anyone consider that Microsoft might be making changes as this is being argued in this thread and that could account for the changes in behavior that has been reported?

This indeed could be a factor.

Within the short time span of this thread, I was unable to load the site at all even with user agent spoofing. Later, I was able to load the page with user agent spoofing but it didn't work. It just sat there trying to load forever. Today, I tried it again with user agent spoofing and it works pretty well now. This is all with the same version of Safari 3 beta.

Like I said, something weird was going on. (3 pages ago)

So, it is quite conceivable that MS was blocking all Safari access so the WebKit engineers didn't waste their time trying to support a moving target.

This could very be likely. I haven't heard back from MS.

From the looks of it, MS made their own changes to get it to work with Safari. Did they communicate this to Apple? Who knows? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. If they did, someone didn't bother to update the bug reports. If they didn't, shame on them for not communicating their intentions.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The site works fine in Firefox, and has since this thread started. It's just the 3D thing that doesn't work (probably using ActiveX).

Yeah I said

The map works when I get there, but the 3D part doesn't.It takes me to a place to download some .exe file.

I'll check it out in firefox and see if the 3D part works there.

Then after went to check it out I said

Doesn't work in FireFox either

"Virtual Earth 3D is currently not supported for your browser. For a list of supported browsers, see Help."

I was just referring to virtual earth. As I got the page to load in Safari and Firefox both. Just not the 3D part.

So it looks as if MS is making their product work correctly in Safari now. I applaud them for making such effort.

Reggie Fowler · Oct 21, 2007, 08:18 AM

just tried to watch a video on MSNBC and got rejected in Safari. I believe the message said, "Your browser or operating system is not supported. If you would like to continue anyway, click the button below. We recommend using: FireFox2 on MacOS X 10.4 Tiger".

So here is another example of how Microsoft is blocking Safari.

ghporter · Oct 21, 2007, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler

just tried to watch a video on MSNBC and got rejected in Safari. I believe the message said, "Your browser or operating system is not supported. If you would like to continue anyway, click the button below. We recommend using: FireFox2 on MacOS X 10.4 Tiger".

So here is another example of how Microsoft is blocking Safari.

This may seem like nit-picking, but MSNBC not providing a media format that works with Safari is just "not supporting Safari." Redirecting requests where the browser is identified as Safari to a nonfunctional page is blocking. The first is a lack of action on MS's part, while the second is active. Lazy versus mean? Something like that.

Kevin · Oct 21, 2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler

just tried to watch a video on MSNBC

Got a ink?

TETENAL · Oct 22, 2007, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

"We now seem to be failing some kind of browser sniffing"

What does failing mean in context? It means that the browser is failing to go to, or load said page. When a browser cannot load said page that means it's blocked. And it is.

That is a quote from the WebKit bugreport. Nowhere does it say that they can't get on with changing the user agent string.

You have to spoof the user agent and then enter it in in a CERTAIN WAY to get i work.

And you think Apple's developers can't do this?

#1. I wasn't denying that you and gh could get on.

You were denying that Apple's developers can get on. You claimed that that is the reason they could not fix any outstanding bug. This is a silly claim when even ghporter and I can get on.

That wasn't a screenshot of my computer for one.

That was a screenshot of my computer.

For two that was a screenshot of the page before it was being blocked.

No, I made that screenshot during this discussion.

See, this is what I mean about you not paying attention to my posts.

Says you, who doesn't even get who posts which screenshots.

Then why did you say I was lying about it not working for me? That I knew better but was saying it anyhow?

I never said you were lying about it not working for you. You were lying because you claimed that it works for nobody even though you knew it does for ghporter and me.

I said some people were having problems getting there. And if you look at the site I posted, ALL updates and bug fixes STOPPED right after said block MS made. Why was it stopped then?

There are many reasons why it could have been stopped. Maybe it is a low priority bug since there is Google maps. Maybe Microsoft changed the website to make an easy fix impossible. Maybe engineers working on it forgot the bug.

I mean I didn't expect an apology. (hardly anyone does it in here when they should) But come on TET.

I was right all the time about being able to get the page served with a changed user agent, and now you admit it. So what am I supposed to apologize for?

Kevin · Oct 23, 2007, 06:00 AM

TETENAL read the rest of the thread. What we and others have just found out proves what I was saying pretty much right. (Others claims it wasn't working for them, then it did, then it stopped working again.. MS is changing things around frequently to get it to work right in Safari obviously)

You told me I was saying something when I new otherwise. I was not. Now you can apologize for accussing me of such a thing, or you can ignore it.

I never said you were lying about it not working for you. You were lying because you claimed that it works for nobody even though you knew it does for ghporter and me.

I never said it didn't work for nobody. I even said that was obvious it did if ghreporter said it was working for him. I said it wasn't working for those on the last post of said bug.

I take it that English isn't your first language. And that is ok. But stop accusing people of things they aren't doing.

You are just now being argumentative for the sake of arguing. I suggest you read the many posts before yours before digging the hole any deeper.

Reggie Fowler · Oct 23, 2007, 07:45 AM

New Safari coming out in 2 days. Can't wait to see how different it is that the BETA

Kevin · Oct 23, 2007, 07:54 AM

I haven't really had any problems with this last beta at all.

TETENAL · Oct 23, 2007, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I never said it didn't work for nobody.

Yes, you did:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Changing the user agent in Safari does not, I repeat, does not let you render Live Local Search at all.

It redirects you to Live Local Search

No matter what version you are using.

There is no "for me" or "for some people" in this statement. There is a "you" in it, which either means me, TETENAL, which was wrong since I could get it to work, or it means "any person" which is equally wrong for the same reason.

Originally Posted by Kevin

If the developers can't even access the page, how are they going to fix any bugs Safari has with it? They can't.

And again them changing the user agent wont let them load the page.

And that's where you were wrong. You, Kevin, couldn't get the right page to be served, because you made a mistake in changing the user agent. Apple's developers definitely know how to do that. Claiming that Microsoft somehow hampers fixing of this bug was dishonest.

Kevin · 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Yes, you did:

That was BEFORE it was pointed out to me that others could hack around it. As *I* and other people in the forum has said to you, THEY could not get it working either. I showed you WHY I said what I did. And gave you the REASON for it. Which was 100% legit. And you keep ignoring these things for some reason.

And that's where you were wrong. You, Kevin, couldn't get the right page to be served, because you made a mistake in changing the user agent.

TETENAL I really wish you'd read my posts. I really really do. It would stop 90% of the arguing between me and you. The reason it did not
work for me wasn't because of a mistake I made either. As others told you above throughout the day it would work, then not work. Like MS was working on it. It would break, then work, then break again. Dig?

Apple's developers definitely know how to do that.

I never said Apple didn't do that. But how do you know they didn't try like me and many others that did and it didn't load for them? You don't.
All we know is, the developers stopped messing with it once the block by MS was put into place. And right now, MS seems to be the one working on it to get it to work in Safari. Not the other way around.

Claiming that Microsoft somehow hampers fixing of this bug was dishonest.

I said that is what it LOOKS like they were doing. From the the beginning that all this was speculation. That no one knew.

And you went and took everything I said waaay too seriously and didn't pay attention to those small minor details that make a big difference.

Well it seems you payed attention to parts you wanted to, while ignoring the rest. If you can't see how you owe me an apology for saying that I was lying about the things I was saying then I don't know what to tell you. Go on with your bad self.

I suggest you read the thread over again. A bit more carefully.

For Example was Charles lying when he agreed with me with what I was saying?

Originally Posted by CharlesS

What the hey? You're right, I just tried it, and it is working in Safari now if I change the user agent to Firefox. Huh. Previously, it wasn't.

See, at one time Charles couldn't get it to work either. But now he can! Something has changes since this thread first started.

The interface has also changed somewhat from what it was when I played with it in Firefox the other week. Apparently something has changed server-side. I guess we can rule out Safari being at fault for the problems that were formerly occurring.

So did I lie? No. Lying is intentionally telling something to someone when you know better. And I surely did not do that. Even though you accused me of it.

So please stop this "he said she said" silliness that gh asked people to stop long ago. It has nothing really to do with the topic. You are just trying to make lame character assassinations so you wont look like you did anything wrong. It's too late for that.

So no, you don't HAVE to apologize. No one is MAKING you. But it would garner you some respect I am sure. Keeping this "he said she said" charade going on certainly wont do you any service. I promise you that.

besson3c · Oct 23, 2007, 11:37 AM

I wish Judge Judy were here.

Kevin · Oct 23, 2007, 01:49 PM

besson this is a A B conversation. C your way out of it.

Weren't you just whining the other day because I wouldn't leave you alone?

Reggie Fowler · Oct 26, 2007, 07:30 AM

Here is another website that won't load for me. it's a MSNBC Map of the Wild Fires in California.
Map: Fires of Southern California - California Wildfires - MSNBC.com

Try loading it for Safari for Mac.
Blank isn't it.

Kevin · Oct 26, 2007, 07:41 AM

Did you try changing your user agent?

Reggie Fowler · 03:33 PM

In Terminal: "defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1" to see the debug menu.

Well, i'm officially running Safari in OS 10.5 and i still cannot load up Microsoft Virtual Earth. So, my earlier statements stand true. Microsoft has officially blocked the latest and greatest Apple Browswer.

and yes, i'm used the debug menu to see that by selecting firefox and other browsers, it's possible to open the site. But i wish they didn't block Apple Safari!

Kevin · Oct 27, 2007, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler

Well, i'm officially running Safari in OS 10.5 and i still cannot load up Microsoft Virtual Earth. So, my earlier statements stand true. Microsoft has officially blocked the latest and greatest Apple Browswer.

No one is questioning if MS is blocking it or not. They obviously are. What we are saying is, they are fixing it to work with Safari as we speak. When switching user agents the site loads, and has been working better than before.

and yes, i'm used the debug menu to see that by selecting firefox and other browsers, it's possible to open the site. But i wish they didn't block Apple Safari!

I just tried and got it to work Reggie and I got it to work.

Now *I* wont call you a liar and say you aren't telling the truth. I believe you can't get it to work. As it happened to me. Go back a few posts of mine and look at my explanation why. And try to do it the way I suggested.

What is going on it seems is, MS is making the site work with Safari correctly. (Something that should have been done a long time ago... but we know how MS is..) Until THEY get it to work right, they don't want Safari users on it sending in complaints. So they redirect it attempting to fool some into thinking their product works.

fosters2 · Oct 27, 2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler

The imaging using Virtual Earth is incredible. The satellite images are so crystal clear. But you'll never be able to see them using Safari. I have to believe that Safari is capable of displaying these images. It must be a block on Microsoft's side. They must have programmed it so that when it see's Safari, it blocks. Hmmm, why would they do that?

Being that Safari 3.0.3 is most likely the version that will be in OS 10.5, i can only assume that when the new operating system is released, we still won't be able to access this site.

This is another clear example of how Microsoft is taking shots at Apple.

The "satellite" images are crystal clear because they aren't all satellite images. They use aircraft to get lower level shots. I hosted a couple of guys that do the aerial filming. It's pretty boring work, flying a specific grid using a GPS for guidance.

Reggie Fowler · Nov 3, 2007, 07:20 AM

It's November and Safari still doesn't open the Microsoft Virtual Earth website properly.

besson3c · Nov 3, 2007, 12:56 PM

Reggie, I told you, the release of Safari 3/Leopard would not magically bring about Safari support in MVE. There is no magic "make this work" switch to pull, programming is a far more complicated and involved process. It is only now that the MS development team can *start* this process, and there are no guarantees that this is a top priority for them. In fact, it probably isn't.

Kevin · Nov 3, 2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler

It's November and Safari still doesn't open the Microsoft Virtual Earth website properly.

Go to MS's forum and complain.

Reggie Fowler · Nov 18, 2007, 08:38 AM

10.5 has been out for almost a month. website still not working. bad microsoft.

techtrucker · Nov 18, 2007, 08:50 AM

Haven't read the whole thread...but the recent changes to Hotmail prevent me from logging in with Safari 3.0.4, that's only been a recent development, in the past week or two. Works fine with FireFox.

Kevin · Nov 18, 2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Go to MS's forum and complain.

Quoted for posterity.

AppleGirl1990 · Feb 22, 2008, 09:12 AM

Came across this post back in November. Looks like it's still not fixed months later.

Cadaver · Feb 22, 2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Came across this post back in November. Looks like it's still not fixed months later.

I'm sorry, but do you think Microsoft really cares?

Love Calm Quiet · Feb 23, 2008, 11:16 AM

Yup. Still.

Safari 3.0.4:

OP's original link takes me to: Live Local Search

MSNBC "video" shows only as blank (black) space.

This is all very strange. Usually MS "plays well with others" -- wouldn't you say?

AppleGirl1990 · Mar 18, 2008, 06:02 PM

Safari 3.1 is out. Months have past. Still no access to the website first noted in this post.
If you have ever doubted that Microsoft hates Safari users....doubt no more!

ghporter · Mar 18, 2008, 06:24 PM

No. Microsoft doesn't CARE about Safari users. MS doesn't care about anything that doesn't make them money. They tweaked those sites to be incredibly good (all things being equal) in Internet Explorer 7, and that meant using the special (and non-standards-based) features of IE7. Which broke Safari's ability to render the pages.

Contact the webmasters and complain if you really want access to those pages.

turtle777 · Mar 18, 2008, 07:13 PM

Who gives a sh!t ?

It's M$, just stay away. I have yet to see a M$ web-site that is soooo good that I couldn't live w/o.

-t

AppleGirl1990 · Mar 18, 2008, 08:27 PM

Safari isn't broken/unable to render the website. If you change the User Agent in Safari, you can trick it into telling the website that Safari is Internet Explorer and then it opens perfectly.

So Safari can clearly handle the website!

ghporter · Mar 18, 2008, 08:33 PM

No, it doesn't-at least for me. Safari (3.04 at the moment) draws the page, but the search function just doesn't work. I get an almost entirely blank page. It appears that the search function uses some ActiveX or other IE "magic" that Safari (being a standards-based app) doesn't support.

TETENAL · Mar 18, 2008, 09:13 PM

Safari 3.1

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2008, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

No, it doesn't-at least for me. Safari (3.04 at the moment) draws the page, but the search function just doesn't work. I get an almost entirely blank page. It appears that the search function uses some ActiveX or other IE "magic" that Safari (being a standards-based app) doesn't support.

Ditto in 3.1. Search does not work.

twodog72 · Mar 23, 2008, 08:24 PM

when selecting Firefox as the User Agent, not IE. I tried it under the guise of IE and got the same result as everyone else - page loads, but searching yields a blank page.

And, not only did the Firefox setting solve the searching hang up, but it also let me use my collection of pushpin locations I saved on the PC, which is what I really needed for work.

I've recently seen the light, switched to Mac, and can understand now the frustration with Microsoft!