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The Nunes Subversion
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The Final Dakar
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Dec 20, 2017, 09:55 PM
 
Looks like some GOP on the Hill are gearing up to attack the DOJ, FBI, & possibly the Special Counsel.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...doj-fbi-310121
A group of House Republicans has gathered secretly for weeks in the Capitol in an effort to build a case that senior leaders of the Justice Department and FBI improperly — and perhaps criminally — mishandled the contents of a dossier that describes alleged ties between President Donald Trump and Russia, according to four people familiar with their plans.
I wonder if those people might include Rod Rosenstein and perhaps Deputy Director McCabe?

A subset of the Republican members of the House intelligence committee, led by Chairman Devin Nunes of California, has been quietly working parallel to the committee's high-profile inquiry into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. They haven't informed Democrats about their plans, but they have consulted with the House's general counsel.
That final product could ultimately be used by Republicans to discredit special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into whether any Trump aides colluded with Russia during the 2016 campaign — or possibly even to justify his dismissal, as some rank-and-file Republicans and Trump allies have demanded.
Republicans in the Nunes-led group suspect the FBI and DOJ have worked either to hurt Trump or aid his former campaign rival Hillary Clinton, a sense that has pervaded parts of the president’s inner circle.

The sources familiar with the separate inquiry said it was born out of steadily building frustration with the Justice Department's refusal to share details of the way the Trump dossier was used to launch the FBI's investigation of his campaign team last year — or whether it was the basis for any court-ordered surveillance of Trump associates.
It's unclear how many members of the intelligence committee are participating in the side effort. Lawmakers on the full committee interviewed by POLITICO refused to discuss it.
"I hate to use the word corrupt, but they’ve become at least so dirty that who’s watching the watchmen? Who’s investigating these people?" he said in a Fox News interview earlier this month. "There is no one."
Projection: As Chair of House Intelligence Nunes is a watchman.

Earlier this week, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) called for the FBI's deputy director, Andrew McCabe, to be replaced amid claims by Republicans of anti-Trump bias infecting the bureau. And Gowdy, the chairman of the House oversight committee, joined House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte on Tuesday to request interviews with senior FBI officials as early as Thursday — which some lawmakers say is the precursor to subpoenas.
Schiff said committee rules require consultation between Republicans and Democrats, but House Speaker Paul Ryan must enforce bipartisan cooperation if he wants it to occur.

"And at this point, you have to conclude that he doesn’t," Schiff said. Ryan’s office declined to comment.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 23, 2017, 08:26 PM
 
So, it got clearer as to what the game might be here.
Senior FBI officials with whom Comey reportedly discussed Trump's obstruction efforts at the time include Andy McCabe, Jim Baker, and Jim Rybicki. All are now targets of GOP smear campaigns. Draw your own conclusions.
Just like the right has smeared Comey since he intimated that Trump may have obstructed justice in his conversations with him, they're now attacking anyone who discussed Trump with in an effort to preemptively discredit them and undermine any case Mueller might make.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 27, 2017, 10:16 PM
 
Remember when the GOP accidentally said aloud what Voter ID was about?

Now one's done it with the FBI:
"I would like to see the directors of these agencies purge it and say 'look, we have a lot of great agents, a lot of great lawyers here'," he told host Hallie Jackson. "Those are the people that I want the American people to see and know the good work being done, not these people that are kind of the deep state."
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 28, 2017, 12:36 AM
 
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/by...rticle/2644460
House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes has issued a subpoena to David Kramer, a former State Department official who, in late November 2016, traveled to London to receive a briefing and a copy of the Trump dossier from its author, former British spy Christopher Steele. Kramer then returned to the U.S. to give the document to Sen. John McCain.

Kramer is a senior fellow at the McCain Institute for International Leadership at Arizona State University.

McCain later took a copy of the dossier to the FBI's then-director, James Comey. But the FBI already had the document; Steele himself gave the dossier to the bureau in installments, reportedly beginning in early July 2016.
Nunes trying to drag McCain under the bus?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 5, 2018, 05:27 PM
 
Grassley and Graham get in on the act.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2a19b5d12500
The Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee recommended Friday that the Justice Department investigate for possible criminal charges the author of the now-famous “dossier” alleging the Trump campaign coordinated with the Kremlin during the 2016 election.

The move by Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) marks a major escalation in conservatives’ challenges to the FBI’s credibility as the agency investigates whether any Trump associates committed crimes. Another Republican, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), joined in the letter to the Justice Department.

Their letter makes what is called a criminal referral to the Justice Department, suggesting it investigate the dossier author, former British spy Christopher Steele, for possibly lying to the FBI. It is a crime to lie to FBI agents about a material fact relevant to an ongoing investigation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.241452ba28a7
But while they make the allegation publicly in the letter, the details of Steele's potential lying are contained within an attached document marked classified. In other words, they are suggesting Steele may have lied, but don't say what he might have lied about.

And indeed, it would be impossible for them to do so, given their accusation is apparently based upon his interviews with the FBI, which were recently shared with the Judiciary Committee and aren't public. But the point here is that they made the allegation of Steele's lying public.
Another reason it's strange is that Grassley and Graham are alleging that Steele may have lied using information the Justice Department already has and had shared with them. It's not clear why Grassley and Graham believe they see potential lies in Steele's interviews that the investigators haven't noticed. It's possible they have information from their own investigation that leads them to believe Steele lied, but they don't say as much in their cover letter.
tl;dr Grassley and Graham think DOJ too dumb to realize Steele lied to them, completely ignore that Sessions did lie in front of them during his nom.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 5, 2018, 05:29 PM
 
Also, looks like the McCabe angle isn't panning out: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...be/1007672001/

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, whom President Trump has blamed for influencing the decision not to criminally charge Hillary Clinton for her use of private email server, did not oversee that inquiry while his wife was running for state office in Virginia as a Democrat, according to bureau records released Friday.

The internal documents, published on the FBI's website, support what the bureau has asserted previously: that McCabe had no conflicts when he assumed oversight of the Clinton investigation. His role began in February 2016, following his appointment as deputy director and three months after his wife, Jill McCabe, lost her bid for a state Senate seat.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 13, 2018, 10:56 PM
 

     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 18, 2018, 10:11 PM
 
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/954173397096976385
Conservatives pushing hard for House Intel to publicly release four-page summary of Nunes investigation over what they say is FISA abuse during 2016 elections; Dems say Nunes unilaterally put together a memo that leaves out key details and exaggerates findings
Sounds like they might make their move soon.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 20, 2018, 05:21 PM
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/relea...ccounts-2018-1
#ReleaseTheMemo is the top-trending hashtag among Twitter accounts linked to Russian influence operations, according to Hamilton 68, a website launched last year that says it tracks Russian propaganda in near-real time.

The frequency with which the accounts have been promoting the hashtag has spiked by 233,000% over the past 48 hours, according to the site. The accounts' references to the "memo," meanwhile, have increased by 68,000%.
"On a normal day, our top hashtag is typically used around 400 times in a 48-hour period by the network we track," he said in an email on Friday.

"As of right now, #ReleaseTheMemo has been used over 3,000 times (and five other related hashtags are in the top 10)," he said. "In total, they've easily shared more than 4,500 hashtags on the topic in the past two days, and our top URL is Assange's offer to pay for a copy of the memo. That certainly seems to be a sign of a coordinated effort by the bots and trolls."
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 21, 2018, 05:11 PM
 
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fb...-memo?ref=home
"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.
     
BadKosh
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Jan 23, 2018, 02:17 PM
 
Anybody see those missing FBI messages? Next to Hillary's scrubbed server? OK! Thanks. How does Peter Strzok get David Boies to defend him?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 23, 2018, 02:39 PM
 
Wrong thread. That goes in the Nunes Subversion, if you're looking to talk about them and not shitpist and run.
     
Chongo
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Jan 23, 2018, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Wrong thread. That goes in the Nunes Subversion, if you're looking to talk about them and not shitpist and run.
You mean the Comey/Lynch/Obama/Deep State/Strzok-Page/FBI Secret Society subversion Thread
     
Chongo
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Jan 23, 2018, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Anybody see those missing FBI messages? Next to Hillary's scrubbed server? OK! Thanks. How does Peter Strzok get David Boies to defend him?
Sessions is looking into that.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...d-why-fbi-text

The ghost of Rose Mary Wood must be haunting the FBI’s IT department.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 24, 2018, 07:31 PM
 
Other people Nunes won't release the memo to: His republican counterpart in the senate
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/polit...emo/index.html
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr's staff has not been given access to a classified memo drafted by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, a sign of how closely House Republicans are guarding allegations of Justice Department wrongdoing over surveillance activities in the Russia investigation.

According to three sources familiar with the matter, Burr's staff requested a copy of the memo and has been denied, just as the FBI and Justice Department have also been denied reviewing a copy of the document. The memo is based on highly classified intelligence that only a select group of House and Senate lawmakers have accessed.

The Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs for Trump's DOJ also calling for the memo to be reviewed by DOJ/FBI before release.
JUST IN: DOJ's Stephen Boyd has sent a letter to @DevinNunes saying release of *the memo* without review by DOJ/FBI would be "extraordinarily reckless." Says the memo purports to be based on "classified source materials that neither you nor most of" the committee "have seen."
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...00478010351617

In other non-surprising news:
Thousands of FBI cellphones were affected by the technical glitch that the DOJ says prevented five months’ worth of text messages between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page from being stored or uploaded into the bureau’s archive system, federal law enforcement officials tell Fox News.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...cials-say.html
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 24, 2018, 08:50 PM
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclu...ry?id=52592241
"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society," FBI lawyer Lisa Page wrote to senior FBI agent Peter Strzok, who was working on the FBI’s probe of Russian meddling in the presidential election and would later join Page for a brief period on Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team.

That text stands alone in the series of messages obtained by ABC News – with no apparent tie to other messages sent before or after it.
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
     
Chongo
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Jan 25, 2018, 08:50 AM
 
Reports are the DOJ is in the process of recovering the 18-1/2 minutes of missing text messages.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 25, 2018, 01:53 PM
 
The IG recovered them.

Crisis averted.
     
Chongo
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Jan 29, 2018, 04:28 PM
 
Director Wray read the FISA memo Sunday McCabe has been “removed.”
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 29, 2018, 07:59 PM
 
Thank god, someone else can post the news in here for once. All yours, chongo.
     
Chongo
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Jan 29, 2018, 09:15 PM
 
The FISA memo summary is over to President Trump for review.
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:00 PM
 
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Thank god, someone else can post the news in here for once. All yours, chongo.
Yes since the mods pushed out right of center voices, there's nothing really to do here any more is there? Thought I would post and run for old times sake, but seeing as you've started 19 of the last 20 threads I can see thats turning out about exactly as I had suspected.
     
subego
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:08 PM
 
I’m not sure Dakar deserves shit over a beef with the mods.
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m not sure Dakar deserves shit over a beef with the mods.
Oh I'm not trying to give Dakar any shit. Just saying be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it.

/derail

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support not releasing the memo, other than partisan motives. Dakar, Subego, can you help me understand the argument against transparency here or is it equally as befuddling to you?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Man, what coincidence you posted right after the best news for Trump in months.

Where were you glib postings for disinfectant in the Russia or witch hunt thread?
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Man, what coincidence you posted right after the best news for Trump in months.
What exactly are you trying to insinuate?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Oh I'm not trying to give Dakar any shit. Just saying be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it.

/derail

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support not releasing the memo, other than partisan motives. Dakar, Subego, can you help me understand the argument against transparency here or is it equally as befuddling to you?
I'm for release as it can be misrepresented as anything in secret. The problem is if it makes claims that can't be corroborated because the evidence is secret where back at square one.

The other problem is you'd have to make a compelling case that
A. Nunes is a reliable source.
B. Nunes motive hasn't been undermining the Russia investigation.

Can you make that case?
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm for release as it can be misrepresented as anything in secret. The problem is if it makes claims that can't be corroborated because the evidence is secret where back at square one.
Sort of like the dossier? Which rumor has it is precisely what the memo pertains to? Y'know, the thing that the whole investigation seems to be based on at this point? The irony literally brings me joy.

Sounds like a great argument for even greater transparency.

The other problem is you'd have to make a compelling case that
A. Nunes is a reliable source.
Ad hom - let's see the memo.

B. Nunes motive hasn't been undermining the Russia investigation.
Again, let's see the evidence. A year in, there's more smoke around those running the investigation then has come out of it.
Can you make that case?
Not without seeing the evidence, which is precisely why I don't understand how you could argue against transparency. Can you make either case above without even having seen the memo?

Mcabe's sudden exit with the release imminent seems more like what you're talking about than anything Nunes has done, but I will withhold until I can see it for myself.

Is your defacto now "it's secret until theres a good reason it shouldn't be?". I tend to view classification the exact opposite way.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Man, what coincidence you posted right after the best news for Trump in months.

Where were you glib postings for disinfectant in the Russia or witch hunt thread?
For your information, and not that this is any of your business, I was out of the country for the last 3+ weeks on a work trip and traveled for the holidays for another two week stretch before. You want to see my boarding passes? Or maybe a tinfoil hat & a special counsel to investigate my claims would help you enjoy the smell of your farts a little more than you already are?
     
subego
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I honestly don't understand how anyone can support not releasing the memo, other than partisan motives. Dakar, Subego, can you help me understand the argument against transparency here or is it equally as befuddling to you?
I triaged this one, so my only contribution is Nunes kinda looks like Fred Savage.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I triaged this one, so my only contribution is Nunes kinda looks like Fred Savage.
I guess my point is, can we make any conclusions about motive without knowing the substance of the memo?

It's like upside down land where the dems are railing against transparency and the republicans are all for it. Then again, we always knew those positions were based on political expediency and that when there was a dog in the fight, the dems and repubs alike will do what they can to shape the narrative. Hook, line, sinker.

We the people are doomed if we cannot draw at least that conclusion on our own.
     
subego
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Jan 30, 2018, 03:19 PM
 
The argument I’m hearing which makes me think “okay, the complaint could have merit” is it could blow out some sources.
     
Laminar
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Jan 30, 2018, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Yes since the mods pushed out right of center voices, there's nothing really to do here any more is there?
Can you list five right-of-center voices specifically pushed out by the mods? I can think of:

- Shaddim - His presence seemed to magically cause every discussion to devolve into name-calling and petty slapfights. Heated political arguments can (and do continue to) happen without this, so it wasn't simply a clash of beliefs.
- Railroader - He baited and picked, picked and baited.
- Abe - Conspiracy theorist, and again discussions he was involved in devolved fast
- Kevin - Idiot.

Only one of those happened in the past year, the rest of those were from 5+ years ago. And to be clear, the mods were only enforcing the rules that already exist.

So what's even the point of having rules if we ignore them whenever we want to? The rules are the rules are the rules. Just because Shaddim's political stances don't line up with those of many people here doesn't mean he's being oppressed because of his political beliefs.

I mean, people have been complaining about how over-moderation is ruining these forums for at least 17 years. That's not a new complaint you have.

Maybe there aren't many right-of-center voices left because this is a dying forum and people are bored and moved onto other things? It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Many hardcore Republicans/Conservatives/Trump supporters have moved into more secluded communities where they don't have to bother with such trivialities as having their beliefs questioned.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
but seeing as you've started 19 of the last 20 threads I can see thats turning out about exactly as I had suspected.
You're saying that this place is basically a liberal echo-chamber, right?

If a flat-earther came in and declared this place a spherical-earth echo chamber, would he be wrong? Would it be a bad thing that everyone here operates with the baseline belief that the earth is (more or less) spherical? Can valid discussion not happen unless we have members from all belief systems represented?
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Sort of like the dossier? Which rumor has it is precisely what the memo pertains to? Y'know, the thing that the whole investigation seems to be based on at this point? The irony literally brings me joy.
By "the whole investigation" are you referring to Mueller's investigation into Trump's connections with Russia? That the dossier kicked off the Russia investigation is a very important Republican talking point, but I suggest you look into Papadopoulos' meeting with Alexander Downer and also Fusion GPS's testimony in front of Congress.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Can you list five right-of-center voices specifically pushed out by the mods? I can think of:
- Shaddim - His presence seemed to magically cause every discussion to devolve into name-calling and petty slapfights. Heated political arguments can (and do continue to) happen without this, so it wasn't simply a clash of beliefs.
- Railroader - He baited and picked, picked and baited.
- Abe - Conspiracy theorist, and again discussions he was involved in devolved fast
- Kevin - Idiot.
[/quote]
Don't forget about Doofy.

Name two leftys pushed out in similar fashion.
Only one of those happened in the past year, the rest of those were from 5+ years ago. And to be clear, the mods were only enforcing the rules that already exist.
Selectively, and only against right wing voices. The same behaviors exhibited by lefties went unpunished.
So what's even the point of having rules if we ignore them whenever we want to? The rules are the rules are the rules. Just because Shaddim's political stances don't line up with those of many people here doesn't mean he's being oppressed because of his political beliefs.
That works if you apply them across the board, consistently. That was not done here. We don't need to rehash it though.

I mean, people have been complaining about how over-moderation is ruining these forums for at least 17 years. That's not a new complaint you have.
No no no, I'm not complaining about over moderation. I'm complaining about targeted moderation.

Maybe there aren't many right-of-center voices left because this is a dying forum and people are bored and moved onto other things? It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Many hardcore Republicans/Conservatives/Trump supporters have moved into more secluded communities where they don't have to bother with such trivialities as having their beliefs questioned.
Your worldview and it's lack of breadth is astonishing to me. Perhaps this is the community that has become secluded, where you don't have to bother with such trivialities of having your beliefs questioned. I mean you hit the nail on the head, talking about this place here.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
By "the whole investigation" are you referring to Mueller's investigation into Trump's connections with Russia? That the dossier kicked off the Russia investigation is a very important Republican talking point, but I suggest you look into Papadopoulos' meeting with Alexander Downer and also Fusion GPS's testimony in front of Congress.
Instead of speculating we ought to see for ourselves. No? That is my point here. We can speculate all day and you and I will likely come to very different conclusions in the absence of the facts.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Originally Posted by Laminar
- Shaddim - His presence seemed to magically cause every discussion to devolve into name-calling and petty slapfights. Heated political arguments can (and do continue to) happen without this, so it wasn't simply a clash of beliefs.
- Railroader - He baited and picked, picked and baited.
- Abe - Conspiracy theorist, and again discussions he was involved in devolved fast
- Kevin - Idiot.
Don't forget about Doofy.
<modvoice>None of these people were sent off for their political opinions, only for their behavior. Accusations of that are as old as MacNN itself. It never helped that when MacNN was bigger, we had a larger, quite diverse staff modding the forums and the PL in particular. Especially the PL had a few conservative mods such as vmarks or ColdWarrior.

Also, Shaddim hasn't been banned like, say, Kevin has, he chose to not participate further here. </modvoice>
( Last edited by OreoCookie; Jan 30, 2018 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Fixed a tag)
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 30, 2018, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Director Wray read the FISA memo Sunday McCabe has been “removed.”
Well chongo's uncited news hasn't been corroborated.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
What exactly are you trying to insinuate?
Oh I'm not trying to insinuate anything. I'm flatly saying even if your timing is coincidental, your choice of thread to comment in belies the non-partisan persona you try to exude.

If you truly believed sunlight is the best disinfectant, you'd be supportive of Mueller Investigation, not the guy trying to kill it.
     
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Jan 30, 2018, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Well chongo's uncited news hasn't been corroborated.
You can use a search engine yes?
https://saraacarter.com/mccabe-resig...buse-memo/amp/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...s-learned.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cCabe-OUT.html
     
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Jan 31, 2018, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
- Shaddim - His presence seemed to magically cause every discussion to devolve into name-calling and petty slapfights. Heated political arguments can (and do continue to) happen without this, so it wasn't simply a clash of beliefs.
- Railroader - He baited and picked, picked and baited.
- Abe - Conspiracy theorist, and again discussions he was involved in devolved fast
- Kevin - Idiot.
Don't forget about Doofy.
He wasn't banned. Don't forget that he was basically British Shaddim - overconfident, overbearing, prone to name-calling, outbursts, arguments from authority, irrational, and impossible to have a disagreement with. He held grudges and picked on people. Anyone that disagreed with him was an idiot.

Like I said before, it's possible to have a heated political discussion without it devolving into trash, but Doofy and Shaddim were not capable of such conversations.

Name two leftys pushed out in similar fashion.
First you'll need to establish that the aforementioned posters were pushed out because of their political beliefs, and not because of their insufferable behavior.

Selectively, and only against right wing voices. The same behaviors exhibited by lefties went unpunished.
As OreoCookie said, that's an accusation as old as the boards, and one that was prevalent even when the PWL had conservative mods.

Your worldview and it's lack of breadth is astonishing to me.
Lack of breadth? Have you not heard of Facebook? No one visits forums anymore - I regularly visit 5-10 forums and every single one of them has seen a nosedive in activity over the past ~5 years. Because the last few people that still come here are left-leaning doesn't mean that it was due to active choices made by the moderators.

Perhaps this is the community that has become secluded, where you don't have to bother with such trivialities of having your beliefs questioned. I mean you hit the nail on the head, talking about this place here.
And I've gone on the record multiple times saying that this place needs more conservative voices capable of having honest, productive discussions. Accusing me of wanting or enjoying an echo chamber comes across as you trying to make me out to be partisan, which is dishonest on your part.

Shaddim was 100% not capable of productive, honest discussion. Neither are the other two hardcore conservatives that post here regularly.

Having an open, honest discussion about politics and the state of our nation is difficult when the president has made it clear that truth and objective facts don't matter. Those that choose to actively support the president are then required to adopt a similar stance, and we can no longer discuss something as stupid and pointless as the size of a crowd of people, let alone strategies for improving the livelihood of this country's citizens.
     
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Jan 31, 2018, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Instead of speculating we ought to see for ourselves. No? That is my point here. We can speculate all day and you and I will likely come to very different conclusions in the absence of the facts.
I take it you ignored my suggestions.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 31, 2018, 10:29 PM
 
So much news today. Will post if I want the distraction because I'm sick, but the biggest story is Trump's own FBI director actually released a public statement against releasing the memo.


Don't pretend citing news stories isn't the norm here.

And I pointed it out because I've seen conflicting accounts as to what caused Wray to step aside.
     
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Feb 1, 2018, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Maybe there aren't many right-of-center voices left because this is a dying forum and people are bored and moved onto other things? It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Many hardcore Republicans/Conservatives/Trump supporters have moved into more secluded communities where they don't have to bother with such trivialities as having their beliefs questioned.
Your worldview and it's lack of breadth is astonishing to me. Perhaps this is the community that has become secluded, where you don't have to bother with such trivialities of having your beliefs questioned. I mean you hit the nail on the head, talking about this place here.
Can I just take a second look at this post? I think it illustrates what I feel is missing.

I make a couple of assertions:
- This forum is dying, many posters have moved on of their own accord (this is indisputable).
- Many Republicans/Conservatives/Trump supporters have been able to shut out opposing viewpoints by secluding themselves with like-minded social media users and conservative-leaning news (and "news") sources (this is also indisputable).

Now I'll admit that including the "trivialities" was pretty bait-y, so I'll take partial responsibility for what followed, but in any case what followed wasn't a discussion about the rise of Breitbart or Gab. It was you insulting the breadth of my worldview (??) accusing me of not wanting my beliefs questioned, something I've strongly and openly advocated for the past.

Are you looking for productive, honest discussion between people of different values, worldviews, and priorities? That's possible, but it takes effort.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 1, 2018, 08:18 PM
 
So, the news on this is fast and furious. What I caught in the past 48

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.1f402c7d3ec5
Top Justice Department officials made a last-ditch plea Monday to White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly about the dangers of publicly releasing a memo alleging abuses by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, according to people briefed on the meeting.
Rosenstein, who is supervising special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, said the Department of Justice was not convinced the memo accurately describes its investigative practices. He said making the document public could set a dangerous precedent, according to a person familiar with the discussion.

While Wray also expressed opposition to the memo’s release, Rosenstein did much of the talking, according to a senior U.S. government official. Attorney General Jeff Sessions was not present at the meeting.

In response, Kelly told Rosenstein and Wray that the president was still inclined to release the memo but the White House would go through a review led by the National Security Council and the White House Counsel’s Office, a senior administration official said.
The effort also comes amid questions about Rosenstein’s own future. The president has told close advisers recently that the memo could provide him with grounds for either firing or forcing the deputy attorney general to leave, according to one person familiar with his remarks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/30/u...?smid=pl-share
When House Speaker Paul D. Ryan said on Tuesday that he wanted Americans to see a secret memo that portrays the early stages of the Trump-Russia investigation as scandalous, he also said he cautioned his Republican colleagues not to use it to impugn Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel running the inquiry.

“This is a completely separate matter from Bob Mueller’s investigation, and his investigation should be allowed to take its course,” Mr. Ryan told reporters.

But as a matter of political reality, the memo — written by Republican staffers for Representative Devin Nunes of California, the House Intelligence Committee chairman — has everything to do with defending President Trump from Mr. Mueller’s investigation.
Asked on Tuesday about why it would not be more appropriate to make both memos public at the same time, Mr. Ryan was evasive. He said the Democratic memo first had to go through a process in which House members outside the Intelligence Committee could read it. Pressed on why the Republican memo should not be held back until that process was done, he said a reporter had asked enough questions.
But Mr. Nunes’s history in Congress undermines the idea that he is motivated by a good-faith concern that law enforcement officials might have conspired to abuse their surveillance powers and trample on civil liberties.

For one thing, Mr. Nunes was a chief architect of Congress’s move this month to extend by six years the government’s power to conduct surveillance without a warrant under certain circumstances. He and his allies turned back a push by reform-minded lawmakers to impose significant new safeguards to protect Americans’ civil liberties against the potential for abuses.

FBI comes out against releasing memo without input


Nunes avoid answering whether the white house helped craft the memo


Some speculation/analysis
https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/958820739683110914
transcript says only Schiff and Gowdy read underlying docs distorted in Nunes staff memo. Schiff alarmed. Gowdy announces retiring
     
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Feb 1, 2018, 08:25 PM
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...a-memo-n843556
The latest developments come less than 24 hours after Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., the Intelligence Committee's ranking Democrat, complained that the committee had sent the White House a different version of the classified memo about the Trump-Russia investigation from the one that committee Republicans voted to release to the public.

Jack Langer, a spokesman for Nunes, confirmed that the memo had been edited, but said that the changes included "grammatical fixes and two edits requested by the FBI and by the Minority themselves," referring to committee Democrats.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...ermining-intel
GOP Sen. Jeff Flake (Ariz.) and Democratic Sen. Christopher Coons (Del.) — both members of the Judiciary Committee — said Trump "should heed the warnings" from the DOJ and FBI, where top officials have taken issue with the forthcoming report.

"The president’s apparent willingness to release this memo risks undermining U.S. intelligence-gathering efforts, politicizing Congress’ oversight role, and eroding confidence in our institutions of government," the senators said in a joint statement.
Flake and Coons said Thursday that releasing the memo would "defy longstanding policies regarding the disclosure of classified information."
     
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Feb 1, 2018, 08:29 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 2, 2018, 01:27 PM
 
I feel played by everyone involved. The republicans, democrats, intelligence community, and media. I think someone decided to play this up for political purposes and it spiraled amazingly out of control.

This bomb is a dud.
     
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Feb 2, 2018, 01:47 PM
 
I suppose the obvious question is what happened in the background while everyone was flipping their shit about this?

Trump not enforcing the sanctions on Russia that were nearly unanimously passed by congress?
     
 
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