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Trump's Cabinet of Deplorables: Now with 33% fewer memes! (Page 10)
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subego
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Aug 2, 2017, 01:33 AM
 
No opinions on Mattis' and Kelly's secret plan to babysit the C-in-C?
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 2, 2017, 03:54 AM
 
No, because it is fake news! Ha!
(No, seriously, Trump has kicked aside one of his most ardent supporters, Jeff Sessions, I don't think anyone can babysit him.)
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subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 12:01 AM
 
Assuming this plane somehow levels out, occupying the key positions we've got,

Kelly
Tillerson
Mattis
McMaster
Sessions

These are... actual adults.

I know I'll get pipe for Sessions, but there's him, and there's Rudy ****in Giuliani. Know what I mean?
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 3, 2017, 12:06 AM
 
Yes, but Tillerson is on vacation (despite the current crises, and reportedly unhappy with his job, also because he gets marginalized and is not allowed to hire the staff he wants), Sessions is being bullied by his boss into either submission or quitting, so that leaves the generals. And I don't know how much power they actually wield, and whether they can say no to Trump.

Given Trump's past history, I'm very skeptical that anyone can reign Trump in. Generals aren't miracle workers, also they can't do much if they are sidelined or contradicted. You might argue that perhaps these generals have a larger pain threshold because they feel it's a duty to serve their country, especially in times of need. But the biggest problem of the Trump administration is Trump himself, and that won't change.
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subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 04:37 AM
 
Trump won't change, but like anyone, he's ultimately reacting to stimuli. Different stimuli will provoke different reactions.

The miracle Kelly needs to pull off is to take the chaotic stimuli Trump has been receiving and channel it into something coherent. If Trump lets Kelly do this, it will cause significant change out of the White House even though Trump is the same.

Of course, the probabilities of "lets Kelly do this" are skinny, but perhaps fatter than one might imagine.

In Kelly's favor is Trump's trust of the military. There are a bunch of reasons why he does so, but one is they don't have a traditional political agenda.

This leads into the second thing in Kelly's favor, which is because he might not have a traditional political agenda, there's a possibility his agenda is genuinely along the lines of "Trump, only less schizophrenic". If it is, there's no real reason for Trump not to trust him. Unlike Priebus and Spicer-Man.

The difficulties for Kelly are whether he's convinced Trump giving him so much control isn't treating Trump like a child, but a bare minimum requirement for "getting shit done", and whether he can fend off accusations he lacks respect for Trump.

What military people do is get shit done (another reason Trump likes them), so it's not implausible Kelly's convinced Trump he has insight into the best practices.

Kelly's luck convincing Trump he has respect for him I think will hinge on whether Kelly has respect for him.
     
subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 04:43 AM
 
If Kelly sees success, a difficulty for him down the line will be convincing Trump he's still the president, and it's not president Kelly.
     
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Aug 3, 2017, 05:48 AM
 
I heard Trump was questioning (complaining about) the constitutionality of something that was impinging slightly on his executive power. No fuss was being made about this so it wasn't a distraction tactic or a media sideshow, but does that not worry anyone? A POTUS who throws a tantrum at any hint that he isn't allowed to do anything and everything he wants?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 3, 2017, 05:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If Kelly sees success, a difficulty for him down the line will be convincing Trump he's still the president, and it's not president Kelly.
I was just about to say this: too much success could turn into a problem for Kelly if Trump thinks Kelly is more popular than him. For this reason alone, I think Kelly will either fail or have to do a bad job to stay on.

Also, there have been no stories about Kelly clashing with Trump on, say, the disastrous rollout of his executive orders on immigration. Even if you are totally on board with the policies, you'd have to agree that the roll out was botched. It doesn't seem as if Kelly has moderated here. And perhaps this is something that Trump actually likes.
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The Final Dakar
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Aug 3, 2017, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Assuming this plane somehow levels out, occupying the key positions we've got,

Kelly
Tillerson
Mattis
McMaster
Sessions

These are... actual adults.

I know I'll get pipe for Sessions, but there's him, and there's Rudy ****in Giuliani. Know what I mean?
Is there anything that Sessions is doing that isn't counterproductive? Seriously what is this guys contribution to stability?
     
subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I heard Trump was questioning (complaining about) the constitutionality of something that was impinging slightly on his executive power. No fuss was being made about this so it wasn't a distraction tactic or a media sideshow, but does that not worry anyone? A POTUS who throws a tantrum at any hint that he isn't allowed to do anything and everything he wants?
This is kinda vague.
     
subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is there anything that Sessions is doing that isn't counterproductive? Seriously what is this guys contribution to stability?
He recused himself from the Russia investigation.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 3, 2017, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He recused himself from the Russia investigation.
That's a low ****ing bar. According to the DOJ policy he cited he had to.

And I'd argue it's cancelled out by his participation in the Comey firing.
     
subego
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Aug 3, 2017, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That's a low ****ing bar. According to the DOJ policy he cited he had to.
As I said, compare and contrast with AG Rudy. Does Rudy follow policy?
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 3, 2017, 03:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As I said, compare and contrast with AG Rudy. Does Rudy follow policy?
That assumes he could get past congress.
     
subego
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Aug 4, 2017, 03:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is there anything that Sessions is doing that isn't counterproductive? Seriously what is this guys contribution to stability?
Let me take another swing at this.

Counterproductive to what? Our lefty opinions on immigration and pot, or the smooth functioning of government?

What has he done to destabilize anything? Again, not counting our lefty opinions.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 4, 2017, 04:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As I said, compare and contrast with AG Rudy. Does Rudy follow policy?
Counterpoint: Is that what matters to Trump?
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That assumes he could get past congress.
I think subego's point is more nuanced. I'm not sure he would agree with what I think, but I reckon the argument is that Trump tries to get rid of Sessions (he is bullying him to quit) for the wrong reasons. Protecting democratic norms is important, because it shows respect for the democratic system and, by extension, the population.

Yes, I find it problematic Sessions was confirmed despite not telling the truth under oath and to mention one other example, his stance on civil asset forfeiture is appalling. Trump will not bully Sessions into quitting for these (right and justified) reasons, he wants him out for the wrong reasons.

It seems that subego is trying to make this point. (Correct me if I am wrong, though.)
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subego
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Aug 4, 2017, 05:36 AM
 
Trump seemed quite irritated Sessions followed policy. I think a malleable DoJ is important to Trump.

I guess my point is Sessions seems to have some principles. He's got plenty of faults, but it appears being a quisling isn't one of them.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 4, 2017, 05:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Trump seemed quite irritated Sessions followed policy. I think a malleable DoJ is important to Trump.
Yes, and this focus on loyalty to Trump before country or party becomes a blemish for all future Trump appointees. Just think about his new appointee Christopher Wray to head the FBI, would you be surprised to hear that Trump had had “the loyalty talk” before nominating him? Theoretically, would it be possible that Trump had fielded 9 candidates before him, asking them for a pledge of fealty, and Wray was the first to say yes? Because of Trump's public obsession with loyalty to him, we know for a fact that it is a possibility rather than tin foil hattery. I think that is terrible for Wray who for all we know is a standup guy. But just this possibility tarnishes his reputation, which is sad.
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The Final Dakar
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Aug 9, 2017, 10:36 AM
 
There seems to be a legit movement to get rid of McMaster on the right, isn't there?
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2017, 04:18 PM
 
I so want to call him "Pufnstuf".
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2017, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
There seems to be a legit movement to get rid of McMaster on the right, isn't there?
My cursory reading of the news says it's specifically Bannon-right.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 9, 2017, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My cursory reading of the news says it's specifically Bannon-right.
Assuming the analysis is good, Russian bots, too.
     
subego
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Aug 19, 2017, 04:09 AM
 


Some great expressions here.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 19, 2017, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post


Some great expressions here.
What's he signing?

This is like an anti-GOP propaganda picture. 14 to 1 men to women, 2 to 1 old to young. White as shit.
     
subego
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Aug 19, 2017, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What's he signing?
1) Executive Order 80085
2) National Day of Pepe Act
3) "Kim is a cuck"
3) Your mother****in death warrant
     
subego
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Aug 20, 2017, 07:13 PM
 
Current rumor article has White House people saying...

If you only knew how much stupid shit we're responsible for killing.

Trump may be as bad as he seems, but he's not as evil as he seems.

We are getting better at steering the guy.

We can't justify standing behind Trump, but we can justify standing behind people like Kelly and Mattis.


https://www.axios.com/why-top-white-...475045237.html

(Axios has become quite the sudden player)
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 28, 2017, 12:45 PM
 
Seems to me Tex Rillerson is all outta ****s to give regarding his boss.
     
Paco500
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Aug 28, 2017, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Seems to me Tex Rillerson is all outta ****s to give regarding his boss.
Why is he still SoS? Do you suppose he's worried what he would be replaced with?
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 28, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
It's god's plan.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 05:33 PM
 
Gee, who would have thought the Goldman Sachs guy would be an entitled prick? Net worth of $300 million and he wants us to pay for him to jet around Europe.
     
subego
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Sep 14, 2017, 05:37 PM
 
I have a feeling there's a piece missing to this and the Fort Knox story, but if there isn't, then yes, he's a total prick.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I have a feeling there's a piece missing to this and the Fort Knox story, but if there isn't, then yes, he's a total prick.
I'm referring to a different story.
     
subego
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Sep 14, 2017, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm referring to a different story.
That post was referring to both.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2017, 10:30 AM
 
I'm beginning to think there's a chance Price doesn't make it out of this one.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 29, 2017, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm beginning to think there's a chance Price doesn't make it out of this one.
Down goes Price.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 4, 2017, 12:11 PM
 
Tillerson calling a press conference to eat humble pie. Interesting.
     
subego
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Oct 4, 2017, 01:09 PM
 
I'm beginning to think threatening to resign is the only leverage these people have.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 4, 2017, 01:44 PM
 
Except Sessions. He has no leverage.

Honestly the longer he's around the more unfathomable I find Tillerson.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 4, 2017, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm beginning to think threatening to resign is the only leverage these people have.
Btw, I'm not sure what you're seeing, as I saw a man put on a mediocre performance of denial to satisfy the presidents ego. That's not something someone with leverage does.
     
subego
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Oct 4, 2017, 04:07 PM
 
I'm only half paying attention to the story, but here's my guess.

Trump did, or was about to do, something so horrible and stupid, Rex had to lose his shit. Trump backed down, and they hugged it out.

Now Rex needs to go out and say "nothing to see here".
     
OreoCookie
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Oct 4, 2017, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Except Sessions. He has no leverage.
I think at this point any cabinet member who had to be confirmed by the Senate is in a strong position, because Trump’s relationship to the Senate is at an all-time low and he would have to rely on them to get a replacement.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Honestly the longer he's around the more unfathomable I find Tillerson.
Seconded.
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 19, 2017, 04:32 PM
 
I think Kelly will be a more polarizing figure after today.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 12:42 PM
 
Kelly mischaracterized Wisons speech. Let's see if he cops to it and apologizes.
     
Paco500
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Kelly mischaracterized Wisons speech. Let's see if he cops to it and apologizes.
I can't imagine Trump would let his Chief of Staff apologise for anything. I would assume that's a fireable offence.
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:20 PM
 
I'm a little behind on this.

Rewinding back to the beginning, hasn't "he knew what he signed up for" been mischaracterized?

I know what he meant, and its different from what I hear people saying he meant.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:22 PM
 
We're well beyond that. The response to story has become its own story. And how Kelly has handled it too.
     
OAW
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Kelly mischaracterized Wisons speech. Let's see if he cops to it and apologizes.
Of course not.

The White House on Friday stood by chief of staff John Kelly’s criticism of Rep. Frederica Wilson’s (D-Fla.) 2015 speech at an FBI building dedication, even though newly released video shows he misrepresented her remarks.
WH stands by Kelly, repeats 'empty barrel' criticism of Wilson | TheHill.com

OAW
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
We're well beyond that. The response to story has become its own story. And how Kelly has handled it too.
These type of things have a cascade effect, no?

Is the assertion Kelly is reacting to a situation where his boss said the equivalent of "**** this dead soldier", or reacting to a situation where his boss is getting smeared with bullshit?
     
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:39 PM
 
There is a case to be made that someone else saying "he knew what he signed on for" would have done better, more sympathetically, or with the sense of "and he did it anyway because he loved his country, was a great hero, etc etc. " I can see someone else saying it and having a different meaning than "he knew what he signed up for, tough s***."

But with Trump, he doesn't have the nuance to say something sympathetically.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:44 PM
 
His outrage goes well beyond the situation. He works with the guy he has to know his delivery of empathy is poor. His address yesterday went well beyond the topic. He came off as authoritarian, dismissive of civilian opinion, and having contempt for the media. Which isn't out of the box for a general, but when it reinforces your bosses worst instincts, its troubling. When you're regarded as the adult in the room and failsafe for a dangerous president it's deeply troubling.

There's an article I'll post later that highlights it better but after yesterday ima lot less confident about his guidance in the Oval Office. The reaction being put out today after his mischarachterization was debunked only affirms that feeling. If the adult in the room wont back down when shown he was wrong, where are we at?
     
 
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