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Trump's Cabinet of Deplorables: Now with 33% fewer memes! (Page 12)
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subego
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Oct 22, 2017, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
My read from his address is he has no regard for politicians of the media in general. The former is now ironic as having become a press-facing CoS he is exactly that – a politician. Right down to having misrepresented someone's actions just to look down on them.
The relevant section of Wilson's speech was basically "congress loves the FBI soooooo much, we named this building in a month... usually it takes us a year".

If it was my job to get shot at, and it was constantly being made more difficult by the ****ups in congress, this isn't really a cute story to me.

Not that it makes it acceptable to fabricate events out of whole cloth, but I can understand where the speech left a sour taste in some mouths.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Oct 22, 2017, 03:31 PM
 
Point A, If someone has a problem with what she really said, they should argue that on its merits, not make up or exaggerate it into some other thing to complain about.

People who do that are dicks.

Point B, the only reason this was dragged up right now is to try to discredit Wilson in some way, I wonder why. I do not recall much furor about this speech in 2015 when it happened, so why are people upset now? Hmmm.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2017, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Point B, the only reason this was dragged up right now is to try to discredit Wilson in some way, I wonder why. I do not recall much furor about this speech in 2015 when it happened, so why are people upset now? Hmmm.
Hence why I argue Kelly has made himself no better than the type of person he despises.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2017, 04:21 PM
 
Again, faced with an account of how the message was received and who delivered it, this administration chose to go after who delivered it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 22, 2017, 08:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Banging nonexistent nails into Trump's coffin undermines the real ones, no?
Not really. Its just noise at this point.
If someone accused Charles Manson of having the most hideous toenails in all of human history and it turned out his feet were perfectly pedicured at all times would that be a reason to forgive him his other crimes or to diminish them even slightly?

At best here Trump was woefully inept at doing a job that anyone capable of empathy would have done ok with, and in all probability he wouldn't have made the call at all if it weren't for either external pressure from the media or him trying to score points on Obama.

The takeaways here are:

1: He is shitty at talking to people which is a valuable skill for any president.
2: He has no empathy with other human beings. This is not only valuable for a president, its valuable for a human being and a pretty massive failing.
3: He probably wouldn't have made the call if it he wasn't trying to score points on Obama which goes further to show that he doesn't care about your armed forces and their sacrifices. Again, a very bad trait for any leader at all.
4: Instead of scoring points over Obama, he made himself look like an idiot (as well as an asshole) because Obama did more as well as vastly better at these things, and without being told to and without making a fuss to score political points.
5: Given that he appears incapable of caring about other people, Trump failed to even fake it. Another useful skill for any politician to have.
6: He followed his usual pattern of bluff, lie, attack. He denied he said it, he doubled down, he attacked Obama, then he got a general to lie to try to take the heat for him. All of this is shitty behaviour for anyone, let alone a president.

So even if we buy that Trump didn't mean to insult the widow of a fallen military hero and was simply inept, we can still glean that he cares more about scoring political points in the media than he does about consoling someone who lost her husband, and showed massive ineptitude at a raft of key or basic leadership skills.

Remembering this is taking the best case scenario from Trump's POV, how nonexistent are these nails?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2017, 09:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Point A, If someone has a problem with what she really said, they should argue that on its merits, not make up or exaggerate it into some other thing to complain about.

People who do that are dicks.

Point B, the only reason this was dragged up right now is to try to discredit Wilson in some way, I wonder why. I do not recall much furor about this speech in 2015 when it happened, so why are people upset now? Hmmm.
Is this directed at me?
     
subego
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Oct 23, 2017, 12:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Couple things here. First, its not like the member of congress eavesdropped. He misportrays what happened. Second, I think it's the mournings rights to share their grief as they see fit that should be sacred, not the president's communication to them. I guess anyone who shared letters Lincoln sent soldiers families was violating Kelly's perceived sacredness?
To me, "I was stunned when I came to work yesterday morning, and broken-hearted at what I saw a member of Congress doing" makes it clear his issue is with what Wilson did once having listened, rather than the listening itself.

Since there's every reason to be pissed-off about what she did afterwards, and no reason to be pissed-off about the listening in and of itself, I resolve the apparent contradiction by assuming his rational claim is the correct one.
     
subego
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Oct 23, 2017, 12:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The takeaways here are:

1: He is shitty at talking to people which is a valuable skill for any president.
2: He has no empathy with other human beings. This is not only valuable for a president, its valuable for a human being and a pretty massive failing.
3: He probably wouldn't have made the call if it he wasn't trying to score points on Obama which goes further to show that he doesn't care about your armed forces and their sacrifices. Again, a very bad trait for any leader at all.
4: Instead of scoring points over Obama, he made himself look like an idiot (as well as an asshole) because Obama did more as well as vastly better at these things, and without being told to and without making a fuss to score political points.
5: Given that he appears incapable of caring about other people, Trump failed to even fake it. Another useful skill for any politician to have.
6: He followed his usual pattern of bluff, lie, attack. He denied he said it, he doubled down, he attacked Obama, then he got a general to lie to try to take the heat for him. All of this is shitty behaviour for anyone, let alone a president.

So even if we buy that Trump didn't mean to insult the widow of a fallen military hero and was simply inept, we can still glean that he cares more about scoring political points in the media than he does about consoling someone who lost her husband, and showed massive ineptitude at a raft of key or basic leadership skills.

Remembering this is taking the best case scenario from Trump's POV, how nonexistent are these nails?

1) I agree, but I don't put nails in people's coffins for it.
2) I would argue he's deficient. As difficult as it is to caricature Trump, the assertion he has none manages it.
3) He made the calls because he was being pressured to.
4) Successful nail!
5) See #2.
6) Successful nail!

The answer is 66.6% nonexistent.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 23, 2017, 12:59 AM
 
Number 3 sounds like a nail. 2 and 5 are just smaller nails. Forgivable by themselves for sure, but when the people who should have done it long ago haven't even put the lid on yet, all you can do to drop hints is keep handing them as many nails as you can find.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 23, 2017, 09:22 AM
 
I guarantee no one in the WH wanted Trump to make those calls, he just backed himself into a corner after ragging on Obama and claiming he was better.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 23, 2017, 09:57 AM
 
Either way, strong criticism is warranted for several reasons.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Oct 23, 2017, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is this directed at me?
To Gen. Kelly, really. But those defending his position, also.
     
subego
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Oct 24, 2017, 12:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Point A, If someone has a problem with what she really said, they should argue that on its merits, not make up or exaggerate it into some other thing to complain about.

People who do that are dicks.

Point B, the only reason this was dragged up right now is to try to discredit Wilson in some way, I wonder why. I do not recall much furor about this speech in 2015 when it happened, so why are people upset now? Hmmm.
For A, my guess is her speech irritated him, but he didn't properly recall why.

For B, I'm not sure what's being implied. It's being brought up now to call into question how much she personally cares.

Whatever the case, Trump is doing a fantastic job of burning up whatever defense he deserves from me for the early events in the chai.


Edit: that's supposed to be "chain", but chai is yummy.
( Last edited by subego; Oct 24, 2017 at 04:26 AM. )
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 29, 2017, 08:32 PM
 
Trump's instincts are amazing. For most of the cabinet spots he really has found some of the worst people imaginable. The ego on this guy (Zinke):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f98_story.html

At the Interior Department’s headquarters in downtown Washington, Secretary Ryan Zinke has revived an arcane military ritual that no one can remember ever happening in the federal government.

A security staffer takes the elevator to the seventh floor, climbs the stairs to the roof and hoists a special secretarial flag whenever Zinke enters the building. When the secretary goes home for the day or travels, the flag — a blue banner emblazoned with the agency’s bison seal flanked by seven white stars representing the Interior bureaus — comes down.

In Zinke’s absence, the ritual is repeated to raise an equally obscure flag for Deputy Secretary David Bernhardt.
He has commissioned commemorative coins with his name on them to give to staff and visitors, but the cost to taxpayers is unclear. Zinke’s predecessors and some other Cabinet secretaries have coins bearing agency seals, but not personalized ones.

The flag ritual is unique in President Trump’s administration. The White House does not raise the presidential flag when Trump alights at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. There is no defense secretary’s flag atop the Pentagon.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, like his predecessors, has a personal flag that flies beside the U.S. flag in front of the department’s Foggy Bottom headquarters. But it’s there whether Tillerson is in the building or not.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 30, 2017, 04:03 PM
 
Kelly going on Ingraham tonight, which, now that I distrust him, seems like red flag. Wonder if the mask is about to drop
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 30, 2017, 09:57 PM
 


Sounds a lot like his boss, in sentiment, though not delivery.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 31, 2017, 12:01 AM
 
John Kelly: "The lack of ability to compromise caused the Civil War.”
Ooooooooof
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 2, 2017, 11:08 AM
 
Clovis withdrew from USDA spot which is a small comfort
     
OAW
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Nov 2, 2017, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Clovis withdrew from USDA spot which is a small comfort
You mean the guy that Trump nominated to be the chief scientist for the USDA that had absolutely no experience as an actual ... ummm, you know ... "scientist"? So much for hiring the "best and the brightest" in the Trump Administration.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s chief scientist nominee, Sam Clovis, who now serves as the agency’s senior White House adviser, confirmed in an Oct. 17 letter obtained by The Washington Post that he has no academic credentials in either science or agriculture.

But the former Iowa talk radio host and political science professor contended in the letter to the Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry Committee’s top Democrat, Debbie Stabenow (Mich.), that his time teaching and running for political office in the Hawkeye State steeped him in the field of agriculture.

The post for which President Trump has nominated his campaign co-chair — USDA undersecretary for research, education and economics — has traditionally been held by individuals with advanced degrees in science or medicine. The 2008 farm bill specifies that appointees to the position should be chosen “from among distinguished scientists with specialized training or significant experience in agricultural research, education, and economics,” given that the official is “responsible for the coordination of the research, education, and extension activities of the Department.”

Sam Clovis, Trump’s nominee for USDA’s top scientist, confirms he has no hard science credentials | WashingtonPost.com


OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 7, 2017, 09:26 AM
 
Turns out our genius commerce secretary lied about being a billionaire. Another perfect find by Trump.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 3, 2018, 08:37 AM
 
Romney has apparently gotten over his lack of Secretary of State post, and may run for Orrin Hatch's Utah Senator seat. Trump is not happy.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 5, 2018, 05:32 PM
 
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/05/politi...res/index.html
Vice President Mike Pence's chief lawyer and domestic policy director are leaving his office at the beginning of the New Year, according to four sources familiar with the staff turnover.
Paoletta and Meeks' departures follow two other top Pence aides who have left the Office of the Vice President: chief of staff Josh Pitcock and press secretary Marc Lotter.
Chief of Staff, Chief Counsel, and Press Secretary are pretty much every top position. All that gone in a month is ****in' crazy. (And fuel for wild speculation)
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 5, 2018, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Romney has apparently gotten over his lack of Secretary of State post, and may run for Orrin Hatch's Utah Senator seat. Trump is not happy.
I can't wait to see him grimace while voting along party lines.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 5, 2018, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I can't wait to see him grimace while voting along party lines.
If he and Trump are as friendly as everyone thinks maybe Romney will vote against just to piss him off.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Thorzdad
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Jan 6, 2018, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If he and Trump are as friendly as everyone thinks maybe Romney will vote against just to piss him off.
Maybe. Though, the way most of the GOP seem to eventually fall into line with him (even while expressing reservations), it's almost as if Trump has serious dirt on everyone in Congress. Like he's being fed information from some...I dunno...foreign intelligence service or something...
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 13, 2018, 11:35 PM
 
https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/951997694117142529?
Scoop: Teresa Manning — the anti-abortion activist who was put in charge of Title X — was physically escorted from HHS premises today.
Manning had served in her role for less than nine months. Her replacement, Valerie Huber, is an advocate for abstinence education.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 7, 2018, 02:57 PM
 
Out of curiosity, subego, between the dead soldier flap and reportedly killing bipartisan immigration reform, do you still see Kelly as one of the adults in the room, a la, Mattis & McMaster?
     
subego
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Feb 7, 2018, 06:50 PM
 
I wasn’t super critical of the dead soldier thing. I think he made a stupid mistake.

I actually have no idea why he killed reform, so that doesn’t push me either way.

I’m bothered more at the moment by supporting Porter, and being unable to coordinate a better Puerto Rico situation.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 7, 2018, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I wasn’t super critical of the dead soldier thing. I think he made a stupid mistake.

I actually have no idea why he killed reform, so that doesn’t push me either way.

I’m bothered more at the moment by supporting Porter, and being unable to coordinate a better Puerto Rico situation.
He appears to be letting his views of immigration take precedence over whatever Trump wants. There's been some behind the scenes reporting that paints him very poorly, but I feel like his commenting that bipartisan reform should include Tom Cotton gives it some serious credence.

Not sure how PR relates to him.

His support of Porter is what made me bring it up, but the backstory that WH has known for months makes it so much worse.

I don't even know what positive things he's done at this point.
     
subego
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Feb 7, 2018, 08:24 PM
 
Well, it seems like a more disciplined outfit than it was under Priebus and Bannon. I guess that’s a positive.

With regards to Puerto Rico, if Kelley cared, I think we’d be more on top of it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 7, 2018, 08:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Well, it seems like a more disciplined outfit than it was under Priebus and Bannon. I guess that’s a positive.
Lowering the bar. I'm also not sure a more competent Trump Admin is positive for me.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
With regards to Puerto Rico, if Kelley cared, I think we’d be more on top of it.
Not sure I consider PR his responsibility, but uh, feel free to read into why he doesn't care about Puerto Ricans
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 7, 2018, 09:00 PM
 
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...=sharebutton-t
On October 7, 2016, hours after the Washington Post published the Access Hollywood tape, Shah contacted Hemming to say the story was “justice.”

At 10:57 p.m., he wrote, “u wanna hear something a little ****ed up?” Hemming responded, “Sure.”

“I’m kinda enjoying this, some justice. I honestly don’t think it’s the worst thing he’s done but he somehow got passes for the other acts.”

Shah added, “Trump is a deplorable.”
     
subego
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Feb 7, 2018, 09:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm also not sure a more competent Trump Admin is positive for me.
This is a question I struggle with.
     
subego
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Feb 8, 2018, 12:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Lowering the bar.
I didn’t really make the comment in the spirit of defense, just trying to give a straight answer to the question.

The bar can remain in place, and this can be considered not enough to meet it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 8, 2018, 05:44 PM
 
I'd like to point out that if Tillerson were really leaving it have happened by now.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 8, 2018, 05:47 PM
 
“When I was a kid growing up, a lot of things were sacred in our country,” he said. “Women were sacred, looked upon with great honor.”
Words from a man who had a wife beater in his employ, and knew of the allegations. **** him.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Feb 8, 2018, 06:29 PM
 
link/relevance/who?

I mean, I can guess, but... ah here we go:
https://theslot.jezebel.com/john-kel...t-a-1819694772
     
subego
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Feb 8, 2018, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Words from a man who had a wife beater in his employ, and knew of the allegations. **** him.
I don’t want to rush to judgement. I have no idea whether this guy is guilty.

What I do know is Kelly’s resolve to protect him evaporated the second it became public.

This can’t be spun positively. Kelly either abandoned the innocent or protected the guilty.
     
subego
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Feb 8, 2018, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
who?
Rob Porter. Presidential assistant who got summarily ganked yesterday.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 8, 2018, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What I do know is Kelly’s resolve to protect him evaporated the second it became public.

This can’t be spun positively. Kelly either abandoned the innocent or protected the guilty.
It's pretty clear to me Kelly is an ends justify the means guy. If he, too, like Trump believes in loyalty, then his behavior makes even more sense.

This is why I'm out on him. The longer he's around the more he reminds me of the man he serves.
     
subego
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Feb 8, 2018, 10:30 PM
 
I expect a (former) General to think in terms of the ends justifying the means.

I also expect a (former) General to have foresight.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 10, 2018, 07:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I expect a (former) General to think in terms of the ends justifying the means.
I feel like there's a semantic disagreement here on what I meant, but I'm not going argue it because FML on something so minor.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I also expect a (former) General to have foresight.
I expect a human being to have some ****ing empathy.

He's a liar. Reports are he was trying to get WH staff to lie about the timeline on the firing/resignation and we already caught him lying about Frederica Wilson's speech.

'A remember a time when conservative men held themselves accountable.' (no I don't)
     
 
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