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Trump's Cabinet of Deplorables: Now with 33% fewer memes! (Page 6)
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2017, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is he a bigger piece of shit than Gonzales?
Hmmm, the torture thing , right? Probably not, but he's probably worse for Americans.
     
subego
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Jan 10, 2017, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is he a bigger piece of shit than Gonzales?
Reno didn't bug me except for killing cultists, but I admit I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2017, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
That Holder is a POS?
I think his implication was both were.
     
subego
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Jan 10, 2017, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Hmmm, the torture thing , right? Probably not, but he's probably worse for Americans.
What's the specific beef?

Sessions and myself don't see eye-to-eye when it comes to immigration, so I'm not going to like what he does in that department, but I don't know if that makes him a piece of shit. The position "illegal immigration should be unacceptable" isn't really flawed reasoning.

I mean, I'd be much more comfortable if we had a just immigration system, and I could then simply agree with the idea illegal immigration should be unacceptable.

The position I have now, which is our system is so unjust it should be de facto acceptable to break the law, is... kinda loosey-goosey. Not everyone is going to be willing to go along with that. The recent election showed a good many strongly desire the opposite.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
on my phone so I can't quote but he pretty much thinks racism is dead, the VRA is unnecessary, discrimination doesn't happen, weed is bad, porn is bad, civil forfeiture is ok, and Blue Lives Matter.

That a good place to start from?
     
subego
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Jan 10, 2017, 03:10 PM
 
Didn't even realize he was being confirmed. Well, we'll get transcripts to parse soon.

I read through the ABC live blawg of the hearing, and got a somewhat lesser piece of shit vibe. At the least, his positions on some of the above issues came off as somewhat less absolute.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2017, 03:50 PM
 
Reading an article he's apparently not a fan of early voting or same day registration. He's a walking voter suppression machine.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2017, 04:03 PM
 
Also you didn't tell me if I was right about your beef with Gonzales
     
olePigeon
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Jan 10, 2017, 05:25 PM
 
Anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has accepted a position within the Trump administration, where he will chair a group evaluating vaccine safety and scientific integrity.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
subego
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Jan 10, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
Holy shit... hey there oP!
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 10, 2017, 06:10 PM
 
We're living in Oppositeland, folks. (hi OlePigeon!)
     
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Jan 10, 2017, 06:12 PM
 
Interesting ....

In 1986, as the Senate was considering the nomination of Jefferson Beauregard Sessions for federal judge, Coretta Scott King wrote an impassioned plea to the members of the Judiciary Committee.

Sessions, whose nomination had initially seemed routine, was suddenly on the ropes after witnesses accused him of using racial slurs and using his position as a US attorney to target civil rights activists in Alabama.

The letter would become a key part of the case against Sessions, who would ultimately be defeated when his home state senator, the late Howell Heflin, shocked the Senate and voted against the confirmation.

Judiciary Committee Chairman Strom Thurmond never put the letter into the congressional record, and its contents are largely unknown. But in the only line that has been made public — published in June 1986 by Knight Ridder reporter Aaron Epstein — King made clear her opposition to Sessions’ nomination.

“For a century, the racial practices that characterized our region were established and enforced by men who, like Mr. Sessions, protested that they, too, were not personally hostile to blacks,” King’s letter said, according to Epstein’s dispatch.


Now Sessions, who would go on to become Alabama’s attorney general before replacing Heflin in the Senate in 1997, is once again before the Senate for confirmation, this time as President-elect Donald Trump’s attorney general.

It’s unclear why Thurmond didn’t include the letter in the record. Although senators and their staff on the committee have seen the letter, it remains unreleased. Chairman Chuck Grassley’s office did not respond to requests for the letter, and sources told BuzzFeed News that Democratic members’ hands are tied by committee rules that give Grassley the sole authority to release it.


Additionally, the King Center, the Atlanta-based memorial and nonprofit that manages Coretta Scott King’s papers as well as those of her late husband, said it has not finished processing her papers and could not provide a copy of the letter. Epstein, the reporter who obtained a copy in 1986, told BuzzFeed News he no longer has a copy and could not recall details of its contents beyond what was printed at the time.

It’s unlikely King’s testimonial alone would derail Sessions’ nomination: The Senate rarely rejects nominations for one of its own, and with Republicans controlling the chamber, it appears likely he will be installed at the Department of Justice.

But the letter would certainly prove embarrassing for Sessions.


Sessions’ 1986 defeat deeply wounded the Alabama conservative, and as a senator he made a point of backing a number of civil rights measures, particularly those connected to King. For instance, he sponsored legislation to give King and Rosa Parks the Congressional Gold Medals, backed a bill to place a statue of Parks in the US Capitol, and voted for a 2006 reauthorization of the Civil Rights Act named after King.

Following King’s death in 2006, Sessions lauded her, saying in a statement that it “marks yet another sad passing of an historic leader in the movement for equal rights in America.”

Release of the full letter could raise difficult questions for Sessions and his supporters, who have used his backing of these and other measures as evidence that the 1986 charges of racism are false.
Letter Written By MLK’s Widow That Blasted Jeff Sessions Is Missing

OAW
     
subego
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Jan 10, 2017, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Also you didn't tell me if I was right about your beef with Gonzales
Torture, putting the screws to John Ashcroft while he's barely conscious in the hospital, and claiming they needed to do an end-run around the FISC because it was too much paperwork otherwise.

Paperwork? Too much paperwork?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 09:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Torture, putting the screws to John Ashcroft while he's barely conscious in the hospital, and claiming they needed to do an end-run around the FISC because it was too much paperwork otherwise.

Paperwork? Too much paperwork?
I forgot about the Ashcroft thing. Shady shit.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 10:03 AM
 
Out of curiosity, what do our resident conservatives think of Tillerson? What do you see as his qualifications for SOS?
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 11:34 AM
 
I'm disappointed he's not Romney or Petraeus.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm disappointed he's not Romney or Petraeus.
You don't count, Libertarian. Well, unless you have a hot take.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You don't count, Libertarian. Well, unless you have a hot take.
I have a more general hot take.

Considering how much I hate prosecutors, I reflected upon why I'm not going for Sessions' jugular.

I feel it may be blowback from positioning Trump as an apocalyptic nightmare.

After all that buildup, when Trump picks a general issue Republican to fill a cabinet position, my feeling is "whew... dodged a bullet".

Sessions is about as general issue as you get. I wouldn't bat an eye if Cruz was president and picked Sessions. If you dump the immigration, Jeb! or Rubio could have picked him.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
That's representative of how bad the GOP has gotten, not Trump's more moderation.

You don't find Session's voting rights views to be a stark departure from past administrations? He has the power to undermine the entire election system through inaction if not worse.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 01:29 PM
 
It may be a departure from past administrations, but it is resolutely not a departure from Republican SOP over the last 8 years.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 01:40 PM
 
So that somehow makes him reasonable?
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 01:40 PM
 
It makes him par for the course.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 01:59 PM
 
And when Trump makes par, rather than hooking it into the minefield as per expectation, my knee-jerk reaction is a golf clap.

I'm not saying that's "correct", it's merely an observation about my own psychology at the moment.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 11, 2017, 02:04 PM
 
The presidency should not be a "lowered expectations" ad.

     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
The presidency should not be a "lowered expectations" ad.

I fully admit this impression may be bias on my part, but I feel it was the Democrats who lowered my expectations.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It makes him par for the course.
He is not par for the course. His entire resume shows him to be eminently qualified to enact the worst extremes of current GOP orthodoxy. Don't confuse his position in the establishment with his being the norm. He's still fringe. What current senators would be worse?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
And when Trump makes par, rather than hooking it into the minefield as per expectation, my knee-jerk reaction is a golf clap.

I'm not saying that's "correct", it's merely an observation about my own psychology at the moment.
Your psychology is deeply flawed then. You say he's par for the last eight years, but even if that were true, that requires one to accept that standard as passable. It shouldn't be.

With where you're at now, so long as Trump doesn't start WWIII you'd consider him a success. That's been the problem all along - people keep lowering the bar for him like his lack of brains or experience should somehow mitigate the expectations and responsibilities of the job.

There's cutting someone slack and then there's letting him off the hook.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
He is not par for the course. His entire resume shows him to be eminently qualified to enact the worst extremes of current GOP orthodoxy. Don't confuse his position in the establishment with his being the norm. He's still fringe. What current senators would be worse?
Has this expanded from a discussion of voting rights?

The Republican norm is to jack people's voting rights. I stand firm on this.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2017, 03:48 PM
 
Did you ignore all the other objections I put around mentioning voting rights?

Oh, add police oversight to the list. He thinks corrupt departments shouldn't enter agreements with the DOJ.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Your psychology is deeply flawed then. You say he's par for the last eight years, but even if that were true, that requires one to accept that standard as passable. It shouldn't be.

With where you're at now, so long as Trump doesn't start WWIII you'd consider him a success. That's been the problem all along - people keep lowering the bar for him like his lack of brains or experience should somehow mitigate the expectations and responsibilities of the job.

There's cutting someone slack and then there's letting him off the hook.
I'm deeply flawed in numerous ways.

I think at least some of the responsibility for why I'm lowering the bar is because of the excessive hyperbole employed during the campaign. Trump was painted as a frothing, fascist madman. When those expectations are met with mere "asshole-wing Republican" behavior, I do in fact feel something of a sense of relief.

I can't give you a worse Senator, but I can think of worse choices. At least Sessions won't be Trump's servile puppy.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Did you ignore all the other objections I put around mentioning voting rights?

Oh, add police oversight to the list. He thinks corrupt departments shouldn't enter agreements with the DOJ.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

This was the question I was responding to... it was given it's own post.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You don't find Session's voting rights views to be a stark departure from past administrations? He has the power to undermine the entire election system through inaction if not worse.
I'll address anything you want, but I'm not going to tolerate getting slagged for constraining my answer to what was asked in the post I'm replying to.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2017, 11:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh, add police oversight to the list. He thinks corrupt departments shouldn't enter agreements with the DOJ.
Let's take this one here.

He said "this is what I dislike about consent decrees".

I dislike the same things about consent decrees.

Will he push his dislike farther than I would? I'd put money on it.

Will he push his dislike too far? I'd put money on that too.

But goddamit... he didn't say what you said he said.
     
subego
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Jan 12, 2017, 12:51 AM
 
In giving my analysis of his position on consent decrees, I neglected to answer the framing question.

Is being iffy on consent decrees, perhaps too iffy, a fringe Republican position?

I honestly don't know. I don't think people have been asking.

Now that they are, I know how I'd bet.
     
subego
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Jan 12, 2017, 12:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
porn is bad
This is in the freakin platform.

Everyone made fun of it.

Both strong indicators of mainstreamedness.
     
subego
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Jan 12, 2017, 01:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
he pretty much thinks racism is dead
This is a fringe Republican position?

I think it's weird I'm the one ascribing a whole lot more negative shit to mainstream Republicanism.
     
subego
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Jan 12, 2017, 01:32 AM
 
I think I've shoved enough down your throat for one evening, but let me just add the part where Bush tried to be moderate on immigration and his own party told him to pound dirt, so I don't really put Sessions being a cock monkey about immigration outside the window of mainstream Republicanism either.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 12, 2017, 02:01 PM
 
Quick response since this has escalated beyond my ability to manage on a phone:
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is in the freakin platform.

Everyone made fun of it.

Both strong indicators of mainstreamedness.
You make a good point here.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is a fringe Republican position?

I think it's weird I'm the one ascribing a whole lot more negative shit to mainstream Republicanism.
To be so public about it, yes. Remember 10 years ago the VRA was passed by congress with virtually no opposition.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 12, 2017, 03:42 PM
 
I understand some of the discomfort with Mattie by the Democrats, but voting against the waiver is just bitterness. Mattie is a pretty solid pick.

That said, Trump did thumb his nose at precedent by canceling the waiver hearing. But there are bigger and worse things to worry about.
     
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Jan 12, 2017, 03:47 PM
 
He's an appointment I'm resolutely happy about.
     
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Jan 12, 2017, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To be so public about it, yes. Remember 10 years ago the VRA was passed by congress with virtually no opposition.
I'm looking up the 2006 reauthorization, and the first hit from the Goog is how Jeb! thinks it's time to put a fork in it.

Not exactly conclusive, but I found it notable.
     
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Jan 15, 2017, 12:45 PM
 
I've been watching Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath. I get the impression the Democrats have embraced Scientology becuase what they are doing during the conformation hearings sounds like they are following L.Ron Hubbard's "Fair Game" policy. They label everyone an "SP" AKA a suppressive person.
     
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Jan 15, 2017, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He's an appointment I'm resolutely happy about.
IMHO he is Trump's best pick by a long shot. Although for philosophical reasons I would prefer a civilian heading the DoD, I don't think it is smart to put dogma first here — especially if you compare Matthis to the others. Tillerson's claim not to have discussed Russia with Trump is absolutely ludicrous: Are you kidding us? Even if we take his word for it, the alternative is at least as disturbing. No matter what your position on Russia is, you can't claim it's not an important political topic right now.

The other thing that is strange and obvious is how big the gulf between Trump's (apparent) positions is and the opinions held by the appointee. Matthis has a very strict stance against torture (something I value a lot), for example. The policy positions of his pick for Secretary of Health and Human Services directly contradict Trump's ideas on what bits of the ACA to keep.
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subego
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Jan 15, 2017, 10:30 PM
 
The DoJ just came down hard on Chicago. No consent decree, but there's a threat.

And it's a situation where I can at least sorta see Sessions' point.

Morale was already an utter disaster. This is going to make it worse.

Does poor morale mean all the people who the CPD abuse can go **** themselves? Absolutely not. However I would feel the inclination to make sure public humiliation is literally the only remaining option there is to deal with this utter disaster of a police department before I throw down.
     
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Jan 16, 2017, 12:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Does poor morale mean all the people who the CPD abuse can go **** themselves? Absolutely not. However I would feel the inclination to make sure public humiliation is literally the only remaining option there is to deal with this utter disaster of a police department before I throw down.
What other option was there, Constitutional Rights abuses were rampant, e. g. a shadow police station where suspects were “pre-booked” (i. e. they weren't booked, were without legal representation, and were subject to abuse)? I have very little sympathy for the CPD and other police departments with rampant abuse problems.
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Jan 16, 2017, 12:44 AM
 
It's not about sympathy. It's about, as a resident, needing the police to do their job. Over the last year their ability to do so has been (literally) shot all to hell. This is going to make that worse before it's going to make it better.

Is there some other solution? I honestly have no idea. I could spend a month of research on that and maybe get a better lock. If this is in fact the best solution available, then so be it. The city takes the hit for the team.
     
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Jan 16, 2017, 12:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It's not about sympathy. It's about, as a resident, needing the police to do their job. Over the last year their ability to do so has been (literally) shot all to hell. This is going to make that worse before it's going to make it better.
Yes, and it's sometimes necessary for things to get worse before they get better.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is there some other solution? I honestly have no idea. I could spend a month of research on that and maybe get a better lock. If this is in fact the best solution available, then so be it. The city takes the hit for the team.
It is the citizens who decide what kind of policing they want to have, and it will take years and years for the system to turn around. Right now there are plenty of “old school” cops who either don't know how they are supposed to do their job or are even nostalgic for the good old days.

Session's point that we criticize the poor cops too much forgets that in such a system we are disincentivizing good cops who want to play by the rules by turning a blind eye. I see this as a weak point in Session's argument. With Sessions the more interesting question is about the legalization of pot: up until now he presents himself as a big state's rights crusader, and it would have been interesting to see whether he's willing to break over that when it comes to pot and immigration.
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Jan 16, 2017, 01:08 AM
 
I think it's possible Sessions' argument is a little more nuanced than that.

What I came here to add is I find the timing suspect. It smacks of wanting to get it out the door lest a Sessions DoJ do... whatever with it.

What I got from Sessions' responses was at the least the Justice Department should have gone to the CPD and laid the cards on the table. If they don't take the opportunity to fix things privately, then heads get peeled.

If that's what happened, then the DoJ is 100% in the right. I'm somewhat (though not definitively) skeptical that is what happened though.
     
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Jan 16, 2017, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think it's possible Sessions' argument is a little more nuanced than that.
His hearing is public, so why do you use hypotheticals here? Sessions attributes crime spikes in certain urban centers to “cops who are afraid to do their job”. (see also here for a more rounded summary).
Originally Posted by Jeff Sessions
We need to be sure that when we criticize law officers, it is narrowly focused on the right basis for criticism. And to smear whole departments places those officers at greater risk.

[...]

Morale has been affected, and it's impacted the crime rates in Baltimore and crime rates in Chicago. I don't think there's any doubt about it.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What I got from Sessions' responses was at the least the Justice Department should have gone to the CPD and laid the cards on the table. If they don't take the opportunity to fix things privately, then heads get peeled.

If that's what happened, then the DoJ is 100% in the right. I'm somewhat (though not definitively) skeptical that is what happened though.
How is the DoJ supposed to lay the cards on the table without making an investigation? From a political perspective, the necessity of a federal probe is already a punishment in and of itself, if the DoJ initiates an investigation, it's by definition public (at the very least some info will leak to the press). The large-scale investigation was prompted by the results of the DoJ looking into one specific case.

That sounds pretty reasonable: instead of making wild accusations, they started with one specific case where the misconduct could have been due to just one individual. But the investigation brought facts to light that indicated a pattern, which initiated a larger investigation. Session's argument seems to be that just looking into wrongdoing has a negative impact on morale and should therefore be avoided.
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 16, 2017, 12:34 PM
 
Rand Paul says he was very impressed by Tillerson and I have no idea what he's referring to.
     
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Jan 16, 2017, 01:24 PM
 
Am I the only one who keeps thinking "Tea for the Tillerson"?
     
 
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