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Asymmetric Polarization or Cult of Personality
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 07:11 PM
 
Since subego makes a valid case. Might as well make a thread to hold my favorite graphs/polls.

Today: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000004
https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/sta...86358798733312
Clinton voters who believe accusations against
Weinstein: 77%
Trump: 83%

Trump voters
Weinstein: 66%
Trump: 8%
Trump voters less likely to believe Weinstein's accusers than Democrats.
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 10:29 PM
 
Trump voters are going to lean more towards the patriarchy, no?
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2017, 01:47 AM
 
Question about the football thing...

If a "kneeling epidemic" broke out in the NFL, and Trump had nothing to do with it, wouldn't there be a significant demographic pissed at the NFL for not immediately enforcing an "America, **** yeah" policy?
     
Paco500
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Oct 21, 2017, 06:55 AM
 
The short answer, I think, is yes, as Kaepernick got quite a bit of blowback and I have no real recollection of Trump being a factor in it.

However, the real question, and I think we know the answer to it, is would a kneeling epidemic have broken out if Trump had nothing to do with it?
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2017, 11:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
However, the real question, and I think we know the answer to it, is would a kneeling epidemic have broken out if Trump had nothing to do with it?
That's certainly a question, and a valid one, but I think the "real" question in terms of the topic is whether these people...



...have their own opinion or are a bunch of monkeys who will dance to whatever tune Trump plays.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 21, 2017, 01:10 PM
 
I just started watching The Handmaid's Tale and the part I'm having most difficulty in believing in terms of getting from where the world is now to where it is in the show, is that in the show the oppressive forces of whatever the place is calling itself seem to be quite multiracial. I'm inclined to think that the religious nutters using infertility as an excuse to re-subjugate women would have worked some ethnic cleansing in while they were at it. Otherwise, its entirely believable. Maybe even likely.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Paco500
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Oct 21, 2017, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's certainly a question, and a valid one, but I think the "real" question in terms of the topic is whether these people...



...have their own opinion or are a bunch of monkeys who will dance to whatever tune Trump plays.
It think Trump’s politics are primarily a reflection of his ‘base’ rather than the other way around. He’s just providing someone to galvanise around.

So no, I don’t think they needed Trump. But someone has to lead the band.
     
Paco500
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Oct 21, 2017, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I just started watching The Handmaid's Tale and the part I'm having most difficulty in believing in terms of getting from where the world is now to where it is in the show, is that in the show the oppressive forces of whatever the place is calling itself seem to be quite multiracial. I'm inclined to think that the religious nutters using infertility as an excuse to re-subjugate women would have worked some ethnic cleansing in while they were at it. Otherwise, its entirely believable. Maybe even likely.
In the source novel, ethnic purity was part of it. The producers have said they took that part out because they felt it would be more believable if reproduction trumped racism. I’m inclined to think they just wanted to cast talented minority actors. They certainly didn’t want to be accused of racism themselves.
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2017, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
It think Trump’s politics are primarily a reflection of his ‘base’ rather than the other way around. He’s just providing someone to galvanise around.

So no, I don’t think they needed Trump. But someone has to lead the band.
No question... but Dakar said it was partisanship, I countered with it being cult of personality.

I'm beginning to think it's neither.
     
OAW
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Oct 21, 2017, 03:17 PM
 
Trump has mastered the “Politics of White Resentment”. Whether he’s a true believer himself or merely an opportunist exacerbating such sentiment for political gain or both is neither here nor there. There has never been an era in the history of this country when the vast majority of white Americans did not view any civil rights oriented protests by black Americans negatively. It ain’t about the flag. It ain’t about veterans. It’s about These issues make me uncomfortable so will you please stop? at best ... and Shut up n*gger and just play ball! at worst. Such sentiments certainly don’t exist because of Trump. He’s definitely emboldened those who hold them to be more open about it in the public square. But he’s not the cause.

OAW
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2017, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Trump voters are going to lean more towards the patriarchy, no?
Is this a nice way of saying, "More likely to be sexist?"

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Question about the football thing...

If a "kneeling epidemic" broke out in the NFL, and Trump had nothing to do with it, wouldn't there be a significant demographic pissed at the NFL for not immediately enforcing an "America, **** yeah" policy?
Isn't that what we went through last year?
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2017, 06:15 PM
 
I admit, I'm not a sports person, so I wasn't paying attention.

I thought the stuff from last year was just Kaepernick.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 21, 2017, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
In the source novel, ethnic purity was part of it. The producers have said they took that part out because they felt it would be more believable if reproduction trumped racism. I’m inclined to think they just wanted to cast talented minority actors. They certainly didn’t want to be accused of racism themselves.
The key word here being 'Trumped'.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2017, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I admit, I'm not a sports person, so I wasn't paying attention.

I thought the stuff from last year was just Kaepernick.
He wasn't even the only person on his team doing it.
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2017, 08:57 PM
 
Did it continue once he got ganked?
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2017, 01:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is this a nice way of saying, "More likely to be sexist?"
I guess?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2017, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Did it continue once he got ganked?
I'm not sure what you're asking, but my non-NFL watching recollection his he played the entire season then opted out of his contract in the offseason.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2017, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm beginning to think it's neither.
What does that make it? Coincidence?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 30, 2017, 05:33 PM
 
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/925084467680641024
A month ago we found 41/29 Trump voters thought Russia wanted Hillary to win the election. On our new poll tomorrow it's now 56/18 on that
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 31, 2017, 07:29 PM
 
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...should-stay-in
According to a new poll from the Democratic-leaning firm Public Policy Polling, 79 percent of people who voted for President Trump say he should remain even if collusion is proven, and 75 percent said the entire Russia story is “fake news."

However, the poll found that 49 percent of all Americans support impeaching Trump, a record high result for the firm.

Only 7 percent of Trump voters say they believe that members of the campaign team colluded with Russia.
Yes, it's liberal leaning, so I take their polls with a grain of salt, but even if they did something as nefarious as double the polling outcome, there's no world where even 40% of Trump voters thinking that isn't outrageous.

I can't make a distinction on the tribalism vs. cult aspect because there's no control.
     
subego
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Nov 2, 2017, 02:12 AM
 
Have to register my grievance with The Hill.

The poll question is should Trump resign if collusion is proven, not whether he should remain.

More importantly however...

Originally Posted by PPP
Pumpkin Spice lattes get a 25/49 favorability rating with disdain for them carrying across party lines
     
subego
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Nov 2, 2017, 05:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What does that make it? Coincidence?
I kinda lost my train of thought here, but I think the idea I was going for is what caused this group to flip on the NFL was the kneeling becoming a league-wide issue.

They would have flipped if Trump had nothing to do with it.

Back when it was a smaller issue, there were still people bitching about it. I imagine these are the same people. I didn't play particularly close attention, but did the league get pipe back when that was happening?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 7, 2017, 05:46 PM
 

     
Chongo
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Nov 8, 2017, 03:47 PM
 
Speaking of cults, more from Donna Brazile.
     
Laminar
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Nov 8, 2017, 08:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Speaking of cults, more from Donna Brazile.
Would you care to summarize the video and provide some of your own insight?
     
Chongo
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Nov 8, 2017, 10:08 PM
 
No. Ms Brazile’s words should suffice.
     
Laminar
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Nov 8, 2017, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No. Ms Brazile’s words should suffice.
I can't listen to audio. Feel free to summarize.
     
Chongo
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Nov 8, 2017, 10:29 PM
 
...
SCARBOROUGH: “Bottom line it for us. Why did they lose? Was it, at the end of the day, arrogance?”
BRAZILE: “Yes, Joe. It was a cult, I felt like it was a cult. You could not penetrate them. I mean, I — look, you can — I’m a grassroot organizer. I know street politics better than I know sweet politics. I know how to touch people where they live, work, pray, and play. But I cannot help a candidate, Joe, if I don’t have the resources, if I cannot spend the resources that the party is raising because there’s a blind agreement between —“
BRZEZINSKI: “—Exactly—"
BRAZILE: "— A campaign—"
BRZEZINSKI: "—Unspoken even"
BRAZILE: “—And, again, I want my party to come back from this stronger. I like what Tom Perez is doing. I know he said this is not about my book. Baby, I know it’s not about my book. But it’s about making much-needed changes and reform inside the party. I’ve sat at the table. I want to make room for others to sit at the table, but you have to come into the room knowing you have to change the recipe. Yesterday was a wake-up call for the Democrats, too. Because you know what? It’s coming from the bottom up. It’s not top-down anymore. It’s bottom-up politics now.”
     
Laminar
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Nov 8, 2017, 10:47 PM
 
That's pretty unclear. What's a cult? The Democratic party? Hillary supporters?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 13, 2017, 05:57 PM
 
I count this one as Asymmetric Polarization
http://www.newsweek.com/roy-more-sex...elicals-709015
A plurality of evangelicals — 37 percent — described themselves as more likely to support Moore because of recent sexual assault allegations levied against him, while only 28 percent were less likely to do so.
Do I think evangelicals love pedophile candidates more? No. I read this as a bunch of voters doubling down because they think anything the mainstream says or wants is wrong or bad.
     
Laminar
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Nov 13, 2017, 07:03 PM
 
I call it the Chick-Fil-A effect.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 13, 2017, 11:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I call it the Chick-Fil-A effect.
I get what you're saying, but arguably what Chik-Fil-A did wasn't immoral.

Still, your term probably is a good marker of when the signs started becoming noticeable.
     
Chongo
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Nov 15, 2017, 07:41 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
What does this have to do about Republicans and Democrats?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 30, 2017, 07:14 PM
 
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 30, 2017, 08:47 PM
 
Conclusive proof that Dems are reasonable and Republicans are deluded.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Nov 30, 2017, 08:50 PM
 
No.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 30, 2017, 11:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Conclusive proof that Dems are reasonable and Republicans are deluded.
I don't think better percentages for Democrats here are cause for celebration, there is a lot of work to do.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Dec 1, 2017, 06:07 AM
 
Its a strong indication that partisanship and bias are more one sided than they are made out to be.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 1, 2017, 09:32 AM
 
Which is not what you posted the first time.
     
Laminar
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Dec 1, 2017, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
[image]
     
Waragainstsleep
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Dec 1, 2017, 10:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Which is not what you posted the first time.
I like to paraphrase. Colourfully.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 1, 2017, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I like to paraphrase. Colourfully.
That's Huckabee Sanders level spin
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 13, 2018, 10:54 PM
 
https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/sta...14138545590272
Believe unemployment numbers are higher than reported

2014:
Dems 41%
Ind 64%
Reps 76%

2017:
Dems 45%
Ind 30%
Reps 25%
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 27, 2018, 06:22 PM
 
I don't think this can be called Asymmetric Polarization or Cult of Personality. Self-delusion or plain old hypocrisy, maybe.

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/s...16934322348032
Republicans are now more satisfied with the "moral and ethical climate" of the country than they have been for 8+ years


Pretty interesting the year where they diverge. What happened in 2009? *thinking*
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 27, 2018, 06:25 PM
 
Meanwhile, while conservatives admit he is a 'flawed' man morally...
Republicans say 72 - 22 percent that Trump is a good role model for children.
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2516
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 27, 2018, 08:39 PM
 
Thats the most terrifying thing I've ever heard.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Jan 29, 2018, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Meanwhile, while conservatives admit he is a 'flawed' man morally...

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2516
One of the hypothetical conversions I keep having with myself is where I talk to my dad about who I point my son to as a role model; someone who espouses integrity, honor, faith, character, and everything else my parents worked so hard to teach me as I grew up. Is it the man my dad voted for and continues to support? Or how about Obama, a man he despises? Fun points to bring up would be his outrage twenty years ago over Bill Clinton's sex scandal, and his insistence that "the president sets the moral standard for all American men," and how having a philanderer as a president is damaging to the moral structure of America.

Over lunch while I was out of town for work, my wife basically "came out" to my parents, telling them essentially that we don't hate gay people. My mom tried to get into it over Christmas about how "we believe what the Bible says" but I just nodded and smiled.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 29, 2018, 01:01 PM
 
Coming out about not caring about coming out. I'm surprised this issue didn't get outed in 2014 with the SCOTUS decision.

Regarding difficult conversations I have no advice. Part of me says the conversation might be avoided because this could be a brief bump in the road. The other part of me thinks it might be good to establish an understanding seeing how with the way politics in the country is going.

Some very close friends suffer from being the black sheep politically of both their families, so I hear about this problem fairly regularly.
     
subego
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Jan 29, 2018, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Over lunch while I was out of town for work, my wife basically "came out" to my parents, telling them essentially that we don't hate gay people.
“My son... the freak.”
     
 
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