[GetSome681]

Not sure if anyone knows, but the GeFroce 3 Ti200 will be on sale on friday at best buy for $99. This is a pretty nice price, and is a much better price alternative than the mac version of the GeForce 3. I'm not big into all the discussions of flashing carsd or such to get them to work in the G4, but does anyone know if this card will work? I have a G4 AGP edition. If so, this would probably be a sweet addition for the price and performance it will add. Personally, I really need to dump my ATI Rage Pro 128. Thanks!

[GetSome681]

any help anyone!!! I'm sure I'm not the only one that wouldn't mind having this card work in their G4 for this price....

I don't know of anyone who's tried it, but this spec sheet: http://www.msi.com.tw/products/multi.../spec/8850.htm
makes me think it may be possible.

[Archangel]

Nice, it says it's Mac OS compatible twice. I'd imagine that if you can find something to flash the ROM and put in Mac drivers you'd be good to go. Unfortunately, I know zip about flashing ROMs.

I'd really like to have this card though, especially if it's only $99. Somebody should go buy and try it. If it doesn't work, sell it on eBay.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Archangel ]

[GetSome681]

Well I will be going on friday to get this, and try and see what I can do. I would really like this card to work, so we'll how many questions I can ask afterwards..

PS - there's a cheaper 60 gb hard drive (5400 rpm-eide) on sale friday too at BB...good as a 2nd/3rd/4th drive just to store mp3s on or such...

[itpga]

There are many posts about this on Inside Mac Games. From what I understod it is possible but it dind't sound easy. I don't understand why you should flash the ROM of the card since Macs have support for GeForce3 and GeForce3 Ti 2000 is a upclocked GeForce3 (please correct me if I'm wrong). Even if you must flush the ROM there should be a more easy way to do it then to put in i a PC flash, put in Mac test and so on. Should not Nvidia do a plug & play for this sort of work instead of todays flash & pray.

[Leonard]

I would assume you need to flash it since the firmware is designed to work for PCs and not Macs... ie. whoever makes the card (I assume it's not Nvidia since they only make the chip), has designed it for the PC and not Macs. I'm sure the card is plug-and-play on the PC, as that's what it's designed for. It's another thing plugging it into a Mac, when it was made for the PC, and hoping it will work.

The problem is we need more companies (besides Apple) to design their video cards and provide support for the Mac. We still haven't seen one company design Geforce 3 cards for the Mac and provide cards to work on both platforms (with firmware for both).

[Jason King]

Umm, I'm guessing that you haven't read the web site on this particular card. Do you have any idea how much trouble a company would be in if they were to make an unfounded claim for compatibility? Also, if I remember correctly, I've read on another forum that the nVidia chipsets were not like ATI's as far as the ROM is concerned but that it's just simply a matter of drivers. I have no idea but I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow....provided they don't run out by the time I get there.

Originally posted by Leonard:
<STRONG>I would assume you need to flash it since the firmware is designed to work for PCs and not Macs... ie. whoever makes the card (I assume it's not Nvidia since they only make the chip), has designed it for the PC and not Macs. I'm sure the card is plug-and-play on the PC, as that's what it's designed for. It's another thing plugging it into a Mac, when it was made for the PC, and hoping it will work.

The problem is we need more companies (besides Apple) to design their video cards and provide support for the Mac. We still haven't seen one company design Geforce 3 cards for the Mac and provide cards to work on both platforms (with firmware for both).</STRONG>

[Jason King]

Big Update for you late readers.
http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1050/S...i_overview.pdf

This file states, directly from nVidia that the GF3Ti models ARE Mac compatible.

We shall find out tomorrow!!! Or is it today already?

[Nimisys]

had that Ti200 for a while now (i was a hella early adapter: 3-4 days after the announcement form nvidia i had it in my box)

clocked at 175/200 good to 220/475 stock

just FYI the driver disc has NO mac drivers on it

and nowhere in the doc for the card does it say mac compatible

[itpga]

so I should be able to use the drivers that are in the MacOS X right now for the GeForce 3 Ti series. This is from the Nvidia homepage:

Question:
Will your unified driver architecture support the Macintosh platform?

Answer:
Yes, one of NVIDIA's core technologies is the world's only true forward/backward, and top-to-bottom unified driver architecture. By carefully designing the hardware interface in each chip, and using sophisticated software techniques, NVIDIA continually improves graphics processors while maintaining compatibility with the entire NVIDIA driver base. In fact, each new NVIDIA graphics processor is tested with the "old" drivers, long before the "new" drivers ever run on that chip. In this way, we ensure that GeForce2 MX will support all NVIDIA drivers. All the experience and effort expended in creating the stability and robustness of the Detonator drivers for desktop products is leveraged on our Macintosh.

[KellyHogan]

Originally posted by Jason King:
<STRONG>Big Update for you late readers.
http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1050/S...i_overview.pdf

This file states, directly from nVidia that the GF3Ti models ARE Mac compatible.
</STRONG>

That means you have to buy the Mac version when it comes out. You can't use PC cards in Macs because they have different hardware color processing which is then passed to the software layers which again are different. If you stick a PC card in a Mac you will get nothing but a blank screen or some fuzzy lines.

[roders]

Nimisys, I've just bought a Geforce 3 TI 200 and was wondering how you go about overclocking it.
Could you give m the info or post a URL to an appropriate article on the web?
Cheers

[Burpethead]

ok, so does anyone have a release date for the mac version? TELL!

[roders]

KellyHogan

That means you have to buy the Mac version when it comes out. You can't use PC cards in Macs because they have different hardware color processing which is then passed to the software layers which again are different. If you stick a PC card in a Mac you will get nothing but a blank screen or some fuzzy lines.

Thats not quite true, I think all the opele who have put PC Geforce 2's in the Mac's could prove you wrong!

There are several threads over on the xlr8yourmac.com that deal with GeForce3 flashing swo that they will work in a Mac. I flashed my GF3 a couple of days ago and it works fine, but my GF3 was a "reference" card or one manufactured on the nVidia GF3 spec.

The Ti200 and the Ti500 do not match this spec, but there are people trying to make it work.

I picked up a Ti200 at BB for $99 and that's in my PeeCee while my flashed Visiontek GF3 is in my G4/533DP happily rendering frames in UT!

[Nimisys]

OCing the Ti200: http://www.hardocp.com/articles/video/oc/

save the correct reg hack... run reg hack

go to display settings control panel (you mac guys are going to love ythis) select settings tab, goto advanced... goto the GeForce Ti200 tab... click addtional properties... clock frequencies tab (the reg hack enabled it) click the checkmark... select your new frequencies... press test then the ok buttons.

you may or may not have to increase the AGP voltagewin the bios to get some of the higher frequencies to run ok

as with any OC go slow and benchmark often along the way to check for artifacts...

Alternatly: Powerstrip and NVHack both 3rd party programs allow additional OCing room (Core above 220 for example, and yes you can hit above 220core)but without some "updates" they are shareware.

ALSO at least with my driver disk the Det4's werent included so make sure to got to nVidias web site for the latest drivers as they will help a bunch as well.

[Cake]

Yeah great, you can overclock it, but it still won't run in a G4.

[roders]

That links GREAT Nimisys !
Thanx for replying, also I aplogise to the "Macarati" of these BB, and rest assured I''m going to try and overclock my Cube too (450/100 - 466/133 - 533/133 or possibly higher???) and it's Geforce 2, I just need to find out how to do it! :o

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: roders ]

[itpga]

So now you can buy a GeForce3 Ti 200 for $99 and still you get a GeForce2MX with a mac that costs $2400, a pay extra $300 if you want GeForce3. I really hope that Apple do something about that, G4 or G5, sure it would be nice to have G5 but a GeForce3 Ti 500 would probably do more for performance.

[Orange Luna]

Has anyone tried writing nVidia for answers? I actually know a MacOSX nVidia employee. If someone wants to write them, email me for his eaddress. I have an iMac and am afraid I can't be much other help.

[email protected]

[Archangel]

Maybe I'm not catching something, but there seems to be a great confusion. I've read several reports in this thread that a flashed/unflashed PC GF3 does indeed work in a mac. But there are several who still say it won't work.

Can somebody clear up my confusion? If you actually bought a PC card and got it running in the Mac I would be very happy to know because I desperately need to upgrade my GPUs.

[joe]

Originally posted by roders:
[QB]...rest assured I''m going to try and overclock my Cube too (450/100 - 466/133 - 533/133 or possibly higher???) and it's Geforce 2, I just need to find out how to do it! QB]

I'd be very interested to see that 533/133 clock up Could you post a few photos when you get it going? My 500MHz Cube could use a boost....joe

[Cake]

Originally posted by Archangel:
<STRONG>Maybe I'm not catching something, but there seems to be a great confusion. I've read several reports in this thread that a flashed/unflashed PC GF3 does indeed work in a mac. But there are several who still say it won't work.

Can somebody clear up my confusion? If you actually bought a PC card and got it running in the Mac I would be very happy to know because I desperately need to upgrade my GPUs.</STRONG>

Archangel, If you check the links I listed above you will find that many PC GeForce3's have been flashed with a Mac ROM in a PC and then are removed from the PC and work fine in a Mac (I have one in my G4/533DP right now).

However, the Ti500 and Ti200 have not been successfully flashed and probably are not capable of working in a Mac due to the fact that they do not adhere to the original nVidia GeForce3 spec.

[Archangel]

Thanks, Cake. Any recommendations on which GF3 to buy?

[Cake]

Well, I don't think the manufacturer really matters since people have had success with cards made by Ledtek, Visiontek, Gainward, PowerColor, etc.

You just have to make sure that you get the original, plain old Geforce3 - not a MX, Ti200, Ti500, GeForce3 deluxe or any other variations out there.
I got mine off of ubid.com months ago. It was billed as a "NVIDIA GeForce3 64Mb DDR (NV20) w/ TV-Out" video card, but what I got was a Visiontek GeForce3 card - same spec as the NV20 which is the key.

If you go to Price Watch you can find them for around $250.

[Cake]

Eeek! Look at that post count Archangel.
Quick, post again!

[Nimisys]

Cake, in which way is the VT Ti200 not adhering to nVidia Spec? hell it was on the shelves in under a week from their announcement from nVidia.

both the Ti200 and Ti500 are legitmate Gf3 flavors from nVidia... they don't even have the same sppeds as the vanilla Gf3... the Ti200 is only 175 core and 400 memory... think of it as Gf3MX

[Archangel]

Did Getsome ever get some of that Ti200 lovin'?

[GetSome681]

Originally posted by Archangel:
<STRONG>Did Getsome ever get some of that Ti200 lovin'?</STRONG>

Well well well...I did GetSomeTiLovin...however, I too tried as I could, and didn't really get anything to work...so instead I'm selling it to a friend..too bad..too bad...will probably wait for a new gpu....maybe a nice card will come with the G5 I will buy soon..hehe

[Cake]

Originally posted by Nimisys:
<STRONG>Cake, in which way is the VT Ti200 not adhering to nVidia Spec? hell it was on the shelves in under a week from their announcement from nVidia.

both the Ti200 and Ti500 are legitmate Gf3 flavors from nVidia... they don't even have the same sppeds as the vanilla Gf3... the Ti200 is only 175 core and 400 memory... think of it as Gf3MX</STRONG>

Again! Please follow the links that I posted above for a history of GF3 flashing since last July. The Ti200 and Ti500 are legitmate GF3's, but they do not adhere to the same specs as the original GF3's or the GF3's that Apple sells - I'm not a huge techie, so I'm not exactly sure what the differences are, I'm just trying to point out that the original GF3's flash easily to work in Macs whereas the Ti200 and Ti500 do not as of yet.

I'm only here to pass along information that I thought would help. Here are a few passages of what people have found so far:

From what I've read about the Asus 8200 GeForce 3 card, it doesn't follow the standard nVidia reference design but instead uses its own board layout. This could be why the Mac flasher in the GeForce 2.1.1 update fails to recognize or flash the card. Other GeForce 3 cards including the MSI StarForce 822, Gainward CardExpert, and VisionTek cards are based on the nVidia reference design and may work with the Mac flasher. If the Asus board design is the cause of the problem, I doubt that flashing it in a PC would work either because the Mac ROM from the 2.1.1 update is designed for the Apple OEM card which is also based on the nVidia reference design.

Not all Geforce3 cards can be flashed. It all depends on the memory timings of the memory chips just like the Geforce2mx and also of course the reference design of the board.

So far brett has success with the Asus Geforce3. How bout other people..with Leadtek, Winfast etc?

Ramza, it could be but I'd play it safe and stick the boards that follow nVidia's reference design as jhebert pointed out since Apple's follow's nVidia's ideal spec. He mentioned MSI StarForce 822, Gainward CardExpert, and VisionTek cards. The ASUS not being an exact reference still flashed fine. I'll be buying a VisionTek today, so we'll know how far the flashing magic extends. If all goess well, which it should, then that'll go on to support the GeForce 3 reference design theory that jhebert proposed but still leaves a gray area since ASUS's worked.

If anyone has any specific questions, I'd be happy to post them over on the xlr8yourmac forums since registration is closed and you won't be able to post unless you're already registered.

No, the Ti range is not yet mac compadible. Apple asked us to hold back on this issue. It seems that at the next macworld (Jan is it?), Apple will be standardising the Ti200 across some models - they have been talking a lot to us about the Ti200 card, and have a high level of interest in it. Once they start making their card from our reference design, we will complete our drivers with them. With the firmware shipping on those cards, and 10.2's builtin support (provided its released soon, otherwise we will merge our code for 10.1), you will be able to use your Ti200.

[Cake]

Hmmmmmm, well thanks for that tidbit YPI.