[videian28]

http://www.chait.net/index.php?p=504

I was going to ebay my 20" old cinema and upgrade to the new 20" (it's sexy!)

but I think now I will save a few hundred and get this dell (sad yes I know)

[johnzoidberg]

Cheap yes, but it's still ugly.

Looks like Dell glued on the speakers.

Though it's a steal, I'll take the 20" ACD any day.

[-Q-]

The price is very nice. And Dell uses Samsung screens, so it'll be a quality monitor. But it just can't hold a candle to the nice Apple 20" in terms of looks.

Of course, I may be taking that position b/c I just got one.

[im_noahselby]

I can see Apple lowering the price of their 20" Cinema Display in January. $999 seems like the magic number. Apple needs to do something, as their arent a lot of people out there who are willing to spend more than $1000 for a display (myself included). They dropped the 17" Display from their lineup, and have not re-filled that gap. By lowering the price, they would fix this little dilemna quite a bit.

Noah

[Link]

*pets his 22" cinema display* I AINT TRADING! lol

[michaelb]

BEWARE!

I'd advise looking at them side by side, or if that's not possible, seeing one in one store then quickly going to see the other in another store.

I bought a Samsung 191T without having looked closely at the Apple Cinema Display 20", thinking "the specs are as good if not better and I can save a few hundred dollars."

BIG MISTAKE!

Soon after, one look at the Cinema Display convinced me it was far, far superior and I ended up giving the Samsung to a relative and buying the Cinema 20"... it is just that good.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by michaelb:
Soon after, one look at the Cinema Display convinced me it was far, far superior and I ended up giving the Samsung to a relative and buying the Cinema 20"... it is just that good.

I have heard that Apple tries to justify the price of their displays by saying they reject LCDs that other companies accept for their monitors. I don't know if it's true, but the Apple displays are gorgeous. I have to keep my brightness at 50% otherwise it hurts my eyes.

But I've also used a Dell for the past two years and the display was very good also. Unfortunately, as Dell doesn't sell retail I don't think you'll be able to compare the two.

[Link]

lol the 191T is old. Very old. Whoever suggested that over a cinema 20" was a quack

I did get guilty of suggesting NEC and samsung displays, but those were NOT that old

[michaelb]

Originally posted by Link:
lol the 191T is old. Very old. Whoever suggested that over a cinema 20" was a quack

Yes, *now*. I agree about the quack part, but the Samsung 191T was not old when the Cinema Display 20" was introduced in January 2003 (we're talking plastic bezel, not aluminum, it's otherwise the same display, just as the Samsung/Dells are likely to be very similar to their preceding models).

Many people in these forums were/are saying Apple screens were a ripoff and Samsungs had better specs, etc.

Again, I'd caution anyone against buying anything without first making a side by side comparison. You'll be using this thing for hours a day, and spec sheets DO NOT give the whole story...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by michaelb:
Yes, *now*. I agree about the quack part, but the Samsung 191T was not old when the Cinema Display 20" was introduced in January 2003 (we're talking plastic bezel, not aluminum, it's otherwise the same display, just as the Samsung/Dells are likely to be very similar to their preceding models).

Many people in these forums were/are saying Apple screens were a ripoff and Samsungs had better specs, etc.

Again, I'd caution anyone against buying anything without first making a side by side comparison. You'll be using this thing for hours a day, and spec sheets DO NOT give the whole story...

The 191T is a reasonably good monitor, but it doesn't compete in the same class at all as the 20" Cinema Display. The Samsung 191T really competes more against the 17" Cinema Display, as both are 1280x1024 monitors. (ie. The 191T has the same resolution, but the pixels are just bigger.) The 20" Cinema Display is 1680x1050.

BTW, I think the Samsung 172T 17" LCD bests Apple's 17" Cinema Display. I've always disliked ADC anyway.

[videian28]

my issue (along with the price) is that the form factor of the old 20" cinema eats up alot of desk space, the new 20" cinema and this oh so cheap dell make a big difference..

I think my old 20" cinema and Apple DVI to ADC Display Adapter will be hitting ebay soon, hell maybe I will make it a package with the extra 9600xt my 6800 just replaced

form factor goes along way...as does price

[cmoney]

Of course, with Dell's penchant for discounts and sales, in a few months, you'll be able to buy 2 of these displays for the price of one Apple display!! Yeah, the Apple unit looks awesome, but I don't care THAT much about looks that I'd lose out on an extra display for nearly the same price.

Personally, I've already got the Dell 20" 2001FP so maybe this new display will push the 2001FP price lower so I can buy another!

Don't forget: the Dell also has Analog, S-Video and Composite inputs and PIP so it's a little more versatile than the Apple display.

[videian28]

I am also thinking that, much easier to aquire 2 of these than 2 apple displays

I have the cinema and a 21" trinitron at the moment, and want to get rid of the trinitron as well...but thats down the road till I can afford another 20" flat panel widescreen...dell is bringing that closer

[wuzup101]

I've seen both the new 20" ADC and the 20" Dell ultrasharp side by side at our college's computer store and I can say that I would never spend the extra cash on the ADC over the dell. The Dell picture quality was just as good if not better than that of the ADC. The only thing the ADC has is looks... so if you want to drop and extra 500+ on that be my guest - your money could be spent better elsewhere!

[robby818]

I own several Dell monitors (FP2000, FP1703, FP2001). i give props to dell for doing several things right--1. they include ALL the cables- dvi, vga, component, s video, etc.; 2. no hassle return/exchange policy- i had a couple of dead pixels on my fp 2001 dell sent me a replacement monitor in 2 days along with a pre-paid ups label for my return; 3. unlike a lot of manufacturers dell is pretty conservative in its brightness and contrast measurements; 4. prices are incredible esp with coupons and sales. the fp2001 is currently ~$650- a 20" 1600 x 1200 display. i have the fp2001 in the same room as my G5 with the old adc 20" display. while the old cinema display isn't bad, the fp2001 has noticibly better contrast and brightness. i would expect equal levels of performance from the 2005.

btw- the speakers are optional. the monitor looks better w/o them.

[videian28]

agreed

[mbryda]

I could never, ever bring myself to buy anything from Dell, no matter how cheap. They are the true bottom of the bin in everything they do.

However, if you cringe at the thought of the Apple prices, there are other good alternatives there - Viewsonic, Samsung, Sony, Formac, etc.

If you want to compare, order both and return the one that doesn't work well.

[iREZ]

I just got a used 172T and it's the perfect compliment to my 12" PB, and for $270 it was a steal in my opinion. I also know that it's very comparable to the 17" ACD but it's in a complete different class compared to the new ACD's, those things are tooo gorgeous. Even still, I can't see myself spending that much on display, especially considering I'm next in line to get a free one when my cuz gets rid of his 23" HD ACD (plastic bezel), oh yeah!!

[t500]

Robb818

Glad to hear you are so happy with your Dell moitor. I just odered one. What sold me is the Multi imputs. My G5 can share the same monitor as my xbox. My workspace is shrinking (Stinking Kids) so I need to make the best use of my available space...

[robby818]

Originally posted by t500:
Robb818

Glad to hear you are so happy with your Dell moitor. I just odered one. What sold me is the Multi imputs. My G5 can share the same monitor as my xbox. My workspace is shrinking (Stinking Kids) so I need to make the best use of my available space...

Congrats, you should be very happy. The multi inputs are a really nice feature. Yesterday, I ordered a dell w1900 (19" widescreen lcd tv) and will be using it for viewing HDTV on my home theater pc. wow, this will be my fifth dell lcd in the last three years.

while i really like my dell lcd's (obviously) today I saw the Apple 30" cinema display at my local apple store and I was just in awe. if you havent yet seen one, you have to go see one of these in person in order to truly appreciate the size and image quality.

[Mr. Blur]

I have said it before and I will say it again. I could *never* bring myself to connect anything from Dell to my Mac...nor could I ever bring myself to put even one of my pennies in Michael Dell's pocket - his constant bad-mouthing of Apple - like saying they should give up, close up shop and give the money back to the shareholders - is way out of line...besides - if Apple did that where would he steal his ideas from? I don't care if I pay a few dollars more for a quality product - and I don't even think I would have to do that..there are enough other brands out there without stooping to buying from Dell....to hell with dell I say.

[El_Chupacabra]

I personally could not care less who builds my stuff. "Steve" isn't my friend nor is Dell my enemy. They are just parts of big multinational machines.
No one gave me my Powerbook for free; I had to pay a good chunk of money for it.
It's just a tool, when it gets old I'll sell it or throw it away.
So what if Dell makes this great LCD? I'm getting one for my 12", and kissing my 20" Trinitron bye bye.

[t500]

Well the dell will be sitting next to my DP G4, 12inch Powerbook, 40gb G4 ipod under my Airport Extreme. I like my Apple stuff as much as the next guy. When they rolled out the new LCD's I was so excited. They are beautiful (Love the 30.

I just need the multi input option. How many users have a Desktop and a laptop? Steve should have installed a multi input option....

[michaelb]

Originally posted by El_Chupacabra:
I personally could not care less who builds my stuff. "Steve" isn't my friend nor is Dell my enemy. They are just parts of big multinational machines.

While that's true to an extent, it doesn't take into account the people who work for the respective companies. If you've ever been to an Apple developer conference and met some of the employees, you'd know they are talented and hardworking designers and engineers fully committed to the ideal of creating best of class products and software.

if Apple went under because everyone took the attitude that all multinationals are the same, it's not just the greedy capitalist shareholders who would suffer.

Still, this has nothing to do with monitors. If the Dell monitor is really just as good for half the price (I have my doubts), then buy it!

[Cadaver]

I haven't checked recently, but as of a couple days ago, Dell was selling their 2001FP 20.1" 1600x1200 4:3 display (which is very nice; I have one at the office) for $599.

Two of those would be killer, and essentially the same price as one Apple 20"...

[t500]

Yeah, thats the deal I got. For that price I have to try it. I guess they are trying to clear out space for the new wode displays...

[iPoder]

I just ordered the 2001FP with AS500 sound bar for $655 before tax, and am waiting for delivery.

But Dell just cames out the widescreen version 2005FPW with 12ms response time, 1680x1050 for $680.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&sku=320-4111

I am tempted to change my order, but probably will stick with my order because of the higher resolution, and slightly cheaper price.

Damned, if the new one is as good as ADC 20", and $600 cheaper (same resolution with better response time, more connectors, better brightness and higher contrast), Apple needs to drop the price soon.

[videian28]

wow, 680 not 800, 2 for the price of one apple monitor =/

sorry but this round dell wins (hate to say it)

now to get off my arse and sell my cinema display

[iPoder]

As my friend working in the LCD TV related industry said a few months ago, the LCD panel price crashed in the asia supplier market.

Expect the price of LCD TV to drop further. Dell usually anticipates such price drop and tries to capture the market by reflecting it in price.

Two such panels side-by-side with a powermac will be extremely sweeeet!

[t500]

Thanks for the link to the new monitor. I switched my order. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

Jerr

[videian28]

I just bought one, the price went up a little, $719 from the previous $680, still a damn good deal.

I will post details when I get it.

[iPoder]

Good choice, guys.

I decided to stay with my 2001FP order, simply because it has more pixels (8% more). Wide-screen is nice, but unfortunately a lot of games don't fully support that ratio unless it is hacked.

Too bad that I couldn't compare the screens of 2001FP and 2005FPW side by side, and see the difference of the brightness and contrastness. I don't think the response time 16ms vs. 12ms really makes much different (To clarify further, 2005FPW response time is 16ms from black to white pixel, and 12ms from grey to grey pixel).

Now, only if DELL ships my monitor ALREADY!!! It has been 8 days since I ordered.

PS. I know that it might be too late for you videian28. You actually can save $40 by using a coupon code GCBMDDS79ZD?F8. For other potential buyers, make sure that you go to the site such as http://www.xpbargains.com constantly before you shop at DELL. Sometimes, they posted electronic coupons there.

[videian28]

hehe, I did do a search for dell coupons before I ordered, I must have missed that one

ahh well

and on the game resoloutions, I know for a fact that world of warcraft supports it, and that is currently my only game, more and more games are starting to support these widescreen resoloutions

and my secondary monitor is a 21" trinitron (big sucker)

[iPoder]

The coupon expired yesterday. And I just checked the price of 2001FP, which is also $719 now. It is $100+ more than I paid for (subtracts the AS500 price from my total purchase price).

I don't know whether I like DELL pricing model or not, which fluctuates from day to day, and from week to week. It is good for smart shoppers like us, but it can be a frustrating experience for some non-sophiscated buyers.

I don't like Apple pricing model either (fixed for a long period time until next upgrade cycle). Take ADC 20" pricing for example. The price of $1299 was considered as a good value (not great, but good) two months ago, but it is way overpriced now.

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by iPoder:
As my friend working in the LCD TV related industry said a few months ago, the LCD panel price crashed in the asia supplier market.

Expect the price of LCD TV to drop further. Dell usually anticipates such price drop and tries to capture the market by reflecting it in price.

Hopefully this will mean a $999 ($1299 Cdn) 20" Cinema Display will be announced in January. Apple needs to stay competitive, to stay ahead...

Noah

[iPoder]

Here is the new coupon code '4L479R3L1?$Q44' for Dell LCD monitor.

You will get 2005FPW price down to $680. ($40 cheaper than its advertised price).

The coupon expires on 11/15.

[t500]

I was 10 days into my order for th 2001fp with a delivery date of 11/18. I cnaged my order on the 9th and UPS is scheduled to deliver my 2005FPW on Monday

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by t500:
I was 10 days into my order for th 2001fp with a delivery date of 11/18. I cnaged my order on the 9th and UPS is scheduled to deliver my 2005FPW on Monday

We expect an in-depth review...

[iPoder]

Originally posted by t500:
I was 10 days into my order for th 2001fp with a delivery date of 11/18. I cnaged my order on the 9th and UPS is scheduled to deliver my 2005FPW on Monday

Damn it. When is my order going to be shipped?

[MichiganRich]

Hi guys-
I saw this thread and had to post while it was fresh on my mind. Three days ago, I saw the Dell 20" 2005FPW for the initial $679 sale price, and was tempted to pull the trigger. I sat at my G5 and stewed a bit until the on-line coupons expired, and said 'Oh well, didn't really NEED it anyways'... I investigated a bit further over the next couple days, and then yesterday (Friday the 12th) while at work I was surfing and read about someone putting together the Dell coupons in such a way as to get the 2005FPW down to $634. It was at that moment that I could feel my resistance fade, and I got the ol' debit card out of the pocket. Ordered, should be shipped on the 18th. I will post news as the days go by.
I wanted to explain a few things to people who read these forums, as I feel somewhat qualified to talk about these displays. The tech forums all around the net, in my opinion, have devolved to mainly 14 year old kids arguing about what they've read, and this can spook the average consumer who is looking for maybe some hands-on knowledge. I am the photoshop/mac support/digital imaging guy at a photo studio in southwest Michigan. This job has allowed me to learn, without spending TOO much of my own money, about the Apple 20" and 23" displays. We currently have 3 of the plastic bezel 20"'s, and 2 of the new 23" aluminum (one which is on the fortunate author's desk). While I like the Apple displays, I don't think they are worth the huge premium in price. They all exhibit a lack of definition in the shadows, like any other LCD display short of the $3000 Eizos and the like. The unsettling thing is that 4 out of the 5 of them exhibit a noticeable color and brightness cast side to side, most of them being magenta and lighter on the left third, neutral in the center, and blue to the right. This is after being calibrated and profiled with the latest Gretag-Macbeth gear. The cast is noticeable to me and the photographers, who work with a neutral gray background and try to make color decisions before printing a $110 tabloid proof. Would I care if it was at home, playing SimCity4 and surfing boobies?... no. Do I think this is bad behavior for a monitor that is marketed to professionals and priced accordingly?... yes. I personally own a 17" PowerBook, a 1.6 G5 (jumped when they first came out), a 10GB iPod (back when they were still $400), and a tricked out B&W G3. I think now, and always have, that Apple CPU's are just plain better, and that they are a better value. Particularly now with the G5's, which are built like Rolex spacecraft compared to any PC on the shelf. The CPU's are constructed beautifully and come with tons of software (I'm thinking specifically the iLife stuff) that we Apple users take for granted, but still to this day blow my Windows friends away with ease of use and elegance. To this end, I don't mind paying a premium for the CPU's. Unfortuantely, I don't feel the same about the displays. At home I have a Dell 1901FP 19" LCD, which is the re-badged Samsung 191t. Visually, it is the equal of the Apples at what was at the time HALF the price. It is not ugly or poorly constructed, and it has been giving me great service for years now. I also have an eMachines 15" LCD which came with a CPU bundle at Worst Buy that I purchased so I could A) learn XP to become more well-rounded, and B) blast the crap out of Nazis in Call Of Duty. The eMachines display has a viewing angle, but it's a single angle. Not a range, like +/- 85 degrees. Its more like +/- 0 degrees. When you're in the sweet spot, though, it's a fine display. And ohman so cheap. No dead pixels either. No blotchiness in the backlight.
So, I guess, I just wanted to add my 2 cents, which on the internet are worth less than that, and say the Apple displays need to be looked at for what they are. Competitive in performance but not necessarily in price or value. I'm really looking forward to adding the 2005FPW to my desk setup! I will post what I find out about it when I can, or maybe not depending on how badly the forum kiddies flame this long-winded post.

[videian28]

my eyes are bleeding

[bigg]

Looks like they are starting to ship..

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

http://homepage.mac.com/phaddad/DSCF0056.JPG


mmm very nice even if they are not apple

gw

[videian28]

mine should be here today or tomorrow, will post pics

[t500]

Got my 2005FPW yesterday and it rocks. The screen itself is gorgeous (don�t see any screen door affect). No dead pixels. I'm playing 1942 with no problems. Picture in picture is cool. Picture by picture would be ok if it used the full screen. It breaks each selected input down to a small box....

The case is nice, especially if you didn�t know better. The stand is too big and bulky. The Apple displays look awesome. The dell rocks for the price...

Jerr

[iPoder]

Originally posted by t500:
Got my 2005FPW yesterday and it rocks. The screen itself is gorgeous (don�t see any screen door affect). No dead pixels. I'm playing 1942 with no problems. Picture in picture is cool. Picture by picture would be ok if it used the full screen. It breaks each selected input down to a small box....

The case is nice, especially if you didn�t know better. The stand is too big and bulky. The Apple displays look awesome. The dell rocks for the price...

Jerr

I am jealous as I am waiting for my 2001FP.

More in-depth review will be appreciated!

Questions:
1) When picture-by-picture is used, are signals from all inputs (DVI-D, D-Sub, Components, S-Video) displayed? Or you can choose which two to display side-by-side?
2) Any visible ghost effect you can tell?
3) Do you have anything to compare with in terms of brightness and contrast?

Thx

[t500]

When you do Picture in Picture or Picture By Picture you can select what inputs you wish to display (or compare). The buttons on the front were very easy to figure out. I had my Xbox plugged into the composite and it was ok. I saw much better results when it was hooked up via S-Video or VGA.

I using a 1.8DP 1.5 Gb ram and an ATI 9600 64 meg version. I have not had any problems with ghosting or screen tears. I'm running the monitor with the included DVI-D cable in native resolution (1680 X 1050).

It�s running side my side with my Apple 15inch LCD. The picture looks the same. The letters on the Dell look much crisper, but my 15-inch is at least 3 years old. Brightness and contrast are about the same. I can't tell any difference. I've checked out Dreamweaver and Photoshop and they are both fine.

I ordered the 2001 20inch on 11/2 and it was not suppose to ship until the 18th. I had this one in like 4 days. Love the wide screen. Its very Apple like....

[Cadaver]

I have a 2001FP at the office connected to my G4 and my Latitude D800, and I like it very much. Not quite as bright as I was expecting, but still bright enough.

At home I have an Apple 22" Cinema (1600x1200). The width of the Apple 22" is bigger than the width of the Dell 20" - despite the same horizontal resolution (1600 pixels), the 22" Cinema feels bigger. Don't know if its because the pixels are bigger or if its because of the widescreen format vs. the standard 4:3 of the Dell 20". Anyway, kind of an interesting observation.

But I'm happy with both. Now, two 2001FPs side-by-side would be nice...

[iPoder]

Originally posted by t500:
It�s running side my side with my Apple 15inch LCD. The picture looks the same. The letters on the Dell look much crisper, but my 15-inch is at least 3 years old. Brightness and contrast are about the same. I can't tell any difference. I've checked out Dreamweaver and Photoshop and they are both fine.

Hmm... Interesting. I would think Dell's LCD will look much brighter and more contrasty than Apple 15".

[bigg]

and here is the manual.. if anyone cares

http://support.dell.com/support/edoc...lish/index.htm

[videian28]

I got it 2 days ago, (will post pics when I get some) this is a nice monitor, such a smaller footprint (was coming from an old 20" cinema display) and smaller edges with image quality that is just as good as the apple monitor. At a price thats incredible. You could buy 2 of these for almost the price of one 20" cinema display.

I am very pleased with this purchase, and will add another one somtime down the road