[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I don't see anyone saying that.

The only sense of urgency is if you can return as much HD-DVD stuff as you have even if you just buy BR in 6 months.

Any why you still obsessed with thinking all BR players are $500 when they are $300?

I have until end of January to return my HDDVD player. Am I going to? No. It's less than $200 for a Hidef player. Netflix has over 400 HDDVD titles for rent. So the PS3 is $400 now.

Financially, it makes more sense for me to keep my $170 HDDVD player. Use it for a year or two to watch Hidef movies and HDDVD exclusives. Then when Bluray players drop below $200, I might just grab one.

$370 - Total out of pocket keeping my HDDVD and buying a $200 Bluray in a year or two. Less risk, cause if Bluray doesn't make it, it's $170 lost just for the HDDVD player.

$400 - Return $170 HDDVD player and buy a PS3 for $400. Run risk of losing $400 if both format dies.

[Oversoul]

Live from Toshiba's CES press conference - Engadget

Toshiba really sounds like they were unprepared for this. After canceling their press conference and then rescheduling it, they still only spent 5 minutes total on discussing the HD DVD format (with two of those minutes regurgitating their earlier press release). No real response, just positive spin. No Q&A afterwards.

What really surprises me is that their pie chart shows Toshiba's brand share of HDM hardware is only 49.3%, even excluding PS3 numbers (as they always do).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I have until end of January to return my HDDVD player. Am I going to? No. It's less than $200 for a Hidef player. Netflix has over 400 HDDVD titles for rent. So the PS3 is $400 now.

Financially, it makes more sense for me to keep my $170 HDDVD player. Use it for a year or two to watch Hidef movies and HDDVD exclusives. Then when Bluray players drop below $200, I might just grab one.

$370 - Total out of pocket keeping my HDDVD and buying a $200 Bluray in a year or two. Less risk, cause if Bluray doesn't make it, it's $170 lost just for the HDDVD player.

$400 - Return $170 HDDVD player and buy a PS3 for $400. Run risk of losing $400 if both format dies.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Keep it if you want as it doesn't make any difference to us.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. The new DVD Player.app in Leopard has very, very good upscaling. I'm impressed. Unfortunately, I'm not keen on using a computer for general DVD playback either.

I was going to comment on how good it is. I stuck Highlander in as a test because my copy is a very early DVD that has a not very perfect digital transfer. Well in the new Leopard DVD player the disc has been given new life. The image is sharp and has very good contrast and color. For comparison's sake stick the same DVD in Vista and play it with Windows Media Center. It's drab.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Live from Toshiba's CES press conference - Engadget

Toshiba really sounds like they were unprepared for this. After canceling their press conference and then rescheduling it, they still only spent 5 minutes total on discussing the HD DVD format (with two of those minutes regurgitating their earlier press release). No real response, just positive spin. No Q&A afterwards.

What really surprises me is that their pie chart shows Toshiba's brand share of HDM hardware is only 49.3%, even excluding PS3 numbers (as they always do).

Toshiba never canceled their press conference???

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

How many times are you going to post about people returning HD-DVD items?

I think I am up to 3 now. What is the MacNN official limit?
If there is a news report next week about it can I post it or am I overlimit?

In the 99 pages of this thread I don't think anyone posted the same question more than once. It is 99 pages of original comments here baby!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Toshiba never canceled their press conference???

HD DVD group cancels CES press conference in wake of Warner announcement: daaamn - Engadget HD

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Toshiba never canceled their press conference???

That's not how the press is spinning it. Toshiba canceled their originally scheduled press conference and rescheduled. I think its a fair enough assessment.

HD DVD Promo Group Cancels CES Press Conference

HD DVD group cancels CES press conference in wake of Warner announcement: daaamn

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Dude I really don't think that's what the movie companies care about. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that the goal of any corporation is to reduce the number of people on the payroll as much as possible. I'd be nice if they cared about people and the economy etc but in theory and in truth they only care about money, in fact legally a corporation's primary duty is to maximize profits.

Dude, they care a lot because when unemployment figures rise the stock market gets hurt by that news every time. Higher unemployment and instability on the stock market equals low consumer confidence and lower consumer spending. Everyone gets hurt when retail and manufacturing gets hurt. Those are two of the cornerstones of a strong economy. Brick and mortar sales will always take precedence over digital sales, that's one of the reasons (bandwidth and piracy concerns too) that it took so long for music and film companies to come around to digital distribution.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

When you get into the details of all the arguments against Blu-ray you will notice that it was from little minded people who had bought a Nintendo or an X-Box 360....

A console made them feel insecure about themselves. Rather sad.

Generalize much? You mean the little minded people that bought gaming consoles to.. you know.. play games? Games people WANT to play? Post that schedule of upcoming "gotta haves" for the ps3 again. The saddest thing about this "war" is that you've got people like me having to admit that MS made a better product/platform than Sony. But hey, keep reminding yourself and everyone else trying to ignore you that the PS3 is the greatest bluray devise on the market. Whatever makes you feel better about your $500 movie player.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Dude, they care a lot because when unemployment figures rise the stock market gets hurt by that news every time.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Dude, they care a lot because when unemployment figures rise the stock market gets hurt by that news every time. Higher unemployment and instability on the stock market equals low consumer confidence and lower consumer spending.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If a movie studio or a B&M cuts 50, 500, or even a thousand people from their payroll, it'll barely register as a blip in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, NYT, etc. Besides, a company acting in its own self interest will not think, will our firing of a department signal other companies to do the same? The answer to that is that other companies may or may not follow suit. Their bottom line is going to guide their decision, and for each company respectively. Even if every studio and B&M cut their payroll by the same amount, I doubt it'll even compare to the recent auto industry layoffs for example. And just because CompUSA is closing their doors does not spell the end of other B&Ms.

Brick and mortar sales will always take precedence over digital sales, that's one of the reasons (bandwidth and piracy concerns too) that it took so long for music and film companies to come around to digital distribution.

There will always be a market for entertainment, regardless of the format. Right now, my opinion stands that physical media is a better option over downloads but this may change in a few years when licensing, DRM issues, bandwidth and technologies have been worked out. If that happens, the resources (i.e. jobs) behind that market will merely shift. There may be some jobs cut in the process or there may be more jobs created. Those who lose their jobs will just move on to something else. Especially likely if a new industry emerges to replace the old paradigm. And really, in terms of physical media, they're all pressed overseas anyway; in terms of B&M stores, you're talking about mere retail and service industry jobs -- they'll find something else.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

DRM is going nowhere so get used to it. All the companies shedding DRM for music sales are just doing so for public relations but it will be back because there's nothing wrong with it. It's the organised piracy clans who creating the whoopla against DRM because it makes their job harder.

Did you even read what I said or did you just start typing?

I am perfectly aware DRM for movies will probably go no where.

I also don't think you understand why DRM for music is going away. When the labels demanded DRM from Apple, they failed to foresee the problem of vendor lock in. As a result of their own demands, they allowed Apple to lock in a huge percentage of the market to iPods, and gave Apple a lot of power. Now the music companies are trying to retake that power in the music market. They can't simply switch DRM formats because 75% of the market uses iPods and would be incompatible with a different DRM format. The only way for them to free up Apple's control on the market is to go DRM free. That allows them to compete against iTunes while being able to convert the iPod using market. It doesn't really have anything to do with public relations.

I think the movie companies, having seen what's happened to the music companies, will come up with a standard DRM platform that isn't managed by one movie studio or one distributor. This would prevent one distributor, such as Apple, from taking all the power in the market.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

With rentals coming to iTunes DRM is the only way to do it right otherwise you have to install auto-destruct software to destroy files after the rental period has passed. That type of system could work but wouldn't prevent unrestricted copying and would be worrying to have on any computer if it had bugs.

Errrrr no. You'd invalidate the license, but not the movie file itself. Without a valid license you can't play the movie file. All you'd have to do to play the movie again is buy a new license.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

iPod, Apple TV and iPhone content is also coming to Blu-ray rental discs.

No, it's not. The Bluray committee struck the idea down. Believe me, I was following that pretty closely.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

From the moment you copy it to iTunes you will have 24 hours to watch it or you can click the buy button next to the title to purchase the movie or extend the rental period. This is only possible with Blu-ray because the disk's space allows a full HD movie, HD extras, high quality audio AND finally the HD video file you can copy from the disk to purchase.

That's a pretty elaborate story you have there.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

And that folks is the method that is being chosen for now to deliver HD movies to computers because the online only method consumes massive bandwidth and increases the cost of running ISPs who would pass the cost to subscribers. Until bandwidth improves we will see HD delivered on discs instead of just online.

Again, nothing about what you just said is true, but mmmkay. I can already get HD movies online through XBox Live. So yeah... subscriber bandwidth would seem to be there.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

You don't even hear what you're saying. You can take your digital media player to someone's place regardless of what player they have??? Well I can take my Blu-ray player to someone's place regardless of what player they have too!

Ok, let's compare the two choices. One let's me store tons of different movies on a device I'd normally carry in my pocket and could just pull out any time. The other requires me to carry around a large player and optical disks.

Seriously? You might have as well suggested I just carry around my XBox with my XBox Live content, or maybe just roll around my entire A/V cabinet.

And hey, with content all being hosted on a machine that is world accessible, technically I don't even have to carry anything on me.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Any why you still obsessed with thinking all BR players are $500 when they are $300?

There is no $300 Bluray player anymore. Miss my post on that?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

There is no $300 Bluray player anymore. Miss my post on that?

Fine but there aren't $500 like he keeps saying. You can easily find them for $399 for stand alones.

Even with that Universal said they still had huge growth and sold over HD-DVD despite the price premium.

You should have learnt by now that the price of the player is now what people are concerned about hence why BR has been winning for 12 months.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

There is no $300 Bluray player anymore. Miss my post on that?

$316.31 for a Sony BDP-S300 at Amazon with free shipping. And I saw the BDP-S301 going for less than $300 at my local Costco last week.

And Philips just announced their Profile 1.1 BDP7200 player for $350 list in April (which means it'll likely hit $300 or less after retailer discounting and just general competitive pricing when it debuts or before summer).

Finally, a Blu-ray player that costs less than a PS3: The $350 Philips BDP7200 - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com - CNET Blogs

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"Toshiba vice president of marketing for digital audio and video products Jodi Salley was even more somber.

"As you can imagine, this is a tough day for me," she said as she took the stage. "I fully expected to come here this morning to share with you the successes of the last year of HD DVD, (but) the events of the last few days have shifted the focus of my comments."

Instead of announcing a fourth-generation HD DVD player as expected prior to Warner Bros. announcement on Friday, Toshiba took the opportunity to simply reaffirm its faith in the format, and point out features like Web connectivity and the presence of Ethernet ports on every player, which Blu-ray does not have.

"It is difficult to read pundits declaring HD DVD dead...but we've been declared dead before," Sally said."
Toshiba 'disappointed' over Warner Bros. decision | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

Errrr. I am not sure you're only argument should be "ethernet ports". But whatever.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Instead of announcing a fourth-generation HD DVD player as expected prior to Warner Bros. announcement on Friday, Toshiba took the opportunity to simply reaffirm its faith in the format, and point out features like Web connectivity and the presence of Ethernet ports on every player, which Blu-ray does not have.

I know the Toshiba press conference dedicated a lot of time to discussing their HDTVs, but were they expected to debut fourth-generation players? If so, and Toshiba did not, I wonder if Toshiba has reevaluated their future in the manufacture and sales of HD DVD hardware?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

I know the Toshiba press conference dedicated a lot of time to discussing their HDTVs, but were they expected to debut fourth-generation players? If so, and Toshiba did not, I wonder if Toshiba has reevaluated their future in the manufacture and sales of HD DVD hardware?

They did not announce 4G players like they were supposed to so yes, I am also thinking that they might just want to call it quits now as they lose money on those player sales not to mention all the other costs associated with more products.

Either they will foolishly try to go out with a fight and lose more money or they will just call it quits over the next couple months.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

$316.31 for a Sony BDP-S300 at Amazon with free shipping. And I saw the BDP-S301 going for less than $300 at my local Costco last week.

And with the MSRP back at $400, you should probably snap those deals up while you can.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

They did not announce 4G players like they were supposed to so yes, I am also thinking that they might just want to call it quits now as they lose money on those player sales not to mention all the other costs associated with more products.

Your comments don't make any sense. HD-DVD is the official format of China, so Toshiba is only out of the fight in the U.S. They're obviously going to continue making more HD-DVD players for other markets.

[starman]

But
they
didn't
annouce
4G

This was the week to do so. By NOT showing a 4G player, it shows THE WORLD that there's little or no confidence from Toshiba itself.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Your comments don't make any sense. HD-DVD is the official format of China, so Toshiba is only out of the fight in the U.S. They're obviously going to continue making more HD-DVD players for other markets.

I would think that after such drastic news from Warner Toshiba would want to come out looking confident and strong supporting the format. They should have announced G4 players that knocked our socks off and sold them for cheap.

Yet instead of that they spend 1 minute on HD-DVD news to say they are disappointed with what happened with Warner and that they are talking with partners on what to do with the format in the future.

That shows they don't even have the confidence in the format now if they hide it in the biggest electronics show of the year.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

And with the MSRP back at $400, you should probably snap those deals up while you can.

Uh.... the MSRP never changed. Those sale prices were "sale prices". Sales happen all the time.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Samsung intros BD-P1500 Blu-ray player, BD-UP5500 combo player - Engadget

Is Target going Blu-ray exclusive? - Engadget HD

Sharp's BD-HP50U Blu-ray Disc player with profile 1.1 support - Engadget

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Your comments don't make any sense. HD-DVD is the official format of China . . . .

Okay, as a disclaimer, I realize that every sensible businessman realizes the smart money is on China (given its 1.3B people market, burgeoning economy, rising middle class, et al.).

But first, if Toshiba is counting on China to sell its goods, then it really has reached a new low. First, the average Chinese earns about 1000RMB, or about $125, per month. A majority of Chinese won't be in the market for a HD DVD player, much less a HDTV anytime soon. (Note: This is the same country where for many people going to McDonald's is treated as a special occasion). Second, even if Toshiba were to compete in the Chinese market, they'd be competing with cheap Chinese manufacturers and won't be making many sales if they charge a premium on their Toshiba branded sets. Third, aside from hardware competition, the HD DVD group will be pushing their HD DVD format against China's own CH-DVD format, which is supposed to be compatible with HD DVD players. Fourth, this doesn't change the fact that HD DVD will have little studio support, especially so if they plan to make a stand in China, where piracy is rampant and Hollywood studios are already loathe to invest.

Originally Posted by goMac 

[S]o Toshiba is only out of the fight in the U.S. They're obviously going to continue making more HD-DVD players for other markets.

Actually, HD DVD is pretty much out of the fight everywhere else. In terms of software sales, in Japan Blu-ray is ahead 9:1, in Europe 3:1, in Australia at least 3:1. Hardware sales for Blu-ray lead worldwide as well.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yes, I'm sure all of the sources I have cited are wrong, while you are right.

The theory that Warner was trying to get Fox to go with them to HD-DVD fits perfectly with Warner trying to end the format war. I'm not sure why you're so resistant to it. It's not like they were successful...

I would trust real insiders from various studios within the BDA or within the industry in hollywood brokering deals who have been verified by blu-ray.com's moderating team over David Vaughn who does not work for any studio whatsoever.

He is just a blogger. You can go ask Talkstr8, PentonMan, KJack on blu-ray.com. They are insiders who have been verified on both blu-ray.com and avsforums.com although most of them do not frequent the latter site anymore because of the pro-HD DVD slant and favoritism given to Amir (former HD DVD VP at MSFT) and the fake insider David Vaughn.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

And with the MSRP back at $400, you should probably snap those deals up while you can.

Who pays MSRP? Retailers themselves don't even stick to MSRP.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I would think that after such drastic news from Warner Toshiba would want to come out looking confident and strong supporting the format. They should have announced G4 players that knocked our socks off and sold them for cheap.

Why? For the U.S. market it doesn't matter, the number of titles here has been drastically reduced. They might as well have announced a new Laserdisc player.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yet instead of that they spend 1 minute on HD-DVD news to say they are disappointed with what happened with Warner and that they are talking with partners on what to do with the format in the future.

As opposed to launching their own movie studio? Seriously, you really expected them to launch new players in the U.S. market right now?

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

That shows they don't even have the confidence in the format now if they hide it in the biggest electronics show of the year.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Toshiba has no idea what they're going to do. They don't have many options. They can either abandon the format in the U.S., try and somehow win Warner back (longshot), or buy off another studio (longshot). I don't expect Toshiba will give up right now, but I'm not sure how successful they'll be in trying to regain their balance.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Uh.... the MSRP never changed. Those sale prices were "sale prices". Sales happen all the time.

Except the $300 price was set by Sony themselves...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

And bang for buck.

Depends on how many bucks you have.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

I would trust real insiders from various studios within the BDA or within the industry in hollywood brokering deals who have been verified by blu-ray.com's moderating team over David Vaughn who does not work for any studio whatsoever.

He is just a blogger. You can go ask Talkstr8, PentonMan, KJack on blu-ray.com. They are insiders who have been verified on both blu-ray.com and avsforums.com although most of them do not frequent the latter site anymore because of the pro-HD DVD slant and favoritism given to Amir (former HD DVD VP at MSFT) and the fake insider David Vaughn.

I'm not talking just about David Vaughn. Multiple sites have been running stories on how Warner was trying to get Fox to go HD-DVD because Warner wanted to end the format war.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think I am up to 3 now. What is the MacNN official limit?
If there is a news report next week about it can I post it or am I overlimit?

In the 99 pages of this thread I don't think anyone posted the same question more than once. It is 99 pages of original comments here baby!

Are you forgetting about that little poll you created?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Depends on how many bucks you have.

Negative.

What happens when you have more money to spend is that you stop caring about bang for buck. Doesn't mean that what bang for buck is ever actually changes.

Any way you slice it, the Kia provides more per dollar spent than any gas guzzling Europony.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Negative.

What happens when you have more money to spend is that you stop caring about bang for buck. Doesn't mean that what bang for buck is ever actually changes.

Any way you slice it, the Kia provides more per dollar spent than any gas guzzling Europony.

The more bucks you have, the more bucks are needed to give you "bang". Very few multi-millionaires get any "bang" at all from a Kia.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Why? For the U.S. market it doesn't matter, the number of titles here has been drastically reduced. They might as well have announced a new Laserdisc player.

Ok. So GoMac and other HD supporters. What do YOU think is going to happen now.
I think everyone here (except one or 2 perhaps) have admitted that the war is over with the current situation.

If no other studio's defect back to HD (which I am positive none will) what do you see happening?
HD for movies is dead but it will still win over BR as a desktop storage? HD still has a chance in the movie wars? Will toshiba still sell new players in the US in 6 months?

With the way things are today there is no real sense in arguing anything. it is overwith.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Oh oh Eug, you may have been wrong again...
You thought you wouldn't see a 1.1 BR player before Sept for $300?

Philips launches BDP7200 BonusView-enabled Blu-ray player - Engadget HD

At $350 it is damn close plus that is just the MSRP so I am sure you can get it easily at $300 in April.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ok. So GoMac and other HD supporters. What do YOU think is going to happen now.

Honestly, I don't care. If Toshiba gets some ground back I'll take another look at HD-DVD. Right now I'm looking at investing into digital formats.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

If no other studio's defect back to HD (which I am positive none will) what do you see happening?

Who knows? Even if HD-DVD dies that doesn't mean Bluray will necessarily win.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

HD for movies is dead but it will still win over BR as a desktop storage? HD still has a chance in the movie wars? Will toshiba still sell new players in the US in 6 months?

I don't see next gen optical media becoming any sort of desktop storage except in the Pro market. Apple is dropping optical drives from the Macbooks if reports are to be believed. The writing is on the wall.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

With the way things are today there is no real sense in arguing anything. it is overwith.

Why do you automatically assume that if HD-DVD loses that Bluray will win? This isn't a binary argument.

[starman]

Ok, now you're talking nonsense.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Except the $300 price was set by Sony themselves...

That was the price they set during the sale for the Christmas season on sonystyle.com right? Well that is the sale price. Sony at the sony stores here in Canada have sales all the time on their Bravia's, Camcorders and other devices all the time but that does not affect the MSRP. Do you think Sony sticks to the MSRP in their own stores throughout the year?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Who knows? Even if HD-DVD dies that doesn't mean Bluray will necessarily win.

Huh? They will WIN this war for sure. Will they replace DVD? Who know, it doesn't matter really. It might just stay as a high end DVD format and never really beat out DVD but as far as HD on disk is concerned HD-DVD is dead BR won.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Huh? They will WIN this war for sure.

Honestly, this is just the first battle of a larger war. Beating HD-DVD does not guarantee commercial success of Bluray. It's pretty obvious Apple has little intention of bringing Bluray to consumer machines, because again, it would appear that they intend to drop optical drives from consumer machines.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Honestly, this is just the first battle of a larger war. Beating HD-DVD does not guarantee commercial success of Bluray. It's pretty obvious Apple has little intention of bringing Bluray to consumer machines, because again, it would appear that they intend to drop optical drives from consumer machines.

You know this for a fact? Macworld is next week.

[pooka]

Yeah, I really don't see the point in arguing any more. At this point, there really is no denying that Toshiba has lost the war. It can't be disputed anymore than the fact that Sony can blow me. Yay for 50gigs of region coded multilayered DRM'ed crap. Maybe Sony can now focus their attention on game quality.

[Chongo]

on demand HD content is becoming more and more available. I have DirecTV and the are adding HD to their Direct On Demand service.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by goMac 

It's pretty obvious Apple has little intention of bringing Bluray to consumer machines, because again, it would appear that they intend to drop optical drives from consumer machines.

Do you just like being wrong?

[Oversoul]

From the Financial Times:

The studio’s switch means the outlook is gloomy for the studios that have championed HD-DVD. Universal, owned by General Electric, has been the format’s biggest champion but it was keeping tight-lipped yesterday about its next move.

It was also unclear yesterday whether the other studios backing HD-DVD would change sides, although it is understood Paramount has reserved the right to switch its backing to Blu-ray.

If true, the next few weeks and months should be very interesting...

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Do you just like being wrong?

You never know when you might run into someone with insider knowledge of company product plans.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

You know this for a fact? Macworld is next week.

I don't know when but I know for a fact that as of a few years ago it was on the shorter term roadmap. Everything I'm hearing from the rumor sites fits the discussions I've sat in on with Apple.

[starman]

A few YEARS ago?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

A few YEARS ago?

Yep. I was sitting in on a meeting with Apple's mobile product managers. Generally Apple plots their roadmaps out a few years. People don't think that Apple shares their long term plans, but they actually do to larger customers.

We were basically talking to them while they were still on the design phase.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You never know when you might run into someone with insider knowledge of company product plans.

Right just like how Warner will not go Blu because of the authoring costs or all the other insider info which was all proved wrong a few days ago.

Sony boasts PlayStation holiday sales numbers - Joystiq