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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > So, what's up with Panther 7B21?

So, what's up with Panther 7B21? (Page 2)
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gorgonzola
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:29 AM
 
You could use something like axel to download the thing from multiple servers at once. One of the Fink devs told me about it...seems nice; I don't have a seed key, though, so I dunno how much it'll help on this one. fink install axel ... pretty easy to use.
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Hash
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:57 AM
 
it may sound wrong, but i want to see as much as possible bug-free Panther release. We are not talking about Jaguar here. Panther really has so many new things, plus dont forget that it must be working on entirely new chips and new line of hardware, G5, in addition to being compatible with all old hardware, up to beige G3. No one knows how Panther works (or does it work at all) on G5, and the previous builds were extremely buggy. This double new release therefore is something, which should not be related with any fiasco, if it turns out that G5 are not compatible with Panther in some way. Though people are talking about the wonderful mini-features to be added all the time up to gold master release, its plain dumb. No one yet tested Panther on G5 outside of Apple. There is the new hardware combination which requires double checking and if you count that G5 will be released in early September/late August, then it means there is only 1-2 months to test Panther and all apps on Panther+G5 combination and with the S-ATA, new chip, new memory, new FSB architecture, entirely new hardware who knows what kinds of all possible strange things could happen. So actually there is not much time, and even with the supposed speed of Cocoa development there is shortage of time. I dont think any new features should or will be added from now, as perhaps addition of new features is already frozen. I would like to see POLISHED Mac OS, after waiting for 3 years. Its time already.

I would like also to see Apple breaking with the tradition of releasing half-baked updates and untested software, sometimes containing extremely annoying little bugs, which can spoil the joy of new OS version, as well as with the tradition of releasing a whole bunch of system updates, sometimes as large as 78 mb, almost immediately after the release of OS. There is nothing bad with revisions, but at least the master release should be bug-free as much as possible and i think its a very basic and understandable requirement.

New little nice features can be added in later updates or 10.4, which is already of course slated for Fall 2004 release
     
sahara
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Jul 28, 2003, 01:29 AM
 
So... anything new on the appearance front? Can you use labels in list view?
- Sahara
     
besson3c
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:12 AM
 
Originally posted by Hash:
it may sound wrong, but i want to see as much as possible bug-free Panther release. We are not talking about Jaguar here. Panther really has so many new things, plus dont forget that it must be working on entirely new chips and new line of hardware, G5, in addition to being compatible with all old hardware, up to beige G3. No one knows how Panther works (or does it work at all) on G5, and the previous builds were extremely buggy. This double new release therefore is something, which should not be related with any fiasco, if it turns out that G5 are not compatible with Panther in some way. Though people are talking about the wonderful mini-features to be added all the time up to gold master release, its plain dumb. No one yet tested Panther on G5 outside of Apple. There is the new hardware combination which requires double checking and if you count that G5 will be released in early September/late August, then it means there is only 1-2 months to test Panther and all apps on Panther+G5 combination and with the S-ATA, new chip, new memory, new FSB architecture, entirely new hardware who knows what kinds of all possible strange things could happen. So actually there is not much time, and even with the supposed speed of Cocoa development there is shortage of time. I dont think any new features should or will be added from now, as perhaps addition of new features is already frozen. I would like to see POLISHED Mac OS, after waiting for 3 years. Its time already.

I would like also to see Apple breaking with the tradition of releasing half-baked updates and untested software, sometimes containing extremely annoying little bugs, which can spoil the joy of new OS version, as well as with the tradition of releasing a whole bunch of system updates, sometimes as large as 78 mb, almost immediately after the release of OS. There is nothing bad with revisions, but at least the master release should be bug-free as much as possible and i think its a very basic and understandable requirement.

New little nice features can be added in later updates or 10.4, which is already of course slated for Fall 2004 release
Has there ever been an OS release that has been polished? Is it even possible?
     
OpenStep
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:20 AM
 
I think he even means the very small things. Take a look in iPhoto and iMovie at the 3 aqua widgets at the top. They've been like that for 4 months with no updates from Apple. It may not be much but it still counts as "an annoying bug".
     
geekwagon
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:01 AM
 
Polish is nice, and Apple definitely cares more about having a polished, "professional" look than any other software company I can think of. Just look at all the smooth transitions between video modes, etc. In fact, the polish was one of the things that first attracted me to OS X (I was previously primarily a Linux user.) That said, I would rather they fix the few remaining huge glaring holes first. Things like the finder going into la-la land when a network server becomes unavailable. The force-quit dialog that has about a 20% chance of actually killing the misbehaving app (0% if the app is the Finder or Dock..) etc. etc.

Of course, I hear that a lot of the bigger things that we have been forced to live with in Jaguar (mostly in the Finder, admittedly) are fixed in Panther. In that case, by all means, add a ton more polish!
     
DaGuy
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:15 AM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
XCode does sound cool, but let's be honest. Compilation speed usually isn't the limiting factor for development. The problem is debugging speed. I don't want to sound like a broken record but that's where Apple's extremely weak.
Actually, that's quite true.

     
clarkgoble
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:02 AM
 
Originally posted by OpenStep:
I think he even means the very small things. Take a look in iPhoto and iMovie at the 3 aqua widgets at the top. They've been like that for 4 months with no updates from Apple. It may not be much but it still counts as "an annoying bug".
Sorry. I just looked and I don't see what the problem is. They look fine to me.

I agree with getting a program as bug free as possible. However I think many end users, ignorant of the realities of debugging, don't quite understand that "bug free" is largely impossible. You can minimize bugs. And, I think, Apple has failed at that at times. There have been some obvious doozeys. The bigger issues are less bugs than obvious function problems. But expecting bug free is unrealistic. Some problems simply only crop up when some user uses a program in an unexpected way. Testing can only find so many of those. And the bigger problem is less testing than reproducing. I remember spending a week once trying to reproduce a bug in such a way that I could at least have some idea of where the bug was even arising from.
     
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:53 AM
 
Originally posted by ambush:
I've been using xcode for 2 weeks now, and really, I not that great. I mean. I thought it was going to be the next big thing in Cocoa Coding. But it's not, IMO. I wish PB would be included in the new tools
The new xCode in this latest diownload is vastly improved. I'm sure when Panther hits the streets, it'll be of a quality akin to that of Jaguar.
     
calumr
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Jul 28, 2003, 06:15 AM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
XCode does sound cool, but let's be honest. Compilation speed usually isn't the limiting factor for development. The problem is debugging speed. I don't want to sound like a broken record but that's where Apple's extremely weak.
It's true that debugging is a pain right now, and I hope the debugger is improved, but compilation speed is a limiting factor when you're compiling something like Camino or any large project.

I'll bet Omni are the most pleased about XCode - theirs seem to be the biggest Cocoa apps around. Instead of having to wait for 10 minutes while OmniWeb compiles, they may only have to wait 2 or 3 minutes now (or less - I don't know how fast XCode can get).

It'll be interesting to see what the limiting factors will be for distributed builds. Bandwidth, processor speed and memory are the 3 obvious ones, but will it be beneficial to distribute builds to 1 other really fast G4 or a handful of G3's? If 1 machine has a heavy CPU load, does it get left out? Does XCode realise that 1 computer isn't pulling its weight and give it less work?
     
Drizzt
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Jul 28, 2003, 08:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Hash:
it may sound wrong, but i want to see as much as possible bug-free Panther release. We are not talking about Jaguar here. Panther really has so many new things, plus dont forget that it must be working on entirely new chips and new line of hardware, G5, in addition to being compatible with all old hardware, up to beige G3. No one knows how Panther works (or does it work at all) on G5, and the previous builds were extremely buggy. This double new release therefore is something, which should not be related with any fiasco, if it turns out that G5 are not compatible with Panther in some way. Though people are talking about the wonderful mini-features to be added all the time up to gold master release, its plain dumb. No one yet tested Panther on G5 outside of Apple. There is the new hardware combination which requires double checking and if you count that G5 will be released in early September/late August, then it means there is only 1-2 months to test Panther and all apps on Panther+G5 combination and with the S-ATA, new chip, new memory, new FSB architecture, entirely new hardware who knows what kinds of all possible strange things could happen. So actually there is not much time, and even with the supposed speed of Cocoa development there is shortage of time. I dont think any new features should or will be added from now, as perhaps addition of new features is already frozen. I would like to see POLISHED Mac OS, after waiting for 3 years. Its time already.

I would like also to see Apple breaking with the tradition of releasing half-baked updates and untested software, sometimes containing extremely annoying little bugs, which can spoil the joy of new OS version, as well as with the tradition of releasing a whole bunch of system updates, sometimes as large as 78 mb, almost immediately after the release of OS. There is nothing bad with revisions, but at least the master release should be bug-free as much as possible and i think its a very basic and understandable requirement.

New little nice features can be added in later updates or 10.4, which is already of course slated for Fall 2004 release
There are different ways to develop, and I believe Apple chose the modular way.

I think what they are doing is add one function, test it, when it's ready, go on and start an other.

IMHO, that's the best way, since you are focussing on getting the best out of a small part of code.

BTW, the new hardware you are talking about is software compatible with the old hardware. S-ATA, the new FSB and the new G5 doesn't need new drivers to work.
     
jasong
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:17 AM
 
I was also under the impression that since OS X uses a HAL, these kinds of hardware shifts are transparent to the applications since they do not directly access the hardware.

(talking out my butt here, so please feel free to correct).

-- Jason
     
WJMoore
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:47 AM
 
Originally posted by jasong:
I was also under the impression that since OS X uses a HAL, these kinds of hardware shifts are transparent to the applications since they do not directly access the hardware.

(talking out my butt here, so please feel free to correct).

-- Jason
That's correct, the apps don't have to care what hardware is beneath them but the OS does - It has to provide the HAL. Somewhere along the line support for any new hardware must be added to the OS so this is highly likely the case for the new G5 architecture.

WM
     
gorgonzola
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:25 AM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Sorry. I just looked and I don't see what the problem is. They look fine to me.
The problem:



Are you sure you don't see it? Compare it to the widgets in any other app you're running.

It's been like that on every machine running Jaguar I've seen and a lot of other people have pointed it out, so I don't think it's specific to a few installs...

FWIW, I believe that this is gone in Panther, so...
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ryju
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:41 AM
 
oh it's gone in panther alright. hardcore!
     
absmiths
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:49 AM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
XCode does sound cool, but let's be honest. Compilation speed usually isn't the limiting factor for development. The problem is debugging speed.
I would disagree with that. In my experience the limiting factor is usually the capabilities of the developers. Specialized tools can help some, but can't create competence.

Also, you would be more concerned with compilation speed if your project took 3 hours to compile.
     
absmiths
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:59 AM
 
Originally posted by gorgonzola:
The problem:



Are you sure you don't see it? Compare it to the widgets in any other app you're running.

It's been like that on every machine running Jaguar I've seen and a lot of other people have pointed it out, so I don't think it's specific to a few installs...

FWIW, I believe that this is gone in Panther, so...
I sure hope Apple uses better sense in prioritizing it's resources than many in these forums would have them do. Yeah, some apps have sunken buttons and some don't, but please, fix the kernel panics and major app incompatibilities (like Toast) first, THEN sink the buttons.
     
Drizzt
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:01 PM
 
Originally posted by absmiths:
I sure hope Apple uses better sense in prioritizing it's resources than many in these forums would have them do. Yeah, some apps have sunken buttons and some don't, but please, fix the kernel panics and major app incompatibilities (like Toast) first, THEN sink the buttons.
Agreed!
     
biscuit
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:07 PM
 
Originally posted by absmiths:
I sure hope Apple uses better sense in prioritizing it's resources than many in these forums would have them do. Yeah, some apps have sunken buttons and some don't, but please, fix the kernel panics and major app incompatibilities (like Toast) first, THEN sink the buttons.
It's not about weather they're sunken or not, the iPhoto/iMovie widgets are much closer together than in, say, Safari. Looks even worse than above for me (with coloured widgets).

Also, iPhoto seems to have some issues with redrawing when windows are in front of it. But that might just be my install or my lack of QE.

biscuit
     
iFix Rene
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:16 PM
 
yes, I agree this little things count a little
coz they are all over the place, making
a messy appearance.

as to someone sayin Apple should fix that
Roxio Toast doesnt work?!?

erm... I think that would be Roxio's task
If it ain't broken... Fix it!�
     
clarkgoble
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:18 PM
 
That's weird. I have iMovie3 and my widgets don't look like that. I just opened iPhoto though (which I never use) and it does have that problem. That is kind of glaring and I'm surprised they didn't fix it.
     
gorgonzola
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:21 PM
 
Originally posted by absmiths:
I sure hope Apple uses better sense in prioritizing it's resources than many in these forums would have them do. Yeah, some apps have sunken buttons and some don't, but please, fix the kernel panics and major app incompatibilities (like Toast) first, THEN sink the buttons.
While I'm completely in favor of fixing kernel panics and major bugs before aesthetic screwups, this has nothing to do with sunken buttons, as someone said. The window widgets are squashed together! It looks ridiculous if you're looking at the whole window, and I'm still not sure how they managed to do this in the first place.

Apple has released several smaller bugfix updates (10.2.x) over the last several months, most of which had little to do with kernel panics and largely fixed small bugs. So why is this still here?

That's the point.
"Do not be too positive about things. You may be in error." (C. F. Lawlor, The Mixicologist)
     
clarkgoble
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:24 PM
 
Originally posted by calumr:
It's true that debugging is a pain right now, and I hope the debugger is improved, but compilation speed is a limiting factor when you're compiling something like Camino or any large project.
Even with large projects you typically only recompile small bits. Admittedly those times when you modify a universally used header or need to rebuild the entire project, there are problems. But that isn't *that* common.

You are right though, up to now, recompiling everything in Codewarrior or Project Builder has been rather slow - especially compared to equivalent PC compilers. I've certainly griped about it. Of course my projects aren't nearly as bad as some folks at Adobe who told me how long their recompiles were.

Still the debugging tools are so weak and have not really been updated since Project Builder was released. I'm shocked they'd spend all that time in XCode and leave their gdb interface largely untouched. As I've said in similar threads - I've sent a lot of feedback on this. I basically debug as much code on Visual Studio before bringing my code to Project Builder. It really is a significant productivity issue.
     
iOliverC
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Jul 28, 2003, 12:59 PM
 
At MacBidouille, it says there is a simplified aqua look in the Finder, can anyone confirm this or post a screeny?
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 01:41 PM
 
The new installer now has the Panther X in the background, and it starts up much faster to where you can start using the Installer. Install time is a little bit better then the last beta...

As options for additional Apps Internet Explorer is listed for an install.

During the setup it forces you to enter an Apple ID. I just entered some garbage and it accepted that.

Some quick things noticed are that Apps now have that zooming effect that other sites talked about. This only happens when launching them from the Finder.

A new Disk Utility App has burning back in it and the creation of Images.

In the Control Panels Expose now has options for setting screen corners for screen savers.

Also the Keyboard Input option is now a Menu Extra and its on the right hand side with the rest of the menu extras.

Chess is back with options to rotate the board.

The Finder now has much improved Prefs, Including what to show on the side bar (eg. Computer, Hard Disks, iDisk, Network, Removable media, etc.). I didn't set up .Mac so it automatically left out the iDisk on the sidebar. There is also a Labels button where you can change only the colour names as of now it seems. There is also tabs for General and Advanced though I think they are filled with the same things as Jag (Spring-loaded folders etc, show these items on the desktop etc.)

I can't find File Vault anywhere yet though.

DVD Player now launches very fast for me (in the last it could take up to 20 seconds) but now is under 5 right till the watching window comes up.

There is a new calculator with options like Precision (0 to 16), and being able to display different number systems like Hex, Binary and Octal.

The speed is once again just incredible. I'm running this on a G4 466mhz with 896MB of RAM and a clunky old 6GB hard drive.

Very impressive once again.
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 01:52 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
The new installer now has the Panther X in the background, and it starts up much faster to where you can start using the Installer. Install time is a little bit better then the last beta...

As options for additional Apps Internet Explorer is listed for an install.

During the setup it forces you to enter an Apple ID. I just entered some garbage and it accepted that.

Some quick things noticed are that Apps now have that zooming effect that other sites talked about. This only happens when launching them from the Finder.

A new Disk Utility App has burning back in it and the creation of Images.

In the Control Panels Expose now has options for setting screen corners for screen savers.

Also the Keyboard Input option is now a Menu Extra and its on the right hand side with the rest of the menu extras.

Chess is back with options to rotate the board.

The Finder now has much improved Prefs, Including what to show on the side bar (eg. Computer, Hard Disks, iDisk, Network, Removable media, etc.). I didn't set up .Mac so it automatically left out the iDisk on the sidebar. There is also a Labels button where you can change only the colour names as of now it seems. There is also tabs for General and Advanced though I think they are filled with the same things as Jag (Spring-loaded folders etc, show these items on the desktop etc.)

I can't find File Vault anywhere yet though.

DVD Player now launches very fast for me (in the last it could take up to 20 seconds) but now is under 5 right till the watching window comes up.

There is a new calculator with options like Precision (0 to 16), and being able to display different number systems like Hex, Binary and Octal.

The speed is once again just incredible. I'm running this on a G4 466mhz with 896MB of RAM and a clunky old 6GB hard drive.

Very impressive once again.
Rock on man, thanks!

Anything new in Mail.app performance/features/Exchange compatibility?
     
zachs
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Jul 28, 2003, 01:56 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
The new installer now has the Panther X in the background, and it starts up much faster to where you can start using the Installer. Install time is a little bit better then the last beta...

[...]

Very impressive once again.
Any screenies?
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 01:58 PM
 
The default shell now seems to be Bash.

Last login: Mon Jul 28 13:43:37 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
-bash-2.05b$

Under Users the limitations are now built in for the users including some limits where you can set such things as modifying the dock, and burning cd's to what Apps they have acess to and then there is "Simple Finder" which only gives them access to the Apps you select through a folder in the dock.

When switching users there still is a bit of graphical noise at the end on my computer (GeForce 2MX) but it now remembers what monitor profile you have so my colour isn't all out of whack.

When applications now crash it asks if you would like to submit a report.

Under the file menu there is now an Archive command which seems to zip whatever you have selected.

Mail is at 1.3 (v581) and its now got that Action button in the drawer to display contextual menu's. This is what it says is new when I opened help (an app also amazingly faster)

What's New in Mail?

The new threaded view provides a convenient way to:
reduce clutter
view and manage your email
keep active discussions at the top of your inbox
quickly file and delete long threads

Drag and drop addressing:
makes it easy to drag email addresses between any address field
shortens familiar emails for legibility
is the easiest way to add to your Address Book
is the easiest way to add to choose between multiple email addresses

Performance
the fastest way to get and send email on the Mac
dramatic improvements to performance
optimizations for dial-up users

Improved Junk Mail Filtering
lets you take control of your mail
reduces spam

Robust Safari HTML rendering engine:
displays email formatted with sophisticated HTML features correctly
allows HTML email to be fully interactive

Also when setting up my account I left alot of the boxes blank and it showed me a nice little warning about how I wouldn't be able to send mail because of .... and with a purple question mark for the help this time. I guess this is because they can be ignored.
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:03 PM
 
What are iChat AV and Safari build numbers?

Thanks for the updates...
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:08 PM
 
Originally posted by zachs:
Any screenies?
I could if I had a place to put them....

iChat AV is now at v113 with the smilies also under the edit menu and way to block people from under the Buddy Menu.

In the Finder if you click that button on the right top side, it does give you an non-brushed metal Finder but its just like the Finder in OS 9, no toolbar or sidebar just folder stats, and amount of space available.

Its amazing how fast the menu's come down. Its easily Mac OS 9 performance. Something like Text Edit launches like SimpleText use to, and this is on pretty old hardware of mine.

Safari is at 1.1 v89. Can't say I see anything new but there is an option under General Prefs for "New windows open with:" and the options are home page, empty page, same page and bookmarks. That might have been there before, but I don't remember.
     
foobars
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:20 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
In the Finder if you click that button on the right top side, it does give you an non-brushed metal Finder but its just like the Finder in OS 9, no toolbar or sidebar just folder stats, and amount of space available.
Not quite, go to View > Show Toolbar =)
     
Simon
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:21 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
Safari is at 1.1 v89. Can't say I see anything new but there is an option under General Prefs for "New windows open with:" and the options are home page, empty page, same page and bookmarks. That might have been there before, but I don't remember.
That's what my Safari (from Jaguar, 1.0 v85) says as well.

Nevertheless, great infos. Keep 'em coming. Thanks!
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
That's what my Safari (from Jaguar, 1.0 v85) says as well.

Nevertheless, great infos. Keep 'em coming. Thanks!
From MacOSRumors the other day regarding "Safari builds"...

"Recently some very interesting builds of Safari have been popping up here and there. There haven't been many feature details (speed improvements, adjustable limit on the number of HTTP connections allowed, time to completion display in download manager, ability to turn off automatic loading of images....to name a few) but it seems clear that the stability of Safari has been improved greatly -- even in these developmental builds. v1.0 is infamous for its persistent, periodic crashes and occasional display errors (scrambled/corrupted window content) - problems which are conspicously absent from recent builds in the v90+ series."

Can you confirm these changes in v89?
     
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:28 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
The default shell now seems to be Bash.
Because tcsh doesn't support UTF-8.
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:34 PM
 
Originally posted by foobars:
Not quite, go to View > Show Toolbar =)
If I do that I get back to Metal Finder. If I go customize toolbar with the aqua finder it does look like its going to work, it shows me the tool bar and the stuff I can put in it, but when I click okay it just hides. When I do customize it though in the toolbar there is a very faint aqua stripes running through it, so maybe Apple is thinking about it. But maybe they get that for free. Also all of the Finder toolbar buttons seem to be missing their left edges, even in the customize toolbar window.

When using Expose to show desktop there is now a 20 pixel dark border around the screen and in there is where all the windows stop at. There still out of the way but you can still see a little bit of them around the screen.

I'm going to look around Safari and see what I can find. I forgot about the debug menu so I'll try turning that on.
( Last edited by tRr; Jul 28, 2003 at 02:44 PM. )
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:43 PM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
From MacOSRumors the other day regarding "Safari builds"...

"Recently some very interesting builds of Safari have been popping up here and there. There haven't been many feature details (speed improvements, adjustable limit on the number of HTTP connections allowed, time to completion display in download manager, ability to turn off automatic loading of images....to name a few) but it seems clear that the stability of Safari has been improved greatly -- even in these developmental builds. v1.0 is infamous for its persistent, periodic crashes and occasional display errors (scrambled/corrupted window content) - problems which are conspicously absent from recent builds in the v90+ series."

Can you confirm these changes in v89?
Can't say any of this is here (hasn't crashed on me yet, or any graphical glitches though). I just downloaded a Zip (no estimated time remaining) and the finder tried to decompress it but it just said Decompression failed. Seems like BOM Archive Helper is what is doing all of the work. Stuffit Expander didn't have a problem. Just clicking on this text field appeared to have deleted all this text but a quick select all brought it back. So I guess there is still things to be worked out.

The only error I've had with the whole OS so far is something that happened in the previous build as-well, in that my keyboard just stops working. If I unplug it and plug it back in its fine.

Also a new thing I noticed is that places where you can type a password show on the right hand side if caps lock is on, or num lock, but I can't seem to turn num lock off after I turn it on (and the light on my Pro Keyboard no longer turns on as-well.)
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:33 PM
 
Some final things I have noticed is that when a screen saver is on and you are entering your password you have the option to "switch users" which brings you back to the login screen.

Under Internet Connect there are options for VPN with "L2TP over IPSec" and "PPTP" as well as an option for 802.1X. That might have been in the previous build I don't remember.

The zooming effect also works on documents when being opened.

QuickTime is at 6.4a20.

iCal is at 1.5 (v548) and now seems to have fatter buttons for the Day Week Month selection on the bottom.

Preview is at 2.1.0 (v210) and is still very fast.

Sherlock is at 3.6 (v159) and there seems to be much less Channels to search in compared to the previous release which had a bunch of 3rd party extras. There only seems to be one extra and that is News (Japan).

If you right click to bring up a contextual menu, right clicking again will close it in this build. This is how it was like in Jag, but the WWDC preview had it open up another menu where you clicked.

System Preferences now have a alternating background behind the different rows if you are viewing them by Category.

Resizing basic windows (like Help) is very responsive, but things like iTunes and Safari still lag big time for me at least.

I'll be gone for most of the rest of today, so I hope I managed to help some of you!
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:36 PM
 
Thanks tRr for the information...are you trying with this build to run it as your default/primary OS? Is it that "bug free" for you?
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:47 PM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
Thanks tRr for the information...are you trying with this build to run it as your default/primary OS? Is it that "bug free" for you?
50/50 really, the only major bug I have had so far is the keyboard not working. There are some minor issues I have seen with the Finder like the status info appearing on the bottom as well as in the main window over icons, the trash emptying but still leaving the icons in the trash, and lots of items in a folder sometimes the Finder will just show zero items. I still have 10.2 on my main Hard Drive. I have Panther installed on just an old one I have laying around.

I read on MacBidouille about the AddressBook exchange support and its under General Preferences there is a box to check that says Synchronize with Exchange and if you click that it asks for User Name, Password and Outlook Web Access Server. There is also a check-box to Synchronize every hour.

Inside of mail checking again it does seem to have some sort of Exchange support. The new accounts panel has been redone with your accounts on the side running done, and the information presented on the right. You can select "Exchange" as an account type. The only other option it gives you other then IMAP or POP is a text field at the bottom asking for an "Outlook Web Access Server".
     
Xeo
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Jul 28, 2003, 03:49 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
XCode does sound cool, but let's be honest. Compilation speed usually isn't the limiting factor for development. The problem is debugging speed. I don't want to sound like a broken record but that's where Apple's extremely weak.
Isn't that the point of being able to change code in the running application? You can debug your app without even stopping the app from running and you can see if the bug is fixed right away.
     
BZ
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:04 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
Some final things I have noticed is that when a screen saver is on and you are entering your password you have the option to "switch users" which brings you back to the login screen.
Yes! Yes! Yes!

That made it for me. The Switch User is/was only useful if they could switch from a locked screensaver to another user.

BZ
     
dfiler
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:07 PM
 
There has been some rather haphazard characterization of features and their relation to build numbers�

There is no discernable pattern to Apple�s public builds being feature frozen or not. Sometimes, many new features, components, and applications are seemingly inserted at the last minute� sometimes not.

It is important to remember that features can be frozen internally but not on public releases. Also, important developers have direct contact with the OS X high-level integration team at Apple. If a feature is too buggy for public consumption but critical to Photoshop�s development, it�s likely that Adobe receives special treatment.

Thus, please ignore any overly assertive claims of features being �frozen�.
     
Simon
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:14 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
Some final things I have noticed is that when a screen saver is on and you are entering your password you have the option to "switch users" which brings you back to the login screen.
Yes!!!

Just what I was hoping for.

Thanks a million, Apple.
     
danengel
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:15 PM
 
>> The default shell now seems to be Bash.
> Because tcsh doesn't support UTF-8
I would love to see a Unicode shell! European users with all their ��������� and whatever more will be most happy.
     
bgmccollum
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:26 PM
 
KP @ Boot...hmpf :-/
     
Geobunny
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:30 PM
 
Originally posted by BZ:
Yes! Yes! Yes!

That made it for me. The Switch User is/was only useful if they could switch from a locked screensaver to another user.

BZ
That's actually quite an annoying one for me. If I lock the screen, I'm telling people "I'm still using this machine, please go find another". Being able to log in as a different user in this case is actually quite daft and somewhat defeats the purpose.
ClamXav - the free virus scanner for Mac OS X | Geobunny learns to fly
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:31 PM
 
Originally posted by bgmccollum:
KP @ Boot...hmpf :-/
You using Jaguar, still?

     
Moose
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by danengel:
I would love to see a Unicode shell! European users with all their ��������� and whatever more will be most happy.
Most Western European languages work fine with ISO Latin-1.

Also, the shell is just a small part of the whole piece. All the utilities need to be rewritten to accommodate Unicode. This is not a trivial task.
     
Moose
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Jul 28, 2003, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by bgmccollum:
KP @ Boot...hmpf :-/
http://bugreporter.apple.com/
     
Simon
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Jul 28, 2003, 05:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Geobunny:
That's actually quite an annoying one for me. If I lock the screen, I'm telling people "I'm still using this machine, please go find another". Being able to log in as a different user in this case is actually quite daft and somewhat defeats the purpose.
Apple knows that. They are not that dumb.

If you want to lock your machine, you are working in an environment that doesn't need fast user switching (like a students computer lab). You can turn the user switching feature off and then you can still lock your machine firmly.
     
 
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