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Longhorn Avalon looking good
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RooneyX
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May 6, 2004, 09:17 PM
 
Even though Longhorn's interface isn't as user friendly as OSX's and OSX will be ahead of it be the time it is released, it's really shaping up really well....as long as you have the latest graphic cards.

For example, with Quartz we have simulated shadows around our windows. They are a blend of maps and transparency alpha blends to create a shadow look. But Avalon gives Longhorn actual hardware accelerated shadows like we are seeing in the latest games. This makes the windows look like solid objects floating ubove the background or other windows much better than OSX currently does:

http://www.neowin.net/staff/toxicfum...074layered.jpg

http://www.neowin.net/staff/toxicfum...nexclusive.jpg

Hopefully Tiger will have hardware accelerated shadows for those with the right hardware. I don't see why a minor Panther update can't add it - it only takes a few lines of code to instruct the GPU to do so.

Also interesting but nowhere near as good as Expose is a new method of tiling using alt-tab. It's a bit like Sun's version. All open windows or the windows of any given app line up and angle a little bit along the Z axis:

http://www.neowin.net/staff/toxicfume/DWM/DWM1.jpg

I don't see the practical application of this yet compared to Expose but who knows what the future might bring?

The following links are zipped video files of:

Half Life 2! Looks amazing!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/creamha...fLife2Demo.zip

Longhorn's 3D power compared to XP:

http://www.neowin.net/staff/creamhac...hinKeynote.zip

And Bill Gates proving what a moron he is:

http://www.neowin.net/staff/creamhac...llGKeynote.zip
     
OwlBoy
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May 6, 2004, 09:25 PM
 
I coulda swore Quartz Extreme did Accelerate window shadows...

-Owl
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 6, 2004, 09:30 PM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:
I coulda swore Quartz Extreme did Accelerate window shadows...

-Owl
It accelerates the graphics and textures but does not create hardware shadows or lighting effects. We could have that now as most of us have hardware T+L GPUs but nobody has programmed it.

If we had hardware shadows then you'd still see shadows when you hit shift+minimize for example.
     
OwlBoy
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May 6, 2004, 09:31 PM
 
Ah I see what you mean. Basically we have pre-rendered shadows now? ok.

Oh, and that Half Life 2 video: Not totally new, but still jaw-dropping...

Damn well better come to the mac.

-Owl
     
lookmark
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May 6, 2004, 09:49 PM
 
Neowin isn't allowing those links, BTW, but you check 'em out from their WinHEC blog here:

http://www.neowin.net/events/index.php?cat=2

Half-Life 2 does indeed look fantastic, and Bill Gates does indeed not. Total lack of charisma city.

Almost everything in the Longhorn tech demo does look pretty good (as far as I can tell from the jaggy video clip), but boy the imitation of OS X is quite blatant. Let's see... graphics-card enabled transparent windows with shadows, a column view, window animations... right. Looks kinda familiar.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple rises to the challenge (how could they not?), and if they're currently hard at work in their secret labs to have the next phase of a next-generation OS ready to present in the next 2-3 years...
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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May 7, 2004, 02:14 AM
 
Nothing about that OS looks better then then OSX 10.2

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Kristoff
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May 7, 2004, 02:15 AM
 
I think it looks like some two-bit brushed metal ripoff, myself. yech.

Wait a sec...is that a worm I see?
signatures are a waste of bandwidth
especially ones with political tripe in them.
     
geekwagon
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May 7, 2004, 03:45 AM
 
I do like the shadow effects, although I think part of the reason it looks more "3d" is that the shadows extend much further from the window and therefore makes the windows look like they are further separated on the z-axis than they do in OS X.

As for the XP/Longhorn comparison.. I'm not very impressed by that.. I wasn't watching too closely (and the camera work was incredibly annoying) but it looks like they managed to get 5 videos playing at once before they started getting choppy. I just this moment decided to test this on my G5 2.0 and I managed to get 5 XVID encoded movies (ranging in resolution from 640x480 to 720x520 or so) to play smoothly. These files are stored on a slow IDE RAID5 machine via Samba on Gb ethernet. I might have been able to get 6 if I played 3 locally and 3 off the network to spread the IO out a bit (the 6th one played, but everything got choppy at that point.) Now, if I missed the fact that they were HD resolution or something I would be impressed.

Oh, and Halflife 2 does look amazing.
     
theolein
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May 7, 2004, 04:33 AM
 
Yup, I think Longhorn will probably give the Windows crowd something to boast about when it finally comes out. The Glass effects do look better than the alpha blended shadows under OSX, but what actually DOES appeal to me more than that is the fact that the interface is consistent. This is OSX' biggest problem in terms of the UI, i.e. that some windows are brushed metal and others aren't and that there is no built in themeing ability in OSX.

Other than that I really hope Apple does have some nice surprises up its sleeve for 10.4, 10.5 (and perhaps 10.6 if it gets there before Longhorn) in order to provide the Mac crowd with the 'Mac advantage', even if its only in terms of security and reliability.
weird wabbit
     
GENERAL_SMILEY
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May 7, 2004, 05:54 AM
 
The deeper/longer shadows do look good - but from the screen shots they don't look like they're dynamic - meaning they change based on each windows relative layer; then again if they did that maybe they should have perspective too, and get smaller the further back they are?

Not sure what difference having pre-rendered shadows makes? Still could get deeper right, although I'm assuming it is something which cant be done through current Mac theme hacking?
I have Mac
     
RayX
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May 7, 2004, 06:50 AM
 
Hardware accelerated viruses with shadows and glass effects
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 07:09 AM
 
Originally posted by geekwagon:
I wasn't watching too closely (and the camera work was incredibly annoying) but it looks like they managed to get 5 videos playing at once before they started getting choppy. I just this moment decided to test this on my G5 2.0 and I managed to get 5 XVID encoded movies (ranging in resolution from 640x480 to 720x520 or so) to play smoothly.
Oh, and Halflife 2 does look amazing.
Those were not videos, those were 3D landscape scenes being rendered. Windows has always had better video and 3D performance than OSX. The comparison they made was with XP. XP ran out of texture memory with four scenes open, Longhorn uses better texture memory compression and new Direct X 9 features.
     
lngtones
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May 7, 2004, 07:32 AM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
Yup, I think Longhorn will probably give the Windows crowd something to boast about when it finally comes out. The Glass effects do look better than the alpha blended shadows under OSX, but what actually DOES appeal to me more than that is the fact that the interface is consistent. This is OSX' biggest problem in terms of the UI, i.e. that some windows are brushed metal and others aren't and that there is no built in themeing ability in OSX.
How is that interface consistent? How does the windows messenger interface relate to the internet explorer interface at all? What about that mIRC window?

The mIRC window's main title bar has different widgets then it's sub title bars (in the MDI).

The file browser and internet explorer look the same because they are the same program...

The taskbar looks shiny while the internet explorer black is more dull shine.

The internet explorer status bar is a different color than anything else in the app.

The mIRC window has its menubar at the top while the internet explorer has it's menu bar under the huge back button.

It seems to me that there are a lot more inconsistencies here than just metal vs aqua.
     
lngtones
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May 7, 2004, 07:35 AM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
Those were not videos, those were 3D landscape scenes being rendered. Windows has always had better video and 3D performance than OSX. The comparison they made was with XP. XP ran out of texture memory with four scenes open, Longhorn uses better texture memory compression and new Direct X 9 features.
This may be true, but remember that a lot of performance has to do with the drivers. I'm pretty sure a company like nVidia will spend a lot more time optimizing their windows drivers over their mac drivers. It just makes more business sense. OS X could have equal 3d performance if the same amount of work was put into it.
     
ginoledesma
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May 7, 2004, 07:42 AM
 
Should Apple decide to go that route, I'd rather that they spend more time on making sure it scales well. I hear a lot of "praises" about how Longhorn is supposed to scale well depending on its operating environment, so I'd like to see OS X do that as well. Right now, there's a noticeable difference between QE-accelerated and non-QE-accelerated systems, and while most systems sold now are all QE-accelerated, we can't deny the fact that there are older machines out there that run OS X nicely (save choppy graphics).
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 10:11 AM
 
Originally posted by lngtones:
This may be true, but remember that a lot of performance has to do with the drivers. I'm pretty sure a company like nVidia will spend a lot more time optimizing their windows drivers over their mac drivers. It just makes more business sense. OS X could have equal 3d performance if the same amount of work was put into it.
No its more to do with the maturity of the multimedia APIs. Regardless of graphic cards or drivers, Windows has always been better at those things and more responsive too.

For example, try scrolling through or drag resizing an mpeg file in Quicktime. 9 out of 10 times the video and audio will fall out of synch. Windows has always done it without a problem even with live video resizing. Same with Open GL applications, the interface doesn't slow down with heavy interaction as OSX does. And its not just the recent OSes, this has been the case before OSX. Direct Draw was simply much better at GUI acceleration than Diirect Draw. Direct 3D has no equivalent on the Mac and Open GL is more mature on Windows despite being the same version as other platforms.

I admitted a long time ago that iinteractivity with the Mac OS is the system's main weak point. That's why we still make jokes about snappiness.
     
Visnaut
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May 7, 2004, 10:27 AM
 
Originally posted by ginoledesma:
Should Apple decide to go that route, I'd rather that they spend more time on making sure it scales well. I hear a lot of "praises" about how Longhorn is supposed to scale well depending on its operating environment, so I'd like to see OS X do that as well. Right now, there's a noticeable difference between QE-accelerated and non-QE-accelerated systems, and while most systems sold now are all QE-accelerated, we can't deny the fact that there are older machines out there that run OS X nicely (save choppy graphics).
I agree, but you have to admit, Apple's done an amazing job up until this point. I'm on a non-QE machine, and sure, i get a choppy minimize or expos� animation here and there; but the fact is, Microsoft will never get such an advanced graphic layer to run on a lowly 400MHz machine with a shitty 16MB Rage 128.

The simple truth is that I am amazed to this day that with a G4 that is clearly outdated and outclassed by my school's most high end PCs, I still enjoy a much more stable computing environment in addition to smooth window dragging and other graphical bonuses. Not bad in my book
     
osxisfun
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May 7, 2004, 11:16 AM
 
A) Microsoft has said the UI will be tiered. Unless you have a high end card you will not see the eye candy. It scales down all the way to a Win 2000 flat looking interface.

B) How many delays and changes to Longhorn had there been already? EVERYTHING microsoft shows should be taken with 4 billion grains of salt.

C) I'm sure developers are salivating at rewriting their apps again to take advantage of it. Cough.Cough.

D) I remember a story a while back about them dropping some avalon related features. Didn't they already made some drastic changes since the last WinHec conference...Shouldn't this thread belong in "Future Vaprorware"

E) Cough. Can't wait till 2007 to try it out.... Betcha OSX won't change a bit. Nope. No changes at all.

We should only be comparing Longhorn 2007 to Mac OSX 2007...
     
Toyin
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May 7, 2004, 11:22 AM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
No its more to do with the maturity of the multimedia APIs. Regardless of graphic cards or drivers, Windows has always been better at those things and more responsive too.

For example, try scrolling through or drag resizing an mpeg file in Quicktime. 9 out of 10 times the video and audio will fall out of synch. Windows has always done it without a problem even with live video resizing. Same with Open GL applications, the interface doesn't slow down with heavy interaction as OSX does. And its not just the recent OSes, this has been the case before OSX. Direct Draw was simply much better at GUI acceleration than Diirect Draw. Direct 3D has no equivalent on the Mac and Open GL is more mature on Windows despite being the same version as other platforms.

I admitted a long time ago that iinteractivity with the Mac OS is the system's main weak point. That's why we still make jokes about snappiness.
Try the latest version of VLC. It resizes video on the fly without dropping any frames and it actually resizes better than any OSX app I've seen.
-Toyin
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foobars
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May 7, 2004, 11:41 AM
 
Originally posted by Toyin:
Try the latest version of VLC. It resizes video on the fly without dropping any frames and it actually resizes better than any OSX app I've seen.
Yes it really is amazing how well it works. The first time I saw it I couln't believe my eyes.
     
Mediaman_12
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May 7, 2004, 11:43 AM
 
One thing that gets me. Why would something that's almost totally transparent with sharp edges, have a heavy soft shadow?
Look at the vid (that seams to have been filmed by someone with attention deficit disorder, decide what shot you are going to have and stick to it all that zooming made it unwatchable.) the edge of the browser (?) window with the buttons etc on is sort of like a glass shelf, slightly lightning and magnifying what's underneath, but it also casts a wacking great black shadow from it's edge. What does this in real life.
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 12:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Toyin:
Try the latest version of VLC. It resizes video on the fly without dropping any frames and it actually resizes better than any OSX app I've seen.
I do use VLC It's very good, but try scrubbing through video and again the delay shows up. It's only on high end apps like Final Cut where live scrubbing is decent...but not perfect.
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 12:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
One thing that gets me. Why would something that's almost totally transparent with sharp edges, have a heavy soft shadow?
Look at the vid (that seams to have been filmed by someone with attention deficit disorder, decide what shot you are going to have and stick to it all that zooming made it unwatchable.) the edge of the browser (?) window with the buttons etc on is sort of like a glass shelf, slightly lightning and magnifying what's underneath, but it also casts a wacking great black shadow from it's edge. What does this in real life.
It's only a skin and beta too. OSX's menus are semi-transparent and use the same shadows as solid windows.

One thing I like is the look of Longhorn's clock - it uses some special effects to make it look like its solid glass. I look forward to when OSX's windows and GUI in general looks like solid objects you can literally grab with your hand.
     
mbryda
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May 7, 2004, 01:05 PM
 
Are you blind? Avalon looks like $hit. Is it designed for the blind? Huge clock, wizard panes everywhere. No thanks. It's an abomination.
     
Toyin
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May 7, 2004, 01:06 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
I do use VLC It's very good, but try scrubbing through video and again the delay shows up. It's only on high end apps like Final Cut where live scrubbing is decent...but not perfect.
Scrubbing is perfect with iMovie for me (New 1.5ghz PB 128VRAM). The fact of the matter is that all these apps seem to excel in one area and not another. I don't know why quicktime can't incorporate the best from all them. Maybe version 7?

Back on topic. OSX will be at 10.4 maybe even 10.5 by the time Longhorn rears it's ugly head. From what I saw of the movies and screenshots, Apple could implement most of those features today. Hopefully as Quartz develops more will be dumped onto the hardware. QE incapable machines may still be used but will be very old by then. Overall I wasn't impressed with the demonstration (except half-life2). If they said Longhorn was coming out tomorrow however, this would be more exciting.
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RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 02:01 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Are you blind? Avalon looks like $hit. Is it designed for the blind? Huge clock, wizard panes everywhere. No thanks. It's an abomination.
Why is it people need constant reminding that since XP Windows has been skinnable. Looks like ****? Change the appearance! There's nothing you can't adjust, include or get rid of.

Guess why people skin OSX? Same reasons. We're talking about the technology here, not the skins.
     
mbryda
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May 7, 2004, 03:55 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
Why is it people need constant reminding that since XP Windows has been skinnable. Looks like ****? Change the appearance! There's nothing you can't adjust, include or get rid of.

Guess why people skin OSX? Same reasons. We're talking about the technology here, not the skins.
Most of what they are doing has been doable since 98. Stardock could to alpha blending and transparency with 98 and DX.

And, a skinned Windows is still windows and you still have to put up with the crap UI of Windows.
     
lngtones
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May 7, 2004, 03:58 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
No its more to do with the maturity of the multimedia APIs. Regardless of graphic cards or drivers, Windows has always been better at those things and more responsive too.

For example, try scrolling through or drag resizing an mpeg file in Quicktime. 9 out of 10 times the video and audio will fall out of synch. Windows has always done it without a problem even with live video resizing. Same with Open GL applications, the interface doesn't slow down with heavy interaction as OSX does. And its not just the recent OSes, this has been the case before OSX. Direct Draw was simply much better at GUI acceleration than Diirect Draw. Direct 3D has no equivalent on the Mac and Open GL is more mature on Windows despite being the same version as other platforms.

I admitted a long time ago that iinteractivity with the Mac OS is the system's main weak point. That's why we still make jokes about snappiness.
You don't know what an API is. OpenGL is an API and the Mac version is an implementation of that API. And what I said before still stands. If more work was spent on the mac implementation of the APIs than they would run faster. It was nothing to do with Windows or how it's made other than it's the most dominate platform.

The same with the Quicktime stuff you mentioned, it's probably not a high priority at the moment, it has nothing to do with the Mac itself.

OpenGL is the equivalent of Direct3D but for many more platforms. Direct3D is an API which is different than it's implementation. There is no reason Direct3D couldn't be made for the Mac, but the quality of it's implementation would be different.

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Big Mac
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May 7, 2004, 04:43 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
It's only a skin and beta too. OSX's menus are semi-transparent and use the same shadows as solid windows.

One thing I like is the look of Longhorn's clock - it uses some special effects to make it look like its solid glass. I look forward to when OSX's windows and GUI in general looks like solid objects you can literally grab with your hand.
I've never seen anyone fawn so much over such an ugtastic OS before. Is that 20,000 pixel rectangle on this side their developmentally challenged version of the dock? My oh my - Windows users surely are in for a treat.

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RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 04:46 PM
 
I know what an API is. I hate it when people can't read and then answer prematurely.

Read 'maturity of APIs'.

Windows not only has them better coded but, like someone else said, more mature drivers.

Off topic, just because it popped in my head as a train of thought - I wish Apple would be more open about what it puts in their laptops. What speed is my GPU running at? Is there any way someone could bring Powerstrip to the Mac so I can OC my GPU?
     
mdc
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May 7, 2004, 04:53 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
And, a skinned Windows is still windows and you still have to put up with the crap UI of Windows.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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May 7, 2004, 04:57 PM
 
I don't think Longhorn is OS X...away this thread goes. Bye.
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 05:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
I don't think Longhorn is OS X...away this thread goes. Bye.
I've got more posts than you!
     
lngtones
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May 7, 2004, 05:08 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
I know what an API is. I hate it when people can't read and then answer prematurely.

Read 'maturity of APIs'.

Windows not only has them better coded but, like someone else said, more mature drivers.

Off topic, just because it popped in my head as a train of thought - I wish Apple would be more open about what it puts in their laptops. What speed is my GPU running at? Is there any way someone could bring Powerstrip to the Mac so I can OC my GPU?
Last time I checked, "maturity of APIs" means that the API isn't making drastic changes in the calls you make to use it. Notice that the I stands for Interface.
     
Big Mac
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May 7, 2004, 05:11 PM
 
Originally posted by lngtones:
Last time I checked, "maturity of APIs" means that the API isn't making drastic changes in the calls you make to use it. Notice that the I stands for Interface.
Yeah there's definitely something wrong with that previous definition for API. An API is an application programming interface - it provides the front-end calls for specific functions provided by the OS. APIs don't change, but the underlying code associated with them can.

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May 7, 2004, 05:16 PM
 
Hmm... all the neowin links are bad... guess I'll have to snoop around...

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May 7, 2004, 05:17 PM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Oh, and that Half Life 2 video: Not totally new, but still jaw-dropping...

Damn well better come to the mac.

-Owl
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May 7, 2004, 05:20 PM
 
deleted sorry.
( Last edited by kcmac; May 7, 2004 at 05:27 PM. )
     
ink
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May 7, 2004, 05:31 PM
 
Originally posted by Big Mac:
I've never seen anyone fawn so much over such an ugtastic OS before. Is that 20,000 pixel rectangle on this side their developmentally challenged version of the dock? My oh my - Windows users surely are in for a treat.

Honestly, I can't say that I am attracted to ANY of those screenshots. They look awful. Maybe the glass effects will be better in real life, but I'm NEVER going to devote that much of my desktop to a clock.

Now, how about useful features, like OSX's shrinking dock, or the multiple desktops under GNOME (complete with the pager, that allows you to drag entire applications from desktop to desktop)? It looks like the interface is exactly the same as Windows 95 again... it works, for certain, but beautiful?!?
     
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May 7, 2004, 05:59 PM
 
Someone needs to tell the guy who runs that website how to use a camcorder properly!
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osxisfun
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May 7, 2004, 06:02 PM
 
Originally posted by z0ne81:
Someone needs to tell the guy who runs that website how to use a camcorder properly!
He knows how to use the camera fine. The problem is he output the video thru Windows MovieMaker...




http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...er/default.asp
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
Originally posted by z0ne81:
Someone needs to tell the guy who runs that website how to use a camcorder properly!

hehe...thats piracy! You arent allowed to take cameras inside those conferences. Imagine how this guy pirates movies.
     
theolein
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May 7, 2004, 07:00 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
No its more to do with the maturity of the multimedia APIs. Regardless of graphic cards or drivers, Windows has always been better at those things and more responsive too.

For example, try scrolling through or drag resizing an mpeg file in Quicktime. 9 out of 10 times the video and audio will fall out of synch. Windows has always done it without a problem even with live video resizing. Same with Open GL applications, the interface doesn't slow down with heavy interaction as OSX does. And its not just the recent OSes, this has been the case before OSX. Direct Draw was simply much better at GUI acceleration than Diirect Draw. Direct 3D has no equivalent on the Mac and Open GL is more mature on Windows despite being the same version as other platforms.

I admitted a long time ago that iinteractivity with the Mac OS is the system's main weak point. That's why we still make jokes about snappiness.
It's defintely true that Windows has always been more respsonsive than Classic Mac OS and OSX, but there are reasons apart from maturity of the APIs. One of the reaons is the continuous background polling that was (and is) always going on on the Mac, to make sure the Finder is always updated (granted this is less than stellar in OSX) - remember having to always hit F5 in Windows to refresh the view prior to XP? In OSX there is also the question of double buffering of all windows that gets done by Quartz. Windows has, until Longhorn, never had double buffered windows.

But, in general I agree with you in that OSX could really use some responsiveness gains.
weird wabbit
     
theolein
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May 7, 2004, 07:01 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
hehe...thats piracy! You arent allowed to take cameras inside those conferences. Imagine how this guy pirates movies.
Who on earth cares?
weird wabbit
     
mitchell_pgh
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May 7, 2004, 07:39 PM
 
Games are such a soft spot in the Apple/Mac arena... They really need to get with someone like Sony or Nintendo and make it so that their gaming systems are built in to all Macs.

Impossible, I know...
     
RooneyX  (op)
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May 7, 2004, 07:58 PM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Games are such a soft spot in the Apple/Mac arena... They really need to get with someone like Sony or Nintendo and make it so that their gaming systems are built in to all Macs.

Impossible, I know...
Sony was going to make a Playstation on a PCI card several years ago but it disappeared...vapor around the time they reached a deal with Connectix. I guess they didn't want to hurt PS1 sales.

Since Screamer Rally there hasn't been one good racing game on the desktop. Other Rally games and Need For Speed don't have the exhiliration of the arcade and console racers. Beat em ups too. How come we only get first person shooters and strategy games?
     
iKenny
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May 7, 2004, 09:29 PM
 
Originally posted by RooneyX:
It accelerates the graphics and textures but does not create hardware shadows or lighting effects. We could have that now as most of us have hardware T+L GPUs but nobody has programmed it.

If we had hardware shadows then you'd still see shadows when you hit shift+minimize for example.
I've noticed that the shadows behind sheets in OS 10.3 don't disappear when the sheet is moving in or out, whether its a normal sheet or one of the ones that bulge out. Are these hardware shadows?
     
ApeInTheShell
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May 7, 2004, 11:36 PM
 
I'm not seeing the future in Longhorn. It copies the 3D objects on a 2D background but does not offer a full 3D environment. I'd expect by 2006-2008 we'd at least have an operating system where it feels like your moving the windows with your hands.

Some examples:

throw away a document by closing your hand
automatic speech recognition
optional mode for the screen to shrink and go back into your monitor so you can type with a keyboard.
     
olePigeon
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May 8, 2004, 12:06 AM
 
Longhorn is like puting a Ferrari shell on a Pinto. It looks great, but it's still gonna blow up.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
NeutronMonk
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May 8, 2004, 09:18 AM
 
My favorite part of the neowin weblog was that the author had to drive around Seattle for hours looking for a Firewire connection: quote: Today was a frenzy. We�ve been running around Seattle trying to find a place with firewire to get some of our footage of the video camera. After 5 hours we nearly gave up and then bumped into Paul Thurrott who helped us get it off the camera, thank god for Paul. :unquote. This sums up the Windows experience precisely.
     
 
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