[Doofy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...scientist.html

For centuries, writers have attempted to predict the future of the human race.

Some have argued that we are destined to evolve into super-beings, others that we are turning into dim-witted goblins incapable of anything more demanding than watching TV.

But according to a leading geneticist, both visions are wrong because human evolution has ground to a halt.

I'm not sure I buy that. I popped into town the other day and the aforementioned goblins appeared to be losing their wits before my very eyes.

Discuss.

[ghporter]

Your "leading geneticist" leads a sheltered life. Evolution for complex species runs on a geologic time scale, not his observation time scale. Further, we ARE evolving; we have managed to become allergically sensitive to enough of our urban toxins that we have an epidemic of asthma. There are other examples, like the fact that wisdom teeth are STILL in the process of being phased out (too late for me, of course).

[Eug]

There are 6 stages to evolution:



We have achieved stage 4.



The end is nigh.

[freudling]

There is also some research on how new generations of humans are smarter than their ancestors... that the DNA has undergone changes to give rise to more complex brains... at an earlier age, this engenders the ability to learn more, and do it more quickly than previous generations. It's partly environment, and partly genetics at play.

I'll see if I can find the link to the research.

Where has evolution stopped? Well, perhaps that is an oxymoron of sorts, but sharks are a good example of something that appears to be static in an evolutionary context. They are one of the most perfect predators: very well adapted to their environment. So they are sort of finished adapting and are very successful with the way that they are.

With humans, we will adapt, meaning we will evolve, but we will also be the ones implementing adaptation upon ourselves (modifying DNA, drugs to fight viruses and bacteria, etc.). We will create new worlds, both here and off the earth, we can select for the right traits for each new world... we essentially are smart enough to play god and help direct our own evolutionary path.

Order it up: blue eyes, 65% fast twitch muscle fibers in the quads, 6'5", size 13 foot, dual core brain, etc.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Order it up: blue eyes, 65% fast twitch muscle fibers in the quads, 6'5", size 13 foot, dual core brain, etc.

Apparently I'm the perfect made-to-order person.

[goMac]

Evolution depends on the species being pressured by natural elements. Because we're no longer pressured, I'd agree, evolution has stopped.

QED.

[brassplayersrock²]

only for turtles

[goMac]

Originally Posted by freudling 

There is also some research on how new generations of humans are smarter than their ancestors... that the DNA has undergone changes to give rise to more complex brains... at an earlier age, this engenders the ability to learn more, and do it more quickly than previous generations. It's partly environment, and partly genetics at play.

I'll see if I can find the link to the research.

Where has evolution stopped? Well, perhaps that is an oxymoron of sorts, but sharks are a good example of something that appears to be static in an evolutionary context. They are one of the most perfect predators: very well adapted to their environment. So they are sort of finished adapting and are very successful with the way that they are.

With humans, we will adapt, meaning we will evolve, but we will also be the ones implementing adaptation upon ourselves (modifying DNA, drugs to fight viruses and bacteria, etc.). We will create new worlds, both here and off the earth, we can select for the right traits for each new world... we essentially are smart enough to play god and help direct our own evolutionary path.

Order it up: blue eyes, 65% fast twitch muscle fibers in the quads, 6'5", size 13 foot, dual core brain, etc.

That wouldn't be evolution... that would be...

: gulp :

...intelligent design.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Apparently I'm the perfect made-to-order person.

I'm not sold on the OS.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I'm not sold on the OS.

You don't enjoy my multi-touch capabilities?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Laminar

I'm the perfect made-to-order person.

I thought that said "mail order person".

[freudling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Evolution depends on the species being pressured by natural elements. Because we're no longer pressured, I'd agree, evolution has stopped.

QED.

Wrong. Humans are just another variable in the environment acting on other organisms and causing them to adapt. In our case, we directly affect our environment and, in some cases, can control how we ourselves adapt.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Evolution depends on the species being pressured by natural elements. Because we're no longer pressured, I'd agree, evolution has stopped.

QED.

Not stopped, but rather the selective pressures have changed. I'd say nature has taken a back seat in shaping our species future at the moment.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Discuss.

Look in the mirror. Proof?

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is
a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

only for turtles

Reported.
nah, seriously though : p
-t

[brassplayersrock²]

So you're the one that got me in trouble! we're so not friends anymore

[- - e r i k - -]

The theory that evolution of man has ground to a halt is nothing new at all. For most of my life I've accepted the fact that evolution of man - at least on a major scale - has slowed down. One of the keys to a rapid evolution is isolation and environmental changes, and as a race that developed technology we have spread out to every corner of the globe. And technology has eliminated most needs to adapt to the environment around us.

If we decided to spread to other planets we could again become isolated and adapt to a new environment.

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Your "leading geneticist" leads a sheltered life. Evolution for complex species runs on a geologic time scale, not his observation time scale. Further, we ARE evolving; we have managed to become allergically sensitive to enough of our urban toxins that we have an epidemic of asthma. There are other examples, like the fact that wisdom teeth are STILL in the process of being phased out (too late for me, of course).

That's hardly evolution. It's more like devolution.

[angelmb]

Can't wait to watch this movie,

[brassplayersrock²]

I just had an spooky thought. What if the tv show Heroes is actually a documentary and everything happening is real, and then they'll be like, haha, we fooled you. This is what the human race will evolve into.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Wrong. Humans are just another variable in the environment acting on other organisms and causing them to adapt. In our case, we directly affect our environment and, in some cases, can control how we ourselves adapt.

I don't think so. For example, one might argue that with our exploration of the seas we might eventually evolve to survive better underwater. This is going to be hampered by the use of subs. They allow us to survive with no pressures (literally and figuratively) at a great depth.

We have machines and tools that prevent us from evolving because their entire job is to allow us not to feel any pressure in other settings.

One could argue that we'll have to evolve to better use the tools (maybe higher order brain functions), but I'd argue that we'll end up making tools easier and easier to use, and robotics and AI's will only make this more complicated when we start sending machines to do our job for us, taking us out of the equation entirely.

[Cipher13]

An understanding of evolution should be a requirement for participation in this thread.

I'm leaving before I yell at somebody.

[moonmonkey]

This is blatantly some propaganda from the pro evolution camp who are trying to back track and say its stopped. Obviously attempting to cover up the fact that they have found out that the creationists were correct all along.
or not.

[Andrew Stephens]

Like that guy who said history was over.

[channel John Dvorak "That's a crock" [/channel John Dvorak]

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Apparently I'm the perfect made-to-order person.

There was no mention of pokey-motorcycle in the description.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I thought that said "mail order person".

Its MALE order person, and its for Oisin.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Its MALE order person, and its for Oisin.

Hey, what’d I do? I wasn’t even there!

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

You don't enjoy my multi-touch capabilities?

Creepy, but effective come back.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

If we decided to spread to other planets we could again become isolated and adapt to a new environment.

goMac got to it before I could.

Originally Posted by goMac 

We have machines and tools that prevent us from evolving because their entire job is to allow us not to feel any pressure in other settings.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

An understanding of evolution should be a requirement for participation in this thread.

I'm leaving before I yell at somebody.

A limit on the arrogance of a person should be a requirement for participation on these fora.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

That's hardly evolution. It's more like devolution.

There's no such thing. If a species is changing, it's evolution.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

There's no such thing. If a species is changing, it's evolution.

Depends on your perspective.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Um, USA Today - Researchers: Human evolution speeding up

Maybe it's speeding up in the USA (today) even while it has stopped in the UK

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Maybe it's speeding up in the USA (today) even while it has stopped in the UK

The bubonic plague is some of the most recent evidence to support evolution by natural selection, as some people were immune to it via a mutation in their genes (which, coincidentally, also makes them immune to HIV.)

So if there is ever a plague on that scale again, lots of people will die, probably some will live, and those that survived will pass on that beneficial gene to future generations.

In the words of Bill Nye, "It's science!"

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Can't wait to watch this movie,

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Maybe it's speeding up in the USA (today) even while it has stopped in the UK

Nahh. It's progressing rapidly here. I swear I saw General Ursus driving a Mondeo the other day.

[el chupacabra]

evolution doesn't stop. human intelligence is clearly going down as we adapt to our new environment of which doesn't require any critical thinking. Most mutations are negative and such is the case now with our degenerating brains when no selection pressure is being exerted.

"Oh my god! Whats this on the news, Georgia is being invaded?!!? my familys in atlanta are they ok?"

[brassplayersrock²]

dang you el chupacabra.... i just woke up the day I read that news article and the same thing went through my head until it clicked what the story was actually about. minus the family part.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't think so. For example, one might argue that with our exploration of the seas we might eventually evolve to survive better underwater. This is going to be hampered by the use of subs. They allow us to survive with no pressures (literally and figuratively) at a great depth.

We have machines and tools that prevent us from evolving because their entire job is to allow us not to feel any pressure in other settings.

One could argue that we'll have to evolve to better use the tools (maybe higher order brain functions), but I'd argue that we'll end up making tools easier and easier to use, and robotics and AI's will only make this more complicated when we start sending machines to do our job for us, taking us out of the equation entirely.

Clearly people don't understand evolution. This above post fails to take account of the principles of evolution, and the most important one being adaptation.

For example, the use of a sub IS our way of adapting to, for instance, living in the sea. It might not be from some jury rigged design, or some noticable physiological change, but it is a way for us to adapt to our external environment: a way for us to SURVIVE our environment and not die off. That is the essence of evolution: organisms that can adapt will live on, those that can't will die off. In our case, because we are "relatively" intelligent, we are able to find ways of surviving environments that are harmful to us, within very short time periods, whereas other organisms would simply die and cease to exist.

The reason we made it through everything in the history of this planet is because we have 1 trait that was the most important one of them all: intelligence. The highest intelligence of any living creature.

Also, one must take into consideration that their lifetime is very short, so saying that you don't "see" evolution happening for humans is simplistic and irresponsible. We have evolved from Apes, we are smarter and more streamlined. It is only natural that this trend continue, and it is continuing.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Evolution depends on the species being pressured by natural elements. Because we're no longer pressured, I'd agree, evolution has stopped.

QED.

*human* evolution in developed nations has stopped. The majority of the world's human population might still be evolving since they face greater pressures than we do. I'd agree the the original statement that we might actually be de-evolving in the developed nations.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't think so. For example, one might argue that with our exploration of the seas we might eventually evolve to survive better underwater.

We would only be able to do so if there were a survival need for living under water. What would cause us to evolve for under water survival? Or, rather, what would cause females to choose male mates for their underwater survival genetic mutations?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

There's no such thing. If a species is changing, it's evolution.

True, although we've taken "evolution" to imply "improvement"

[Kerrigan]

I think that this forum has stopped along with evolution. Very little activity today.

[- - e r i k - -]

I blame the economy.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

*human* evolution in developed nations has stopped.

Absolutely not.

There is still, and always will be, tremendous selective pressure, both socially imposed, (such as for physical traits), and health-related (e.g. your chances of passing your genes on into the gene pool are drastically diminished if you happen to die of obesity-related illnesses, or an allergic shock, or an asthma attack, before you reproduce).

As society changes, so do selective pressures affecting the chances of reproduction. Evolution continues as strongly as it ever has.

[- - e r i k - -]

You do bring up an interesting point. As natural pressures are eased by technology, societal pressures take over. It should be interesting in retrospective to see if the zeitgeist would influence us as much as environmental pressures ever did.

My hunch is that it is a much weaker pressure though. Too fluctuating.

[Uncle Skeleton]

People, our inventions don't obviate evolution, they are part of it. Just think: has a snail "stopped evolving" because it has learned to live inside a shell, allowing it to become all squishy and soft? Has a beaver "stopped evolving" because it has learned to build a dam and live inside it, allowing it to stop fighting off predators and competitors? No. These animals' mastery of tools is part of their evolution, not opposed to it, even though without them it has made those animals objectively softer and weaker. Our strength in numbers plays the same way; have bees "stopped evolving" because their elaborate social structure has allowed their autonomy and executive function to atrophy? No. Their social network is their evolution, it's not "stopping" it.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...scientist.html



I'm not sure I buy that. I popped into town the other day and the aforementioned goblins appeared to be losing their wits before my very eyes.

Discuss.

No evolution hasn't stopped. I am feeling a tingling in my hand that sometimes manifests into a flaming powerball and my brain has started to accept some emails when I am in range of a wifi router.

[olePigeon]

You guys realize that the result of this study implies that older men need to hook up with younger women to ensure genetic diversity... so... *clears throat* Yeah, evolution's stopped. I need young, attractive women in the name of science!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

You do bring up an interesting point. As natural pressures are eased by technology, societal pressures take over. It should be interesting in retrospective to see if the zeitgeist would influence us as much as environmental pressures ever did.

My hunch is that it is a much weaker pressure though. Too fluctuating.

It's the only factor that explains human hairlessness and actual breasts rather than small teats.