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jonny05 · Mar 11, 2003, 03:47 PM

Hi All,

I'm looking for a new 17" monitor to replace my aging Applevision 1710 and am tempted by the Apple 17" LCD and the Sony X72.

Whatever I get, I'll be using it with my PMG4 (Sawtooth/AGP) and ATI Rage 128 Pro (with an adaptor for the Apple LCD). Will need to upgrade from OS9.1 to OS9.2.2 I think, too.

A few quick questions:

1. Would anyone who has a G4/Rage 128 Pro with the Apple or Sony care to share their experience? It would be great to hear about reliability/ease of setup and use, colour accuracy, and response times.

2. The Apple costs more -- is the panel any better than the Sony's?

3. I'm unsure about which Apple Display is the newer model - M7649ZM/B, right?

Thanks in advance

Jonny05

hardcat1970 · Mar 11, 2003, 05:38 PM

I would recommend the apple 17" for its look and crispy images it delivers. The apple 17" also gives you 2 USB ports. The only downside for apple monitor is the one year warranty. Sony's display is good also. It really depends on your personal favorite.

jonny05 · Mar 12, 2003, 03:56 PM

Is the Apple worth the premium over the Sony in terms of colour, brightness, response, and ease of setup?

Jonny05

emdash · Mar 12, 2003, 04:35 PM

I have the Sawtooth 450 / RAGE 128 / DVIator / 17" Studio display setup and love it to pieces! Call me crazy, but having an Apple-looking monitor is important to me.

I did have problems when initially installing it, though -- I had to boot from CD and muck around with the extensions, remove a few that made the display not work (I believe they were Radeon drivers or something). But now everything's hunky dory, and it's been rock-solid for the past 1.5 years.

No stuck pixels, the color's wonderful, etc., etc. I love my Studio Display!

jonny05 · Mar 13, 2003, 03:37 PM

Sweet! I'm definitely tempted. Does anyone have experience with the Sony X72 17" panel?

jonny05 · Mar 14, 2003, 06:03 PM

<bump>

schalliol · Mar 15, 2003, 04:15 AM

Not that particular unit, but people seem to be excited by the Formac 17 and the Samsung 17 units. A search here will help you.

jonny05 · Mar 16, 2003, 01:41 PM

Thanks! I'll take a look through the forums. I'm not too keen on the design of the Samsung and Formac models, as good as they may be technically speaking

derekn · Mar 16, 2003, 01:49 PM

Price wise it may be best to go with the Sony. If you go with the Apple display, you'll have to get an external power supply for it (from Dr. Bott I believe). The Sawtooth G4s don't supply enough power via the AGP slot to power the ADC displays. There was a case of that written to Macintouch and the issue was confirmed by Dr. Bott tech support. You'd have to go from ADC to DVI and then back to ADC with their external ADC box or something. I'll try to find the letter on Macintouch.

derekn · Mar 16, 2003, 01:57 PM

Here we go:
http://www.macintouch.com/cinemadisplays02.html

Just do a search for Sawtooth, there are a few letters regarding it and the Cinema displays.

schalliol · Mar 16, 2003, 02:27 PM

Keep in mind that if you wish to do a dual monitor setup that the thinnest bezel I have seen is from Samsung. So if you get one now and add one later, as many people do, you will have a more seemless display system.

tr · Mar 16, 2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by derekn:
Price wise it may be best to go with the Sony. If you go with the Apple display, you'll have to get an external power supply for it (from Dr. Bott I believe). The Sawtooth G4s don't supply enough power via the AGP slot to power the ADC displays. There was a case of that written to Macintouch and the issue was confirmed by Dr. Bott tech support. You'd have to go from ADC to DVI and then back to ADC with their external ADC box or something. I'll try to find the letter on Macintouch.

not only don't the old sawtooths supply the 24V to ADC, old sawtooths didn't even have ADC! ADC didn't exist when sawtooths came out. and the video cards in sawtooths didn't even have DVI ports, just VGA.

to run a new apple display on a sawtooth, you could just buy anapple DVI-ADC adapter, but then i guess you'd need an adapter, like VGA-DVI, since you want to use your Rage 128. don't even know if that would work, or if an adapter exists. a DVI-VGA adapter works, because the analog signal is taken from the computer DVI signal. for a VGA-DVI adapter, you'd have to 'convert' an analog signal into digital...doesn't sound too promising.

jonny05, honestly, have you thought of just getting a new video card? i had a Rage in my sawtooth, then i bought a PC Radeon 8500 and flashed it. it made a pretty noticeable difference. i mean, even a cheaper video card will be better than the Rage, and it will probably have DVI, so you could run non-apple flat panels just fine, and apple displays with the above mentioned apple adapter.

tr

derekn · Mar 16, 2003, 09:00 PM

Yeah I suffered some brain fade when I posted that. LOL Saw Sawtooth and an ADC display and remembered that note on Macintouch, after I posted it I realized there was a Rage 128 in there.

jonny05 · Mar 16, 2003, 11:59 PM

Unless I've overlooked something, my video card *does* have DVI onboard, so I could use a Studio Display through the Apple DVI-ADC adaptor.

After looking around the forums, it seems like the Sony isn't that popular amongst MacNN members. Strange...

Jonny

emdash · Mar 17, 2003, 04:27 PM

To clarify: Yes, the RAGE 128 that shipped in the Sawtooths *does* have a DVI port.

One VGA, one DVI, not usable simultaneously.

Athens · Mar 17, 2003, 04:33 PM

I skiped most of the posts, Apple displays are the best, I like NEC's more then Sony's

BrettOZ · Mar 17, 2003, 11:57 PM

I too have a Sawtooth and was looking at LCD monitors, I think I will go with a Sony.

The main reason is I don't have to by an Adaptor to use the monitor.

Here is the model:
http://www.sony.com.au/product_detai...ProdCod=SDMX72

It has 3 inputs (1xDVI and 2xVGA) - easily selectable by a button on the front of the monitor, gives me another port to plug in my iBook

jonny05 · Mar 18, 2003, 04:08 PM

Hey BrettOZ, how about giving us a few thoughts on your new monitor when it arrives? I'd *really* appreciate it.

Jonny05

tr · 05:27 PM

Originally posted by emdash:
To clarify: Yes, the RAGE 128 that shipped in the Sawtooths *does* have a DVI port.

One VGA, one DVI, not usable simultaneously.

whoops! yep, that's what i should've said!

one monitor that i've heard people talk about is the Samsung 172. personally, i kinda like this 172T, it's got a pretty versatile base.

tr

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 07:03 PM

jonny05, no problems. As soon as I can get the $$$ together I will let you know, still getting over the purchase of the iBook at the moment

But I do like the Sony, have lusted over it in the Sony Central store, it does look very good (image quality) even compared to the Apple models.

Someone out there must have one of these on their desks out there already ???

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 07:11 PM

I looked at the Sonys but the Samsungs looked better at Fry's than both the Sony and Apple units and for not that much more I could get the 19 Samsung.

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 08:07 PM

Does the Samsung have the same input options? 19" does sound good

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 08:16 PM

Yup, search for my name and you'll see the 19 I have, there's good mention in the Power Mac Picture page as well as pics of my setup, perhaps on the last or second to last page. It's a Dell 1900FP, but it was the same exact thing for cheaper at the time (there may be a modification on the VESA base, if there's any difference at all).

I have front switchable inputs between DVI and HD-15.

...oh yeah, i bought two of them and because of Samsung's tiny bezel there's not much breakage of the field of view. Seems sorta like a video wall, very nice.

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 08:33 PM

I see the specs on the Samsung has a very high Contrast ratio - I take it that is why they look so pretty when you look at em??

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 08:46 PM

I think that's part of it, it's excellent contrast

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 08:50 PM

Well there is a lot of junk out there on the Market, Big size does not always mean good quality

As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for!

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
Well there is a lot of junk out there on the Market, Big size does not always mean good quality

Exactly, as such, dont get an Apple display (esp if you don't have ADC). They're good, but they don't have very wonderful specs and are pricey. Also, don't get any LCD without a DVI or ADC port. Compare specs too.

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 10:13 PM

It is interesting, as Apple was one of the first to jump in Boots and All into the flat panel gear, looks like competition has caught up and the prices are also making the Apple product look a little inferior (did I just say that? )

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 10:39 PM

You did say it and it's totally true. Apple isn't offering more than the competition and doesn't do as well and is more expensive...not to mention that PC users couldn't buy them if they wanted (yeah yeah, they could pay $99 more for an adapter), there's no ability to hook up a second unit to switch between them, no extra color calibration, nothin...ooooooh, 1 cable for power and display signal, gee that's a big deal. See, you can't even hook up a PowerBook to it, silly.

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 10:44 PM

I am surprised they use their own type of connector, I thought they learnt their lesson a while back about using proprietry gear

If they stuck with DVI it may have given them more exposure to that PC market. I do like the 1 cable idea, but does it really make it worth the xtra dollars? I think not.

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 11:12 PM

EXACTLY

I get a huge laugh when I look at this table of video adapters: Knowledge Base Adapter

BrettOZ · Mar 18, 2003, 11:46 PM

Never seen that page before - that is funny!

schalliol · Mar 18, 2003, 11:51 PM

You would think they'd have learned.

BrettOZ · Mar 19, 2003, 12:15 AM

The other thing that scares me is that they are heading back to multiple product lines, the 4 square theory sounded so good at the time, now you have so many options:

iMac CRT (although, think gone now?)
eMac
imac TFT 15"
iMac TFT 17 "
iBook 12"
iBook 14"
PB 12"
PB 15"
PB 17"
Powermac G4...... well you get where I am going.

In one way it gives the customer more options, but remember when Apple had all of those machine models out on the market in the 90's - it is slowly creeping back there..

schalliol · Mar 19, 2003, 12:23 AM

iMac is gone everywhere but in education.

Well the thing that helps Apple now is that so much of the business is direct. You won't have the massive inventory you once did at retail stores. I see your point though. Perhaps Apple is just getting better at managing this. You'll note that they have a new Xserve "clustering node" out today (see Power Mac forum)....but I digress.

BrettOZ · Mar 19, 2003, 12:45 AM

I think inventory is the key, I remember reading a while back when they had a couple of days worth in all areas, however that now seems to be blowing out a little. Although I think you are right the management of the product does help.

It is a real shame the education market was lost to Dell, but I am sure they are working really hard on this one!

jonny05 · Mar 21, 2003, 09:13 PM

Hmm. So nobody's used the Sony X72 (see above) then?

schalliol · Mar 21, 2003, 09:22 PM

I've been following this forum for quite some time as I made my purchases in December and I keep watching. I haven't seen anyone mention having a new Sony LCD, I guess they may not be as cost effective or something. If I didn't see the Samsung/Dell 19's I would have gotten 2 of the Sony 18's though.

jonny05 · Mar 28, 2003, 05:38 PM

Well, I took the plunge and got the Sony -- and I'm impressed! I couldn't be bothered with the ADC adaptor/firmware update/expense involved with the Studio Display, and it looks like I chose well.

The Sony (X72) is less than 500GBP, and compares very well with the Apple, Samsung etc on looks. Colour and contrast are great, response times are fine, build quality is solid, and there's a 3 year warranty compared to the Apple's 1 year.

Overall, money well spent

schalliol · Mar 28, 2003, 05:43 PM

Excellent, so you like it at home? Could you post a pic?

jonny05 · Mar 28, 2003, 07:35 PM

I don't have a digital camera, but there are some pics of the thing here:
http://www.sony-cp.com/en/press_awar...lcd/index.html
(scroll down to X series)

...and some info here:
http://www.sony-cp.com/en/products/l...x72/index.html

It blends in with the rest of the room better than some of the competition, which for me are a bit too techy looking.

Jon

schalliol · Mar 28, 2003, 07:50 PM

Looks sweet!

jonny05 · Mar 28, 2003, 08:02 PM

Yup.

BrettOZ · Mar 30, 2003, 06:40 PM

jonny05

Congrats on your purchase, can I ask you one question about the new monitor...

How does it go with Quicktime Video, any shadows or dropped frames etc ? I am just curious because of the response time spec??

jonny05 · Apr 1, 2003, 04:09 PM

BrettOZ,

I've watched DVDs on it, and it's perfectly fine.

I have heard that the newer Samsung, NEC, Sony etc. LCDs are all quicker than the Apples, and I've not heard of any major annoyances with video on those -- there are quite a few editors who use the Cinema Display for Final Cut Pro/Avid/whatever.

At the risk of stating the obvious, if you have the Sony on sale in your area, get a demo -- I did. Personal preference counts for a lot.

Jonny05

BrettOZ · Apr 1, 2003, 06:19 PM

Thanks for the info. A demo is certainly the go, the only bad thing is it is hard to find a Mac in the same store as the monitor

It would be nice to try it out on a Mac, but if windoze is all they have, then I guess I will have to go with that for the demo.

schalliol · Apr 1, 2003, 06:27 PM

Just make sure you're using DVI. The video splitters that drives lots of displays suck.