[pete]

Just called Apple to get service for my powerbook G4 DVI under warranty. It indicates that I have an hour left of battery time and then goes into sleep mode. I've tried resetting pram, reinstalling system but no good. Anyway, the guys asks me if I have apple care extended service. I say no. He then says that I can pay for per incident support. I ask him how come I have to pay to get something repaired under warranty. he replies that he doesn't know and then asks me to hold. He comes back and says that he can send me a replacement battery but he doesn't know if it'll fix the problem. I ask him again how people are supposed to get warranty repairs without first telling somebody what the issue is. He says he doesn't know. I tell him that that's very interesting. You have a free warranty period of one year but in order to use it you need to buy an extended warranty for another two years. This just doesn't make sense.

I told him I don't want a support conversation. I've done troubleshooting myself. I just want a repair....

So they're sending me a new battery. Hope it works because I don't know how to get it repaired unless I am allowed to tell somebody what the issue is. And I DON"T (refuse) to pay them to allow me to use my first year warranty.

I've had lots of encounters with Apple over the years, and this is the first time I've dealt with this. What's going on? Is this what we're going to have to deal with, or was it a one time incident?

[spaced]

Originally posted by pete:
I've had lots of encounters with Apple over the years, and this is the first time I've dealt with this. What's going on? Is this what we're going to have to deal with, or was it a one time incident?

Yes, after your first 90 days of "complimentary" tech support, you can no longer call the AppleCare support line without paying a per-incident charge. Sometimes the techs on the other line will work with you to replace a part which is obviously broken and under warranty without charge, but they will not give you tech support.

After the 90 days but before your 1 year hardware warranty is up, you have to go an Apple-authorized repair center or Apple Store to have your machine assessed for warranty repairs.

The 90-day tech support and 1-year hardware warranty basically have nothing to do with each other. I'm sorry that you're so upset but this seems obvious to me.

[jonny05]

You have the right to a repair under the warranty if it's not operating as reasonably expected. It's the law.

Maybe the guy you spoke to just wasn't thinking straight at the time...

[spaced]

Originally posted by jonny05:
You have the right to a repair under the warranty if it's not operating as reasonably expected. It's the law.

Maybe the guy you spoke to just wasn't thinking straight at the time...

I assess that the tech he spoke with was not only thinking straight but went over and above what he was expected to do by sending pete a new battery without collecting a per-incident charge.

Pete has the right to have it repaired under warranty at an Apple-authorized repair specialist, but Apple does not have to give him toll-free technical support when the materials that come with the computer clearly indicate 90 days of free technical support. If you didn't like the tech support policy, you should have either purchased a different brand of computer or purchased AppleCare. It's all there in black and white.

Mac users are a whiny bunch.

[7Macfreak]

um.. ok i've got tech support over the phone a couple of times. and i'm very sure its been over and out of the 1 year warranty period even. of course it was only diagnosing the problem, but he also gave me options and pricings. so pete is right.. he shouldn't have asked for a per-incident charge before assessing the problem.

but again, i had my powerbook taken to an authorized dealer first.

[pete]

Hmmm....although apple has had the 90 day policy in place for a long time now, I've always been able to call and get warranty service without a hitch. I suppose they want you to go to the service provider so that people don't send in things that aren't faulty. Anyway, never any trouble before today, that's why I ask. It's hard to get warranty service anywhere without first discussing the issue with somebody. Not all service providers offer that service without a fee.

Also, what if you live too far from a service provider?Are you just screwed then?

Seems to me this doesn't make much sense. Call me a whiner if you want, but I think my response is both logical and reasonable.

[dreilly1]

I always thought that the 90-day telephone support was much broader than the warranty support. For instance, things like "How do I get onto the Intar-web" and "Thanks for including the cupholder. Now where do I put the DVD into the computer?" would only be covered for 90 days without getting into the per-incident pricing.

But I would expect that if you have a legitimate warranty claim, you should expect Apple to resolve it, no matter how you contact them.

Then again, Phillips TiVos are advertised as having a one-year warranty, but it turns out that you can only get free warranty service for the first 90 days, then there is a charge associated with getting your Phillips TiVo fixed, even due to a manufacturing defect. But in that case, TiVo and Phillips don't charge for the phone support itself, just for the warranty repair, and there are no "Phillips-Authorized" service centers either...

[PoisonTooth]

Apple's "warranty" policy is utterly and embarrassingly ridiculous.

[biosphere]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:
Apple's "warranty" policy is utterly and embarrassingly ridiculous.

Amen.

[Mobile Mod]

I am an authorized reseller and i can tell you what pete was dealing with. Basically the free 90 days of tech support are there for the simple questions and maybe some others that more advanced users have about their computer. The one year warranty only covers the hardware, and becasue of this apple wont let people just call them up after the 90 days and say they have a hardware problem, without discussing it first. What im trying to say is that if they take your CC info and then you talk to them, and it is found to be hardware, AND ONLY HARDWARE, they WILL NOT charge the CC. This 'per-incident' charge is only there so that you'll know that if you try and abuse your warranty you'll get charged.

Justin

[Mohammed Al-Sabah]

i still think apple should have a better deal.. just remmber that we are tthere only customers there is ONE apple company and they have 10000000000's of competitors so the service they offer should be the best... thats if they want to keep what they have

[gator]

Mobile Mod is correct. If it's between 90 days and 1 year, they take CC info, notify you that if the problem isn't HW related, they charge you the $49 incident charge or whatever it is. If it is hardware related, they open up an incident for you and take it from there (since the 1 year warranty does cover parts). I went through the same process a while back in getting a new battery to replace my defunct iBook battery, and it solved the problem. I assume that it will solve the problem for you as well, Pete.

[swsteckly]

Whenever I've had a hardware problem, I always go through giving them phone number, serial number, name, etc. Then the guy says that my tech support is expired. I say that it's an obvious hardware defect, and they always troubleshoot a few things and then send me a new part or put through a service order.

In the last two years or so, I always talk to the same guy, and he puts service orders and everything else right through, no questions asked.

[PeterKG]

While I was having problems with my 12" Powerbook, when I would call Apple they were pushing AppleCare on me, even though I was still under 90 days. It's the first thing they have been asking.

I tell them I don't ever call for technical support on software issues, because I think I know more then most of them how to problem solve an issue. Hell, you can get more help coming to a forum!

I am so unhappy with AppleCare service, the last thing I want to do is buy it. The whole experience of dealing with them has left a bad taste in my mouth for them.

[bradoesch]

I called Apple support after my 90 days and they diagnosed and helped me through a software problem. At the time I thought I had one year of tech support (I thought that was what a 1 year warranty meant.) They asked when I bought the machine and such, so they know I was past my 90 days. Mostly I was curious about what it's like to call Apple support. I had called IBM support a few times (lots of trouble with PCs...) and they spoke very bad English and weren't very helpful. The Apple tech was helpful and I could understand what he was saying.

[swsteckly]

I am always pleased whenever I deal with Apple support - but lately, I have been disappointed with their pushing of AppleCare. In the past, they would suggest it, but after you have your answer, that was that. But recently they seem to be pushing it. I personally think that that puts them at the same level as a Best Buy or something pushing their warranty plans. It really does look bad.

I have had five hardware PowerBook repairs over the years, all handled with my satisfaction. Two times they went above and beyond what they needed to do. Once they replaced a severely scratched bottom cover on a Ti for no known reason. Also, once they replaced the 'rim' on the Ti because of a slight paint chip which I didn't even attempt to have them repair, even though it was their policy to do so at the time.

Six times I have participated in their Customer-Installable Parts (CIP) program, where they send you a replacement part, taking your credit card a collateral so that you will send the defective one prepaid within a certain timeframe. The program has been wonderful, and I have never had any problems. Recently they lowered the timeframe for returning the defective part to ten days (NOT ten weekdays), which, although it is plenty of time to take advantage of the overnight shipping included, I came within three days of the deadline once because of holidays (which I have confirmed that they do count as part of the ten days). No big deal, of course.

Here's my repair history:

Wallstreet 233 12": Replaced worn backup battery

Wallstreet 233 12": Received replacement battery (CIP)

Wallstreet 233 12": Received replacement media drive module (CIP)

Wallstreet 233 12": Received replacement power adapter (Recalled - CIP)

Wallstreet 233 12": Replaced broken PC-Card slot

Pismo 400 14": Received replacement battery (CIP)

Pismo 400 14": Received replacment keyboard (CIP)

Ti 400: Replaced LCD with four dead pixels

Ti 400: Replaced LCD/Logic Board due to defective display connector

Ti 400: Fixed misaligned frame (causing media drive problems)

Ti 550: Replaced LCD case due to a constant pressure-point deflection caused by me - but fixed under warranty

Ti 800: No repairs

17": Received replacement power adapter (CIP)

iMac FP 15" 700 Combo: Received replacement keyboard (not mine, but I handled the repair - CIP)

iPod 20GB - Received replacement unit after unknown failure

I know, it sounds like a lot of repairs for just a few items, but I have been quite happy with the build quality of Apple products. Remember that these PowerBooks are in use 12-18 hours daily, continously. The iMac isn't mine, and it's used little. A key went dead on it for an unknown reason.

I have been satisfied each time I have dealt with Apple repair. Twice I have encountered parts backorders when I sent the computer in. One lasted three weeks, one lasted nine. Each other time the repair was completed in exactly four business days, from the day I called. The iPod was out of stock for three weeks (I received a unit with brand-new outside case, but refurbished internals), and the power adapter for the 17" was backordered for one week.

I always purchase AppleCare when I plan on keeping a machine over a year, which I rarely do. It's great because a single repair can pay for it multiple times over. I don't have a lot of need for telephone support - I haven't called on a non-hardware issue for two years, due to my increasing knowledge and OS X's stability/reliability.

By the way, apple let me keep both of the keyboards (Pismo and iMac). Noone knew exactly why, but one representative ventured to say that it was becuase of 'sanitary concerns' and 'no components usable by apple'.

Sorry to bore you with this long-winded report, but I thought someone could be interested.

[pete]

Well, I got the battery today, which is pretty impressive given that I talked to them yesterday afternoon. We'll see if it will solve the problem....

Still though...

[pete]

the new battery did solve the problem. OVerall a good service experience....

[Crusoe]

Extended Service Plans (AppleCare) are big money makers, that's why apple is pushing it. While working as a Sales Rep for Computer City many years ago, the overall profit made off service plans was above 70%. The majority of computers run without a hitch for well over 3 years.

Plus I got 10% of the value of the service plan. $2000 computer with a $100 spiff and $20 for selling the service plan made for an easy $120. Ahh the glory days of consumer computer sells.

[PoisonTooth]

By industry standards, Apple has a very weak warranty policy.

[jopasm]

Originally posted by Mohammed Al-Sabah:
i still think apple should have a better deal.. just remmber that we are tthere only customers there is ONE apple company and they have 10000000000's of competitors so the service they offer should be the best... thats if they want to keep what they have

The problem is they aren't the best, by a long shot. Now admittedly I'm a little upset at the moment. You see, I have a 15" Powerbook. I bought applecare in January. I called the Apple Store, they looked up my serial number and assured me I would be covered (I had waited until nearly the last minute).

A couple of months later I start having serious problems - battery will only last an hour (if I'm lucky), paint flaking worse, etc. I call to see about getting the problems fixed and I'm informed that I don't have applecare coverage because I didn't buy it in time. They'll refund the purchase price of my applecare package but that's it.

So here I am. Stuck with a computer that's barely over a year old and is rapidly becoming a doorstop. This is the first Macintosh I've ever owned. There's an excellent chance it will be the last - because Apple, as a compnay, obviously doesn't care about their customers once they've bought the product. I don't have time to call and argue with a tech support guy over and over just to get a simple extended warranty coverage. Next time I'll buy a Dell and just deal with Windows XP simply because I can't afford to buy a new Mac every year since they seem to self-destruct once the warranty period is up.

[active]

Over in the UK, we don't have 'toll free' tech support, even within the first 90 days.

I've had real problems with Apple lately. They've gone very pro-active on trying to sell AppleCare extended warranties and become rather rude, even if you've bought a system that has been reported faulty since purchase.

For instance, I bought a 1Ghz PowerBook in Dec 2002, reported it faulty within the first 7 days and then spent 2 months trying various things (at Apple's request) to try and fix the problems.

After 90 days they still weren't fixed so I decided that it definitely needs to go back for repair. Guess what? Apple support not only wanted me to pay a per-incident report fee, they also asked for me to pay to return the faulty product - even though they had on record that the product was faulty from new.

The Tech Support guy was so rude he even said 'here ends our conversation', simply as I argued that I wasn't going to pay to report a problem I've reported (and being reporting) for the last 2+ months.

I can understand the push to encourage people to buy extended warranties, but Apple seem to have taken this too far.

Chris.

Pete has the right to have it repaired under warranty at an Apple-authorized repair specialist, but Apple does not have to give him toll-free technical support when the materials that come with the computer clearly indicate 90 days of free technical support. If you didn't like the tech support policy, you should have either purchased a different brand of computer or purchased AppleCare. It's all there in black and white.

Mac users are a whiny bunch.

[jopasm]

I've had real problems with Apple lately. They've gone very pro-active on trying to sell AppleCare extended warranties and become rather rude, even if you've bought a system that has been reported faulty since purchase.
[/B]

I've heard "Apple's worst enemy is Apple" many times and I'm certainly seeing how it's true. I can definately say that after my experience I certainly won't be recommending Apple computers to anybody I know or work for - it's too hit and miss as to whether or not they'll fix a problem with their hardware. The old criticism seems to be coming true - Apple machines seem to be crappy hardware in pretty shells.

I *might* be willing to give them one more chance if the new revision of the 15" Powerbook absolutely blows me away. It had better be awesome though - something that can take on a shiny new Centrino based Intel system and blow it away on *raw power* or it's just not worth dealing with the hassle.

Sure, OS X is very nice. Unfortunately the quality control on their hardware and customer support seems to be non-existent and a nice OS isn't very useful when the hardware is always broken.

[cambro]

Originally posted by jopasm:
The old criticism seems to be coming true - Apple machines seem to be crappy hardware in pretty shells.

Easy there killer...

It sucks you've had a bad experience. You should raise hell and Apple should make every effort to satisfy you and all of their customers. Shame on them if they treat you with anything but respect.

That said, don't you think you are a little over the top on that one?? I think it goes without saying that thousands and thousands of Macs out there are doing lots of work without narry a problem for their whole lives. I know I've had 5 in my family (3 PBs, an iBook, and an eMac) that have performed without a hitch and without extended Apple Care despite use and abuse!

Message boards are full of raves of love and rages of hate against Apple's service and every other manufacturer warrantee service. I'd guess it averages out to be, well, average for most companies no matter how bad an individual sample of one case might be.

[Mac Zealot]

lol the beauty of apple is I find a new disgruntled customer daily...

I don't see disgruntled PC users daily... I see one maybe once or twice a week... and that's when I see about 10 times more PC users than mac users!

And you call that right?

As embarassing as this might sound.. my PC is MORE RELIABLE then my g4.. and I'm not joking.

So finally I complain to apple and narrow down my crash problems.. the way I buy cmputers I can't afford to upgrade this one right now.. you know what they tell me?

They won't cover the RAM in my g4 because it was replaced by a service provider.

And yeah, I've been stonewalled before (the "here ends our call") thing.

what gets me is the arrogance and attitude of those people.. And to be frank, even for something SIMPLE I am always dissapointed after I call.

There was only ONE TIME, I say that yes, ONE TIME, when I was impressed after I hung up, why? Something actually happened.

Usually half the damn call is spent trying to confuse me, they like to jumble things up, they act like morons, they blame it on totally unrelated things, etc.. and finally

"I'm sorry I can't do anything for you"

"yeah you're sorry alright.. I bet you'd be just as sorry if a mouse got ran over by a car"

[suprz's ghost]

I have dealt with apple's tech support and i have to say honestly that if i had to pay for it, i would be pissed. the last time i called tech support for my recently purchased ibook 700 the response to my problem was "i have no idea, just do a archive and install from the OSX cd"

and to this day, the initial problem has not been solved. now granted it is only that the operating system refuses to recognize the internal combo drive, and allow me to burn cd's. however i can use toast to burn so i really dont care. and other than not being able to burn cd's the combo drive works perfectly. I did some investigating and discovered the combo drive in my 700 is a toshiba and is rated to burn at 16x (and i have burned at 16x using toast) while apple specs tell me that the 700 can only burn at a max of 8x. so evidently the refurbished ibook i have, went in for a bad combo drive and apple used a 16 instead of a 8 and the operating system for some reason refuses to see it. but the point is that the tech person refused to believe that and refused to tell me if that is what the ibook was refurbished for. so overall i've never had to use the warranty (knocks wood) but the tech support sucks IMHO, and i wouldnt pay for it