[nycdunz]

i am playing the sims 2 on my 30" cinema, and even on highest resolution 2048x1536, all settings max, it still runs choppy... and i have 4.5gb ram on a powermac dual 2.7ghz... with a ati 9650...

was wondering if it would make a noticeable difference in performance and make things run a lot smoother if i were to get one of those cards? if so, ill spend the $400 or $500, if not... i'll just wait. anyone? please...

[Leonard]

They're roughly about the same in performance. Save yourself some money and get the X800XT.

Actually for gaming the X800XT is better as it has a software (a control panel) to adjust settings for the game, like FSAA.

[nycdunz]

what is FSAA? does anyone have the specs on the ati radeon 9650, i would like to compare it to the x800 xt and the nvidia 6800 ultra...

would really want the sims 2 to run smooth

[Al G]

I don't have any specs at my fingertips but just to give you a rough idea, I think the 9800XT is about double the 3d performance of the 9650, and the X800XT is about double the performance of the 9800XT.

[nycdunz]

wow, that should be a huge improvement, wow...

i also heard that the regular ati radeon 9600 is even faster than the ati 9650, is this true?

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by nycdunz

wow, that should be a huge improvement, wow...

i also heard that the regular ati radeon 9600 is even faster than the ati 9650, is this true?

Here is a link to a MacWorld benchmark:

http://www.macworld.com/2005/05/news...arks/index.php

[Markarian421]

Also see:

http://www.barefeats.com/rad9650.html

and

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/16/doom3/index.php

Ultra vs. X800 deems to depend on the game, they are quite close.

Indeed the first review says:

The Radeon 9650 does support the 30" Cinema display with its one Dual-Link DVI port and has 256MB of DDR memory, but it is actually clocked slower (and runs slower) than the Radeon 9600 XT with 128MB of DDR and a normal DVI port.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by nycdunz

what is FSAA?

Full Scene Anti-Aliasing.

Originally Posted by nycdunz

does anyone have the specs on the ati radeon 9650, i would like to compare it to the x800 xt and the nvidia 6800 ultra...

The 9650 isn't even in the same class.

[UnixMac]

In some apps the X800 is faster, and in other (especially OpenGL native stuff) the 6800 is faster... The X800 is less $, so if that is very important to you, go with the X800.

[otheronenorehto]

What about if the 6800 is cheaper. Through Educational discount I can get it for $405 the X800 will cost me about $500. I won't be gaming I will be doing mostly compositing and video editing... I could probably squeeze by with 2 pci ports but 3 would be nice. Has Nvidia come out with a recent driver update? last I heard thier drivers were not quite fully optimized for the Mac...

[UnixMac]

Originally Posted by otheronenorehto

What about if the 6800 is cheaper. Through Educational discount I can get it for $405 the X800 will cost me about $500. I won't be gaming I will be doing mostly compositing and video editing... I could probably squeeze by with 2 pci ports but 3 would be nice. Has Nvidia come out with a recent driver update? last I heard thier drivers were not quite fully optimized for the Mac...

If that's the case, I would get the 6800 for sure. I think that Apple and Nv are always improving them, as they are not as well optimized as the PC version.

[otheronenorehto]

Bah I was wrong they are essentially the same price. Now the decission is hard again...

[Markarian421]

If the prices are the same I would go with the x800 (in fact in the near future I probably will!). In many reviews I have seen the x800 is recommended over the 6800. They are very close in performance, the x800 appears to slightly outperform the 6800 in desktop apps (the 6800 seems to hold a slight edge in most games) and the ATI interface is supposed to be a lot nicer. Plus, it's only one slot, and a normal length card!

---

On a different note, after looking into the various 9600's more, I found I was completely unable to find any specs on the current base 9600 in the 2.0 and 2.3 GHz models. It _isn't_ the 9600 XT that used to be standard (and which is faster than the current 9650), from the Apple numbers it looks slower. But I can't find any real specs, like core and memory speeds. Can anyone point me to those?

[k2director]

One more thing to consider:
The 6800 can drive *two* 30" Cinema Displays at once, but the X800 can't. It can drive a 30", but its other display connector is the ADC variety, so you can't hook a 30" up to that second connector.

If you like the idea of ever having dual 30" displays, the 6800 is the only card that can do it.

[hpence]

Go with the x800 unless dual 30" displays are a future consideration. As stated before, the x800 doesnt take up 2 slots with a massive cooler like the 6800 does, and the 6800 is litterally twice the length.

as for speeds - the mac 6800 and x800 are about on par all around. The 6800 actually has slightly faster memory. 550 mhz on the 6800u vs 500mhz on the x800. The x800 has the faster core frequency, but you cant compare numbers there since differnt calls require different routines on each card (like comparing mhz on a g4 vs a g5 - not apples to apples).

Spec wise they are identical. real world performance wise the x800 seems to edge out the 6800ultra a little more - though it is always close. It depends on the application. When you see an nvidia splashscreen pop up - the 6800 will be faster. Same thing with the ATI.

the fun thing about the x800 is that you could also do on the fly overclocking with ATIcellerator2. Barefeats did it and got some pretty nice results. Excellent reading to be had here: http://www.barefeats.com/radx800.html

[Todd Madson]

Twin 30" displays? I can dream can't I? Where would I find the space?

It would be nice to see some real world tests with these, not just games but very
graphically intensive applications that utilize the graphics card (2d extreme etc).

[powertrippin]

One more thing to consider: Neither card is going to help you edit video. That's all CPU power.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

One more thing to consider: Neither card is going to help you edit video. That's all CPU power.

That would actually depend on the program.

[Peabo]

He was asking for a better card for gaming though. That would be the 6800.

[hpence]

not entirely true Zone81.

take a look at the link I posed a couple back. The x800 beat out the 6800u in all the gaming tests. Again, this is highly game dependent, but the x800 does marginally beat out the 6800u more ofthen than the reverse.

In a game like doom3 (nvidia worked with the ID programmers), the 6800u would be the better card. You'd think it would be the 6800u taking the cake in world of warcraft also (you'll notice nvidia logos in a few menus/screens), but on the mac side the x800 actually gets better frames.

The x800 wins more often with games, so take the x800 *unless* you want the dual 30" screens at full resolution. The overclocking factor with ATIcellerator2 is icing on the cake as you'll be able to easily squeeze a few more fps out of any game.

[otheronenorehto]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

One more thing to consider: Neither card is going to help you edit video. That's all CPU power.

I don't know for a fact whether FCP adresses the GPU but I am 80% sure that the compositing software I use makes use of the GPU

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by otheronenorehto

I don't know for a fact whether FCP adresses the GPU but I am 80% sure that the compositing software I use makes use of the GPU

Which is what?

[otheronenorehto]

Shake 3.0

[G5man]

GeForce 6800 is better than x800xt so I would get the GeForce 6800 cause if you want another 30 then you can get it.

[hpence]

Originally Posted by G5man

GeForce 6800 is better than x800xt so I would get the GeForce 6800 cause if you want another 30 then you can get it.

could you give us a link or tell us how you gathered this info? Not that im doubting you - ive just never seen any tests run on mac that put the 6800u above the x800 in anything but a single test or 2. Its always been kind of a grey area as to which is all-around faster, but ive seen the x800 beat the 6800 more often than not.

If you were calling the 6800 'better' based only on the dual 30" capability rather than speed, then nevermind

[G5man]

well in some ways the ATI is better but they need DDL capability

[Markarian421]

Well now Apple has added the 850 to the mix . . . still waiting to see what the specs are for the mac version.

[voo]

Im guessing it'll be two slot since the PC version has the plastic exhaust vent. Though what took Apple so long to add the high end ATI cards, even the x800xt wasn't listed to be pre-installed.

[Luca Rescigno]

According to Apple's website (emphasis mine):

ATI Radeon X850 XT
The Radeon X850 XT graphics processor provides a significant step up in graphics processing horsepower. Featuring a 16-pixel pipeline architecture and a large 256 MB DDR SDRAM frame buffer the performance metrics delivered by the X850 XT are impressive; memory bandwidth is 34.6 GB per second, over 700 million vertices and over 8 billion textured pixels per second. This advanced graphics card also includes SMARTSHADER HD, the latest in graphics programmability allowing users to experience movie-quality effects in 3D games and pro applications. The Radeon X850 XT occupies a single slot and can support a single 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display on the DVI port. The second port on the Radeon X850 XT is an Apple Display Connector (ADC port) for direct connection of Apple flat panel displays with ADC connectors.

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL
The groundbreaking NVIDIA GeForce 6800 graphics processor also features a 16-pixel pipeline architecture and support for the world's fastest GDDR3 memory to raise the bar for 3D graphics performance. The specifications for the GeForce 6800 GT DDL include memory bandwidth of 32GB per second throughput, 525 million vertices and 5.6 billion textured pixels per second. The card features NVIDIA's industry leading CineFX 3.0 technology allowing incredible special effects to be processed in real-time.

The GeForce 6800 GT GPU is built on an AGP 8X board and includes 256MB of GDDR3 memory for use in the most demanding graphics applications. The GeForce 6800 GT DDL card supports the DVI standard dual link digital signal specification on each of the two DVI ports that are included. Dual link capability is required to drive the 30-inch Apple Cinema HD display and the GeForce 6800 GT DDL can drive two of them. The combination of a GeForce 6800 GT DDL with a dual processor Power Mac G5 driving two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays is the definitive tool for the creative professional. Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL: due to larger size of this advanced graphics card, the available PCI or PCI-X slots will be reduced to two slots from three.

It looks like the X850XT is superior to the 6800GT in every way, unless you want to drive two 30" cinema displays. It's smaller, faster, more versatile, and probably quieter too (though I can't be sure). On top of that, it doesn't cost any more than the 6800GT.