[MrsLarry]

i live on a huge hill. when it snows bad, my 94 civic, just ain't cuttin it. i need something AWD, but i'm sooooo sick of everyone telling me to get a subaru, i just don't like the look of them, just my personal pref, no offense to subaru owners out there.

any suggestions?

[jasonsRX7]

I like the Volvo S40
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/newS40/

[d4nth3m4n]

A4

s40

go get the latest car and driver- there's a test of AWD sedans in there.

or get some better snow tires (NOT all seasons). you'd be amazed what you can do with FWD with good tires.,

[hickey]

unfortunately soobs arent the greatest looking cars, but my 91 legacy is a beast, never gave me a problem and it rules in the snow. Audis are super sweet also, dont know if you can find one for a good price though.

[Dakar]

Dodge Stealth

[Doofy]

Yeah, go Audi.

[mduell]

A4
S40
325xi/330xi

[Dork.]

I'm thinking of getting snows for my Jetta, since the car slips when I drive over an ice cube, and you can imagine how driving in a Rochester winter is hazardous!

Do you need to buy a new set of rims and physically swap out the tires every winter? Or can you get away with keeping the snows on in the summer?

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a total idiot with cars....

(BTW, our other car is a Subaru. I can't spinf the thing out if I tried. If you don't like how the Subarus look, look at a Saab -- they have the Subaru AWD now, or so I'm told....)

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

i live on a huge hill. when it snows bad, my 94 civic, just ain't cuttin it. i need something AWD, but i'm sooooo sick of everyone telling me to get a subaru, i just don't like the look of them, just my personal pref, no offense to subaru owners out there.

any suggestions?

Keep your Civic and get snow tires. Real snow tires.

[jebjeb]

I would also imagine that your 94 Civic is too old to have traction control. It is amazing what a decent traction control system can do (no matter how good one is with a clutch) in snow or even on sheet ice.

[macaddict0001]

just get snow tires. if you insist on awd pick the car you want but with the awd option.

[dav]

g35x

[JoshKurtz]

As soon as I saw the thread title I thought Subaru.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by JoshKurtz

As soon as I saw the thread title I thought Subaru.

I guess that means they have pretty effective marketing

[powerbook867]

3 letters..... W R X

[only120xs]

Subarus are beasts in the snow... for a new car that's probably your cheapest option too. Though as others have mentioned, there are Audi, Volvo, Infiniti, VW, Mazda6, etc.

[wdlove]

I would certainly recommend a Volvo. A very safe and solid car line. Your price range would determine the model. We have a Volvo XC 70 wagon.

[Mastrap]

Chances are you need snow tires, not an AWD car. If you do, then I like the Audis.

get a more powerful FWD or RWD car

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by Nick

get a more powerful FWD or RWD car

RWD - really?? I thought RWD was pretty much useless in bad weather? My boyfriend used to have a Camaro and it was no good in snow.

Well front or rear drive can be bad in the snow. FWD and RWD are equally "bad" in terms of starting from a stand still, assuming the car has decent weight balance. But if you have enough confidence (and power) then getting started is almost always possible.

As for going around corners and stuff, a RWD car is much easier to lose control of, if you are pressing the gas at all. That's why people say it's worse, because it can fishtail easily. FWD is a bit more controlled, but it can also give a false sense of confidence and completely go out of control too in bad situations.

AWD is GOOD, especially for getting started if you just want a practical car. My only concern with it for casual drivers is it can give a false sense of confidence. You can't go around corners any faster with it. You can't stop any faster (duh). And you can still get stuck in very bad conditions.

Something that is very important for keeping the car under control in the snow -- far more so than AWD -- is traction control. It makes a HUGE difference.

[IceEnclosure]

GMC Typhoon. V6, Turbo, AWD. I'd go for black.

[nerd]

Get now tires. I go in all kinds of things in my Mini with the snows on there. Plus the tires are a lot cheaper then a new car.

Yep, tires are very important. They make a huge difference.

[TurboMac]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

GMC Typhoon. V6, Turbo, AWD. I'd go for black.

That is good for MELTING snow!

[Fyre4ce]

Good suggestions so far. The typhoon, by the way, is a monster. It's very fast, an automatic (which snaps your neck when it shifts), and guzzles gas. Not my idea of a daily driver.

Here's a suggestion: SAAB 9-2X. Yeah yeah I know, it has a subaru powertrain, but it looks much nicer inside and out, and what's wrong with the subaru powertrain? They really do know what they're doing.

Evo is also an option, although I have heard anecdotally that they are terrible daily drivers.

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by Nick

Yep, tires are very important. They make a huge difference.

Tires are not only very important but they are of utmost importance. Any car, FWD/RWD/AWD, can only stop or steer as well as its tires allow; this applies at all times of the year, but unfortunately most people only buy tires on the basis of price.
I suggest picking up a cheap set of wheels and putting the snow tires on them so that it's easy and inexpensive (or free, if you DIY) to mount them. It's also better for the tires to not be unmounted and remounted twice a year.

[nerd]

Originally Posted by ChrisF

t's also better for the tires to not be unmounted and remounted twice a year.

Why's this? To NOT be unmounted?

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Keep your Civic and get snow tires. Real snow tires.

seriously, light FWD cars are awesome in the snow. i had a festive for a while, that thing was awesome. probably helped that it was so underpowered that you COULDN'T spin the tires.

[d4nth3m4n]

double psot.

[iomatic]

I pass Audis, Fords, Land Rovers in the snow and ice all the time.

In my Subaru.

If you want to get up to the mountain and hit some pipes, terrain parks, jumps, cliffs, tree-boarding (no, not skiing like a pussy ), anyway. If you're more concerned about looks, go get a Porsche and live in L.A.

[JacobyO]

Subarus are always AWD. Pretty much all other AWD systems are FWD until there is slippage then it shifts power to the rears.

I have tested the BMW, Volkswagen, and Volvo AWD systems back to back and Subaru's was without a doubt the best.

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by nerd

Why's this? To NOT be unmounted?

A ham-fisted tire guy can damage the sidewall and bead of the tires, not to mention the possibility of wheel damage from the machine and pry bar. When buying snow tires, smaller is better, so a set of small steel wheels, such as those for the OP's Civic, should be very plentiful and cheap, so why not just have 'em ready to go so it's easy to put them on right before the first storm of the year.

[olePigeon]

How about a 1978 Dodge Aspen. It weighs like 40 tons. The snow will melt from the shear friction.

[dav]

Originally Posted by JacobyO

Subarus are always AWD. Pretty much all other AWD systems are FWD until there is slippage then it shifts power to the rears.

I have tested the BMW, Volkswagen, and Volvo AWD systems back to back and Subaru's was without a doubt the best.

infiniti starts as RWD.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Nick

Well front or rear drive can be bad in the snow. FWD and RWD are equally "bad" in terms of starting from a stand still, assuming the car has decent weight balance. But if you have enough confidence (and power) then getting started is almost always possible.

Sorry, but I have to disagree, RWD are much worse when starting from a stand-still. I remember how often my dad's E320 used to get stuck when it was icy. Basically what happens is that while the front is still at a stand-still, the rear pushes, but all it does is rotate the car slowly around the front wheels.

Originally Posted by Nick

As for going around corners and stuff, a RWD car is much easier to lose control of, if you are pressing the gas at all. That's why people say it's worse, because it can fishtail easily. FWD is a bit more controlled, but it can also give a false sense of confidence and completely go out of control too in bad situations.

Obviously you can't beat the laws of physics, but still I felt more comfortable (both as a driver and a passenger) in a FWD.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by JacobyO

Subarus are always AWD. Pretty much all other AWD systems are FWD until there is slippage then it shifts power to the rears.

Most Audis use 60:40 under normal conditions (the RS4 for instance has it reversed).

[rambo47]

I had a Saab that was simply awesome in the snow. Front wheel drive. Next for me is probably a Ford Expedition.

[Fyre4ce]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Sorry, but I have to disagree, RWD are much worse when starting from a stand-still. I remember how often my dad's E320 used to get stuck when it was icy. Basically what happens is that while the front is still at a stand-still, the rear pushes, but all it does is rotate the car slowly around the front wheels.

Obviously you can't beat the laws of physics, but still I felt more comfortable (both as a driver and a passenger) in a FWD.

I think you're somewhat incorrect in your first statement. Starting from a stand-still under low grip conditions, all that matters to determine your traction in either a FWD or RWD car is:

-the grip of the tires (affected by the tire design, road surface, and, to a limited extent, the weight of the vehicle)
-the percentage of the vehicle's weight that is over the drive wheels (affected by vehicle design and arrangement of passengers and cargo)

I will admit that, because the overwhelming majority of cars are front-engine, most FWD cars tend to have more weight over their front wheels than RWD cars have weight over their rear wheels. But, this still depends entirely on the car. And, once you get onto higher traction surfaces (light snow/wet vs. deep snow/ice) you get more weight transfer onto the rear wheels from the acceleration so RWD improves and FWD suffers.

About your second point, FWD has the advantage of being more stable than RWD. For most drivers without professional training, this is a big advantage in low-grip conditions.

[OreoCookie]

I wasn't making a theoretical argument. It's what I have experienced and seen in every winter. Ever seen a Porsche try to get out of a parallel parking spot on icy ground?

The problem in my specific example was that the engine was simply far too powerful. The tires (properly sized snow tires, mind you) were fine, it was really the combination of a large engine plus RWD (and at least in Germany, most RWD cars tend to have more power since they usually are luxury cars).

[iomatic]

Bottom line: AWD trumps all forms of 2-wheel drive wussy-ness.

[memento]

This is all well and good, but I never saw a mention of a price range. That can very quickly eliminate many AWD cars.

I live on a mountain and AWD is pretty much required. My wife is in the market for a new car because she can't get to the house in her FWD.

I know you said no to subie, but I can't praise mine enough. The best AWD out there. That's all I'll say about it.

Others I know of: Mazdaspeed 6
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
BMW
Mercedes
VW Passat
Audi
Saab 9-2x (which is a subaru impreza wagon)
Dodge Magnum, Caliber, and maybe more of their new ones
Chrysler 300
Ford (one of their new ugly cars has AWD as an option, don't remember or care which one)
Volvo

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by rambo47

I had a Saab that was simply awesome in the snow. Front wheel drive. Next for me is probably a Ford Expedition.

I second that. My Saab 900 is a brilliant car in the snow. ATC with good winter tires makes a huge difference.

[IceEnclosure]

Ford 500.. and probably cheaper than some of the suggestions. (not all are AWD, but it's an option)

http://www.myford500.com/photos/show...2/cat/2/page/1

[jebjeb]

Originally Posted by iomatic

Bottom line: AWD trumps all forms of 2-wheel drive wussy-ness.

I'll assume you are being sarcastic.

AWD is certainly practical in winter areas but remember that this is purely to increased traction opposed to increased grip. This seems to be a common misconception of most uninformed AWD supporters.

An AWD car still only has the same tyre contact patch area as a FWD or RWD car, it just spreads the proportion of torque amongst more than two of its wheels.

The most common failing of AWD cars is their poor steering feel. Audi is only just starting to get it right with the new model RS4 (which I am yet to drive) but my experience with all the other Audi's and Subaru's I have driven is that they are lifeless at the front end. Audi likes to think that by adding lots of weight to the steering that it somehow increases feel but all it does is deaden the wheel even more. This is an opinion supported by most car journos.

This is not to say that Audi's and such are not good cars. Many of the Audi's I have driven have been great cars in many aspects. If I lived in an area badly affected by winter I would probably jump on one.

Now there are exceptions to everything, but except for a few models (WRX's and Mitsubishi EVO's plus the odd Audi and Lambo), most AWD cars are not particularly sporting. This is not a bad thing and it all depends on what one wants from a car.

So to come back on topic, tyres do appear to be the most important aspect of winter motoring. Look at the option of investing there before you jump into a new car.

[iomatic]

in snow.

Originally Posted by jebjeb

I'll assume you are being sarcastic.

AWD is certainly practical in winter areas but remember that this is purely to increased traction opposed to increased grip. This seems to be a common misconception of most uninformed AWD supporters.
… a bunch of blablahblah cut out…

[jebjeb]

Originally Posted by iomatic

in snow.

Then we agree. Would have been best to clarify this in your earlier post.

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

i live on a huge hill. when it snows bad, my 94 civic, just ain't cuttin it. i need something AWD, but i'm sooooo sick of everyone telling me to get a subaru, i just don't like the look of them, just my personal pref, no offense to subaru owners out there.

any suggestions?

Your own two feet. Try walking. You would be amazed.

[Goldfinger]

There is only one sensible option:


The best 4x4xFar.

[sek929]

MY dad's old RWD Suburban hds a limited slip diff and was great in the snow.

My car is FWD (and very heavy) and can get through any snow not over its hood.

AWD is great, but alot of AWD cars come with low profile wheels and wide tires, which basically act as skis on snow.

Get snow tires on the Civic and you should be all set.