[Spliffdaddy]

I bought this house from a guy that didn't do anything except eat, sleep, and sit in front of the television for nine years. The house contained over 60 cubic yards of assorted trash. About the same volume as a 52 foot tractor trailer. Total cost for dumpsters/waste hauling - $685.00 and 3 days of work. It was so disgusting I couldn't eat anything for the better part of a week. Literally, there was a narrow trail by which a person could walk to get from one room to another. Junk was piled so high that the living room ceiling fan could not rotate.




Interestingly enough, I found over 100 different kinds of cleaners and detergents stashed in the cabinets. Almost none of them had been opened. It was as if the guy figured he'd done enough by just buying them. Or perhaps he expected the cleaning fairy might pay him a visit one night and take care of things. Here's a small sample of the cleaning supplies I found. For the sake of bandwidth, I won't post the complete collection. Let's just say that the collection was very comprehensive - encompassing *every* type of cleaning agent known to man. Bizarre, for sure.



After filling up dumpsters with gross stuff all day long, a person sure does feel like climbing into a bathtub and getting all squeaky clean again.



Well maybe not that particular bathtub. I thought it was funny that the tub was made by Borg-Warner. That must have been long before they started making automotive transmissions. I'm no biologist, but I'm convinced there are organisms growing on that sucker that have yet to be discovered anywhere else on Earth.

Days later one of the neighbors informed me that the previous owner had contracted some sort of (I kid you not) "flesh-eating disease" the year before. One of the first cases in Kentucky. The next day I fogged the house with a commercial disinfectant - via a high-pressure sprayer. My flesh is intact. For now.

OK, so this guy had six indoor cats. All insane mofos have cats, as I'm sure you're aware. Naturally, the cats couldn't always find the litter box - which was (get this) beside the guy's bed. So, the cats would simply relieve themselves..like wherever. The carpet was 9 years old. Nine years, six cats, no vacuum - do the math. While I was hauling out trash, I moved a plastic container that was sitting on the carpet. Here's the plastic box (it contained children's books that had been checked out of the local library between 1997 and 1998 - and never returned)




Much to my surprise, the carpet beneath the box was pristine and perfect. Just like new. Note the contrast of the 'new' carpet alongside the 'used' carpet. Niiice.




You can't help but find humor in all this. I mean, it's either that or find a way to ram your fingers down your throat in an effort to trigger a relief for the nausea.


Summary:

The neighbors absolutely love me. They bring me brownies and sandwiches. They take turns cutting the grass for me! And they won't take 'no' for an answer. The house has been an eyesore in the community for quite a while. It was hurting the value of neighboring property.

I made a mistake when I bought this particular house. The renovation is about 70% complete, over budget, and I'm way behind schedule. I'll be lucky to make $20,000 profit. That's for 3 months of work. This was supposed to make me twice as much money as that - in half the time.. If it weren't for the wonderful neighbors I'd consider this project a failure. I'm going to be careful about who I sell it to - and make sure they're worthy of the privilege of living beside kick-ass neighbors.

Get out there and flip a house. You never know what sort of flesh-eating disease is waiting for you.

[chris v]

I don't know how you did it. Might have made more sense to just bulldoze & start again. Good on ya' though. What is it with some people?

[olePigeon]

I saw a show on TLC about people with a disorder where they're deathly afraid of stuff with dust on it. They wouldn't clean anything.

[andi*pandi]

I would be all in favor of razing that health hazard and building anew. Sometimes things like mold and things just get into the pores of a place. yikes.

[Ozmodiar]

This thread: A+++++

I love stuff like this. I hope you post more pictures, including before and after.

[himself]

That's is a little scary, but flipping houses always has been. It ain't for the faint of heart. It is good practice to always do your homework before buying a home from someone, and seeing if the task ahead of you is manageable... was this in foreclosure, or was it just put up for sale by the owner? Me and a buddy of mine have flipped a couple of buildings together, and we make a point to inspect anything we're considering picking up.

Definitely post more pics... document the entire process for us if you can!

[MM-o4]

my bathroom looks like that 9 hours after I clean it

MM

[Tuoder]

$20k ain't too bad, I'd say, for three months of work.. But then, I made like $7k in all of last year. I'd mow your lawn too, If you'd get rid of the eyesore down the street from me. I wonder if you could write off the other $20k as a community service. lol

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Maybe he had Diogenes Syndrome?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_syndrome

[Mastrap]

When we took a first look at our house my wife nearly walked out again. The stench was just unbelievable. At first we thought that it was just sweat and smoke but when we took the place apart we found that the main waste stack had been leaking for years and that the roof had a hole in it, leading to mould behind the ancient plaster. Nice.

Anyway, we took everything out, back to the brick walls. Fixed the roof, demolished the plaster and started from fresh. We even ripped out the old flooring - when I drove it to the dump you could still smell the rankness of years of neglect in it.

Then:


Now:


We're about 85% of the way there.
Notice the raised kitchen for tall people who like to cook. The island on the left is an old chest of drawers. It needs a marble top, then it'll make the perfect pastry station.

[powerbook867]

Holy crap! Almost unbelievable story and excellent work on the renovation...I'm surpised the neighbors haven't offered to throw a block party in your honor!

[Eug]

Sweet. If that was in my neighbourhood, I'd make you sandwiches too. Hell, I'd probably buy you an iPod.

I agree though... If I had been given that job and looked inside that house, I would have just bulldozed it.

[Kevin]

Where are the copper tubings?

[mac128k-1984]

So spliff your a flipper hows that working out.

The real estate market here in the northeast is such that flipping is a dangerious move. Houses are staying on the market in excess of 180 days and are typically going for less then asking. It's slowly turning into a buyers market, the only thing that hasn't made it a full fledged buyers market is sellers denial that they're not going to get double digit return on their houses like in years past so they are unwilling to move on the price (so it sits on the market).

Good luck

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

So spliff your a flipper hows that working out.

The real estate market here in the northeast is such that flipping is a dangerious move. Houses are staying on the market in excess of 180 days and are typically going for less then asking. It's slowly turning into a buyers market, the only thing that hasn't made it a full fledged buyers market is sellers denial that they're not going to get double digit return on their houses like in years past so they are unwilling to move on the price (so it sits on the market).

Good luck

Flipping a standard resellable home vs buying to renovate a sh!thøle to resell are completely different kettles of fish.

P.S. Up here in Canada it's still a sellers' market and it's supposed to remain so for a few years at at least... which annoys me since I'm gonna be a potential buyer next year.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where are the copper tubings?

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Eug

Flipping a standard resellable home vs buying to renovate a sh!thøle to resell are completely different kettles of fish.

Yes and no. a buyers market puts more pressure on a flipper then a home owner.
first its more difficult to upgrade the house in a cost effective manner, you need to make sure what you put into the house, you'll get it out.
Second is how long the house is on the market. From what I've seen and read carrying paying a mortgage eats into a flippers profit (and savings). having a house not sell for 6 months means you need to make 6 months worth of payments.

So with house prices going down which effect how much $$ you spend to renovate and houses not selling fast impacts people trying to do this for profit as opposed to those looking to upgrade (or downgrade)

At least that's how I see it.

[Troll]

Why did the guy who was living there sell? Did all his flesh get eaten off?

[ambush]

Was the guy obese.

[scaught]

good post, spliff.

[andreas_g4]

D I S G U S T I N G. Good luck with your margin though!

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

Yes and no. a buyers market puts more pressure on a flipper then a home owner.
first its more difficult to upgrade the house in a cost effective manner, you need to make sure what you put into the house, you'll get it out.
Second is how long the house is on the market. From what I've seen and read carrying paying a mortgage eats into a flippers profit (and savings). having a house not sell for 6 months means you need to make 6 months worth of payments.

So with house prices going down which effect how much $$ you spend to renovate and houses not selling fast impacts people trying to do this for profit as opposed to those looking to upgrade (or downgrade)

At least that's how I see it.

Of course. However, a smart purchaser who renovates just to sell generally isn't going to be paying top dollar for a home, and usually the price sold far outweighs the cost of the original unit and the cost of renovation. Plus, in a buyers' market, the cost of the home is less too, unless you've done poor research into the area.

I have acquaintances who have done this in buyers markets and sellers' markets and have always made money. It's very different from the classic flipper, who is someone who is simply buying a house to sell, with only minimum renovations. Much more risk IMO.

Anyways, I definitely am NOT a flipper in the Spliffdaddy sense. Way too much work and time, and I don't have the skillz for it anyway. Actually, I'm not a flipper in any sense, because as I said the other type of flipping is too risky.

I'm the traditional buyer. I'd be Spliffdaddy's customer... He deserves that extra $20 grand.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by ambush

Was the guy obese.

yes. very much so.

How did you know?

scary.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a picture of how the outside looks today. Still not finished, but the weather has been a miserable sort of hot for 2 solid weeks. I avoid working outside.




Front windows - before. Note the bed sheet used as a curtain.




I decided it wasn't in the budget, so I didn't copy the original window layout. I did, however, manage to find a 60" x 60" window. Which was a small miracle.




I'll post more pictures later today. I need to meet the heating/AC guy right now. He's gonna shaft me for about $4,000. and I can't really blame him. The house never had airconditioning...and it used propane for heat. I managed to sell the huge propane tank along with 350 gallons it contained, for $20. It had a single 'infra-red' vent-free burner on the wall in the livingroom. Adding central air & heat will make a HUGE difference.

The house will look like a new one when it's done. It's amazing what can be done. It sits on an acre lot that is just plain awesome. I paid roughly what the land, framing, and utilities were worth. About $40,000. But I didn't anticipate the amount of work required to empty the junk and gut the interior. Then, I made some substantial changes to the floorplan. It was a 2 bedroom / 1 bath. Now it's a 3 bedroom / 2 bath. Pretty much everything inside and outside needed replaced.

I don't normally 'flip' houses. I build them from scratch. This will probably be my last flip. There's a lot less work in new construction. And a lot more money. You live and you learn.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by ambush

Was the guy obese.

First thought I had is that he was one of those guys they had to cut the roof off and helicopter out.

[Peter]

awesome story

[DarwinX]

Nice work Spliff! I like to watch the property flip shows on TV, pretty cool to see a fellow 'NNer posting about such a thing.

[mitchell_pgh]

Simply amazing!

I would be very careful moving into such a place. Mold and other such chemicals can be VERY bad... and I'm sure the guy didn't clean out his vents, etc. during those years.

[mindwaves]

Very very scary. I had a similar experience with a house like that. One of the first things we did was to bomb the house with bug spray, then later with some odor killing stuff.

[Eug]

$40000? Wow, cheap, esp. with an acre of land.

What's the size of the house? 1100 sq. feet?

For comparison, in Toronto it's about a million bux for a half acre with 2500 sq. foot house in the nicer areas, and half a million far out in the 'burbs.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

So spliff your a flipper hows that working out.

The real estate market here in the northeast is such that flipping is a dangerious move. Houses are staying on the market in excess of 180 days and are typically going for less then asking. It's slowly turning into a buyers market, the only thing that hasn't made it a full fledged buyers market is sellers denial that they're not going to get double digit return on their houses like in years past so they are unwilling to move on the price (so it sits on the market).

Good luck

That's some good news as I just moved to the Northeast and will be looking to buy in the next year or two.

[ghporter]

There's flipping and then there's flipping. It sounds like Spliff is getting a workout in the hard type. Some flippers slap some cheap paint on a place, call it "remodeled" and ask a premium for a place. That's not good for anyone except the person who gets to bank that premium.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

That's some good news as I just moved to the Northeast and will be looking to buy in the next year or two.

Good for the buyers not good for those who just property as an investment.

the boston area is seeing inventory climb, sales drop and we're now just starting to see house prices recede.

[davesimondotcom]

Good job on the house, Spliff. Looks like night and day.

[brassplayersrock²]

i concur, very very good job Spliff. I am very impressed with the work that you have done. OH MY GOD! that carpet picture....JC

Alex

[CMYKid]

I hope you left off a zero...you didnt really let that tank and propane go for 20 bucks didja?

[macforray]

Very nice job. What did you do with the old milk can from the first photo? They are collectors' items and most are antiques now. Depending on type, age and condition; worth a few bucks.

[jckalen]

Not that I'm trying to make excuses for the previous owner but... I wonder if the fact that he had a box filled with childrens books sitting in the exact same spot for 9 years says anything. Like maybe he had a child, or family, and something tragic happened. Would certainly explain letting the place go - he may have become somewhat catatonic after the loss of a child.

Having said that, I agree you've tackled quite a project and the work you've done is remarkable. I don't envy you for that

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by CMYKid

I hope you left off a zero...you didnt really let that tank and propane go for 20 bucks didja?

Yes. I was afraid of getting stuck with a big ugly propane tank. It's something you can't just toss in a dumpster. The man I sold it to had to pay a local propane company for the transportation, which wasn't cheap. Hell, I would have had to pay to have it hauled off if I didn't sell it. I threw away a lot of things that had some value. Mostly because it would cost me money, overall, to spend time *not* working on the house. Time is money. I never really believed that old saying...but now I live by it. Most folks would say I'm doing alright by making $20,000 for 3 months of work. I don't see things that way. I can build a new home in 4 months - and make $50-60,000. In essence, this 'flip' project is costing me about $25,000 - the difference between what I'll make, and what I *could* be making. I won't forget this lesson. Losing 25 big ones is a great way to get your attention. Worse, still - that $25,000 would have made me another $25,000 if I could re-invest it in my next project. Hell, I can't even spend a dollar without feeling like it cost me 2 dollars. Kinda warps your brain if you think about money like I do. It's no wonder I always order off the 99 cent value menu at Wendy's. I feel like it costs me 2 bucks for a 99cent junior bacon cheeseburger. No way in hell I'm ordering a $5 combo meal.

Here's an interesting tidbit....

My mother helped me empty some of the junk from inside that house. She found an old walking stick in a closet and she showed it to me. I glanced at it and told her it was crap - like the other 60 cubic yards of crap inside the house. So last week she told me she was going to town with some friends because there was an 'Antiques Roadshow"-type thingy going on. You bring an antique or collectible and let an expert appraise it for you. She told me she was bringing that walking stick she found. I laughed. When she got home she told me it was a "turn of the century hickory walking stick...hand-carved by descendants of African slaves". Apparently the snake that was carved on it was symbolic of 'slavery' or something. Anyhow, the babboon carved on the top was very unusual and made it worth more than most. The value of that stick was conservatively appraised at $500.




She wants me to put it on eBay for her. I guess she's claiming the walking stick as her own - since I told her to throw it out and she didn't.

Prolly has some sort of voodoo curse on it. A flesh-eating voodoo curse if ya ask me.

[Spliffdaddy]

I wasn't gonna mention this, but I already know more than I care to about the previous owner. He left a family photo album along with a box of other personal items that were, best I can figure, items belonging to his deceased mother. I doubt he knew what was in that box. See, it had a newspaper article...all yellowy and aged amongst the pictures and family obituaries.
The guy I bought the house from was at least 40 years old. According to the newspaper article - which didn't have a date - a 22 year old man (the previous owner) and his 16 year old wife were arrested for the death of their infant child. There are more details in the article that I don't recall, but I'll scan it and post for you tomorrow. The album is at the house. If you want to try to find something about it on the internet, all I remember is that his last name is 'Canter' and the incident happened in Kentucky - probably 20 years ago. I don't know if either him or his wife were convicted in the infant's death. Obviously, this guy has been a nutcase most of his life.
Anyhow, I'll post the article and a recent picture of Mr. Canter tomorrow evening.

[jckalen]

creepy. Cool cane though.

[Jawbone54]

Loved this thread. Great job, Spliff!

[Eriamjh]

OK, so this guy had six indoor cats. All insane mofos have cats

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Most folks would say I'm doing alright by making $20,000 for 3 months of work. I don't see things that way. I can build a new home in 4 months - and make $50-60,000. In essence, this 'flip' project is costing me about $25,000 - the difference between what I'll make, and what I *could* be making.

I have the hardest damn time explaining the loss of potential profit to my employees. They'd rather stop & fix a recurring problem 20 times, then look for the root cause & eliminate the recurrence. When I try to lay out for them the amt. of income we could be generating instead of stopping to fix things, I get met with this deer-in-the-headlights, "I'm trying to understand, but I just can't" look.

[ghporter]

chris, that's because they get paid for doing the fix every time. I used to be a bench technician working on two-way radios. We would offer to fix the same problem twice, and then give the customer notice-the next time is the last time for this fix, but here's a way to keep it from happening again... That seemed to work.

Spliff, while all "crazy mofos" may have cats, not all cat owners are "crazy mofos." Of course there's sometimes a fine line between "too many cats" and "insanely too many cats." Six is nowhere near that line, but not making sure they use the litter box is pretty darn close!

[chris v]

Originally Posted by ghporter

chris, that's because they get paid for doing the fix every time. I used to be a bench technician working on two-way radios. We would offer to fix the same problem twice, and then give the customer notice-the next time is the last time for this fix, but here's a way to keep it from happening again... That seemed to work.

If they give me grief, I just say "Hey, it's your raise you're spending."

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by chris v

I have the hardest damn time explaining the loss of potential profit to my employees. They'd rather stop & fix a recurring problem 20 times, then look for the root cause & eliminate the recurrence. When I try to lay out for them the amt. of income we could be generating instead of stopping to fix things, I get met with this deer-in-the-headlights, "I'm trying to understand, but I just can't" look.

Then I'm guessing you won't have much luck explaining to them that the lost potential profit is only half of the real loss.

The $25,000 I'm 'losing' would have easily made me $40,000 within the first 6 months - if used as operating capital.

And that $40,000 would have made me *another* $40,000 by the end of the year.

Employees will never care as much about your business as you do. There's nothing wrong with that, really. But you have to accept that fact or you'll go nuts (and start collecting cats).

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Then I'm guessing you won't have much luck explaining to them that the lost potential profit is only half of the real loss.

The $25,000 I'm 'losing' would have easily made me $40,000 within the first 6 months - if used as operating capital.

And that $40,000 would have made me *another* $40,000 by the end of the year.

Employees will never care as much about your business as you do. There's nothing wrong with that, really. But you have to accept that fact or you'll go nuts (and start collecting cats).

"I'm warning you slackers -- I'm up to five cats!"

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

That is me in 20 years.

[SSharon]

Interesting stuff in here. My girlfriend's father flips houses in Jersey and I have helped him with a few and never seen anything like that. We generally strip the house to the frame, add another level, add some bathrooms and call it a day.

[Y3a]

JeeZ!! I bought a house for about $70K less than others of the same kind in the neighborhood. Had to spend about $5K to have it repainted as the owners had colors they must have picked BY TASTE insteasd of the COLOR! The carpet was pretty cheap too. many details like bathroom mirrors, faucets etc were all on the cheap. I discovered that the siding was installed without the sheet insulation under it. The sun deck was warped from a tree which had overgrown the area, so to remove the trees I took the deck apart. In the spring, I noticved a funny smell in the back yard, but stupidly assumed it was the tree roots rotting. Turns out it was a broken sewer line. Well, I have to have the cement slab hammered up and new sewer layed from the kitchen, down the main hall, and possible all the way to the main sewer line! I will have video cameras and Plumbing/sewer experts on hand for the removal of the old stuff so IF it can be proved that the problem existed before we moved in, I will have to sue the former owners. I hope I don't have to rip up the bathrooms, and laundry room for the same issue. It may cost $50K or more to do that job!

[Spliffdaddy]

You'll have to prove that the previous owners were aware of the defects - and failed to disclose them. I don't see that being possible to prove. Used houses are like used cars. Good luck, though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the newspaper article I mentioned in an earlier post. There was no date:



This picture may possibly be the husband/wife/child from the above news article:



Finally, a more recent photo of the previous owner:


(no way is that *his* house. Not enough junk laying around)


I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of this. All I have is a photo album that contains very few dates and names. Also, I'm no expert on child development...so use your best judgement on whether the infant in the picture appears to be no more than 3 1/2 months old. For all I know, the photo could be unrelated to the people in the article.