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mi_canuck · 02:21 PM

I'm contemplating getting a refurb Macbook Pro Core Duo for some screaming deals. However it seems Core Duo won't support 64bit and/or Leopard?

Is it worth the extra money to get a Core 2 Duo at this point? (talking $500-1000 more to get a Core 2 Duo, vs a refurb Core Duo).

I'm not looking to spend a fortune, and wondering if getting a Core Duo w/ 256MB of video is a wiser buy than a Core 2 Duo w/ 128MB of video or not.

thanks!

cheers

mduell · Apr 10, 2007, 01:58 PM

Core Duo is not a 64-bit chip. It will support Leopard just fine.

The performance difference between the CD and C2D is pretty small in most apps; the bigger change is FW800, DVDR DL, and 3GB RAM instead of 2.

So the answer depends on what you're going to do with the machine.

Also, please say "MacBook Pro" when talking about the MBP in the future; MacBook is an entirely different product.

mi_canuck · Apr 10, 2007, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Also, please say "MacBook Pro" when talking about the MBP in the future; MacBook is an entirely different product.

Sorry about that... I changed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

peace

mfbernstein · Apr 10, 2007, 06:03 PM

Why not a refurb C2D MBP? When Apple has 'em, the 2.16 is $1600, only $350 more than cheapest CD MPB (the 1.83/512MB model). You get a bigger disk, better DVD burner and 2X the RAM built-in, plus the C2D models are mostly free of the annoying problems plaguing the first gen MBP.

mi_canuck · Apr 10, 2007, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

Why not a refurb C2D MBP? When Apple has 'em, the 2.16 is $1600, only $350 more than cheapest CD MPB (the 1.83/512MB model). You get a bigger disk, better DVD burner and 2X the RAM built-in, plus the C2D models are mostly free of the annoying problems plaguing the first gen MBP.

I guess I'm debating if getting a CD w/ 256MB of video mem is better or not than a C2D w/ 128MB. How limiting really is 128 vs 256?

But from the sounds of it, there a lot of benefits to a C2D...

The main things I'd be doing aside from web and email would be some music burning, video burning/encoding, and some light to moderate photoshop work. Might also look at getting Aperture. Nothing professional though... Just more enthusiast level amateur.

Thnx!

cherry su · Apr 10, 2007, 07:11 PM

Aperture will benefit from more video RAM.

mfbernstein · Apr 10, 2007, 07:42 PM

For everything besides Aperture you mentioned, the V-RAM will have negligible impact. For Aperture YMMV, but I'd check out Lightroom too (free demo available).

OTOH, if Lightroom/Aperture/Photoshop ever go 64-bit, you'll be set (note: CS3 will not be 64-bit).

jcee · Apr 10, 2007, 07:56 PM

Apple has lots of refurb C2D mbp now at good prices, pick one up

128 vs 256 is actually negligible unless you live in aperture/lightroom/hd vid/high end gaming

c2d has fixed a lot of issues plaguing cd series

mduell · Apr 10, 2007, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

OTOH, if Lightroom/Aperture/Photoshop ever go 64-bit, you'll be set (note: CS3 will not be 64-bit).

There's no real performance advantage to go 64-bit, and the MBP doesn't support >4GB RAM anyway, so software going 64-bit in the future won't make a difference.

Raining Down in Texas · Apr 10, 2007, 10:03 PM

I have one of each - a personal CD and a work C2D. The C2D is definitely more refined - it is quieter and runs cooler. The C2D runs at 2.33 GHz and the CD is 2.0 GHz, and I can't perceive any real difference in speed in typical MS and Apple apps.

mfbernstein · Apr 10, 2007, 10:15 PM

64-bit on x86 has other advantages.

You have twice as many general purpose registers (16 instead of 8), twice as many SSE (128 bit FP) registers (16 not 8 again), plus hardware support for 64-bit integer arithmetic. These can yield nontrivial speedups, even in applications that have no need for additional memory.

As I said above, it will certainly be some time before these apps become 64bit, but it is a consideration.

zign · Apr 11, 2007, 05:43 AM

Go with C2D. I had a CoreDuo for almost a year and had it replaced by Apple for Core2Duo. It's quicker, cooler, quiter.

mduell · Apr 11, 2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

64-bit on x86 has other advantages.

You have twice as many general purpose registers (16 instead of 8), twice as many SSE (128 bit FP) registers (16 not 8 again), plus hardware support for 64-bit integer arithmetic. These can yield nontrivial speedups, even in applications that have no need for additional memory.

As I said above, it will certainly be some time before these apps become 64bit, but it is a consideration.

64 vs 32-bit performance on AMD64 (AMD) machines is not the same as 64 vs 32-bit performance on EM64T (Intel). The latter is generally a smaller difference than the former.

Core 2 Duo has some non-64-bit enhancements, like single-cycle SIMD execution, that will improve performance if your apps use them, but you're already seeing that improvement in 32-bit mode. The extra registers do little to nothing in most apps.

mfbernstein · Apr 11, 2007, 02:47 PM

This is getting increasingly off-topic from the original post, so I'll simply note that I largely agree with you. For most things 64-bit makes no difference. However, for some, it does. Computationally intensive applications that are CPU bound are good candidates, into which category Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture and others fall.

Computing RSA codes on my MBP C2D is the GNU Multiple Precision arithmetics package is approx. 3X faster in 64-bit mode than in 32-bit mode, which is a big enough difference for me.

mi_canuck · Apr 11, 2007, 07:45 PM

Well that didn't last long. Looks like all the MBP's that were on Apple's refurb site aren't there anymore (sold out?)...

peace

mfbernstein · Apr 11, 2007, 08:18 PM

They come and go daily, based, presumably on supply. I'll bet that the same deals will be available again before next Wednesday. If you're really motivated, there's a Dashboard widget to keep track.

mi_canuck · Apr 12, 2007, 01:13 PM

Well I can get a MBP C2D 2.33 through my work (or any mac for that matter) for 10%, and on top of that have it paid with pre-tax dollars (so essentially saving give or take 30% post-tax). So would work out to effectively <$1600 in post-tax dollars, plus of course sales tax if it applies. So maybe that's the best way to go... ???

And then grab a 23" refurb for $749 ;-)