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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > OmniWeb 4.1 SneakyPeeks !

OmniWeb 4.1 SneakyPeeks ! (Page 17)
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davidb224
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Mar 16, 2002, 03:42 PM
 
Originally posted by dividend:
<STRONG>I am eagerly awaiting 4.1, guess from what I have read here, it won't come before 10.2, so i will use 4.1 beta until then.</STRONG>
As we all are...however, as for MacOS 10.2, I just read a rumor that something pretty big will be announced at MacWorld Japan, (which is in about 2 weeks). It was suggested that the announcement will be the release of 10.2.
davidb
     
Sine
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Mar 16, 2002, 04:55 PM
 
What would be cool is if I could actually download the newest Sneaky Peak. It keeps timing out.
     
Sharky K.
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Mar 16, 2002, 05:03 PM
 
Originally posted by Sine:
<STRONG>What would be cool is if I could actually download the newest Sneaky Peak. It keeps timing out.</STRONG>
I got more success with Download Wizard. (cocoa download manager, free)
     
Sine
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Mar 16, 2002, 06:28 PM
 
Sharky I can't even ping that url Either can 5 other people on my IM list.
     
Gregory
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Mar 16, 2002, 06:37 PM
 
If you are/were serious about NOT using beta for work and "mission critical" that would seem to imply/mean OS X for sure.

There are/were serious gaps in documentation etc and most "1.0" software definitely has not had the exposure to reveal flaws, which these sp's have.
IE 5.13 IMO is more 'beta' than OW 4.1sp57.

And now we have MRJJava plug-in (but that too is beta).

Anyone got Adaptec SCSI? very pre-beta/beta.

Mac OS 9.1 'broke' a lot of things, USB devices, by being less tolerant of old code. OS X is less tolerant of improper or poor scsi cables & termination issues than OS 9. Businesses sometimes wait until there has been a 'service pack' or two - again, first release of Windows is more like public beta period. Mac OS X PB was more like alpha and pre-beta; I was disappointed... 10.1 marked a shift in stability and performance but stuff that was suppose to be available in Sept was not. Some driver development was held back until December 2001, with the release of the updated Developer Tools. So we are beginning to see the results of that.

Mozilla has nightly builds. Open Source (and Darwin is an Open Source project) have these builds.

10.1.2 and AppleScript 1.82 have enabled better software coding so that we NOW have programs so it is possible to backup an OS X system. THAT is so essential, but a milestone, and to think there are people who don't even have a backup (or three) in case there is trouble. And some tools and knowing what to do.

This thread is devoted to SneakyPeek releases, isn't it?
     
Gregory
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Mar 16, 2002, 06:54 PM
 
Mac OS X 10 will be one year old in a week, too.
     
davidb224
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Mar 16, 2002, 09:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Sine:
<STRONG>What would be cool is if I could actually download the newest Sneaky Peak. It keeps timing out.</STRONG>
I just went to the Sneaky Peek website and I got right in. As a test, I started a download of sp58 and it started downloading right away (since I already have it installed, I didn't finish the download).

You had better check on what's going on with your computer or your ISP...there's no problem downloading sp58 from the Sneaky Peek website.
davidb
     
cpac
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Mar 16, 2002, 11:19 PM
 
The sp's just keep getting better in my experience, but all the discussion about development process/GMs has got me wondering: What's left to do before 4.1 gm?

- complete javascript support?
- complete CSS support?
- random bug squashing?

I guess I'm just curious what's left to do... (And no, I dont mean to make the above 3 things sound trivial -they certainly aren't) Are all three even expected to make 4.1?

cpac
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davidb224
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Mar 17, 2002, 12:20 AM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
<STRONG>The sp's just keep getting better in my experience</STRONG>
I agree! They seem to get better and better. There are a few little slip-ups, but over-all I think they are making very good progress.
davidb
     
Hudson
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Mar 17, 2002, 12:26 AM
 
I think most people who have used the sneakypeek releases of OmniWeb 4.1 have found them to be very stable. I've found them to be much more stable than any browser I ever used on OS 8/9. Omni folks can answer this directly if they wish but it appears that the continuing frequent releases of OW speakypeeks are intended to further the compatibility with the myriad of web sites out there, especially all of the ones that may have not been coded to industry standards. But it's not like they are causing crashes on OW.

Here's where to go look (you'll need to read the brief instructions).
http://planetmirror.com/pub/omnigrou...X/.sneakypeek/
     
oeyvind
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Mar 17, 2002, 12:35 AM
 
Can some one at Omnigroup please file this as a P1 bug: <font color = red>OmniWeb doesn't seem to parse non-English characters in URL correctly to server</font>... referring to this thread, one can't link on the item in the vendor's site in OmniWeb.

Thanks.

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: oeyvind ]
     
asxless
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Mar 17, 2002, 12:45 AM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
<STRONG>...What's left to do before 4.1 gm?

- complete javascript support?
- complete CSS support?
- random bug squashing?

I guess I'm just curious what's left to do... (And no, I dont mean to make the above 3 things sound trivial -they certainly aren't) Are all three even expected to make 4.1?</STRONG>
While I don't expect "complete" javascript support in OW 4.1 final, I certainly hope Omni provides significantly improved javascript support prior to switching to 5.x development. I'll be using Mozilla as my main bowser until OmniWeb works with the javascript in key sites (e.g. www.fidelity.com) I visit often. I'm certainly not 'holding my breath' for an OW 5.x SP

asxless in iLand
     
Gregory
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Mar 17, 2002, 04:00 PM
 
I hate to try again, Maxtor www.maxtor.com brought OmniWeb SP 58 into a loop of some sort.

Beachball, but no high cpu % in OmniWeb. Was in WindowManager though.

Could it be related to using "Duality" gray theme?
Maxtor has always been a 'challenge' for some reason.
     
Sharky K.
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Mar 17, 2002, 04:27 PM
 
maxtor's websites works here perfectly
     
Sharky K.
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Mar 17, 2002, 04:33 PM
 
Check my new browser icon :
     
starfleetX
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Mar 17, 2002, 04:40 PM
 
Yup, Maxtor locks up OW4.1sp58 here too with the spinning disk cursor. Strange.

It has nothing to do with your using themes, though, because my system is clean.
The server made a boo boo. (403)
     
davidb224
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Mar 17, 2002, 05:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Sharky K.:
<STRONG>Check my new browser icon :
</STRONG>
It looks kinda familiar, but its now soooo huge....

BTW didn't you criticize me when I used the same image as an animated gif in my signature?
davidb
     
davidb224
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Mar 17, 2002, 05:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Sharky K.:
<STRONG>Check my new browser icon :
</STRONG>
I guess if its OK for you to use it as an icon, it will be OK for me to use it as an aninated gif in my signature. I just which we would make up our minds....

so here it is again:
davidb
     
starfleetX
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Mar 17, 2002, 05:19 PM
 
Originally posted by davidb224:
<STRONG>I guess if its OK for you to use it as an icon, it will be OK for me to use it as an aninated gif in my signature. I just which we would make up our minds....

so here it is again:</STRONG>
There's a difference here...

He's only showing this image once (thrice if you count that you included it in your quotes). Plus, IMO, it looks a lot nicer than yours.

You, however, are pushing that big, annoying image with every single damned post. Cut it out already.



[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]
The server made a boo boo. (403)
     
asxless
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Mar 17, 2002, 05:39 PM
 
Originally posted by starfleetX:
<STRONG>...You, however, are pushing that big, annoying image with every single damned post. Cut it out already.</STRONG>
Agreed! BTW, the "big, annoying image" uses a URL that exploits a weakness in Mozilla which causes it to display even when Mozilla is told to block images from that server

asxless in iLand
     
Rickster
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Mar 17, 2002, 05:58 PM
 
I can't reproduce any hanging problems on www.maxtor.com. If you are, could you send us a "sample" file? (Instructions: when you see OmniWeb "hung" with the spinning disc of doom, open a terminal and type "sample OmniWeb 5". Five seconds later it'll tell you the location of a .sample.txt file it's written. Email that with a description of the problem to [email protected] .)

Also, oeyvind, could you describe your international characters problem in more detail? I don't read Japanese (none of us at Omni do), so it's sort of hard to tell what to do to reproduce the problem. (It sounds sort of like an issue of text encodings for form submission, which you might be able to do something about in the HTML Display preferences pane.)

OmniWeb 4.1 has no dependency on Mac OS X 10.2. We're just waiting on the resolution of a couple more bugs for final release.

Talking about "complete JavaScript support" and "complete CSS support" is oversimplifying things. We do have full support for the JavaScript 1.2 language (I think... not my part of the project); what we're missing is support for certain parts of the Document Object Model, which lets JavaScript refer to and control elements of HTML/CSS documents. Some DOM support will still be missing when we ship 4.1 because it requires things that can't be done with our current rendering architecture. Some of the missing pieces will be fixable for 4.1 and 4.1.x because they're just "random bugs", such as cases in which incorrect code will be accepted by IE and Netscape.

Nobody has "full CSS support". The CSS2 standard includes all kinds of weird stuff: extending the length of ascenders or descenders on letters, positional audio information for use in conjunction with text-to-speech, et cetera. No browser handles everything that CSS2 covers. What you can expect from us for 4.1 is a level of partial CSS1 compatibility comparable with (perhaps even better than) Netscape 4.7x. For future releases we'll plan on full CSS1 and CSS-P support, and support for the parts of CSS2 which make sense.
Rick Roe
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Gregory
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Mar 17, 2002, 07:34 PM
 
Maxtor: I open windows behind and have to respond to "Accept/Reject" for all cookies. I never saw the frame come up whether to accept cookies. Something hung when it started to load and wanted to put the cookie sheet in front.

I dislike it when Stuffit Expander, or request for cookies, or a web page pups up/under in front. I can be typing, reading, working, and it just plain is annoying and gets in the way. Too much "in your face."

When Maxtor first loads, there are three steps:
www.maxtor.com

http://www.maxtor.com/FrameBody.htm
http://www.maxtor.com./Maxtorhome.htm

I think it hung on switching to /FrameBody.htm

But it is fine now...

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Gregory ]
     
oeyvind
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Mar 17, 2002, 10:09 PM
 
Originally posted by Rickster:
<STRONG>Also, oeyvind, could you describe your international characters problem in more detail? I don't read Japanese (none of us at Omni do), so it's sort of hard to tell what to do to reproduce the problem. (It sounds sort of like an issue of text encodings for form submission, which you might be able to do something about in the HTML Display preferences pane.)
</STRONG>
Rickster: ok, try this: http://products2.taxan.co.jp/index.htm &lt;- sometimes I can't even get to this page... if not try using MSIE (it will go thru).

Now, scroll down and click on the 1st item in News Release, the URL copy via MSIE is <font color = red>http://211.132.172.169/taxan-item/FMPro?-db=taxan-item.fmj&-format=record_detail.htm&-lay=���C�A�E�g1&��i�^�=PBG4%20COMB&-find</font>.

I can't even get to the main product page in OW 4.1 sp58, u will get 2 frames, upper one will come out with FileMaker Pro server query error and the lower one with a Search Panel. The only way to access the page via OW is to key in "4936461176908" in the Search Panel which the item's porduct number.

OK, now when you finally got to the page via the above method in OW, right click on the 1st item on the left, PowerBook G3'98, you can see OW does copy all the Japanese Character correctly (the Kanji) but when u try to click it... u will get a FMP server query error-no problem with MSIE 5.12 (which I still keep for compatibility reason).

OW also seems to have problem when comes to Frames... the chnages in text encoding does not apply to all the frames (can only be fixed now by changing the default text encoding).

Thanks for reading and file this as say a P1 bug in your bug database.

P.S. If u need to contact me, feel free to do so at oeyvind "AT" mac "dot" com

[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: oeyvind ]
     
cpac
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Mar 18, 2002, 12:57 AM
 
Originally posted by Rickster:
<STRONG>what we're missing is support for certain parts of the Document Object Model, which lets JavaScript refer to and control elements of HTML/CSS documents.</STRONG>
This sounds like what 90% of my javascript problems are caused by.

Here's hoping it's a part that makes 4.1!

cpac
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ImpishLM
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Mar 18, 2002, 12:07 PM
 
I haven't tried a sp version since its number was in the 30's.... it's now 58, I think.

Do the latest builds allow you to use iTools Homepage yet? Selecting a folder of photos is from a Java-based list, which 4.1 beta can't display. How I hate to have to switch to IE to work with my home page!
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JKT
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Mar 18, 2002, 12:20 PM
 
Originally posted by ImpishLM:
<STRONG>I haven't tried a sp version since its number was in the 30's.... it's now 58, I think.

Do the latest builds allow you to use iTools Homepage yet? Selecting a folder of photos is from a Java-based list, which 4.1 beta can't display. How I hate to have to switch to IE to work with my home page!</STRONG>
Nope, and 4.1 isn't going to let you either. Read a response Rickster made to me about it - back on p.16 (edit: see below) of this thread. It isn't the javascript so much, it is the use of Dynamic HTML which the 4.1 rendering engine can't be coded to handle (apparently).

quote: If Javascript compatability was a priority for 4.1, I'm interested to know why the iTools website is still impossible to use?

The problems with iTools are not with JavaScript alone. The "file chooser" super-widget you see in HomePage and Make Your Own iCards requires support for relative-positioned layers and a few other "Dynamic HTML" technologies which just aren't possible under our current rendering architecture. Ditto for the drag-and-drop rearrange-ability of HomePage Photo Album editing, and the cool playlist builder widget from QuickTime Streaming Server 4.

Obviously these high-profile applications should be a priority for us, and indeed they are... you can bet we'll be testing them a lot as we work towards OmniWeb 5.
[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: JKT ]
     
Gregory
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Mar 18, 2002, 02:33 PM
 
iTools

I just downloaded Mozilla 0.9.9+ and the MRJ plug-in, and was surprised to see I can access and use iTools. I was surprised. I can live w/o IE but it seems I need to keep Mozilla along with OmniWeb.

Save output - pdf and text

Haven't fired up iCab - I actually can't stand using it unless I have to or need to filter everything and want to do some research that I need to save to text files. Saving pdf works but is large and there are times when I want text and not html formatted files either.
     
davidb224
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Mar 18, 2002, 04:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Gregory:
<STRONG>iTools

I just downloaded Mozilla 0.9.9+ and the MRJ plug-in, and was surprised to see I can access and use iTools. I was surprised. I can live w/o IE but it seems I need to keep Mozilla along with OmniWeb.</STRONG>
I can run iTools in either one (OW 4.1sp58 or Mozilla 0.9.9)
davidb
     
Gregory
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Mar 18, 2002, 06:43 PM
 
When I tried this morning, iTools graphics on the login screen looked messed up. Went back now and it tells me "Sorry, your browser is not supported. Use Internet Explorer or Netscape 4.78."

Apple, you need to make iTools easier to use maybe? and put in a plug for Mozilla.
     
JKT
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Mar 18, 2002, 06:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Gregory:
<STRONG>iTools

I just downloaded Mozilla 0.9.9+ and the MRJ plug-in, and was surprised to see I can access and use iTools. I was surprised. I can live w/o IE but it seems I need to keep Mozilla along with OmniWeb.

Save output - pdf and text

Haven't fired up iCab - I actually can't stand using it unless I have to or need to filter everything and want to do some research that I need to save to text files. Saving pdf works but is large and there are times when I want text and not html formatted files either.</STRONG>
I just tried Moz 0.9.9 and the Fizzilla MRJ 1.0.2b plug-in and it has similar problems to OmniWeb - you can get in, but it isn't possible to do anything with Homepage when there... I will be IE free at some point, but it isn't now
     
Since EBCDIC
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Mar 19, 2002, 06:26 AM
 
I've been using (my purchased copy of) OmniWeb as my only browser for a long time now (and been very happy with it).

However, it seems that OmniWeb has some serious troubles rendering tables quickly. Such troubles that it's a real bother to browse and participate in a particular web-based bulletin board system. Enough of a bother that I've resorted to using another browser for this site. A real shame in my personal sandbox, YMMV :-)

For example, and a reproducible test case, visit this page first with OmniWeb and then with another browser of your liking. I'm guessing you'll see that OmniWeb lags.

I don't know where speeding up tables is on OmniGroup's relatively infinite list of extremely important things to do, but I would really like to be able to go back to OmniWeb as my only browser.
Since EBCDIC
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Neo.cmg
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Mar 19, 2002, 12:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Since EBCDIC:
<STRONG>I've been using (my purchased copy of) OmniWeb as my only browser for a long time now (and been very happy with it).

However, it seems that OmniWeb has some serious troubles rendering tables quickly. Such troubles that it's a real bother to browse and participate in a particular web-based bulletin board system. Enough of a bother that I've resorted to using another browser for this site. A real shame in my personal sandbox, YMMV :-)

For example, and a reproducible test case, visit this page first with OmniWeb and then with another browser of your liking. I'm guessing you'll see that OmniWeb lags.

I don't know where speeding up tables is on OmniGroup's relatively infinite list of extremely important things to do, but I would really like to be able to go back to OmniWeb as my only browser.</STRONG>

Go see my reply to this exact same post in the thread you created.

Neo.cmg
     
Spirit_VW
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Mar 20, 2002, 01:31 AM
 
Making progress....before, OW wouldn't display the nav bar on a site I go to quite a bit - with SP 54 (or something, maybe 56, not the most current as I don't have that yet) displays it, but on the wrong side and half-unusable under an image. Still, progress is progress!
Kevin Buchanan
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cpac
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Mar 20, 2002, 12:03 PM
 
sp 58 - anybody else getting positioning weirdness that causes pages to look all funky? (e.g. www.adobe.com, lawschool.westlaw.com, &c.)?

cpac
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asxless
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Mar 20, 2002, 12:55 PM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
<STRONG>sp 58 - anybody else getting positioning weirdness that causes pages to look all funky?</STRONG>
Yes. www.adobe.com has oversized nav links and grey areas distributed around the page. - asxless
     
Rex
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Mar 20, 2002, 01:17 PM
 
go see www.carsdirect.com, rendering is a mess. I'm quite sure it worked well with previous builds
     
atomium
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Mar 20, 2002, 02:21 PM
 
The shoulder boxes (vertially aligned boxes at the top right of the article content) on washingtonpost.com are all mis-aligned and weird looking with SP58 (link to example). Not sure when this started happening, but I think it's fairly recent. Also messing up are the search boxes on the front page.

I was hoping to get clean screen grabs of this site in Omniweb for a project. If anyone has an SP that isn't showing these problems, I'd love to know one that works.

Thanks.

-atomium
     
sinebubble
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Mar 20, 2002, 03:09 PM
 
Rickster,
I sent in a request a while back regarding check boxes in Netscape mail. If I check a box to delete a message, I get a "Javascript: Please select messages to delete by using the checkboxes" error. Frustrating. OW doesn't work too well with Exchanges web mail interface, but that is to be expected. If Omni could patch OW to support checkboxes in Netscape mail, that would be huge for me (hint, hint).
Brian

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cpac
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Mar 20, 2002, 03:29 PM
 
Originally posted by sinebubble:
<STRONG>Rickster,
I sent in a request a while back regarding check boxes in Netscape mail. If I check a box to delete a message, I get a "Javascript: Please select messages to delete by using the checkboxes" error. Frustrating. OW doesn't work too well with Exchanges web mail interface, but that is to be expected. If Omni could patch OW to support checkboxes in Netscape mail, that would be huge for me (hint, hint).</STRONG>
I had similar problems with loislaw.com (low cost alternative to Westlaw or Lexis) but they were resolved at least as of sp 58. Have you tried with the most recent build?

cpac
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sinebubble
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Mar 20, 2002, 05:35 PM
 
I have 58 and it's still broke...

Originally posted by cpac:
<STRONG>

I had similar problems with loislaw.com (low cost alternative to Westlaw or Lexis) but they were resolved at least as of sp 58. Have you tried with the most recent build?

cpac</STRONG>
Brian

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Mr. Blur
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Mar 20, 2002, 10:12 PM
 
......Sp59 was just posted....my d/l just finished....
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malvolio
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Mar 20, 2002, 11:02 PM
 
I'm using SP 59 right now. The Washington Post & Adobe websites look just fine.
/mal
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davidb224
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Mar 21, 2002, 01:09 AM
 
Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>I'm using SP 59 right now</STRONG>
Yeah...I've got sp59 also, but the download was a struggle; even the new server was full as hell...

it took as long to get this download as when things were real messy at Omnigroup before the new server. I guess the growth in the popularity of OW 4.1 is showing up in their server congestion.
davidb
     
cpac
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Mar 21, 2002, 01:35 AM
 
Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>I'm using SP 59 right now. The Washington Post & Adobe websites look just fine.
</STRONG>
http://lawschool.westlaw.com is still messed up in sp 59 (positioning of the sign-in box on the right hand side of the page is screwy) even though it worked as recently as sp 57...

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Diggory Laycock
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: London
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Mar 21, 2002, 06:11 AM
 
www.cocoadevcentral.com suddenly looks very strange in OW sp59


Also what do people think of the following - I frequently dock many OW windows for later use, when I accidentally quit OW or log-out these windows are closed automatically.

What do people think about the option of an textEdit/Opera-style "there are windows still open. Do you wish to review them." dialog?

It's not very Mac-like, but could be useful (as an option)
     
Developer
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: europe
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Mar 21, 2002, 11:11 AM
 
sp59 fixes the problem with lines around CyberStudio layout tables. Thanks for that.

Lists are still rendered incorrectly though.
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
Sine
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Zion
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Mar 21, 2002, 11:31 AM
 
I noticed Omniweb STILL has the selection of text bug.. esp in forum input boxes. Sometimes when I go to select text from a reply in the forums input box Omni just stops working and I have to force quit and restart. This has been happening since the first 4.1 SP.

Very aggravating.
     
Gregory
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Join Date: Sep 1999
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Mar 21, 2002, 01:03 PM
 
I notice that the replies in this thread don't wrap to window in SP 59.

Probably the BBS software doesn't handle window size properly. I can only see the full line of text of I stretch the OmniWeb page to the width of monitor (1280x1024) which is annoying.

NEAT FEATURE - when I drag a window from the 19" monitor to the 15" LCD it automatically resizes so it doesn't extend below the screen!

When I drag it back, it remains small (don't know if you'd want it to jump back to larger size). That is the kind of "smarts' that makes this such a great tool and browser - is that universal (ie, Aqua + Quartz OS?) or something you'll only find in OmniWeb?
     
Rickster
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Vancouver, WA
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Mar 21, 2002, 04:55 PM
 
NEAT FEATURE - when I drag a window from the 19" monitor to the 15" LCD it automatically resizes so it doesn't extend below the screen
Pretty cool... but not something of ours, I don't think. Must be one of those cool secret things Cocoa apps get for free.
Rick Roe
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Mr. Blur
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere, but not here.
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Mar 22, 2002, 12:21 AM
 
...and now sp60 is up....i've been using it for only 15 minutes or so - too early to rate the "snappy factor"
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity...
     
 
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