[MrBS]

Originally posted by ImpishLM:
<STRONG>The OW icon in my dock now has a green lightning bolt with the number 1 on it. What's this about?

Also, why are all the buttons in this forum (Post Reply, Post New Topic, etc.) replaced by the "broken image" icon? They still work, of course; just their images are affected.</STRONG>

The green lightning means ow checked a site and found it updated. Click on the icon and hold down and you'll have a list of all the updated bookmarks. If you don't like this behavior, or want to fine tune it, change the default check in the bookmark preferences. You can also set a unique check time for individual bookmarks by selecting a bookmark in the bookmark pane and hitting apple i.
~BS

[dazzla]

Can anyone offer a mirror of the latest beta? I've been trying planet mirror and the official site but get connection timed out all the time.

[Mediaman_12]

Planet Mirror is now coming up with a 'page not found' message
Ahh but downloading the 'English' version direct from the Omni FTP server was a success

Omni FTP Sneeky Peek directory

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Mediaman_12 ]

[malvolio]

The ftp directory is showing only sp 82, no 83 in any version.

[MrBS]

Well... you want 84...
~BS

sp84

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: MrBS ]

[ac2c]

That was interesting. SP 82 which was a move backwards, then OW saying that v83 was available, which it wasn't, and finally I get sp84. It must have really been Friday at Omni.

Now lets see if 84 renders properly.

[iKevin]

OmniWeb....forever beta

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by iKevin:
<STRONG>OmniWeb....forever beta</STRONG>

That should be their official motto... maybe toss it into the startup screen.

[Big Mac]

Since I don't maintain constant watch over this thread, can someone update me as to the current progress of these SneakyPeeks? I really like OmniWeb and hope it surpasses everything else available by all measurements (which shouldn't be hard).

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
<STRONG>Since I don't maintain constant watch over this thread, can someone update me as to the current progress of these SneakyPeeks? I really like OmniWeb and hope it surpasses everything else available by all measurements (which shouldn't be hard).</STRONG>

1. snappier
2. bug fixes
3. some extra support

thats all

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by starfleetX:
<STRONG>That should be their official motto... maybe toss it into the startup screen. </STRONG>

Microsoft Office is "Final" and should be called Beta. OW is Beta though it's "Final" quality.

What it is called doesn't matter.

[me]

This actually raises an important question, has OmniWeb 4.1's continued beta status started yielding diminishing returns? I'm sure all of us around this thread know the 4.1 rendering engine has its limits, some things only 5 will solve. Is it time to say continuing work on 4.1 isn't making great progress anymore? I'm using SP84, its fast, stable, renders almost every page I visit right (and I don't think those will get better till 5 anyway). What is OmniGroup waiting for???

My advice, pick the last few big bugs and crashers, fix them up, and call OmniWeb 4.1 done. Take a week off, then we want to see OmniWeb 5sp1 soon thereafter .

[Montanan]

Originally posted by me:
<STRONG>

My advice, pick the last few big bugs and crashers, fix them up, and call OmniWeb 4.1 done. Take a week off, then we want to see OmniWeb 5sp1 soon thereafter .</STRONG>

I'll second that motion ... heck, as far as I'm concerned you can even go ahead and take two weeks off!

Seriously, it seems like the fine-tuning of the last few SP's hasn't really changed things too much, overall ... and if the recent VersionTracker problem is any indication, the tinkering is breaking sites at almost the same rate that it's fixing them. The problems that still matter to me are the big ones that the next major upgrade will supposedly address: stuff like scroll speed, Java, tabbed interface, and so on. I'd be very encouraged to hear that the OW development team was moving on to tackle those issues.

Ahhh ... such fun to be an armchair quarterback!

[solitere]

I have to say after 84 sneaky peaks they dont�t have css working properly yet! http://www.Macslash.com is acting wierd (scroll down the macslash homepage). And still http://www.idg.se have "double" text

When will they get it right?

[dont.wanna.tell]

Also VersionTracker is still verry wrong for me.

The start page is ok, but when I get details on an app OmniWeb almost certainly screws completely.

The strange thing for me is that some of these pages seem to work.

���

cu Martin

[Sharky K.]

The last sneakypeeks also do not handle "back" navigation very well with frames... very strange

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
<STRONG>The last sneakypeeks also do not handle "back" navigation very well with frames... very strange</STRONG>

OmniWeb has *never* properly handled the "back" when browsing certain pages with frames for me. For example, long ago (and on occasion after every few builds) I tried using OmniWeb to browse the HTML help files that come with some apps (like Audion) and pressing back always messed up the order of the frames.

[ImpishLM]

The forever-beta status of OW 4.1 is getting silly. Clearly, Omni feels that if it removes the 'beta' tag, complaints will get louder about the things that don't work. Omni's right: more people will buy the final version, and then be upset when 4.1 remains a NOT-full-featured browser.

It's too late to release 4.1 non-beta, IMHO. They should skip this altogether, keep posting sp's until they get Java fixed -- the most important (and embarrassing) problem with OW -- and release 5.0.

[z0mbi3]

I think SP84 broke something...at least, before I started using it (I was using SP82) this homepage (http://www.gildot.org) appeared correctly, now it appears incorrectly
does anyone else got that behavior ?

[Guy Incognito]

As much as I respect Omni, I think this 4.1 sneakypeek bullcrap has got to stop.

Everytime a new sneakypeek comes out, 3 sites begin to render correctly and 4 sites break. There is no progress anymore. I know you'll all tell me, "screw off, Guy. These are sneakypeeks, things will break for sure since they are simply the 'build-of-the-day'" but for Christsake...4.1's been in beta for almost a year now with no real end in sight and no real progress.
Sure, the rendering engine has been optimized for better speed along the way but when it comes to compatibility with sites, the changes to the code break as many sites as they fix. OmniWeb is in a state of limbo, IMO. Just ship whatever's there and start working on 5.0.

[JKT]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>As much as I respect Omni, I think this 4.1 sneakypeek bullcrap has got to stop.

Everytime a new sneakypeek comes out, 3 sites begin to render correctly and 4 sites break. There is no progress anymore. I know you'll all tell me, "screw off, Guy. These are sneakypeeks, things will break for sure since they are simply the 'build-of-the-day'" but for Christsake...4.1's been in beta for almost a year now with no real end in sight and no real progress.
Sure, the rendering engine has been optimized for better speed along the way but when it comes to compatibility with sites, the changes to the code break as many sites as they fix. OmniWeb is in a state of limbo, IMO. Just ship whatever's there and start working on 5.0.</STRONG>

It was my understanding that the e.g. CSS compatibility work etc that is being done with 4.1 now would be rolled into 5.0, so their taking their time to get 4.1 as right as possible has little to no impact on the work for 5.0

I guess Rickster or someone will put me right if that impression is incorrect.

FWIW, 4.1 hasn't been in beta for over a year now - it has only been in beta since 4.1 b1, which IIRC was only released sometime near the beginning of this year. Prior to that it was in alpha.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by JKT:
<STRONG>

It was my understanding that the e.g. CSS compatibility work etc that is being done with 4.1 now would be rolled into 5.0, so their taking their time to get 4.1 as right as possible has little to no impact on the work for 5.0

I guess Rickster or someone will put me right if that impression is incorrect.

FWIW, 4.1 hasn't been in beta for over a year now - it has only been in beta since 4.1 b1, which IIRC was only released sometime near the beginning of this year. Prior to that it was in alpha.</STRONG>

Beta...alpha...it's all the same now. It used to mean something back then; it doesn't now.

[Rex]

SP84 is a disaster, I'm going back to beta6 and wait.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>

Beta...alpha...it's all the same now. It used to mean something back then; it doesn't now.</STRONG>

So all these people complaining about the long development period would rather what:

1) Omni "released" a lower quality 4.1? (this way you can sit around and ***** until 4.2 comes out or???)

2) Omni didn't make sp's available at all? (this would be like most companies)

Come on now, yes it's been quite a while since sp1, but we've also come a hell of a long way since then. If you think 4.1/5.0 needs more developers on it, go ahead and send Omni a big fat donation (or at least register your current copy of OW). I personally am quite pleased that we get to try out a new sp build every few days, but many of you, it sounds, would be better off sticking to just the betas, or perhaps having kept 4.0.6 (or IE) and ignored OWs development completely until 4.1 *does* go final.

For those of you with this problem I'd suggest downloading another copy of 4.0.6 and using it as your default until 4.1 final comes out (or even just for a week or a few days). I will guarantee you'll be shocked and amazed at the increase in speed and compatibility of 4.1. Just because Omni is kind enough to let us peak behind the curtain, this shouldn't destroy y'all's perspective in the way it seems to be doing.

[Gregory]

Mozilla is the same way. Some good. Some not so. 18 months of daily builds of Mozilla hasn't resulted in a finished product yet either.

Some might point out that OS X stopped being unstable and is therefore no longer beta. New compilers and tools, new documentation, learn-as-you go and all the rest. Apple had to cheat to get 5 million people using OS X and push it.

However, a web browser having to deal with all the various flavors of html, scripting, java, and what-not is almost asking too much. Maybe if there was a way to tell web sites, if you want our business, clean up your html or else. Or "optimized for MSIE" b.s.

Even posting replies to forums, some don't show the dialogue box in the window, don't 'remember' userid, real basic stuff.

Mozilla right now seems great - but it quit when I tried to open a simple page. Was slow to respond to Print command or a Save. All I have to do to screw it up is try to change the DPI used to render text and fonts to something other than 72 dpi or 96.

How many lines of code? I'm sure it is huge.

[Montanan]

I don't see most of these comments as complaining. Armchair quarterbacking ... definitely! But for nearly all of us, I'm sure that's an indication only of interest and support for the product.

Personally, I still have to keep a copy of IE around to access a couple of travel and banking sites that I frequently use, and that I suspect OW won't be able to properly display until at least version 5. But I still use OW all that I can, both because the browser shows such great promise, and because the company itself seems so responsive and cool. The SP process is a big part of that for me, and I think (hope) that OW clearly values the input that's generated here, even if a little griping creeps into the process every now and then.

[cpac]

From the OW mailing list:

That table bug is the only thing holding back the 4.1 final release.

Ken

-----------------

So looks like 4.1 is just around the corner.

[davidb224]

Originally posted by cpac:
<STRONG>So looks like 4.1 is just around the corner.</STRONG>

Then on to OW4.2 sp1...right?

[SwarmyCurve]

It may be getting a little silly with this beta number 80+... but lets not forget the clunky swiss army knife that is Mozilla. That has been eternally &lt;version1.

[benh57]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>As much as I respect Omni, I think this 4.1 sneakypeek bullcrap has got to stop.
</STRONG>

You clearly don't work in the software industry.

Idiotic comments like this are the reason most companies don't post builds-of-the-day.

[MrBS]

85 is out, I recommend you backup your bookmark file before you install it.
~BS

[ac2c]

And sp85 hits the bricks. In this case a wall on Version Tracker. Although it loads it better than it did in 84, it still stumbles on it. Oh well, maybe in 86.

[MrBS]

Nevermind. It doesn't delete your bookmarks. It just looks for them in the wrong place, and when they're not there, it creates a new file.
Bookmarks should be in ~/Library/Application Support/OmniWeb/bookmarks.html
but 85 looks for them (and then creates them) in ~/Library/ApplicationSupport/OmniWeb/bookmarks.html
(notice no space in ApplicationSupport)


~BS

[MrBS]

Originally posted by ac2c:
<STRONG>And sp85 hits the bricks. In this case a wall on Version Tracker. Although it loads it better than it did in 84, it still stumbles on it. Oh well, maybe in 86.</STRONG>

Version Tracker works fine for me under 85. What problems are you having?
~BS

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by benh57:
<STRONG>

You clearly don't work in the software industry.

Idiotic comments like this are the reason most companies don't post builds-of-the-day.</STRONG>

I don't mind sneakypeeks...in fact, I love 'em. But after 80 sneakypeeks, it's getting old. I wasn't expecting more than 30 sneakypeeks way back when the first sneakypeeks were up. Boy was I wrong. Move on to 5.0 I say! Release what's there now! It's stable and renders fast enough.

[neutrino23]

Question for you OW experts. Is there a way to log the network activity? I want to see what gets sent out when I click on a button in a particular page. I can see briefly that it composes something with my response and sends it out but it happens way to fast to try to grab it.

thanks

[SMacSteve]

OK, now this is a silly mistake. They really messed up my bookmarks by putting the two words together. Now I can't get the old ones to work! I tried dragging all of the prefs from the old app. folder into the new one and it still uses the ones I started to correct before I found out this mistake. (I also thought they were lost and started to rebuild my bookmarks manually.) Any fix to this and can I delete the "ApplicationSupport" folder and go back to the "Application Support" or will the sp 85 not know where to look for it?

Any what's up with this browser not rendering the whole page still. It never seems to have consistently and it's starting to be really annoying.

[Rex]

Originally posted by SMacSteve:
<STRONG>OK, now this is a silly mistake. They really messed up my bookmarks by putting the two words together. Now I can't get the old ones to work! I tried dragging all of the prefs from the old app. folder into the new one and it still uses the ones I started to correct before I found out this mistake. (I also thought they were lost and started to rebuild my bookmarks manually.) Any fix to this and can I delete the "ApplicationSupport" folder and go back to the "Application Support" or will the sp 85 not know where to look for it?

Any what's up with this browser not rendering the whole page still. It never seems to have consistently and it's starting to be really annoying.</STRONG>

I went through the same thing.
Finally I copied ONLY the Bookmarks.html file into the new ApplicationSupport/Omniweb folder and left all the other files (Cookies, History etc.) in the original Application Support/Omniweb folder. It seems to work for now but I think it's the pref file that is screwed, I haven't tried to trash it because I didn't feel like reworking all my prefs.

[cLouD[x]]

Tsk tsk, there isnt need to move anything around

the location of the bookmarks.htm file can be altered in the prefs.

file:///~/Library/Application%20Support/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html

copy and paste this into the field and your old bookmarks should be in place.

P.S. This is a sneakypeek. Mistakes like these are bound to happen.

[Back up 15 and punt]

Originally posted by cLouD[x]:
<STRONG>Tsk tsk, there isnt need to move anything around

the location of the bookmarks.htm file can be altered in the prefs.

file:///~/Library/Application%20Support/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html

copy and paste this into the field and your old bookmarks should be in place.

P.S. This is a sneakypeek. Mistakes like these are bound to happen.</STRONG>

This doesn't work. It would be nice if you try this yourself before misleading others.

[cpac]

Yes sp 86 looks in the wrong place for you bookmarks (& history) but what's all this talk about missing preferences &c.? Preferences aren't kept in the Application Support folder - just the Preferences folder where they should be. (and so there shouldn't be any problem)

While it was annoying to have to import my bookmarks from the old file, it took all of 3 seconds to do.

Not a *huge* problem people.

Also -for the person who said they expected 30 sneakypeeks - these are nightly builds, you expected them to finish 4.1 in six weeks? Sounds like you'd be better of sticking to 4.0.6 until a newer final version of OW is released...

[davidb224]

I just downloaded sp86 and found that in the process something, somehow deleted my personal bookmarks. I've downloaded and installed every "sp" since about sp3 and that has never happened before.

I guess they want you to have a new and clean set of bookmarks now with sp86....

[cpac]

Originally posted by davidb224:
<STRONG>I just downloaded sp86 and found that in the process something, somehow deleted my personal bookmarks. I've downloaded and installed every "sp" since about sp3 and that has never happened before.

I guess they want you to have a new and clean set of bookmarks now with sp86....</STRONG>

Try reading the last 10 or so posts...

[JKT]

FWIW, all you have to do is copy the entire OmniWeb folder from the ~/Library/Application Support folder to the ~/Library/ApplicationSupport folder created by sp85/86 to get all your history and bookmarks back as they were.

Then when Omnigroup gets on the ball and corrects this bug, just copy it back again for the version that corrects it.

[davidb224]

Originally posted by JKT:
<STRONG>FWIW, all you have to do is copy the entire OmniWeb folder from the ~/Library/Application Support folder to the ~/Library/ApplicationSupport folder created by sp85/86 to get all your history and bookmarks back as they were.</STRONG>

Thank you for this suggestion.

[Rex]

Originally posted by Back up 15 and punt:
<STRONG>

This doesn't work. It would be nice if you try this yourself before misleading others.</STRONG>

It worked for me. I found this workaround better than having 2 different folders where OW goes look for info. JKT's suggestion is somehow inaccurate. The only file OW looks for in the "new" ApplicationSupport/Omniweb folder is the bookmark file. If you move ALL the contents from the "original" folder, OW will create "fresh" cookies and history files, and when you'll move back, they won't be up to date.

[JKT]

Originally posted by Rex:
<STRONG>

It worked for me. I found this workaround better than having 2 different folders where OW goes look for info. JKT's suggestion is somehow inaccurate. The only file OW looks for in the "new" ApplicationSupport/Omniweb folder is the bookmark file. If you move ALL the contents from the "original" folder, OW will create "fresh" cookies and history files, and when you'll move back, they won't be up to date.</STRONG>

My bad.

Anyway, sp86 solves the problem... but I had to edit out two lines in my com.omniroup.OmniWeb.plist file before it would work properly so if anyone else is having the same problem do this:

1) Quit OmniWeb
2) open the com.omniroup.OmniWeb.plist file in TextEdit and find the following two concurrent strings:

&lt;key&gt;BookmarkPage&lt;/key&gt;
&lt;string&gt;file:///~/Library/Application Support/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html&lt;/string&gt;

2) Delete those two lines and save the .plist
3) Delete the ~/Library/ApplicationSupport folder (recover your bookmark file if you have altered it at all since installing sp85)\
4) Restart OW sp86

Prior to doing this sp86 was still creating the ~/Library/ApplicationSupport folder for me, even though I had deleted it.

[cLouD[x]]

[EDIT]
I just installed sp86 from sp 85 and my bookmarks are still in tact.
No new ApplicationSupport folder created. Im using the English version though, not the International 6 megs one.
[/EDIT]

[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: cLouD[x] ]

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by cLouD[x]:
<STRONG>[EDIT]
I just installed sp86 from sp 85 and my bookmarks are still in tact.
No new ApplicationSupport folder created. Im using the English version though, not the International 6 megs one.
[/EDIT]

[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: cLouD[x] ]</STRONG>

with the international version also no problems... maybe they fixed the problem very fast

[Gwenhiver]

Originally posted by neutrino23:
<STRONG>Question for you OW experts. Is there a way to log the network activity? I want to see what gets sent out when I click on a button in a particular page. I can see briefly that it composes something with my response and sends it out but it happens way to fast to try to grab it.</STRONG>

Just activate the Error Log in the Tools menu. Click Clear Log and check Show HTTP requests if you want a detailed log, and click on that button you want to log.