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Dark Helmet · Apr 6, 2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

These words about Boot Camp from a MS representative are kinda hilarious:

"Windows is a great operating system. We're pleased that Apple customers are excited about running it, and that Apple is responding to meet the demand."

Yes dude, we are giving up on Mac OS X… LOL

Funny thing is I knew that would be their response the second I head about bootcamp.

Dakar · Apr 6, 2006, 02:09 PM

I have a mental picture of a punch of dorks in redmond crossing their fingers going "Ohplease ohplease ohplease ohplease ohplease," hoping for OS Xs demise.

Big Mac · Apr 6, 2006, 02:39 PM

Oh yeah, everyone in Redmond is very pleased with this. I don't know why something that M$ takes great pleasure in - Apple's capitulation - should cause those faithful to Apple to dance for joy.

production_coordinator · Apr 6, 2006, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Funny thing is I knew that would be their response the second I head about bootcamp.

Bingo... I was waiting for it to be even worse... like "Apple has finally come around to accepting that Windows is a superior operating system... bla bla bla"

Microsoft must be happy... it's Dell, HP, Sony... that I'm guessing are a little nervous.

Buying a Dell or HP isn't "cool".

MindFad · Apr 6, 2006, 02:59 PM

A piece of sky almost hit my house today.

Dakar · Apr 6, 2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by MindFad

A piece of sky almost hit my house today.

You really should get cloud insurance.

angelmb · Apr 6, 2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Funny thing is I knew that would be their response the second I head about bootcamp.

Yes, I guess everybody could have echoed that, but I find 100% retarded to claim such affirmations (I mean Microsoft, not you!). Are they trying to fool everyone (lacking some common sense) ?.

Let me repeat, no Mac user is going to give up the wonderful Mac OS X and run instead your dated OS, so please don't tell me Windows is a great OS and I am so excited about running it… you are wrong, 100% wrong.

Yutuke · Apr 6, 2006, 04:46 PM

Hello,

Can soemone tell me what version of XP-Pro/Home-SP2 they are using? I've only got the "Upgrade" version. Does BootCamp work with that? Or do you need the "No Existing Windows" full version?

Thanks.

Dark Helmet · Apr 6, 2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Let me repeat, no Mac user is going to give up the wonderful Mac OS X and run instead your dated OS, so please don't tell me Windows is a great OS and I am so excited about running it… you are wrong, 100% wrong.

True, and I don't think ANYONE will buy a Mac to run windows 100%. They MIGHT initially do it but get converted the second they go into OSX.

Spliffdaddy · Apr 6, 2006, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Yutuke

Hello,

Can soemone tell me what version of XP-Pro/Home-SP2 they are using? I've only got the "Upgrade" version. Does BootCamp work with that? Or do you need the "No Existing Windows" full version?

Thanks.

The Windows installer is going to ask you for the disk of a 'full' version of Windows - to make sure you have it. Do you know anybody with a prior Windows full version? It won't need any of the files off of it - it just wants to check the disk to check compliance with the 'upgrade' version.

You don't have to actually install the 'full' version before you run the 'upgrade' version. The 'upgrade' contains everything the 'full' version contains - except the 'upgrade' version stops to ask you for the a prior edition of a 'full' version of Windows.

jasonsRX7 · Apr 6, 2006, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

They MIGHT initially do it but get converted the second they go into OSX.

I wouldn't count on that. Most of my Windows-using friends who sit down at my Mac get frustrated quickly because it doesn't work exactly how they're used to. They won't spend more than 2 or 3 minutes trying to figure out something they don't understand if they don't have to.

Dakar · Apr 6, 2006, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

True, and I don't think ANYONE will buy a Mac to run windows 100%. They MIGHT initially do it but get converted the second they go into OSX.

I could see a dumb celebrity doing it and that's about it.

Homer1946 · Apr 6, 2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

"Windows is a great operating system. We're pleased that Apple customers are excited about running it, and that Apple is responding to meet the demand."

Why is anybody paying attention to this. OF COURSE MS is going to respond this way. It's marketing. Saying stuff like this is that guys JOB. Apple would have responded EXACTLY the same way, and have.

Person Man · Apr 6, 2006, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The Windows installer is going to ask you for the disk of a 'full' version of Windows - to make sure you have it. Do you know anybody with a prior Windows full version? It won't need any of the files off of it - it just wants to check the disk to check compliance with the 'upgrade' version.

You don't have to actually install the 'full' version before you run the 'upgrade' version. The 'upgrade' contains everything the 'full' version contains - except the 'upgrade' version stops to ask you for the a prior edition of a 'full' version of Windows.

But since you have to manually eject the disc to put in a full disk of the prior windows version, you won't be able to because Macs don't have eject buttons on their drives.

The beta version of Boot Camp requires a full version of Windows XP SP2, home or professional. Upgrade and OEM discs need not apply.

Slipstreamed SP2 full discs work.

stevesnj · Apr 6, 2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

... because Macs don't have eject buttons on their drives.

not true...they have an emergency eject button and if your fast enough to switch disks it is possible to eject a disc during boot.

harrisjamieh · Apr 6, 2006, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

not true...they have an emergency eject button and if your fast enough to switch disks it is possible to eject a disc during boot.

They USED to... I challenge thee to find a physical eject button on either my iMac CD or my iBook G4.

demograph68 · Apr 6, 2006, 06:23 PM

So everyone is fine with Virtual PC but this is bad? In case no one noticed, VIRTUAL PC IS SLOW AS ****!

starman · Apr 6, 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by demograph68

So everyone is fine with Virtual PC but this is bad? In case no one noticed, VIRTUAL PC IS SLOW AS ****!

Uh, VirtualPC WAS slow because you had to go from PPC->Intel. No longer.

demograph68 · Apr 6, 2006, 06:39 PM

Exactly, so now that it runs at native speeds, people are making it look like Apple is doomed or something. I don't see what the fuss is.

Dark Helmet · Apr 6, 2006, 06:55 PM

" If Apple and Microsoft are like Russia and the U.S. in the 1980s, then Apple moving to Intel was like Russia suddenly joining NATO."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...echnology/home

Dark Helmet · Apr 6, 2006, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by demograph68

Exactly, so now that it runs at native speeds, people are making it look like Apple is doomed or something. I don't see what the fuss is.

People think since it can run in native speeds and you don't even have to boot into Mac OS X that developers won't make Mac software any more and just tell you to reboot into windows.

production_coordinator · Apr 6, 2006, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

People think since it can run in native speeds and you don't even have to boot into Mac OS X that developers won't make Mac software any more and just tell you to reboot into windows.

While I can see this happening with some things (very niche applications), most computer users would say "do what?" if told to simply install a second OS on their Mac, and run a boot loader program.

For a geek, it's no big deal, for the rest of the population, it's like saying "oh, just open up your Mac and install some RAM"

Most users wouldn't feel comfortable installing such a program... so they would simply look for a native alternative.

production_coordinator · Apr 6, 2006, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

True, and I don't think ANYONE will buy a Mac to run windows 100%. They MIGHT initially do it but get converted the second they go into OSX.

I could... I think the iMac is cool looking... I get complements on the size of my Mac mini all the time. I think if I said "it also runs windows" I might get someone to buy.

TomR · Apr 6, 2006, 10:18 PM

Yawn. Windows on a Mac????

As the kids say.....meh.

I'll pass!

Tom

slugslugslug · Apr 6, 2006, 11:30 PM

Did you say Yawn and Meh?

Look man, it has to be either horror or elation! Just pick one!

analogika · Apr 7, 2006, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

People think since it can run in native speeds and you don't even have to boot into Mac OS X that developers won't make Mac software any more and just tell you to reboot into windows.

I don't HAVE Windows.

And I don't WANT Windows.

Seriously - nothing is changing at all, except that what used to be a deal-breaker (giving up all Windows software completely or running multiple machines) has just gone poof.

And frankly, there's an awful lot of niche products that require Windows. My friend is a sound technician who can now run out and buy a Mac (finally) and briefly boot Windows on it when he needs to run the software needed to program some of the larger consoles.

analogika · Apr 7, 2006, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

People think since it can run in native speeds and you don't even have to boot into Mac OS X that developers won't make Mac software any more and just tell you to reboot into windows.

Tell us more about what people think.

I have yet to meet a single one that thinks that.

angelmb · Apr 7, 2006, 04:19 AM

Well… then such 'windows only' software comes expensive… retail price + how much a Windows license? over 200 bucks?, no thanks.

angelmb · Apr 7, 2006, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Homer1946

Why is anybody paying attention to this. OF COURSE MS is going to respond this way. It's marketing. Saying stuff like this is that guys JOB. Apple would have responded EXACTLY the same way, and have.

Well, I don't expect McDonalds saying their burgers are top notch cuisine, I don't expect VW saying their TDI engines produce cancer… instead you get I'm loving it, drivers wanted and whatever crap they can imagine… If that is how marketing works nowadays, what a sh*t of a job.

kjartan · Apr 7, 2006, 05:35 AM

I bought myself a quad just before christmas last year, to be sure to have a mac that would last until either mac os is compatible with common pc hardware or its own again, for that matter.

I do not want windows on my workstations, and I prefere working with people that share that opinion. I try to avoid microsoft software, and hate when I come across programs I have to use that have been "translated" from the windows platform without rewriting the interface.

This latest step from Apple worries me, I can remember how I had to give up Os 8.6, then 9.2, and maybe soon osx. It is a fact that all the latest apple computers now run flawlessly with windows, while they only run most osx programs in a "virtual osx" mode, rosetta. And they don't run no "classic" applications.

Maybe it's just me that is getting tired of seeing apple more and more selling their products on looks and lifestyle instead of speed, reliability and interface. Maybe it's just me that is tired of installing security updates that have more to do with print drivers than security.

Maybe it´s just me . . . that would hate it very much to give up MAC for PC

kick52 · Apr 7, 2006, 10:26 AM

i think that with boot camp, guys like us owning intel macs that also have xp will try it out and people that have windows thinking of switching will switch, but i dont see how this is going to attract loads of customers, also once windows users actually see how amazing OS X is, i think they would throw their PC box out the door.

but i think apple should have done this a little later, while everyone is still getting their apps ported over to intel macs.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 10:31 AM

So is Boot Camp the final product name or just for the Beta?

kick52 · Apr 7, 2006, 10:36 AM

also,

even if this wasnt invented, people would have used one of the other window bootloaders...

Mastrap · Apr 7, 2006, 10:39 AM

It's a good thing. As a matter of fact it has made me think about selling my G5 and getting an Intel iMac. Being able to run XP at close to native speeds to check if things work in Windows is a huge advantage.

BRussell · Apr 7, 2006, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So is Boot Camp the final product name or just for the Beta?

Called Boot Camp (for now), you can download a public beta today.

driven · Apr 7, 2006, 11:03 AM

Yeah .... this is the first compelling reason that Ihave to sell my PowerBook G4 and upgrade to a Macbook Pro. (I will no longer have to lug two laptops with me.) <smile>

That said: I really wish that the MacBook Pro had a PC Card slot ... for the EVDO card. <sigh> Why must everything be a trade off?

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 12:59 PM

I told the PC tech person at my job about Bootcamp. The first thing she said is "Does that mean you mac can get more virus' now?"

angelmb · Apr 7, 2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I told the PC tech person at my job about Bootcamp. The first thing she said is "Does that mean you mac can get more virus' now?"

Typical coming from a PC user… always looking to Macs in the worse sense, pure genious.

Homer1946 · Apr 7, 2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Well, I don't expect McDonalds saying their burgers are top notch cuisine, I don't expect VW saying their TDI engines produce cancer… instead you get I'm loving it, drivers wanted and whatever crap they can imagine… If that is how marketing works nowadays, what a sh*t of a job.

That is how marketing has always worked, put the best spin on a product or service. Their job is not to be honest, it is to move product within the narrow realm that marketing can impact. And like many other jobs, you do the best with what you are given.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Typical coming from a PC user… always looking to Macs in the worse sense, pure genious.

I really don't think she meant it in a mean way. Just ignorant.

I had to explain to her that Virus's aren't processor dependent but OS and that any XP virus's will not spread to the Mac.

She ask "Aren't they on the same hard drive?". I said well the have their own partition but either way a windows Virus stops dead the second it hits a Mac.

Makes me wonder how much these IT people get paid.

starman · Apr 7, 2006, 01:21 PM

Typically, yes, a Windows virus would get stopped dead, but if it's a malicious "let's delete all partitions" virus, you're screwed.

Binarymix · Apr 7, 2006, 01:35 PM

Viruses can now cause a lot of damage to your mac partition when you're running windows. Any number of viruses can delete files, change byte order, delete whole partitions etc. This will indeed affect OS X.

I can see some wiseass virus writer specifically trgeting dual booting macs by having a virus delete your mac partition when you boot into windows.

I think the best solution is to run windows in a virtual environment, then everything is contained within 1 file, the good and the bad.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Typically, yes, a Windows virus would get stopped dead, but if it's a malicious "let's delete all partitions" virus, you're screwed.

How will the virus even see a Mac formatted partition?

Binarymix · Apr 7, 2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

How will the virus even see a Mac formatted partition?

Because most people will install MacDrive so they can exhange data over the partitions, I would think.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Binarymix

Because most people will install MacDrive so they can exhange data over the partitions, I would think.

And if they don't?

Binarymix · Apr 7, 2006, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

And if they don't?

Then I guess the mac partition would be safe, provided the virus doesnt detroy HD sectors.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Binarymix

Then I guess the mac partition would be safe, provided the virus doesnt detroy HD sectors.

That's what I thought. Note to self, don't install MacDrive.

If there are any files I want to move from one to the other I am going to use my flash drive/zip or iPod.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 03:40 PM

Hell I still wish I could boot into the BE OS.

mduell · Apr 7, 2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

1 The drivers translate Windows ROM calls to Mac ROM calls

WTF? I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it sounds like it should make the Windows version slower, not faster.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

How will the virus even see a Mac formatted partition?

It doesn't need to be able to meaningfully read the HFS partition, all it needs to do is destroy the partition table and/or write random garbage all over the disk.

Dark Helmet · Apr 7, 2006, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

It doesn't need to be able to meaningfully read the HFS partition, all it needs to do is destroy the partition table and/or write random garbage all over the disk.

I understand that, what I am saying is will a windows virus even see a HFS partition?