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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Panther Locks Up - Move Mouse But Nothing Else

Panther Locks Up - Move Mouse But Nothing Else (Page 12)
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willrob
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Oct 3, 2004, 10:47 AM
 
Still Freeze Free

Processor "Nap" was the culprit. I have been freeze free since making it a conscious choice to enable napping. I had been running a start-up script that turned nap on, with both processors active�which is a receipe for disaster. Nap should only be turned on if you have selected single processor. So I turn on single processor when I'm not doing anything intensive, which keeps my box almost 20�F cooler. I turn on dual processors when I'm working with video or DVD, or burning CDs.

This may not be the solution for many of you�but if you installed CHUD and use the nap in the Hardware preference pane, then doing so consciously may cure your freezes.
     
moofman
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Oct 3, 2004, 02:44 PM
 
So what can I use to defrag my hard drive on a single drive system that can only use an external firewire CD drive?
     
moofman
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Oct 3, 2004, 10:24 PM
 
Installed the Security Update for the 7th and haven't had a crash yet... Anyone had problems with the next update?
     
Jerommeke
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Oct 4, 2004, 02:13 AM
 
I have no Airport of Blueetooth, iTunes is not constantly running, and an iPod is not always connected.

Strange thing I noticed is that (though it seems to depend on a VM thingy) freezes always occur with iTunes. Yesterday I had closed iTunes in time, and I already got 7 swap files, 3GB total size, zo my computer was slow like a rat but not freezing. I guess if I had started iTunes and played a tune it would immediately freeze.
iMac G5 2.0 Ghz 20", 2 GB RAM, 400 GB, OS X 10.4.5, iPod with color screen 60 GB
     
moofman
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Oct 4, 2004, 05:23 AM
 
I'm certain it was iTunes causing the problem for me. After experiencing at least two freezes a day (a pain in the ass since my power button only works intermittently right now), I quit using iTunes and relied on my CDs for a while, and I've had a few days of up time 'til I tried that security update. Now everything's fine.
     
bremner770
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Oct 5, 2004, 05:05 AM
 
I seem to be freeze free now. I managed to mangle up my Apache/MySQL/PHP setup so backed up me data and just reinstalled Panther. I thought I'd try zeroing the data when wiping the disk and then installed. I applied all updates except Airport (this is what seemed to cause my problems in the past) and then cloned my working image to an external drive. As an experiment I thought I would then apply the Airport update an see if I could get the machine to freeze (downloading a Linux distribution generally had the desired effect). To my surprise my PowerBook happily downloaded the file without complaint and has been working like a champ for over 24 hours.

The only changes to my system set-up from before are that I zeroed data on the format and that in my office we no longer have an original Airport base station but have upgraded to an Airport Express. My gut reaction is that the later Airport updates (than what are supplied with 10.3) don't play well with original graphite base stations when connected to from certain models of machine.

Obviously this won't solve everybody's problem, but it has done with me.
( Last edited by bremner770; Oct 7, 2004 at 09:50 AM. )
     
OwlBoy
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Oct 6, 2004, 03:32 PM
 
Ahhhh!

I am having the same problem now on my G5!!!

This is ridiculous!

-Owl
     
Krypton
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Oct 9, 2004, 05:32 AM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Ahhhh!

I am having the same problem now on my G5!!!

This is ridiculous!

-Owl
It is ridiculous, people need to send more bug reports to bugreport.apple.com or try and contact someone in management.
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 10, 2004, 08:13 AM
 
Anyone fixed the problem by doing a complete reinstall ? I'm thinking of doing this if it could fix my problem.
     
Busemann
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Oct 10, 2004, 08:15 AM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Anyone fixed the problem by doing a complete reinstall ? I'm thinking of doing this if it could fix my problem.
I think you would have to do an erase and install to get an improvement..
     
bremner770
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Oct 10, 2004, 09:39 AM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Anyone fixed the problem by doing a complete reinstall ? I'm thinking of doing this if it could fix my problem.
See my post above. I did a reinstall but formatted and zeroed the drive first and have had no problems since. This coincided with changing from an old graphite base station to an airport express so I'm not sure what solved my problem.
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 10, 2004, 10:23 AM
 
Originally posted by bremner770:
See my post above. I did a reinstall but formatted and zeroed the drive first and have had no problems since. This coincided with changing from an old graphite base station to an airport express so I'm not sure what solved my problem.
Ok, thanks. The AP base has nothing to do with it since I and a lot of other people with this problem don't have them. I've been running 2 days now since the last reboot for an update if it crashes again I'm going to try the hard way and do a reinstall fromm scratch with a zeroed drive.
     
tuqqer
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Oct 10, 2004, 12:24 PM
 
Whew: took quite a awhile to get through this 500+ thread, started way back on January 28, 2004, by MadBrowser. It's quite an education.

My conclusion, after spending the last day reading all of the posts, is that the only common denominator is RAM.

MY PROBLEM: Hard freezes, about 1 per day, started last week. I can move the mouse but nothing else. Can't force quit apps. Can't Command-Tab between them. Only solution is to hold down power button and quit/restart that way.

MY SETUP: G5 2Ghz, purchased the day they came available. 2.5 megs of Samsung original RAM. OS 10.3.5. I'm a ungrade junkie, so every app on here is latest version.

THE FIXES: Looks like there are three main ones:

1. Do something called unlockupd. Worked for some, but not everyone.

2. Do something called "Turn off Crash Reporter", via the Terminal. Worked for some, but not everyone.

3. Get Apple to replace the original, factory-installed Samsung RAM. From what I can see, this has worked for everyone. So far, no one has seen a return of hard crashes since replacing the RAM (seems Apple installed a batch of bad ram). The best thread on these RAM replacement results is here:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]/354


Hope this saves someone some time.
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Powaqqatsi
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Oct 10, 2004, 12:28 PM
 
Originally posted by tuqqer:
Whew: took quite a awhile to get through this 500+ thread, started way back on January 28, 2004, by MadBrowser. It's quite an education.

My conclusion, after spending the last day reading all of the posts, is that the only common denominator is RAM.

MY PROBLEM: Hard freezes, about 1 per day, started last week. I can move the mouse but nothing else. Can't force quit apps. Can't Command-Tab between them. Only solution is to hold down power button and quit/restart that way.

MY SETUP: G5 2Ghz, purchased the day they came available. 2.5 megs of Samsung original RAM. OS 10.3.5. I'm a ungrade junkie, so every app on here is latest version.

THE FIXES: Looks like there are three main ones:

1. Do something called unlockupd. Worked for some, but not everyone.

2. Do something called "Turn off Crash Reporter", via the Terminal. Worked for some, but not everyone.

3. Get Apple to replace the original, factory-installed Samsung RAM. From what I can see, this has worked for everyone. So far, no one has seen a return of hard crashes since replacing the RAM (seems Apple installed a batch of bad ram). The best thread on these RAM replacement results is here:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]/354


Hope this saves someone some time.
I never had the problem before, I've been using the RAM in this machine for the past 2 years and it's high quality stuff. The hard freezes begun in July for me, never had one before. They just appeared out of the blue. And since some people can fix this problem by doing a fresh install I hardly think it has something to do with RAM but with disk usage/fragmentation + the VM.
     
moofman
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Oct 12, 2004, 05:27 AM
 
Has anyone taken all of their factory RAM out and installed new RAM to see if this works?
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 12, 2004, 05:57 AM
 
Originally posted by moofman:
Has anyone taken all of their factory RAM out and installed new RAM to see if this works?
I never used the factory RAM myself always had 2 512MB sticks in it from the beginning never had any problems with them.
     
pat++
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Oct 12, 2004, 04:41 PM
 
can anyone having access to 10.3.6 confirm that the problem is still there (hopefully not) ?
     
Siggi_arni
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Oct 13, 2004, 07:51 AM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I never had the problem before...
Same situation here. I got a 15"PB early this summer. I also installed a bit more RAM and everything was cool until about a month ago when the lockups began.
Siggi Árni
     
palple
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Oct 13, 2004, 08:49 AM
 
I've been experiencing this same kind of freeze since i upgraded to 10.3 last year; those freezes may usually happen launching an app (for example launching camino) or a document, or with itunes playing in the background, or with safari loading a website, or with a p2p app running... ; anyway, they always happen under heavy disk activity due to swap that suddenly stop (you hear the hard disk stopping working), and then the mouse move, but nothing else; during the freeze the caps lock led on the keyboard works (ie i can switch it on and off) but sometime it stop working and restart working soon after.

I've got no external peripheral attached to my mac, no more RAM than the stock one (256MB), no system 3rd party hacks installed! I checked the hard drive and found no problems, i also repaired permissions and cleaned the caches with no results: those freezes continue to happen (they can happen once a week or twice a day lake today!). I also disabled the 'put the disk to sleep when possible' option in System Preferences like someone suggested and i also disabled the crash log like someone suggested sometime ago on this forum.

Those freezes happened both when i had 10GB of free space on my hard drive and now that i have 2GB of free space; they also happen on my father last generation eMac and on an iMacDV G3 400Mhz in the same fashion as they happen on my Mac.

It is a big problem since it is ruining my experince with os X (and i think it's the same feeling for a lot of people)

I'm pretty sure that apple is well aware of this problem and i'm convinced that it must be a hard problem to fix because of its randomness, anyway i would have hoped they acknowledged it in some way, just to make people know they are working on it.
     
willrob
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Oct 13, 2004, 09:32 AM
 
I've gone another 10 days freeze free after turning off the nap feature in the hardware preference pane. The latest update to CHUD (4.0) no longer includes the nap feature for G4's like mine; so obviously Apple decided it was too problematic even for developers to test with. I can still turn one processor off when not doing heavy activities, and get the lower temperature benifit (quietier fan noise).

This harware preference pane is installed only if you have installed the CHUD tools; and for some users the nap feature is turned on by default. Check your Sysem Preferences to see if you have the Hardware pane at the bottom of the window (I've read that some instalations list it as CPU). If so, turn off nap, or remove the pane from the system prefernece pane folder in your library.
     
palple
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Oct 13, 2004, 10:29 AM
 
Originally posted by willrob:
I've gone another 10 days freeze free after turning off the nap feature in the hardware preference pane. The latest update to CHUD (4.0) no longer includes the nap feature for G4's like mine; so obviously Apple decided it was too problematic even for developers to test with. I can still turn one processor off when not doing heavy activities, and get the lower temperature benifit (quietier fan noise).

This harware preference pane is installed only if you have installed the CHUD tools; and for some users the nap feature is turned on by default. Check your Sysem Preferences to see if you have the Hardware pane at the bottom of the window (I've read that some instalations list it as CPU). If so, turn off nap, or remove the pane from the system prefernece pane folder in your library.
Yes, i had the nap mode turned on by default and now i just disabled it - let's see what will happen. Anyway i noticed those freezes even on older G3 macs and i don't think they have got a nap mode option; anyway I've not installed the processor control panel from chud on them, so i'll try.
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Siggi_arni
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Oct 15, 2004, 05:41 AM
 
Originally posted by willrob:
I've gone another 10 days freeze free after turning off the nap...
My Nap was on. Im gonna turn it off and hope the best
Fingers crossed
Siggi Árni
     
siMac
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Oct 15, 2004, 09:04 AM
 
Originally posted by palple:
i would have hoped they acknowledged it in some way, just to make people know they are working on it.
Heh heh, are you new?
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Powaqqatsi
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Oct 15, 2004, 12:03 PM
 
Could anyone post the hardware pref pane ? I have new dev tools and I don't have the hardware pref pane anymore. I'd like to try the nap thing.
     
Siggi_arni
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Oct 15, 2004, 12:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Could anyone post the hardware pref pane ? I have new dev tools and I don't have the hardware pref pane anymore. I'd like to try the nap thing.
http://siggi.vefsyn.is/Hardware.prefPane.zip

Good luck
Siggi Árni
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 15, 2004, 12:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Siggi_arni:
http://siggi.vefsyn.is/Hardware.prefPane.zip

Good luck
Thanks a lot. But now I have another problem: when I want to open the pref pane System Prefs tell me that it's uncapable of opening the hardware pref pane. Any thoughts on this ?
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 15, 2004, 05:15 PM
 
Nevermind I figured it out. It seems that nap was indeed active so I disabled it. Let's hope it helps.
EDIT: wow, my level 3 cache was disabled ? what the hell??
( Last edited by Powaqqatsi; Oct 15, 2004 at 05:47 PM. )
     
tuqqer
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Oct 16, 2004, 01:55 AM
 
I don't have this nap thing, or this CHUD thing, and I froze three times today.

Everything I'm reading here leads me to believe that this is a RAM problem. Either the original stuff that came with the G5, or the third party sticks.

So far, I haven't lost any important work. I'm hesitant to try the RAM swapping technique, since even the original 512 stick is suspect, according to other sites that are talking about this freezing issue.
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Powaqqatsi
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Oct 16, 2004, 04:00 AM
 
Originally posted by tuqqer:
I don't have this nap thing, or this CHUD thing, and I froze three times today.

Everything I'm reading here leads me to believe that this is a RAM problem. Either the original stuff that came with the G5, or the third party sticks.

So far, I haven't lost any important work. I'm hesitant to try the RAM swapping technique, since even the original 512 stick is suspect, according to other sites that are talking about this freezing issue.
You have to install the CHUD thing to have access to the nap thing

Dowload here .
     
himself
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Oct 19, 2004, 03:02 AM
 
Something interesting. I came across this link, posted in this thread by manofsteal (formerly gorickey). It points to a potential cause of the problem originating from the .GlobalPreferences.plist file. Certain customizations to the Date & Time, and International prefs (which are stored in that invisible file) have been causing similar problems.

The strange thing is, I've had 18 days of uptime on my Powerbook (could have been more if not for the recent update), where on the rare occasion, my Mac would freeze just as described, instead it would snap out of it after a few seconds, sparing me from another restart. Happened a few more times after the update. I've made the changes to my date & time prefs as suggested in the link, and I will now see if this solves anything.
( Last edited by himself; Oct 19, 2004 at 03:25 AM. )
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SMacTech
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Oct 19, 2004, 08:22 AM
 
Originally posted by pat++:
can anyone having access to 10.3.6 confirm that the problem is still there (hopefully not) ?
While I have the latest build of 10.3.6 on all my Macs that I use, none of them ever exhibited the lockup problem. In fact, none of the macs running OS X at work, have this problem.
     
siMac
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Oct 19, 2004, 10:39 AM
 
OK, time for another Shot in the Dark�...

I have recently experienced about two weeks of uptime, starting from around the time I switched off iDisk automatic synchronization. This came to an abrupt end today, as I have experienced two freezes in the last 15 minutes, both while uploading files to my iDisk public folder and playing music in iTunes at the same time (I remain convinced that iTunes has something to do with this, as I have never experienced a freeze when iTunes wasn't playing).

Soooooooo...

This makes me wonder if iDisk synching/access (or an associated protocol/helper app) combined with some kind of iTunes goofiness could be provoking these freezes.

In the spirit of furthering the cause, who here has a .Mac account, and who has experienced freezes on a system using automatic iDisk synching, or whilst uploading to their iDisk?
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Powaqqatsi
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Oct 19, 2004, 12:04 PM
 
I don't have .Mac
     
siMac
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Oct 19, 2004, 12:10 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I don't have .Mac
Swing and a miss.

D'oh.
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Zim
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Oct 19, 2004, 12:44 PM
 
Its not bad RAM, unless you can explain how this suspect RAM worked under 10.2, and not 10.3.

Its not .mac.

Its not iTunes.

Its not Airport.

Not by themselves.

All of these things cause network activity of their own. The most common thread is that some combination of these (or other similar) things manifests the problem.

This points to something more fundamental in the OS/kernel, not any of these apps nor RAM. Nor is it limited to G5 models.

Please return to wild speculation.

Mike
     
Busemann
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Oct 19, 2004, 12:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Zim:
Its not bad RAM, unless you can explain how this suspect RAM worked under 10.2, and not 10.3.

Its not .mac.

Its not iTunes.

Its not Airport.

Not by themselves.

All of these things cause network activity of their own. The most common thread is that some combination of these (or other similar) things manifests the problem.

This points to something more fundamental in the OS/kernel, not any of these apps nor RAM. Nor is it limited to G5 models.

Please return to wild speculation.

Mike
But zeroing the drive seems to be the current solution, no?
     
SMacTech
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Oct 19, 2004, 12:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Zim:
Its not bad RAM, unless you can explain how this suspect RAM worked under 10.2, and not 10.3.

Some RAM that worked in 10.1 stopped working when Jag came out because of revised specs as to what RAM was acceptable to the OS.

There were some changes with 10.3 too, I believe, in the same regard.
     
ambush
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Oct 19, 2004, 01:24 PM
 
brand new pb12 crashing like that....
     
siMac
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Oct 19, 2004, 01:27 PM
 
Originally posted by Zim:
Please return to wild speculation.
In the absence of any kind of fix or progress on the problem then I will indeed be returning to 'wild speculation', as you put it.

If that bothers you, well, tough. Last time I checked forums existed for users to help each other through the sharing of ideas and information.

I'm just calling them as I see 'em - I did take the trouble of pointing out that my suggestion was a shot in the dark.

What are you, in your infinite wisdom, doing to help? Anything constructive?
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Powaqqatsi
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Oct 19, 2004, 01:33 PM
 
Originally posted by SMacTech:
Some RAM that worked in 10.1 stopped working when Jag came out because of revised specs as to what RAM was acceptable to the OS.

There were some changes with 10.3 too, I believe, in the same regard.
It started for me when I was already runnig on 10.3.5 I think. Never had the problem with 10.3.0, 10.3.1, 10.3.2, 10.3.3 and 10.3.4. So I doubt there were any changes.
     
SMacTech
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Oct 19, 2004, 03:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
It started for me when I was already runnig on 10.3.5 I think. Never had the problem with 10.3.0, 10.3.1, 10.3.2, 10.3.3 and 10.3.4. So I doubt there were any changes.
Well, my hard drive was working until october 15, 2004 and suddenly it stopped. I will never go back to October 15, 2004 ever again.

RAM in our Windows 2000 server went bad last month. It had worked fine for three years.

The changes I was referring too were in 10.3, not the subsequent updates.
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 19, 2004, 03:24 PM
 
Originally posted by SMacTech:
Well, my hard drive was working until october 15, 2004 and suddenly it stopped. I will never go back to October 15, 2004 ever again.

RAM in our Windows 2000 server went bad last month. It had worked fine for three years.

The changes I was referring too were in 10.3, not the subsequent updates.
I think it's a bit far fetched too say that all of these people are having bad RAM problems.
     
SMacTech
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Oct 19, 2004, 03:34 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I think it's a bit far fetched too say that all of these people are having bad RAM problems.
Ummm, I never said that anywhere. I was replying to Zim's statement about RAM and how the OS became more stringent with 10.2 and then 10.3.

My other comment was referring to the fact that things do go bad.
     
Powaqqatsi
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Oct 19, 2004, 03:51 PM
 
Originally posted by SMacTech:
Ummm, I never said that anywhere. I was replying to Zim's statement about RAM and how the OS became more stringent with 10.2 and then 10.3.

My other comment was referring to the fact that things do go bad.
Right, please accept my excuses.
     
himself
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Oct 19, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
If I remember correctly, RAM restrictions were tightened due to a firmware update that apple put out, not because of an update to the OS. Plus, apple made it known that update may have adverse effects on 3rd party RAM. Apple has made no announcements about recent updates affecting RAM, at least not that I know of. In either case, problems caused by bad RAM are typically more dramatic and frequent than what folks are experiencing here.

This may be another Shot In The Dark, but what I wonder is, how many people made customizations to the Date & Time preferences, in the International control panel? I ask this because it is connected to problems that some people have been having with accessing the Energy Saver pref pane... and with freezes like those described in this thread. According to this guy, those date and time prefs (along with other settings for things like energy saver) are stored in the .GlobalPreferences.plist, and certain customizations don't play well with the rest of the system for some reason. I'm going to take a closer look at this file to see if there could be anything else in there that could be causing this problem.
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siMac
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Oct 19, 2004, 06:44 PM
 
Yeah I read that too, something about removing the 'M' from AM/PM in Date and Time causes the system to go screwy and freeze similar to what is being described in this thread. I don't think it's the same thing though.
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Toutgood
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Oct 19, 2004, 06:55 PM
 
Here's what needs to be done:

powerbook or ibook freezes. take said computer to Apple headquarters with a Michael Moore style camera crew demanding to see Mr. Jobs, brandishing said laptop. In fact get as many people/computers as possible together, invite the press.

ibooks are better though- the battery life issue will make things dicey.

I have isolated the problem for me: stop using itunes with the usual illustrator/photoshop/dreamweaver or flash setup. Not a real solution but no freezes in the last few weeks. Could be something else though...
     
jamil5454
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Oct 19, 2004, 10:50 PM
 
My guess is the mach kernel... along with the RAM. Sometimes bad/incompatible RAM does get installed.
     
siMac
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Oct 20, 2004, 06:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Toutgood:
ibooks are better though- the battery life issue will make things dicey.
Ouch, talk about poking old wounds! My iBook still only runs on mains power.
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Siggi_arni
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Oct 20, 2004, 06:53 AM
 
This freeze sh!t is really getting on my nerves.
Even after doing the NAP thing and the GlobalPreferences.plst thing, it still freezes

No luck!

And im not going to format/reinstall just to find out that my computer freezes again.
I just hope Apple will release a fix for this a.s.a.p.
Siggi Árni
     
 
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