[Dakarʒ]

Surge protectors killed my father and raped my mother.

[sek929]

That's a Family Guy joke, and we all know Family Guy is for morons with no attention span.

I guess the main bullet point of this statement is you suck.

[Dakarʒ]

Go Team Venture?

[sek929]

Doc it's real serious...the boys saw their own clones. I think they're in some sort of...saw your own clone coma.

[Dakarʒ]

Make way for the Homo Superior!

[Hawkeye_a]

One of the few games i wanted to play through on the PS2 but never did cause the controller was kinda frustrating to me, is coming to the Wiiii

Okami Brushes with Wii this Spring news from 1UP.com

[icruise]

You couldn't play Okami on the PS2 because the controller was frustrating, but you're excited to see it on the Wii? No offense, but I think the chances of the controls being better on the Wii are slim to none. It's a port, after all. What was the problem with the control on the PS2, anyway?

[Hawkeye_a]

Not to start another flame war or anything, but i find the PS2 controller uncomfortable cause it has too many simalilarily shaped buttons, too often i find myself looking around the controller to figure out where a button is or what it's lable is. but thats just me, and yes im aware that over 100m people probaby dont have the same problem.

Also, i think the Wii's controllers are simpler cause the button positions are all unique in their placement and not as cluttered imo. So far i like the Wii controls even more than the GCN controlls which is similar to the PS2's controller but a bit better cause of the different shapes of the buttons...imo.

[Dakarʒ]

That is pretty weird. I'd think it'd be easier to get lost on a keyboard than a PS2 controller.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Not to start another flame war or anything, but i find the PS2 controller uncomfortable cause it has too many simalilarily shaped buttons, too often i find myself looking around the controller to figure out where a button is or what it's lable is. but thats just me, and yes im aware that over 100m people probaby dont have the same problem.

Also, i think the Wii's controllers are simpler cause the button positions are all unique in their placement and not as cluttered imo. So far i like the Wii controls even more than the GCN controlls which is similar to the PS2's controller but a bit better cause of the different shapes of the buttons...imo.

I found the PS2 controller uncomfortable just because it's so tiny, and the L1/R1 and L2/R2 buttons were too close together. I ended up getting a smaller wired controller, and later got small wireless controllers. Much, much better.

I do agree with your comment on the Wii controller. There are few buttons, so it's easy to use and easy for a non-gamer to learn. The Wii's got such an easy learning curve, which has opened it up to a whole new customer base...

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Not to start another flame war or anything, but i find the PS2 controller uncomfortable cause it has too many simalilarily shaped buttons, too often i find myself looking around the controller to figure out where a button is or what it's lable is. but thats just me, and yes im aware that over 100m people probaby dont have the same problem.

That has to be the funniest reason to hate a controller. 100m people can also do text messaging with a cell phone without looking at it or use a TV remote without looking at it. You're telling me you couldn't find the positions of 4 buttons yourself?

Ah, I dunno. I call BS on that excuse.

[jokell82]

Yeah I find that very hard to believe. The GCN controller, while extremely comfortable, was much harder to "find" buttons on IMO.

[sek929]

The PS2 controller was awesome, so many buttons quickly at hand. The 360 remote is a close second.

[jokell82]

I think the 360 controller is better than the PS2/3. Much more comfortable for long gaming sessions IMO.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Yeah I find that very hard to believe. The GCN controller, while extremely comfortable, was much harder to "find" buttons on IMO.

Agreed. The non-symmetry between the buttons would catch me off guard from time to time.

[Hawkeye_a]

Well ive never owned a playstation, just played it at friend's places. It might not be hard for someone who's played and owned PSs for the last 10 years...but if you look at the controller....the shapes of the buttons are too similar like the 4 "action buttons" are all the same shapes, the shoulder buttons (4 of them) have basically the same shape...the analog sticks are the same size and shapeas well.... i found that a little frustrating, cause i hadnt memorized the positions of the square-triangle-circle-x..it's simple enough for racing games where one is accelerate and the other is break, but for a game that uses all buttons and combos i would rather watch someone else play.

The GCN controller felt more comfortable in my hand, and the buttons were of different shapes and sizes whichwas easier to find without having to look at the controller imo....the Wii takes that different shape/size/location of buttons even further so it's a lot easier for me to coordinate on the Wiimote.... thats just speaking about the old-style-functionality... Thats not to say i didnt look down at the controller to confirm i was pressing the right button from time-to-time. i guess i just got accustomed to it.

But im sure i'm probably one of the few who finds a PS controller hard to use since there are so many out there who have put up with it and gotten used to it by now.

I'm sure it boils down to which controlelr you use more of and end us getting used to. i think having different shapes/sizes would be easier to get acustomed to for people picking up the controller for the first time.

[jokell82]

I can understand being confused over which button is which, especially when you haven't used the controller much. However, no other controller is any more intuitive in that regard. If you were holding the GCN controller and I told you to hit the Y button, would you be able to immediately do it if you weren't a frequent user of that controller? Hell no.

But that has nothing to do with the controller being comfortable - that's just your inexperience with it. Comfort only has to do with the shape, weight, button placement, etc.

[sek929]

The L and Rs on the PS2 are completely different sizes. The R1 and L1 are small and the R2 and L2 are much larger.

The only gripe I have about the PS2 controller is it's small overall size. I've never owned a PS or really played them in excess and I still consider the PS2 controller and excellent design.

Gamecube was awful, absolute crap. Those kidney-shaped buttons made no sense and having the A and B buttons completely different sizes is stupid.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Not to start another flame war or anything, but i find the PS2 controller uncomfortable cause it has too many simalilarily shaped buttons, too often i find myself looking around the controller to figure out where a button is or what it's lable is. but thats just me, and yes im aware that over 100m people probaby dont have the same problem.

Also, i think the Wii's controllers are simpler cause the button positions are all unique in their placement and not as cluttered imo. So far i like the Wii controls even more than the GCN controlls which is similar to the PS2's controller but a bit better cause of the different shapes of the buttons...imo.

I dislike the PS2 controller for the same reason. When a game asks you to press the X button, you either have to have memorized the letter that goes with each button, or you have to look at the controller. The 360 is a little better. It uses letters and colors. But the Gamecube controller was the best because it used shape, which is something you can feel.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I dislike the PS2 controller for the same reason. When a game asks you to press the X button, you either have to have memorized the letter that goes with each button, or you have to look at the controller. The 360 is a little better. It uses letters and colors. But the Gamecube controller was the best because it used shape, which is something you can feel.

But again, if I asked you to press Y on the GCN controller the shape wouldn't matter - you'd still have to remember which one is Y.

Although I do think that controller was by far the most comfortable. Fit in my hands perfectly.

[Hawkeye_a]

Ssek929, thats exactly why i liked the GCN contoller, the different izes and shapes and colors meant you didnt have to keep looking at the controller.... and i found their placement just fine. having 2 kidney-shaped buttons was a little confusing to me, having different sized kidney buttons and more varied positions(instead on next to each other) would have been better imo.....

[Eug]

September NPD:

Hardware Sales
PlayStation 2 - 215,000
PlayStation 3 - 119,400
PlayStation Portable - 284,500
Xbox 360 - 527,800
Wii - 501,000
Nintendo DS - 495,800
Game Boy Advance - 75,000

Software Sales
360 HALO 3* MICROSOFT (CORP) - 3,300,000
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA - 282,000
NDS LEGEND OF ZELDA: PHANTOM HOURGLASS NINTENDO OF AMERICA - 224,000
PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 ELECTRONIC ARTS - 205,000
360 SKATE ELECTRONIC ARTS - 175,000
360 MADDEN NFL 08 ELECTRONIC ARTS - 173,000
WII METROID PRIME 3: CORRUPTION NINTENDO OF AMERICA - 167,000
360 BIOSHOCK TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) - 150,000
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A NINTENDO OF AMERICA - 141,000
PS3 HEAVENLY SWORD SONY (CORP) - 139,000

Good month for Microsoft (and Nintendo).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

But again, if I asked you to press Y on the GCN controller the shape wouldn't matter - you'd still have to remember which one is Y.

Although I do think that controller was by far the most comfortable. Fit in my hands perfectly.

But this is why Gamecube games always showed you the shape of the button when it asked you to press a button. It never just asked you to press the y button, it asked you to press the y horizontal kidney shaped button.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I dislike the PS2 controller for the same reason. When a game asks you to press the X button, you either have to have memorized the letter that goes with each button, or you have to look at the controller.

That's not a fault of the buttons so much as the designations. And I'm not ashamed to admit to this day, I still hesitate if I'm verbally told which symbol to hit. And I've been using a PlayStation for almost a decade.

I've never enjoyed saying the symbols aloud, either. monosyllabic buttons are easier to mention quickly than triangle, or circle.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Hardware Sales
PlayStation 2 - 215,000
PlayStation 3 - 119,400
PlayStation Portable - 284,500
Xbox 360 - 527,800
Wii - 501,000
Nintendo DS - 495,800
Game Boy Advance - 75,000

Looks like the "Playstation 2 still owns everybody" days are over.

[Dakarʒ]

Time to break out the champagne you've been saving?

[Aegis]

I've always hated the PS2 controller as well. Mostly for it's shape. Very uncomfortable in my (large) hands. Thankfully the Logitech wireless came along. The geometry buttons didn't cement themselves in my brain as quickly as lettered buttons. But it's no longer a problem.

What really brought havoc on my brain was being used to the SNES controller with it's ABXY buttons in a diamond shape and then having to use the Xbox controller. A/B are switched and X/Y are switched. That drove me crazy for a while. Or how Japanese games on Sony systems use X as cancel and O as confirm.

[Dakarʒ]

Yeah, I never understood why NES and SNES buttons went in backwards order (B-A instead A-B). Nowadays it makes me pause for a moment when I'm playing old games.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Aegis 

Or how Japanese games on Sony systems use X as cancel and O as confirm.

Yes, this is really based on a cultural difference. In Japan, "X" pretty much universally means "batsu" (wrong, no good, cancel, etc) while "O" means "maru" (correct, select, etc). I guess the idea was that in Western countries, people were more accustomed to using an X to "mark the spot" or select things, so they decided to reverse them. Personally, I think they should've just make it consistent. (Of course as a game translator, I have to go in and change things like this when writing manuals or tutorials, so I'm a little biased.)

I never had any trouble figuring out the "shape" buttons on the PS1/2/3 controller at all, although I do occasionally confuse the shoulder buttons and trigger buttons on the Xbox 360 controller.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Ssek929, thats exactly why i liked the GCN contoller, the different izes and shapes and colors meant you didnt have to keep looking at the controller.... and i found their placement just fine. having 2 kidney-shaped buttons was a little confusing to me, having different sized kidney buttons and more varied positions(instead on next to each other) would have been better imo.....

Have you ever been able to memorize a TV remote despite the grid of similar buttons? Call me crazy, but learning which button does what doesn't really take that long.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Have you ever been able to memorize a TV remote despite the grid of similar buttons? Call me crazy, but learning which button does what doesn't really take that long.

I have to agree with you. Any controller new to you is gonna require learning the layout but I don't see that as a several day, or year process. Comfort I can buy, button placement, I don't get it. The PlayStation controller hasn't changed in 10 years, for the reason there would be no need to have a learning curve. If you've used a SNES controller the layout is the same plus two extra shoulder buttons.

I also agree the 360 controller is the best ever made, no contest.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Have you ever been able to memorize a TV remote despite the grid of similar buttons? Call me crazy, but learning which button does what doesn't really take that long.

Well the functionality of my TV remote doesnt change depending on the channel im watching, and i dont need a short responce time when i want to use a TV remote so looking at the remote before I press a button isnt a matter or "loosing or winning".

When one game uses the "X" button as a primary action button, and another game uses the "O" button, you have to remember where they are or look down while playing cause your fingers cant tell the difference cause the shape/size of the buttons are exactly the same, it makes using a controller more difficult than it should be imo... unlike the GCN and Wii now. The PS1/2/3 controller button layout is more akin to a console that came out 3 gaming generations ago...the SNES.

In conclusion it's *probably* going to be easier for first time gamers to remember the button layout of a controller that has different shapes and sizes than one that doesnt imo.

On the comfort issue, not having to have my wrists practicaly tied together in front of my while gaming feels a lot more comfortable...and it also feels good having to use my hands now with the Wii as opposed to primarily using my thumbs on the old controllers. but once again thats my opinion.

Cheers

[goMac]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Have you ever been able to memorize a TV remote despite the grid of similar buttons? Call me crazy, but learning which button does what doesn't really take that long.

As Hawkeye mentioned, it's very easy on a remote to map a button to a function. When I want to turn the volume up on my TV, I know which button does that, and that button never changes.

With the Gamecube, the game gives me directions how how to play the game based on the shape of the button. The shape of the button implies where it is on the controller. Because of this I can quickly pick up new games.

The PS is a little more complicated. When a PS3 game tells me to press the X button, it doesn't imply the location on the controller, and I can't find the button without looking at the controller. To make it even more difficult, all the buttons feel and are shaped exactly the same. There's no color coding, no shape coding, and no position coding. Just four buttons.

If my TV remote's buttons changed functions depending on what show I was watching, you bet I'd get a little peeved at my conforming buttons.

[exca1ibur]

The button layout never changes, though. X is the same place its been for 10 years. X for this game is still gonna be X in the next game. Sure I agree the functionality may be different but you should still know WHERE the button is without having to look at the controller if you have used the system for a while. Like the TV remote once you know where it is, its not going to change.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The button layout never changes, though. X is the same place its been for 10 years. X for this game is still gonna be X in the next game. Sure I agree the functionality may be different but you should still know WHERE the button is without having to look at the controller if you have used the system for a while. Like the TV remote once you know where it is, its not going to change.

But when I play a game, I don't think "X". I think "perfectly round button of a certain size location at a point on the control pad". And that is how the Gamecube approached buttons on the control pad. A new game would tell you to press a button shaped a certain way. When I learn a new Playstation game, my mind always has to figure out which button is the X button again until I've learned the game.

When I play a game system, the only thing I remember about the controls is the size and shape because I spend my time looking at the tv and feeling the controls. Having buttons that simply have symbols on them breaks that, and makes learning a game harder because when building the reflex of hitting a button to do a certain task, I have to look down so I can remember which button is the right button.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

A new game would tell you to press a button shaped a certain way. When I learn a new Playstation game, my mind always has to figure out which button is the X button again until I've learned the game.

Huh? The X button is always the one on the bottom, nearest the player, and is usually given one of the most important functions. Why would it take any thought at all to figure out where it is? I always do so by touch, and in fact it functions kind of like the bumps on the F and J keys on a keyboard, since you can find the other buttons by touch as long as you know where X is. It's also easy to remember that triangle is positioned at the top since it resembles an "up" arrow, and it is often associated with the idea of going up (jumping) or going back (canceling out of menus).

The idea of having differently shaped buttons isn't a bad one, but I don't think that most people who play games with any frequency at all have trouble figuring out which button is which on the Xbox 360 or PS3 controller -- especially if we're just talking about the face buttons.

What really annoyed me were the black and white buttons on the original Xbox controller. They were in an odd location and were hard to identify by touch.

[ajprice]

gomac, I don't get what you're on about either. A certain button will always be the same shape and in the same position - it just has different functions for different games. Once you know where the buttons are, you're done, whatever game you play. I have an X360 so this may not apply to a PS pad, but in a car game for example, right trigger is accelerate, left trigger is brake, left thumbstick is steering, and the same thing goes for most driving games.

If I get a new game, I'm not going to forget where the x button is, I just have to find out what it does in this game. Once you have learned what the buttons do, its fine.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by starman 

Since the Nintendo fanboys won't post it:

Hardware September 17 - 23

PSP - 277,794
DSL - 70,523
Wii - 24,992
PS2 - 11,373
PS3 - 10,732
Xbox360 - 1,687
GBM - 243
GBASP - 106
GC - 68
GBA - 33
DS - 15

Originally Posted by Eug 

September NPD:

Hardware Sales
PlayStation 2 - 215,000
PlayStation 3 - 119,400
PlayStation Portable - 284,500
Xbox 360 - 527,800
Wii - 501,000
Nintendo DS - 495,800
Game Boy Advance - 75,000

Good month for Microsoft (and Nintendo).

So the PSP sold 277,794 in one week and only 6,706 for the rest of the month? Wow, that sucks.

How many of those Xbox 360 sales do you think Halo 3 is responsible for? I personally know 4 people who purchased a 360 strictly for Halo 3 (myself included).

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

So the PSP sold 277,794 in one week and only 6,706 for the rest of the month? Wow, that sucks.

You're comparing Japanese sales on the top with NPD American sales on the bottom. Apples and oranges.

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

How many of those Xbox 360 sales do you think Halo 3 is responsible for? I personally know 4 people who purchased a 360 strictly for Halo 3 (myself included).

I bought one just for Halo 3 also.

[- - e r i k - -]

The PS2 is still outselling the PS3 eh?

[Aegis]

Yeah I bet a nice juicy chunk of those 360 sales were just for Halo 3.

Is anyone else pumped about Guitar Hero III? That's what has me most excited right now.

[goMac]

Woah, I kinda forgot this thread.

Originally Posted by icruise 

Huh? The X button is always the one on the bottom, nearest the player, and is usually given one of the most important functions. Why would it take any thought at all to figure out where it is?

Because correlating a letter to a position doesn't make any sense. It's an artificial relationship, as where the Gamecube controller has a natural relationship based on the shape of a button.

Please don't act like I'm saying that the PS buttons aren't impossible to memorize, but the Gamecube's controls are a lot easier to work with.

Originally Posted by icruise 

I always do so by touch, and in fact it functions kind of like the bumps on the F and J keys on a keyboard, since you can find the other buttons by touch as long as you know where X is. It's also easy to remember that triangle is positioned at the top since it resembles an "up" arrow, and it is often associated with the idea of going up (jumping) or going back (canceling out of menus).

Again, these positions are artificial relationships. There is no natural reason where the triangle button should be in a certain relative location from the X button. On the Gamecube, the buttons are shaped certain ways because they are all shaped around each other in a natural way.

Originally Posted by icruise 

The idea of having differently shaped buttons isn't a bad one, but I don't think that most people who play games with any frequency at all have trouble figuring out which button is which on the Xbox 360 or PS3 controller -- especially if we're just talking about the face buttons.

I have trouble because I map functions of a game in my mind directly to a button. I don't map a function to a letter to a button. So once I learn how to play a game, I don't have any issues. On my XBox, it's not quite as bad because I have colors and letters to map to, so the learned curve is a little less. But nothing really competes with the cube controller.

After I learn a game, the letter of the button that I have to press for a certain function just gets discarded in my mind. It's not important at all. But then I don't remember which letter goes with which button for the next game I learn.

Originally Posted by icruise 

What really annoyed me were the black and white buttons on the original Xbox controller. They were in an odd location and were hard to identify by touch.

I hated the original XBox, and I still don't know where those buttons are supposed to be on the 360 controller when I play older games like Halo 2.

[icruise]

You must have a hell of a time playing games using a computer keyboard then. All the keys look the same!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

You must have a hell of a time playing games using a computer keyboard then. All the keys look the same!

Don't get me started...

Keyboard isn't usually so bad because most FPS use WASD, so I can usually sit down at a new game and not have to learn new keys. But it's always the secondary keys that get me.

[goMac]

Apparently Sony is becoming more and more concerned with developers leaving the PS3 platform:
Source: Sony asking developers to stick with PS3 | PS3 News | GamePro.com

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Because correlating a letter to a position doesn't make any sense. It's an artificial relationship, as where the Gamecube controller has a natural relationship based on the shape of a button.

Uh, hold on there, snappy.

First off, the "X" on the PS controller is not a "letter", it's a shape. X, CIRCLE, SQUARE, TRIANGLE.

As for the Gamecube controller, didn't that have ACTUAL letters? A, B, Z, X, Y?

[Dakarʒ]

I can't even take him seriously at this point.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I can't even take him seriously at this point.

Nobody's taken him seriously since this thread started.

[PaperNotes]

That's classic goMac Next he'll say he started up those big gamer companies back when he was one of the secret Japanese illuminati rulers of the world and still is a majority shareholder and therefore he is right and you are wrong.