[John123]

After reading some recent threads of folks finding great deals on eBay, I went over to take a look at the completed auctions.

It appears several "brand new," non-refurb 15" PowerBooks have been selling for around $1400 or a bit under. Can anyone explain this to me? These are from users with good feedback, so it doesn't look like fraud or anything like that. I can't explain it, but I've not dealt with eBay too much...so I was hoping someone else might be able to shed some light on it.

[uicandrew]

i just bought a 17" powerbook latest revision (hi-res screen) for $1705 shipped off of ebay! 128mb vram, 120gb hard drive, 1g ram.

usually, ebay is for people who don't know better and they will pay more than what it is worth, but for some reason, the newest powerbooks have taken a real beating on resale value.

The powerbook i bought is only 3 months old, and since it is used, i already know that it has NO dead pixels. I intend to sell it when a 17" macbook pro comes out or a 2nd revision of the 15" macbook pro comes out. Brand new, it would've cost me $2800 (after taxes) so there's already been 33% depreciation in 3 months. I figure that the biggest drop has already occured, so I'll probably take another 15% or so hit when i resell it.

there are a lot of scams, though. Never buy a powerbook from a person with zero feedback. at first, i thought i was being careful and trusting. I figured that I started out with zero feedback a while back. I even googled the seller's name and had a phone number for the person. The guy ended up still trying to scam me. Location was listed as NJ, but he wanted payment sent via western union to the UK (united kingdom). western union is always a huge red flag waving around that screams scam

also, make sure they have sold powerbooks or similar products. if they have previously sold tea cozys, and now they sell powerbooks, there's something not right. make sure that they have feedback from previous "big ticket" items.

[shabbasuraj]

ebay=scambay

[Maflynn]

A lot of powerbook listings on ebay are scams, but those that aren't are driven by the market. Not a necessarly an informed market. People tend to get caught up in the auction and drive up the price beyond what it's worth.

Mike

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

A lot of powerbook listings on ebay are scams, but those that aren't are driven by the market. Not a necessarly an informed market. People tend to get caught up in the auction and drive up the price beyond what it's worth.

Mike

i think the original poster (OP) was wondering why the prices are so LOW, especialy for brand new sealed models. It's cheaper than any known retailer, even with after mail in rebates.

There are many auctions for the newest (hi-res) 17 powerbooks that end at around $2000, shipped! so you figure that if you don't pay taxes, that saves another $150. and yet the applestore retails for $2500

[John123]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

i think the original poster (OP) was wondering why the prices are so LOW, especialy for brand new sealed models. It's cheaper than any known retailer, even with after mail in rebates.

There are many auctions for the newest (hi-res) 17 powerbooks that end at around $2000, shipped! so you figure that if you don't pay taxes, that saves another $150. and yet the applestore retails for $2500

Thanks -- that is, exactly, my question. Even a retailer that sells PowerBooks does not, I suspect, generally obtain them from Apple at that low of a price. Several years ago, I used to sell computers, and I know that of all big-ticket electronics products, the margins on them were among the weakest.

[uicandrew]

some theories -

1. they are employees of a company that bought a huge amount of them, so they got a great discount, but now they are selling the excess.
2. apple employees have a big discount (i think once every year) so they are selling it.
3. the scammers (very sophisticated now) have flooded the ebay market, but the savvy ebayers stay away, so there aren't enough bids to drive the price higher, which artificially lowers the "market value" of the powerbook. It helped me get mine for cheap, but it'll hurt me when i sell.
4. they "fell off the back of a truck" :-)

There are many sealed, new powerbooks that have a starting bid of $2200 for the top of the line models, but they aren't getting ANY bids, whereas if it was sold on amazon.com, people would be all over it because even with the best rebates, it is $2300 at amazon.com

[Fusion]

I thought it was because of the MacBook Pro. I mean, who really wants to buy a computer that's 4 to 5 times slower than the new model?

[John123]

Originally Posted by Fusion

I thought it was because of the MacBook Pro. I mean, who really wants to buy a computer that's 4 to 5 times slower than the new model?

Please...don't be naive. Every single benchmark out there with respect to the iMacs suggests that is a gross, gross, gross exaggeration. Not everyone is manipulated so much that they hand on SJ's every word....

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by Fusion

I thought it was because of the MacBook Pro. I mean, who really wants to buy a computer that's 4 to 5 times slower than the new model?

i think the speed improvement is very debatable since various sources, depending on optimization, etc have speed improvement of much less.

who is still buying?

1. people who turn their noses up at Rev A and possibly Rev B are still buying,
2. people who really need 17" screen or really need 12" screen
3. people who need 800 firewire.
4. people who still need virtual pc. Many people have screwed up their Intel imacs trying to get WinXP/Vista to run, and fraudulently returning it to apple for a new one.

(although i think it is morally/ethically/whatever wrong that they are returning it, i do admit that I am benefiting directly from their research/experimenting. because of them, i am holding off on my Mactel purchase)......getting off my soap box.....

5. people who don't know that intel is now inside macs. not everyone is as up-to-date on macs.
6. people who need to run the "pro" apps and can't wait for the universal binary edition to come out because they need it for their livelihood.
7. me..... i'll update my signature soon

that's who's buying

[ghettochild]

Originally Posted by Fusion

I thought it was because of the MacBook Pro. I mean, who really wants to buy a computer that's 4 to 5 times slower than the new model?

do you believe anything apple feeds you?

[Fusion]

whoa whoa whoa. Hold on freaks. Where in the world did I ever mention that the MacBook is actually 4 to 5 times faster than the Powerbook? You've got to be kidding me. A defensive bunch you all are.

My point was, is that Apple has marketed the new model as being 4 to 5 times faster than the current one. While this makes the MacBook look extremely good, it also has the averse affect, IMHO, of dropping the resale value of the current PowerBook lineup.

I don't care what your geekfest benchmarks say, the fact is that the average consumer looking for a used laptop will most likely spend the extra cash to get a new one if they believe that the used one is really 4 to 5 times slower. Plain and simple.

I understand there is still current demand for the PowerBook. I understand the MacBook is not as fast as they say it is. But the original question was why eBay prices currently are so low and I am simply suggesting an answer to that question.

Geez.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by John123

Please...don't be naive. Every single benchmark out there with respect to the iMacs suggests that is a gross, gross, gross exaggeration. Not everyone is manipulated so much that they hand on SJ's every word....

And results with the iMac G5 are relevant to the PowerBook G4 because…?

The PowerBook G4 was simply underpowered. The new MacBook is essentially as powerful as the new iMacs, which are faster than the old iMac G5s, which were a lot better than the PowerBook G4.

[tigas]

Damn! I thought this thread was about the classic Airport card's price. Some day they'll cost more in eBay used than from Apple as a Service Replacement new.

[Daniel Bayer]

I have been using, buying, selling Powerbooks since the Ti-400 in 2000, I have never seen the used market take such a beating. The ratio of sales to ones that need to be re-listed seems to be about 2-1. This is from a survey I do for a few weeks before I sell anyting on eBay and I only bookmark the "real" used market, not the "Sealed" or fakey ones.

It's hell out there. I will most likely get $1,000-$1,500 for my 17 inch 1.33 w/ 2gb of ram, 7,200 rpm 60GB drive. Thank God I kept it in mint condition!

[mduell]

Unless you think someone is manipulating the market, the eBay price is the market value of those laptops.

[Spliffdaddy]

Actually, eBay represents the high-end market price of items. Locally, items tend to be worth 15-20% less than what they'll sell for on eBay.

[John123]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And results with the iMac G5 are relevant to the PowerBook G4 because…?

The PowerBook G4 was simply underpowered. The new MacBook is essentially as powerful as the new iMacs, which are faster than the old iMac G5s, which were a lot better than the PowerBook G4.

No one argued any of these points. However, the speed difference between the old iMac and the current PowerBook is not a factor of 4. I've used both extensively, so I'm pretty qualified to comment on it.

[aneurysm]

of course apple's own benchmarks are inflated, it is a business; but assuming speed amounts to user-end, onscreen performance is a very linear way of thinking. for instance, twice the memory speed, four times the cache, four times the bus, and twice the video memory [connecting at eight times the speed] could very well have as much a factor in the 4x statement just as much as the user experience.

-aneurysm

[John123]

Originally Posted by aneurysm

of course apple's own benchmarks are inflated, it is a business; but assuming speed amounts to user-end, onscreen performance is a very linear way of thinking. for instance, twice the memory speed, four times the cache, four times the bus, and twice the video memory [connecting at eight times the speed] could very well have as much a factor in the 4x statement just as much as the user experience.

-aneurysm

It's not. I've fooled around with the new iMacs. Did it today, in fact. It distinctly "feels" slower on things like Office apps than does my 1.67 PowerBook. Launch is slower, etc.

On native stuff, sure, I'll buy it...but on non-native, it has the lag you'd expect from emulation.