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quiklee · Sep 12, 2006, 01:56 PM

Coming out in Jan 2007 . . . . I think this is what we've all been really waiting for. . . . a flatter looking Mac Mini . . . . connecting directly to your Home Entertainment system . . . . . i wonder what the damn price point is . . . .

this is what i got from engadget

No power brick
802.11
USB2
Ehternet
HDMI connector for all new big-screen flat panel TVs
Component video (RGB)
analog audio RCA jacks
Optical audio
Controled with the familiar white remote
Hooks directly to your screen or to your set-top box as another input, or to your receiver.

nbnz · Sep 12, 2006, 01:57 PM

I think that name will have to change, especially in the UK. ITV - Homepage

giggs11 · Sep 12, 2006, 01:57 PM

They're gonna have a hell of a time selling it under that name in the UK...

Edit: That probably won't be the final name.

"Engadget: It looks like this {a flatter Mini} it's called iTV. That's a codeword. we need to come up with a better name."

Andy8 · Sep 12, 2006, 01:58 PM

Q1 2007
Apple will release a wireless box for the TV.
Box is like 1/2 the size of Mac mini.
USB, ethernet, 802.11 wireless, component video, optical audio, HDMI ports.
Works with Apple Remote.
Interface is like next-generation Front Row software.

Andy8 · Sep 12, 2006, 02:00 PM

I guess this should be in the "Digital Video & Audio" forum eventually.

Andy8 · Sep 12, 2006, 02:02 PM

No power brick
802.11
USB2
Ehternet
HDMI connector for all new big-screen flat panel TVs
Component video (RGB)
analog audio RCA jacks
Optical audio
Controled with the familiar white remote
Hooks directly to your screen or to your set-top box as another input, or to your receiver.

quiklee · Sep 12, 2006, 02:10 PM

well . . it is a Mac Mini lite . . . that's all it really is . . here are my questions

do you need other Macs to own this?

is this suppose to be what we all had hoped in the new Airport Express?

how much customization can you do? i.e. Alias' for Hard Drive so you can hook up multiple drives to this thing . . .

how much do you think it's gonna be? my guess - $199 -*edit - I was wrong . . Jobs milked it for another $100 - $299*

should of at least comboed it with a new airport extreme base station . . . then you got a real killer product here . .

those are my 2.5 cts

Andy8 · Sep 12, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by quiklee

well . . it is a Mac Mini lite . . . that's all it really is . . here are my questions

do you need other Macs to own this?

is this suppose to be what we all had hoped in the new Airport Express?

how much customization can you do? i.e. Alias' for Hard Drive so you can hook up multiple drives to this thing . . .

how much do you think it's gonna be? my guess - $199 -*edit - I was wrong . . Jobs milked it for another $100 - $299*

should of at least comboed it with a new airport extreme base station . . . then you got a real killer product here . .

those are my 2.5 cts

iTV works with iTunes on PC or Mac - available Q1 2007 $299

mdc · Sep 12, 2006, 02:33 PM

I'm really excited about this, it looks exactly what i was going to do with a MacMini, but for half the price.

dale · Sep 12, 2006, 02:37 PM

this sounds like exactly what I have been waiting for. Assuming the front row interface is fully functioning.

hardware bridge between TV and my Mac, to allow music and video to be shown on the big screen, and mucic output to speakers in the lounge, whilst showing what is playing on TV. Perfect.

Aslo, I have made no secret of the fact that I would like a little device to sit under the TV so that I can show holiday photo's to friends and family when they come round to visit. Burning images to DVD is alittle clunky and not really an interactive experience.

How much is Airport Express $99 ? or $129 - does this have the functionality of Airport express built in? An extra $180 fro frontrow interface, video and iPhoto integration is pretty good value.

I just hope this thing works with PC's as well (as said in a previous post) to allow apple to really get a foothold in the lounge.

.... and yes, I know i can probably acheive all this today, but not for $299 and be as slick and integrated. I know what I will be spending Christmas present money on this year.

Steve Bosell · Sep 12, 2006, 02:48 PM

No DVD player though? That is kinda lame.

quiklee · Sep 12, 2006, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by dale

this sounds like exactly what I have been waiting for. Assuming the front row interface is fully functioning.

hardware bridge between TV and my Mac, to allow music and video to be shown on the big screen, and mucic output to speakers in the lounge, whilst showing what is playing on TV. Perfect.

Aslo, I have made no secret of the fact that I would like a little device to sit under the TV so that I can show holiday photo's to friends and family when they come round to visit. Burning images to DVD is alittle clunky and not really an interactive experience.

How much is Airport Express $99 ? or $129 - does this have the functionality of Airport express built in? An extra $180 fro frontrow interface, video and iPhoto integration is pretty good value.

I just hope this thing works with PC's as well (as said in a previous post) to allow apple to really get a foothold in the lounge.

.... and yes, I know i can probably acheive all this today, but not for $299 and be as slick and integrated. I know what I will be spending Christmas present money on this year.

You might want to consider other options

your idea - $299 + $129 = $428

other option - Mac Mini $599

I know it's a $171 dollar difference . . . but I think having the extra computer on hand that has an extra hard drive is totally worth it

Steve Bosell · Sep 12, 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by dale

.... and yes, I know i can probably acheive all this today, but not for $299 and be as slick and integrated. I know what I will be spending Christmas present money on this year.

You can do all this and more for less $ with the xbox media center.

ChrisB · Sep 12, 2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell

No DVD player though? That is kinda lame.

You have to remember that this is a device that bridges to your TV. Idealy, I would hope that they would revise it to include a hardware DVD drive. For the $299 price point they could easily do it. It's already going to have a built in scaler so you can use HDMI to hook up to a high definition television.

Though it would take longer, you could just rip the DVD to an mp4 or divx file, and play it back that way, and then have it in your digital library in iTunes.

What I am more curious about is two things:

1) What is the wireless bandwidth (how much data can we push)

2) Will iTunes restrict you to certain video formats, or will it pass through any QuickTime/Divix file in any codec. Idealy it should. In reality, who knows.

Thain Esh Kelch · Sep 12, 2006, 03:25 PM

1. Can i record from TV directly to the Mac?
2. Does it funktion as an Airport Express?

Both are dealbreakers for me..

Nice to see that it probably has 802.11n, since they dont mention 802.11g specifically!

And there's no need for a DVD drive, you can just play from your mac.. (Although it would have been nice seperately, but you can probably get that from a third party company pretty soon)

ph0ust · Sep 12, 2006, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by dale

.... and yes, I know i can probably acheive all this today, but not for $299 and be as slick and integrated. I know what I will be spending Christmas present money on this year.

actually you can, the eyehome from el gato pretty much does all this, albeit not with a very good interface. it costs $199.

dale · Sep 12, 2006, 03:57 PM

Thanks for feedback, guys. Interface is important to me - I would want it to be very slick

the price I specified earlier $299 - I had assumed that you would not need to buy an airport express to connect this, but if a high speed airport express (802.11n) comes out, I will buy one too.

Buying a Mac mini you will still need a wireless router to connect to my iMac and broadband, right?

Anyone have any pictures of this thing?

nbnz · Sep 12, 2006, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by dale

Thanks for feedback, guys. Interface is important to me - I would want it to be very slick

the price I specified earlier $299 - I had assumed that you would not need to buy an airport express to connect this, but if a high speed airport express (802.11n) comes out, I will buy one too.

Buying a Mac mini you will still need a wireless router to connect to my iMac and broadband, right?

Anyone have any pictures of this thing?

Photos of the iTV at Hands-on with the Apple iTV prototype - Engadget

chipchen · Sep 13, 2006, 12:34 AM

Where's my DVR capability? With the Tivo Series3 units at $700 bucks... I'd rather have an Apple DVR.

Goldfinger · Sep 13, 2006, 04:55 AM

It better have SCART+HDMI on the European models instead of Component+HDMI.

red rocket · Sep 13, 2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

It better have SCART+HDMI on the European models instead of Component+HDMI

It better not. SCART's the worst connector on the planet.

Goldfinger · Sep 13, 2006, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by red rocket

It better not. SCART's the worst connector on the planet.

So what. 100% of the TV sets in Europe have it opposed to just a small number of TV sets that have component. Add to that the fact that HD is waaaaaay behind in Europe and that 95% of the population doesn't have a TV with HDMI or component, let alone a HDTV set. SCART is absolutely a must for the European market.

nbnz · Sep 13, 2006, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

So what. 100% of the TV sets in Europe have it opposed to just a small number of TV sets that have component. Add to that the fact that HD is waaaaaay behind in Europe and that 95% of the population doesn't have a TV with HDMI or component, let alone a HDTV set. SCART is absolutely a must for the European market.

It will have to have scart, or a scart adaptor, for Europe.
Of course it's really a moot point until they start selling any content over here.

trevorM · Sep 13, 2006, 06:43 AM

I wonder does this mean on future cinema displays we might see HDMI as an input??

kman42 · Sep 13, 2006, 10:06 AM

It's all pointless until they start renting movies. Few people buy a few titles of DVDs. Most people rent. I will never pay 9.95-14.95 to buy a movie, but I would gladly pay 3.99 to rent one twice a week. I don't think I'm unusual in this regard. I know there are some die-hard videophiles out there, but most people aren't. I'm surprised Apple doesn't recognize the difference between music and movies in this regard. It seems pretty obvious.

kman

kman42 · Sep 13, 2006, 10:31 AM

I for one can't wait to abandon my cable TV overlords for my iTunes Store TV overlords. Let's see: Lost season ticket, Sopranos, Entourage, Lucky Louie, Curb Your Enthusiasm and that's about all the television worth watching. Now I can stream it to my TV?! Bye bye cable. Hmmm...not sure if I can get PBS--maybe I'll still need basic cable. Still cheaper than the extended cable from the monopolists.

kman42 · Sep 13, 2006, 10:32 AM

Sorry for the triple post, but I just realized that my last two posts seemed mutually exclusive. I can now see the value in the iTV for streaming TV shows, but I still think movie rentals is a must for theatrical releases.

Big Mac · Sep 13, 2006, 10:33 AM

I don't rent. I hate not owning something that I'm paying for.

Person Man · Sep 13, 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by chipchen

I'd rather have an Apple DVR.

That will probably never happen. Might anger the entertainment industry.

SciFrog · Sep 13, 2006, 01:11 PM

Unless they have HD content, it is useless.

ChrisB · Sep 13, 2006, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by SciFrog

Unless they have HD content, it is useless.

Again, if we aren't restricted to codecs in iTunes when this product is released, and you have something like an EyeTv, you can record your own HD content over the air or on cable and DVR it that way.

Let the speculation continue.

chabig · Sep 13, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by chipchen

Where's my DVR capability? With the Tivo Series3 units at $700 bucks... I'd rather have an Apple DVR.

You already have DVR functionality in your Mac. The iTV is better thought of as an Airport Express for video.

Chris

ChrisB · Sep 13, 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

You already have DVR functionality in your Mac. The iTV is better thought of as an Airport Express for video.

Chris

We do? So where do I hookup my cable for recording television programs? What software do I use? I'm sorry but there is no built-in DVR functionality in current Macs.

chabig · Sep 13, 2006, 02:52 PM

Your Mac doesn't have the capability built-in. I shouldn't have implied that. Check out http://www.elgato.com/

kman42 · Sep 17, 2006, 01:42 PM

Any guesses as to the OS on the iTV? Is it running an embedded version of OSX? Or something much less powerful? Given the price of a mini, I'm guessing if they stripped out the HD and optical drive and added in the audio/video components they could get the price down to 299. Especially if they used a Core solo and skimped on the memory (which they should be able to do).

An embedded version of OSX would lead to all sorts of possibilities for third-parties

kman

kman42 · Sep 17, 2006, 01:43 PM

P.s. I'm typing this on my new 24" iMac

P · Sep 18, 2006, 05:24 AM

I'd love for the iTV to have a DVD player and some upconverting hardware. That would clinch the sale for me, but maybe I should just shell out for a Mac mini+El Gato already.

There are converter cables for component-to-SCART and S-video-to-SCART. Problem about SCART is that there are three versions: The old version (called ECVS, I think), The S-video one and the RGB one. S-video (plus some sort of sound in) becomes the S-video one. Component video at 576i (plus audio) becomes the RGB one. Problem is that there is no way to generate the plain old ECVS version this way, but maybe you could hack it so the component video output generates the picture part of the ECVS signal with a setting. Do that and sell some smart cables as an option and you have solved the problem with the European market.

Parky · Sep 18, 2006, 05:29 AM

If the iTV only has 802.11n when it comes out - who will buy it?
None of use with existing machines have 802.11n so we won't be able to stream video.
Won't that seriously limit sales?

Ian

Simon · Sep 18, 2006, 07:36 AM

MP and MBP users will probably be able to add 802.11n capabilities with third-party cards. PC users will probably just add a PCI card. For everybody else, I'm wondering if there will be some kind USB dongle solution. I've seen 802.11g over USB - although I have no idea how good that works.

chipchen · Sep 18, 2006, 08:12 AM

Just like 802.11g is backwards compatible with 802.11b... 802.11n is designed to be backwards compatible with 802.11g/b. And, when other products start getting 802.11n, they will be able to take advantage of the faster transfer speeds...

P · Sep 18, 2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

I've seen 802.11g over USB - although I have no idea how good that works.

Just fine. It even works on USB 1.1, although limited to 12 Mbps effective data rate. Only downside is that, at least with the driver I'm using, the interface is in a separate app and not in System Preferences.

Seem to remember that HD streams with H.264 encoding are about 20 Mbps though, so on an empty net, 802.11g MIGHT work.

Simon · Sep 18, 2006, 10:37 AM

I have a Mac mini hooked up to my movie projector. I once tried streaming h.264 decoded video to it from my MBP.

Although the MBP was right next to the mini and the AP base station and I had full signal strength on both Macs, I could not stream the video without some stuttering and dropped frames. And the video I used was originally in PAL format so less than the 640x480 Apple is using. Judging from this experience, I doubt 802.11g will work. I think they really require something faster for iTV to work well.

plastiqueusa · Sep 18, 2006, 11:10 AM

Simon, your problem may have had more to do with your router or its settings; some brands don't seem to stream video very well. I tested a few 802.11n routers, and most of those provided regularly stuttering video (every few seconds), regardless of the resolution. My best luck was with Belkin, which has some extra wireless settings to tweak and generally doesn't have the stuttering problem.

I can reliably stream 540p video with 5.1 AC3 sound over my wireless network currently, using a Mac Mini and Pre-N router--I think that Apple may release a new base station near the same time as the iTV with better capability (802.11n?) or a proprietary mode for wireless multimedia streaming to Apple devices and Macs.

P · Sep 18, 2006, 01:31 PM

PAL is 720*576@25. Not sure what framerate Apple is using though, probably 30 fps to match with NTSC, in which case the bitrate it is slightly higher than the PAL transmission you used. I agree with plastiqueusa though - QoS in the router can help a lot for video streaming.

quiklee · Sep 18, 2006, 01:42 PM

Looks like Apple and Google might be looking to partner up before the iTV is released! - Link - Daytime Deals � Apple + Google + iTV = A Damn Good Looking Device

Spliff · Sep 18, 2006, 09:06 PM

Will it allow me to play DivX/XviD files on the TV via my Mac? If not, then it ain't no use to me.

Eriamjh · Sep 18, 2006, 09:42 PM

Notice it has no video inputs.

chabig · Sep 18, 2006, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Spliff

Will it allow me to play DivX/XviD files on the TV via my Mac? If not, then it ain't no use to me.

If they play on your Mac, I expect they will play on this device too. It's streamed, after all. I guess it depends upon where the decoding takes place.

Chris

quiklee · Sep 19, 2006, 02:33 AM

The streaming is going to be the real issue . . . no matter what steve does, he has to increase the bandwidth to shove that much detail onto our televisions . . . especially for the ones who have HDTVs at High Resolutions . . .

joel_v · Sep 19, 2006, 07:13 AM

The new iTV is not really for me. it doesnt have a tv tuner in it. it doesnt have a hard drive.
So what is the point of it then. To stream movies that you bought off the iTunes store?

Why not just buy a mac mini, and a eyetv. that way you can record TV straight to the hard drive, and you can also just grab those videos/movies of your other computer.

wat i would like is a mac mini with an eyetv built-in.