[aristotles]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

This is false, biblically-speaking. The Bible says over and over that there will be signs. Of course, like a typical Christian, you believe whatever you want and call it Christianity.
When you preach stupid things, people will consider you stupid. I hope you are "spiritually prepared" for that.

Last time I checked, signs let you know that something is "coming" not "when" it will happen. It only gives you and indication that when you see those "signs" that it will probably happen within your lifetime. Nobody knows the day or hour but the father. Nowhere in the bible are dates or timetables given for the start of the end.

See:
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

It seems to me that you are believing whatever you want. If you want to talk about Christianity, use the bible rather than your own opinions and/or prejudices. Thanks.

[imitchellg5]

The "signs" that the Bible speaks of have been happening since before Jesus even came.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The "signs" that the Bible speaks of have been happening since before Jesus even came and had children with Mary Magdalen.

fixed

[Dork.]

besson3c, are you still here?
(If you don't reply, I'll assume you left me your tuba. I'll be by next week to pick it up. Do you still keep the key under the fake poop on your doorstep?)

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The "signs" that the Bible speaks of have been happening since before Jesus even came.

What is your point exactly? So you are saying because there were wars and earthquakes before that no prophesy could ever involve them again as signs? Really? You have some funny idea of "logic" there pal.

@brassplayersrock²: Welcome to the ignore list. Grow up.

[Lateralus]

I think he's saying that with the timeline on biblical prophecy spread as thin/long as it is, anticipating with any level of certainty that you'll be raptured before your life ends naturally is stupid in every describable way, regardless of your faith or lack thereof.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I think he's saying that with the timeline on biblical prophecy spread as thin/long as it is, anticipating with any level of certainty that you'll be raptured before your life ends naturally is stupid in every describable way, regardless of your faith or lack thereof.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I presume you deleted my post?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What is your point exactly? So you are saying because there were wars and earthquakes before that no prophesy could ever involve them again as signs? Really? You have some funny idea of "logic" there pal.

@brassplayersrock²: Welcome to the ignore list. Grow up.

What did brassplayersrock do to offend you?

Are you more Team Jesus or Team God?

[aristotles]

@Lateralus and imitchellg5: Well there were specific signs that had to happen including the destruction of the temple and the temple would have to be rebuilt (has not happened yet) and the nation of Israel would have to exist. The first one had occurred by 70 AD but then the Jewish diaspora happened soon after so we had to wait for 1948 for the nation of Israel to come back into existence again. The rebuilding of the temple has a major road block and that would be the Dome of the Rock.

I'd say that those are pretty specific and it seems that this radio preacher seemed to ignore all of the signs required and instead relied on hokey arbitrary numerology for his "proof".

@besson3c: I would have thought it was obvious, he seems to believe in Mr. Brown's fiction and the way he expressed it in his "fixed it" message was a bit distasteful.

God and Jesus are one.

[Shaddim]

I left and came back, Heaven doesn't have a smoking section.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

fixed

Oh god... not the Merovingian conspiracy shit again.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

@Lateralus and imitchellg5: Well there were specific signs that had to happen including the destruction of the temple and the temple would have to be rebuilt (has not happened yet) and the nation of Israel would have to exist. The first one had occurred by 70 AD but then the Jewish diaspora happened soon after so we had to wait for 1948 for the nation of Israel to come back into existence again. The rebuilding of the temple has a major road block and that would be the Dome of the Rock.

The nation of Israel has existed since Abraham. The state of Israel has existed since 1948.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

@besson3c: I would have thought it was obvious, he seems to believe in Mr. Brown's fiction and the way he expressed it in his "fixed it" message was a bit distasteful.

God and Jesus are one.

Lots of opinions are distasteful, I was just surprised at how strongly you reacted to him...

I don't understand how God and Jesus can really be one, when Jesus is supposed to be God's son? He's a different dude...

[Shaddim]

I found Doofy's cat, rockin' in the Rapture.

Funny Cats: Rock on Kitty

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't understand how God and Jesus can really be one, when Jesus is supposed to be God's son? He's a different dude...

Ask a pandit.

[turtle777]

Vikram knows ?

-t

[Dork.]

Darnit, I was gonna sell that tuba on eBay for a wad of cash.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Vikram knows ?

-t

The actor or the guy from Citicorp?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The actor or the guy from Citicorp?

Now you got me confused. I thought the guy from Citi *was* an actor

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Darnit, I was gonna sell that tuba on eBay for a wad of cash.

My tuba is not for sale, but I have some stool samples I can sell you... I'm also willing to throw in some pubes.

I also have some great candy canes that are for sale!

[Phileas]

Post rapture meal: roasted bone marrow, elk tartare, fried veal brain with capers. Washed down with stout and Jameson's. Am I in heaven?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Now you got me confused. I thought the guy from Citi *was* an actor

-t

Vikram Pandit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_(actor)

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My tuba is not for sale, but I have some stool samples I can sell you... I'm also willing to throw in some pubes.

Bullshit, everyone knows you haven't grown any yet. Of course, I guess they could be from someone else...

[turtle777]

I jest, I jest.

Although, since all those bankers are clowns, I can see why I got confused

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

IT HAS STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all caps

Volcano erupts beneath glacier in Iceland - CNN.com

[reader50]

Guess none of us qualified. Though there are still 3 hours and change here in CA.

If you can't find a good plumber from tomorrow on, you'll know which group got promoted.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

IT HAS STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all caps

Volcano erupts beneath glacier in Iceland - CNN.com

They need to learn how to name things properly.

It's named Viepoerkngpomsojmedfsijiki or some crap like that. Damned nutty Icelanders.

[Phileas]

I can't help but feel a little sorry for these guys. Their world must have just collapsed. Years and years of preparation and prayer and preaching and then - nothing. That's gotta hurt.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I can't help but feel a little sorry for these guys. Their world must have just collapsed. Years and years of preparation and prayer and preaching and then - nothing. That's gotta hurt.

Well, maybe the followers, but you know the leaders made some great bank.

[brassplayersrock²]

Well, it's only themselves that they have to be mad at. They're the ones that left jobs, broke off relationships ect, and some even traveled cross country to promote this stuff.

edit:
heh: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-bay-area.html

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I presume you deleted my post?

Moo?

[Athens]

Can this thread be moved to the Political lounge now, I want to partake in bashing religion. Please and Thank you.

[brassplayersrock²]

edit: took down the link due to multiple requests.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The nation of Israel has existed since Abraham. The state of Israel has existed since 1948.

Thank you for pointing that fact out, imitchell, but in fairness to aristotles, based on the context of how he used the terms "nation of Israel" coming back into existence in 1948, he meant the sovereign nation (nation-state) of Israel, as opposed to the religious nation of Israel. I too find it important to use the terms in the proper way as you did, mitchell. The way those terms are used in a loose political context is sometimes less precise than they could be and can cause confusion when there is a well defined usage of the same terms in a religious context (as well as a strict political science context). To avoid this kind of confusion, when I write about Israel the sovereign country I usually use the terms "the state of Israel," whereas in writing about the religious-national Israel I try to stick with using transliterated Hebrew terms like Am Yisrael (although that literally means "People of Israel" it's synonymous with Nation).

As for Camping, I wonder how he and his most devoted followers will interpret this epic failure. He said that they have no Plan B after this failure. The guy is clearly senile to make such a prediction after the long history of disappointments in settings dates that did not materialize as the last of the years of this existence and the beginning of whatever scenario each person or group has expected.

I'm annoyed as a religious person as well over the damage that this moron has caused to the rest of the religious world (and especially to those of the Abrahamic faiths who strongly believe that there will be a definitive end of the world as it is currently and some form of a world to come after that). Many Christians warned Camping that he was making a big mistake and that the Christian scriptures themselves teach against trying to come up with dates from the end times. I should have tried to find a way to bet against this prediction because even though I too strongly believe we're very likely at or near Acharit HaYamim (Hebrew transliteration of the "last of the years" of this world), if there were one day we could all be 100% assured that the process would not become manifest, it would have been today.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Video of Doofy on vacation in California

OK this deserves a ban ....... Its just wrong and nasty.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I'm annoyed as a religious person as well over the damage that this moron has caused to the rest of the religious world (and especially to those of the Abrahamic faiths who strongly believe that there will be a definitive end of the world as it is currently and some form of a world to come after that). Many Christians warned Camping that he was making a big mistake and that the Christian scriptures themselves teach against trying to come up with dates from the end times.

The end of time is astrological and really means the end of the age we are in and the start of the next age. Its not literal as in the end of life or the world. Its the transition of the ages.

[Big Mac]

You're right to the extent of it depending on the terminology you're using. "End of an age" is an astronomical factor. But I'm not talking about the end of the astrological age or the sun going supernova in the distant future or anything like that. I'm talking about religious factors. And for the record, only some and not all religious denominations that have eschatological teachings believe that the end times involve hell on earth and ending most or all life on the planet.

[brassplayersrock²]

athens, if you could delete the link in your reply to me, that'd be sweet, thanks

yes, it did cross a line that I shouldn't have crossed. sorry to those that watched it. time and place for that video. here and now isn't one of the times nor places.

[Lateralus]

I thought it was rather fitting.

[Doofy]

I think someone has me confused with their girlfriend.

[Big Mac]

I was listening to Coast to Coast briefly a few hours ago, and Ian had a female caller who is very distressed over the prediction being false. She said that she verified everything Camping said in the Bible and was absolutely confident he was right - she can't figure out how he turned out to be wrong. She said she's not contemplating suicide but that many other followers of his likely are. Sad.

Meanwhile, I can't get to familyradio.com so maybe the rapture applied narrowly to their web server.

[Phileas]

That's what I was thinking. It's easy to laugh about these people, but there's got to be feelings of despair out there.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

You know, sometimes I wish I hadn't banned Kevin - it'd be fun watching him go nuclear in this thread.

This is classy.

Not to marginalize your moderation of course; it's a much better, more reasonable and rational place here now that Kevin is gone.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What is your point exactly? So you are saying because there were wars and earthquakes before that no prophesy could ever involve them again as signs? Really? You have some funny idea of "logic" there pal.

@brassplayersrock²: Welcome to the ignore list. Grow up.

"Signs" aren't a very useful indicator of the coming of an event if those "signs" are always present across millennia. It's like saying "Watch for clouds in the sky. This will be a sign that the Rapture is coming soon. Prepare!"

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

You know, sometimes I wish I hadn't banned Kevin - it'd be fun watching him go nuclear in this thread.

Kevin would have gone nuclear over this thread? Over what exactly? You think he would have been expecting to be raptured yesterday?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I left and came back, Heaven doesn't have a smoking section.

Did they change it? It used to be all good as long as you were more than 15 feet from the Gate.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Meanwhile, I can't get to familyradio.com so maybe the rapture applied narrowly to their web server.

It took a bit, but I got on last night, and this morning. They still have the May 21st page up.

[besson3c]

Doofy, I would like to apologize to you. I just thought that if I was to go out I'd go out with a bang, and when I thought of banging I thought of you. We're cool, right?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

I see a lot of immaturity being displayed in this thread and denial. The truth is that those of you scoffing at the rapture would be literally shitting your pants and looking for the nearest copy of a bible if you saw that hundreds of millions of people had disappeared from the face of the earth at once. You would be instant converts ready to die for your new found faith.

The bible is very clear that only god the father knows the day and hour so this guy making predictions with "numerology" should be ignored. Christians are supposed to be prepared for it to happen at any moment without any warning. That does not mean that people should stop living but it just means that they should be spiritually prepared (saved) through acceptance of Christ as their personal saviour.

The "Pre-tribulation Rapture" concept is only ≈200 years old.

The Rapture

Premillennialists often give much attention to the doctrine of the rapture. According to this doctrine, when Christ returns, all of the elect who have died will be raised and transformed into a glorious state, along with the living elect, and then be caught up to be with Christ. The key text referring to the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, which states, "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."

Premillennialists hold, as do virtually all Christians (except certain postmillennialists), that the Second Coming will be preceded by a time of great trouble and persecution of God’s people (2 Thess. 2:1–4). This period is often called the tribulation. Until the nineteenth century, all Christians agreed that the rapture—though it was not called that at the time—would occur immediately before the Second Coming, at the close of the period of persecution. This position is today called the "post-tribulational" view because it says the rapture will come after the tribulation.

But in the 1800s, some began to claim that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the "pre-tribulational" view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.

Eventually, a third position developed, known as the "mid-tribulational" view, which claims that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. Finally, a fourth view developed that claims that there will not be a single rapture where all believers are gathered to Christ, but that there will be a series of mini-raptures that occur at different times with respect to the tribulation.

This confusion has caused the movement to split into bitterly opposed camps.

The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Did they change it? It used to be all good as long as you were more than 15 feet from the Gate.

Peter's gotten annoying. He kept asking to see my ticket stub before he'd let me back in, and he frisked me for outside food and drinks.