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Norway Terrorist Attacks (Page 2)
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Posting Junkie
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It clearly gets in the way of progress when it tries to force schools to offer nonsense under the guise of science. Or when it sticks its nose into scientific research it doesn't like.
And why is it so difficult for you to admit that Christianity has been guilty of some terrible crimes. You don't explicitly say it, but your posts in this thread very much take a tone of "Christians can do no wrong or if they do its not because they are christians." No-one is accusing you personally of being on the verge of picking up a gun and going on a killing spree.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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My sig is 1 pixel too big.
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Originally Posted by Chongo
One cannot be a Freemason and a Christian.
Bollocks
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Originally Posted by ironknee
so george washington wasn't a christian ?
No, he wasn't and neither was Ben Franklin. They were Deists.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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45/47
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45/47
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
You never fail to satisfy.
You don't.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
No, he wasn't and neither was Ben Franklin. They were Deists.
that's what the tea patters keep forgetting...our founding fathers where products of the enlightened age
rejecting the superstitions of christianity
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not all christians are terrorists
but the oslo terrorist is a christian
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Originally Posted by ironknee
not all christians are terrorists
but the oslo terrorist is a christian
And you are a Mormon?
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Originally Posted by ironknee
that's what the tea patters keep forgetting...our founding fathers where products of the enlightened age
rejecting the superstitions of christianity
Christianity is fine, it's the shit added later that kills. Be a good Christian, just get rid of the dogma.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Originally Posted by besson3c
And you are a Mormon?
say what?
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by ironknee
say what?
I'm with you on that.
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Originally Posted by Chongo
No, I've got it at false flag event too. And I don't take any notice of the infowars idiots. The whole lot just doesn't add up. It smells wrong, if you know what I'm saying.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
Christianity is fine, it's the shit added later that kills. Be a good Christian, just get rid of the dogma.
Amen.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Originally Posted by ironknee
say what?
Just an educated guess.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Just an educated guess.
atheist and proud
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When you have an extreme right-winger who is seeking to start an "anti-Islamic revolution in Europe" ... who rants about founding an militant group called the Knights Templar in order to resist "Islamic colonization of Europe" ... who attacks government offices occupied by the ruling Labour party and slaughters kids at a summer camp sponsored by said party because he deems they have committed "treason" against their European heritage for promoting multiculturalism .... I think its going to be a stretch to argue that this guy wasn't at least partly motivated by his religious orientation. Now one can quibble about whether this guy represents "real Christianity" or not. That's cool. As long as such distinctions and nuances are extended across the board. Otherwise, there's that old "double-standard" thing to contend with.
OAW
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I dunno I think it easily can be racial motivated as much as religious in this case.
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Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
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ebuddy's favorite talk show host has a few thoughts regarding the massacre in Norway. Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth"
He also says he predicted this because "Europe is overrun with radical Islam" and "they are squeezing the neck of Europe" and "the shooter wants big-government."
Why would a sane person want to listen to this crap?
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
ebuddy's favorite talk show host has a few thoughts regarding the massacre in Norway. Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth"
He also says he predicted this because "Europe is overrun with radical Islam" and "they are squeezing the neck of Europe" and "the shooter wants big-government."
Why would a sane person want to listen to this crap?
Careful, someone's sensibilities may be hurt and the ignore list will grow.
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
ebuddy's favorite talk show host has a few thoughts regarding the massacre in Norway. Beck: Youth Camp Attacked In Norway "Sounds A Little Like The Hitler Youth"
He also says he predicted this because "Europe is overrun with radical Islam" and "they are squeezing the neck of Europe" and "the shooter wants big-government."
Why would a sane person want to listen to this crap?
he blows up a government office because he wants big government...makes beck sense
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Regarding the peculiar attitude towards Christianity the shooter has (he says he is a "cultural Christian," not someone who has "a personal relationship with Jesus"), I am struck by how close his ideas are to Leo Strauss, the godfather of Neoconservatives.
Like Strauss, he regards religion as a useful glue for pragmatic reasons, something that the ruling elites should use to control society.
In other words, the killer isn't a true-believing Tea Party member, he's a neoconservative wanna-be puppet-master who encourages and manipulates the Tea Party types.
Maybe he discovered he wasn't suited for behind-the-scenes work and chose a more direct outlet.
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Originally Posted by Athens
I dunno I think it easily can be racial motivated as much as religious in this case.
Indeed. Which is why I said "at least partly motivated by his religious orientation". The thing with extremists like this is that the various "motivations" get all blended together. The racial, the religious, the political all become a reflection of each other. Here we have a white, Christian, conservative whose very identify is rooted in an amalgamation of these three characteristics along with an extreme, militant, xenophobic worldview. Not unlike the KKK or Neo-Nazi groups or Christian Identity (e.g. Timothy McVeigh) militias in the US.
OAW
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So, what do the following terrorists have in common?
Anders Behring Breivik
Timothy McVeigh
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold
Jared Loughner
Give up? They all loved Ayn Rand. You know, she wrote books about noble heroes who blow things up. Not surprisingly, she loved the murderer William Hickman, so what go around comes around, I guess.
Of course, at this point ebuddy waltzes in and says that makes them part of the group of atheist mass murderers like Stalin, and not like Christians or right-wingers at all.
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Regarding the peculiar attitude towards Christianity the shooter has (he says he is a "cultural Christian," not someone who has "a personal relationship with Jesus"), I am struck by how close his ideas are to Leo Strauss, the godfather of Neoconservatives.
Like Strauss, he regards religion as a useful glue for pragmatic reasons, something that the ruling elites should use to control society.
So, just a generic Euro-nationalist then. Like yer average BNP member.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
It clearly gets in the way of progress when it tries to force schools to offer nonsense under the guise of science.
... like human "gill slits" perpetuated by ignorance of another kind?
Or when it sticks its nose into scientific research it doesn't like.
Or deny the merits of research it doesn't like? Again, try to find examples that do not apply equally to those of any worldview.
And why is it so difficult for you to admit that Christianity has been guilty of some terrible crimes.
Why is it necessary for you to connect these terrible crimes to religion when it is apparent that any philosophy/religion/worldview is capable of the worst aspects of human nature? Again, you have zero to go by in the subject of this thread as he has not invoked his god in his motives. You know he claims to be a Christian and in spite of all the other facts around this person assume, like others, that his religion must've been instrumental in his madness. This is based not on facts, but on your presuppositions of religion and religious people. The mistake as usual is an inability to discern correlative from causal.
You don't explicitly say it, but your posts in this thread very much take a tone of "Christians can do no wrong or if they do its not because they are christians." No-one is accusing you personally of being on the verge of picking up a gun and going on a killing spree.
I'm simply arguing against the opportunists who jump at scenarios like this to bolster their theophobia.
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ebuddy
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
So, what do the following terrorists have in common?
Anders Behring Breivik
Timothy McVeigh
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold
Jared Loughner
Give up? They all loved Ayn Rand. You know, she wrote books about noble heroes who blow things up. Not surprisingly, she loved the murderer William Hickman, so what go around comes around, I guess.
Of course, at this point ebuddy waltzes in and says that makes them part of the group of atheist mass murderers like Stalin, and not like Christians or right-wingers at all.
No, this is where ebuddy steps in to say that you're intolerant of contrarian speech and must resort to any new low you can find to silence it. While Ayn Rand enjoys a great deal of readership for better or worse; the ones to take up arms against innocent children still remain the overwhelming minority of them, suggesting perhaps something more at play than what mckenna must immediately compartmentalize for a simpleton online argument.
By the way, what's right-wing in Norway? Better yet, what's right-wing to you?
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ebuddy
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
Again, you have zero to go by in the subject of this thread as he has not invoked his god in his motives. You know he claims to be a Christian and in spite of all the other facts around this person assume, like others, that his religion must've been instrumental in his madness. This is based not on facts, but on your presuppositions of religion and religious people. The mistake as usual is an inability to discern correlative from causal.
This be a truth. It's like saying that all old Adolf was evil because he had a moustache, therefore there's something wrong with people who have moustaches.
(OK, bad example, I know... ...since all moustache-wearers are actually evil).
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
I don't believe this was motivated by his "Christianity" in the least as not only has he said nothing of his religion in connection to his distaste for immigration, but there is little if anything at all in the Christian text he could use to have committed the crime out of adherence.
From his "manifesto":
EXPLAINING TO GOD
On June 11 he says he prayed for the first time in a long time. "I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamist alliance and the certain Islamic takeover of Europe to completely annihilate European Christendom within the next hundred years, he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail."
I don't care if there is text he can use to "blame the bible". He clearly did this for Christendom. His own words.
Norway's mass killer pursuing anti-Islam crusade | Reuters
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I think the poll needs to be changed to:
1. Right-wing extremist
2. Christian extremist
3. Right-wing Christian extremist
4. Other
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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I don't think that Breivik's actions have anything to do with Christianity, but anyone who thinks that Islamic terrorists represent commonly held Muslim beliefs must also believe that Breivik represents commonly held Christian beliefs.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
I don't think that Breivik's actions have anything to do with Christianity, but anyone who thinks that Islamic terrorists represent commonly held Muslim beliefs must also believe that Breivik represents commonly held Christian beliefs.
Somewhat incorrect.
Christian violence = "off-book".
Islamic violence = "on-book".
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Originally Posted by Doofy
Somewhat incorrect.
Christian violence = "off-book".
Islamic violence = "on-book".
Christian violence = misinterpretation of the Bible.
Islamic violence = misinterpretation of the Qur'an.
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Originally Posted by Doofy
Somewhat incorrect.
Christian violence = "off-book".
Islamic violence = "on-book".
If that were even remotely true, the 2.2 billion Muslims would've killed the rest of us long ago.
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Originally Posted by imitchellg5
Christian violence = misinterpretation of the Bible.
Islamic violence = misinterpretation of the Qur'an.
Right, so old Mo was misinterpreting the koran when he was carrying out all those attacks on mecca?
Military career of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
If that were even remotely true, the 2.2 billion Muslims would've killed the rest of us long ago.
Like most Christians, most muslims are only toe-deep in their chosen (or, more usually, inherited) religion.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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I always got the impression that muslims were quite a lot more likely to be more 'in to' their religion than christians. If only because praying five times a day is more of a commitment than ticking the christian box on the government census.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Originally Posted by AKcrab
The Christian Bible teaches one how to pray and telling God your own will, then carrying it out is not necessarily what prayer is. Jesus did not die on the cross for Christianity, He died on the cross for all of mankind. There was absolutely zero reverence for God in any of his writings, yet admitting that this was the first time he prayed is evidence to you of Christian-devotion? In fact, the overwhelming majority population of Norway are members of the Church of Norway, majority claim a faith, and nearly half self-proclaimed Christian. Again, the problem here is an inability to separate correlative from causal.
It is quite clear with his use of "Christendom" that this is merely used as a link to his heritage; a heritage he felt was in peril.
We know his favorite TV show was Dexter and he loved to play World of Warcraft too. Are these equally to blame that they should be used as some profile of homicidal madness?
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What's most ironic to me is how quickly people absorb this scenario in the context of their own disposition toward a principle, in this case Christianity, then say; "See?!? They are the problem!" As if they can't see the intellectual folly that leads to violence.
(
Last edited by ebuddy; Jul 26, 2011 at 08:18 AM.
)
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ebuddy
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Its no quicker than your denials that christianity could be to blame. For anything. Ever.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Originally Posted by Doofy
(OK, bad example, I know... ...since all moustache-wearers are actually totally awesome).
Fixed the only questionable statement made in this thread
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Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
What's most ironic to me is how quickly people absorb this scenario in the context of their own disposition toward a principle, in this case Christianity, then say; "See?!? They are the problem!" As if they can't see the intellectual folly that leads to violence.
No. You fail to get it. While some will be doing what you're describing, many of us are trying to point out the foolishness of those who look at an Islamic terrorist, absorb THAT scenario in the context of their own disposition toward a principle, point at Islam and then say "See?!? They are the problem!".
Read my post more carefully, without absorbing it into the context of your own disposition toward a principle:
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
I don't think that Breivik's actions have anything to do with Christianity,
but anyone who thinks that Islamic terrorists represent commonly held Muslim beliefs must also believe that Breivik represents commonly held Christian beliefs.
As Doofy pointed out, Christianity can be misinterpreted. What he *fails* to get (or doesn't want to get) is that, by the same token, Islam can *also* be misinterpreted.
(
Last edited by Wiskedjak; Jul 26, 2011 at 09:17 AM.
)
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
As Doofy pointed out, Christianity can be misinterpreted. What he *fails* to get (or doesn't want to get) is that, by the same token, Islam can *also* be misinterpreted.
No, I'm not failing to get it at all.
Pure Christianity = peaceful.
Misinterpreted Christianity = sometimes violent.
Pure islam = violent.
Misinterpreted islam = peaceful.
Founder of Christianity = peaceful chap.
Founder of islam = a warlord.
I don't know how to make it any clearer.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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I find the following quite amusing:
Breivik: I'm doing this for Christendom.
Response: Aaaiiii!!! Christianity is violent and evil!!
Breivik: I'm not doing this alone.
Response: He's doing it alone.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Fixed the only questionable statement made in this thread
Only if you're Tom Selleck or a 70s porn star.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Misinterpretation [of reality] is a cornerstone of ALL religion.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Originally Posted by Doofy
Founder of Christianity = peaceful chap.
Did you miss the part when goes into the temple and attacks a bunch of people. With a whip.
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Did you miss the part when goes into the temple and attacks a bunch of people. With a whip.
Yes, he did, and if you were in my parents' home defiling it I'd likely do the same to you.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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I dunno. There are several examples in the Bible where God massacred unbelievers.
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