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lunaticbunny · Oct 29, 2003, 12:51 AM

Just wondering what's the future for the G4 powerbooks? what i mean is, how much faster will these babies go before G5's are introduced in the powerbooks? i haven't been following motorola's chip roadmap nor know anything about it. do they even have faster chips planned? will they top out where the G4 powermacs were at - 1.42ghz? any chance they'll update the 15" again to a 15.4" widescreen like the rumors suggested before?

on a side note. anyone else having the plastic trim on the bottom portion of their 15" PB starting to separate from the AL casing? mine is.

workerbee · Oct 29, 2003, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by lunaticbunny:
Just wondering what's the future for the G4 powerbooks? what i mean is, how much faster will these babies go before G5's are introduced in the powerbooks?

Maybe Apple will re-introduce Level3 cache in PowerBooks when Motorola can't deliver faster CPUs, the G5 is still too powerhungry, and the second generation Intel Pentium M leaves the PBs too embarrassingly in the dust, raw performance and battery lifetime-wise

The code-named Dothan processor will use the 400MHz Quad Pumped Bus, but will feature 2MB of L2 cache and higher core-clock compared to the original Pentium M �Banias� core.

lunaticbunny · Oct 29, 2003, 04:19 AM

oh yeah! that's another thing i'd like to see in the next powerbooks. battery life on par with centrinos. 2.5 hrs is just not good enough.

nobitacu · Oct 29, 2003, 04:23 AM

I think it'll go all the way to G4 1.5 to 1.8 GHz before heading over to G5.

Ming

Pierre B. · Oct 29, 2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by nobitacu:
I think it'll go all the way to G4 1.5 to 1.8 GHz before heading over to G5.

I am not sure if it makes sense to move up to 1.8 GHz while the processor bus is stuck at 167 MHz. Furthermore, I think Motorola stopped the development of the 7457-RM processor, a G4 with true DDR memory support; at least I cannot find any info about that. G4's future is very obscure right now.

cobra27 · Oct 29, 2003, 07:50 AM

If ever G4 PB line were to be further improved, here's my simple wish list:

1. Bigger L2 cache
2. Faster bus (true DDR)
3. Longer battery life
4. Same or lower price

With the above, I think the processor need not even be improved upon for us to see a gain in performance.

Pierre B. · Oct 30, 2003, 04:28 AM

If I remember well, just after the launch of the G5 back in June, Motorola presented plans for high performance G4 processors in 2004; I have no links for that though. But given their track on such things, I think this is nothing more than a desperation move or public face lifting.

The Placid Casual · Oct 30, 2003, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by nobitacu:
I think it'll go all the way to G4 1.5 to 1.8 GHz before heading over to G5.

Ming

I'd love to know how this could be achieved on a technical basis, as on current technology, it ain't gonna happen...

1.4 is about the max Moto can get out of the G4 currently, and I don't think any more die shrinks are on the cards...

The Placid Casual · Oct 30, 2003, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
[BFurthermore, I think Motorola stopped the development of the 7457-RM processor, a G4 with true DDR memory support; at least I cannot find any info about that. G4's future is very obscure right now. [/B]

Yep, development on the RM was killed ages back... doesn't look like the G4 will ever get true DDR support now.

The better the G5 proves, the less incentive there is for Apple to do anything G4 based.

Dave Hagan · Oct 30, 2003, 07:58 AM

I look at it this way...

If Apple and IBM collaborated for years on the design of the G5, then they most certainly collaborated at some point along the way on how to make the PPC970 fit in a notebook. I'd say that a PBG5 is not too far off (6-8 months).

Pierre B. · Oct 30, 2003, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Dave Hagan:

If Apple and IBM collaborated for years on the design of the G5, then they most certainly collaborated at some point along the way on how to make the PPC970 fit in a notebook. I'd say that a PBG5 is not too far off (6-8 months).

So, do you believe that the current powerbook line (15" and 17" mostly) is the last to sport a G4?

elfmund · Oct 30, 2003, 12:15 PM

are you crazy ??

new 15" PowerBooks were introduced a month ago after a historic delay in product updating for Apple's 15" PowerBook...

if you think people who paid LOTS of CASH for their new 15" and 17" Albooks will just say "hey.. ok... thx apple" if Apple updates the 15" and 17" to G5 in Jan...

my opinion, if Apple want any of the original 15" AlBook and 17" RevB owners to EVER buy an Apple product again they will not buttF**k us like that....

e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

workerbee · Oct 30, 2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

January... highly unlikely. May/June announcement (WWDC)... well who knows?

Casper Crane · Oct 30, 2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

i'm sorry, but i doubt you would stop buying apple computers just because you had buyer's regret.

what are you going to use, a dell?

they are in the business of selling computers, not pacifying the rich, sensitive type.

my worthless opinion is that the G5 will not fit in the powerbook until Q4.

cambro · Oct 30, 2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

Dude, no offense but catering release schedules around people who have already purchased computers is just silly. Somebody will ALWAYS have bought a machine, at full price, a day, two days, a week before a new release. Not to mention those poor peeps waiting on a upgrade to buy!!

If Apple released a G5 PB in January, that would be about 3 months after speed upgrades for two lines and a case redesign/speed upgrade for the 15" line.

What's YOUR magic number? 3.14159 months? 6 months? 7 months?

I for one can't wait for a G5 PB!!! BRING IT ON!

shatten22 · Oct 30, 2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
are you crazy ??

new 15" PowerBooks were introduced a month ago after a historic delay in product updating for Apple's 15" PowerBook...

if you think people who paid LOTS of CASH for their new 15" and 17" Albooks will just say "hey.. ok... thx apple" if Apple updates the 15" and 17" to G5 in Jan...

my opinion, if Apple want any of the original 15" AlBook and 17" RevB owners to EVER buy an Apple product again they will not buttF**k us like that....

e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

Maybe I missed it, but who said January? I think we wil definitely see a G5 in a powerbook by the end of summer. Until then, slight bumps and cache upgrades. The current Pbooks have one more g4 revision left in them.

-g

Tomster · Oct 30, 2003, 04:06 PM

I expect some speed bumps in the line, along with an upgrade in the graphics card. I would love to see a 128mg vram for gaming on the go.

As for revolutionary stuff, it might be a pipe dream, but does anyone think Apple can squeeze dual G4's into a 17"? Power consumption will be huge. Maybe one processor on while on battery and two on while plugged in. Or maybe the G5s will make it into the Powerbooks in the next year or so.

AssassyN · Oct 30, 2003, 04:11 PM

The next revision of PowerBooks will have G5's in them. It's extremely unlikely to see G4's past 1.42Ghz.

elvis2000 · Oct 30, 2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
are you crazy ??

(snip)

e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

I'm finding through MacNN that Apple users are indeed an odd bunch. Since when is technological innovation a bad thing? I'm coming from the PC world where it is accepted that buying today doesn't guarantee you won't be obsolete tomorrow. Accept it. You were stuck waaay too long at 500mhz G4s and now Apple needs to catch up.

So *if* Apple could get the G5 in a laptop you will switch to PCs? Frying pan to the fire, my boy.

Elvis

elvis2000 · Oct 30, 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
The next revision of PowerBooks will have G5's in them. It's extremely unlikely to see G4's past 1.42Ghz.

No one has mentioned the IBM "G4" chips -- which clock much higher than current G4s. Apple doesn't have to call them G4... (G4 Extreme, G4e, G4X, G4ultra, G4ass-kicker, G4.5, etc). Then you have the below for 2004:

Desktops: G5 (up to 3ghz)
Powerbook: G4X (up to 2 ghz)
Consumer: G4 (up to 1.3 ghz)

Makes sense, no?

AssassyN · Oct 30, 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by elvis2000:
No one has mentioned the IBM "G4" chips -- which clock much higher than current G4s. Apple doesn't have to call them G4... (G4 Extreme, G4e, G4X, G4ultra, G4ass-kicker, G4.5, etc). Then you have the below for 2004:

Desktops: G5 (up to 3ghz)
Powerbook: G4X (up to 2 ghz)
Consumer: G4 (up to 1.3 ghz)

Makes sense, no?

Unless this miracle chip provides one heck of a FSB boost, the Mhz are almost useless.

runejoha · Oct 30, 2003, 06:06 PM

After testing some Powerbooks and Imacs I think mac is the future, or I might "know". With the G5 powerbook Apple will have a new era, and no, they will not care about what they sold for 1 or 2 month ago.. I think that they have enough worries about the blood-bath with their plans selling 50% of all lap tops in this world within a 1 or two ( sell the G5 without almost no profit for a while etc.?)

I was thinking of buying a new PB this week, but I realize that the G5 is here in 3-6 month. I just upgraded my Compaq with some memory and made it live for some month. I will be the first ordering the G5, I will not buy old computers...

Even dough this statement could mean to "wait forever" I think the G5 is a pretty big step. Well, now the G4 is on the crappy plastic ibooks (dell look alike) which is very bad for the flagg-ship!

runejoha

ryaxnb · Oct 30, 2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I am not sure if it makes sense to move up to 1.8 GHz while the processor bus is stuck at 167 MHz. Furthermore, I think Motorola stopped the development of the 7457-RM processor, a G4 with true DDR memory support; at least I cannot find any info about that. G4's future is very obscure right now.

Can't you have 200Mhz buses on G4s? Introducing... Palooza!
1.4 Ghz!

What's true DDR memory support? I thought the G4's supported DDR. Why isn't it 'true?' (Just asking)

ryaxnb · Oct 30, 2003, 06:31 PM

I'm thinking eithier... g5 basic introduced at WWDC (PM g5 would be 1.8 2.0 2.2 and PB g5 at 1.4/1.6 or something)
or
g5 pro introduced shipping august... and we all know what that means

12"
1.4/1.5 Ghz
15
1.5 Ghz low-end, 1.6-1.8 Ghz high-end, 1.7/1.8Ghz in 17"

Scooterboy · Oct 30, 2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by elfmund:
are you crazy ??

new 15" PowerBooks were introduced a month ago after a historic delay in product updating for Apple's 15" PowerBook...

if you think people who paid LOTS of CASH for their new 15" and 17" Albooks will just say "hey.. ok... thx apple" if Apple updates the 15" and 17" to G5 in Jan...

my opinion, if Apple want any of the original 15" AlBook and 17" RevB owners to EVER buy an Apple product again they will not buttF**k us like that....

e.g. if Apple update to G5 in January i can be sure to say now that my current 15" AlBook will be my last ever mac and that Apple has the world's worst product release program/plan.

Geez, relax. You know what you bought. A newer PowerBook G4 or G5 will not make yours slower. The only way to keep up with technology is to buy every bloody thing that comes out. I wish I had enough money to buy a G4 PowerBook now. I don't, but I may have enough to buy a G5 PowerBook when they really do appear.
We all know or should know by now that Motorola has really screwed the pooch on keeping the G4 competitive with x86. Apple needs the G5, and not just in their desktops. The sooner the better.

Scooterboy · Oct 30, 2003, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by ryaxnb:
Can't you have 200Mhz buses on G4s? Introducing... Palooza!
1.4 Ghz!

Motorola G4 is limited to either 133 MHz or 167 MHz system bus. Even the IBM G3 in the last iBook G3 is capable of utilizing a 200 MHz bus. Apple kept them at 100 MHz, I think, so the iBook wouldn't outperform Powerbooks.

I think that's why they moved the iBooks over to G4, when IBM's 750GX G3 with 1MB level 2 cache is at 1.1GHz on 200MHz bus. Even without a Velocity Engine it would probably spank a G4.

Pierre B. · Oct 31, 2003, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by ryaxnb:
What's true DDR memory support? I thought the G4's supported DDR. Why isn't it 'true?' (Just asking)

DDR support in the G4 is implemented as a hack in some sense. The processor supports DDR (that is, DDR memory modules are recognized by the system) but it is unable to take advantage of the extra bandwidth provided. However, other system components communicating directly (that is without the processor's intervention) with memory, can take advantage of this extra bandwidth, but this does not change the fact that the perfomance gain is really minimal (of the order of 2-3% if I remember correctly).

TAZ · Oct 31, 2003, 10:16 AM

The most likely thing that is next for the PB series is a fix for the screen issues the 15" is having. At least that is what I am hoping for since I will eventually have to send mine in for repair. After that I think its G5 or some chip other than the Moto G4. Even if they could bump the current G4 to 1.4 gig, which I think is the theoretical max for the chip, and have it remain stable it hardly seems worth it. 1.33 to 1.4 aint much of a change. That time would be much better spent figuring out a way to get the G5 or some equivalent into the PB. Also PLEASE go back to the bigger batteries. 2 hours of life aint good enough for something that is supposed to get 5.