[phillryu]

Hey guys,

Tiger's coming in a couple months, and one of the most exciting features for me is the Dashboard.

I think that Konfabulator proved to be a disappointment in many ways. Most of the gallery consists of iTunes remote controls and clocks, and there was hardly anything really innovative, creative, fun, or very useful beyond the original widgets the app launched with. And if there were, you can count them on your fingers. Then again, it was a huge success in that there were hundreds of submissions. I can't even imagine how many widgets will be created once Dashboard's on hundreds of thousands of Macs.

Any ideas? What would you want? What would you use every day? What's something a Dashboard widget could do that Konfabulator couldn't? And would there be any widgets that you would pay for?

[Grrr]

Only thing that concerns me about Dashboard, is CPU usage. If all that stuff is running all the time in the background or whatever, then is it going to bring about issues?
Konfabulator was a b@stard where CPU usage was concerned. Would start off fine, then gradually steal more and more. And I confess, although konfab seemed great at first, the novelty soon wore off after a couple of days. And I think I deleted it altogether after a week or 2. I hope Dashboard fares better..
I notice many of the widgets shown in the last keynote, were almost entirely things that Sherlock would do, so im guessing Apple is putting Sherlock to rest. But at least Sherlock was not hogging the CPU at all.

As for Dashboard widgets doing what Konfab could not.. Im not sure there would be anything too different there. I just hope that what ever we get, does its job efficiently.
Simple apps that waste CPU power do annoy me

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by phillryu:
I think that Konfabulator proved to be a disappointment in many ways. Most of the gallery consists of iTunes remote controls and clocks, and there was hardly anything really innovative, creative, fun, or very useful beyond the original widgets the app launched with. And if there were, you can count them on your fingers.

It won't be any different with Dashboard. There will be a short hype like there was for Sherlock, but later hardly anybody will seriously use this anymore.

[dylanw]

Originally posted by Grrr:
Only thing that concerns me about Dashboard, is CPU usage. If all that stuff is running all the time in the background or whatever, then is it going to bring about issues?
Konfabulator was a b@stard where CPU usage was concerned. Would start off fine, then gradually steal more and more. And I confess, although konfab seemed great at first, the novelty soon wore off after a couple of days. And I think I deleted it altogether after a week or 2. I hope Dashboard fares better..
I notice many of the widgets shown in the last keynote, were almost entirely things that Sherlock would do, so im guessing Apple is putting Sherlock to rest. But at least Sherlock was not hogging the CPU at all.

How do we know how much CPU time Dashboard will use? I've read that when it's inactive, Dashboard uses almost no CPU time, just like any other application.

As for how popular it will be compared to Sherlock, I can only state my experience. I occasionally use Sherlock for several things (movie times, dictionary, yellow pages, etc.), but more often I just search some online service in Safari. I would use Sherlock more often, but I don't like having it running all the time, with a large window taking up limited screen real estate. And having its icon taking up space in the dock bugs me as well. Dashboard takes care of these issues for me, and I love the look of it. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people feel the same.

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
It won't be any different with Dashboard. There will be a short hype like there was for Sherlock, but later hardly anybody will seriously use this anymore.

Sherlock is a pain to use 'cause it's its own separate app (pain to keep open all the time), and because you can only see one channel at a time. That said, I still use it for stocks, movies, planes, white/yellow pages and occasionally other things; and I don't think I'm a rarity in using Sherlock this way either.

Nor is the issue how many different widgets there are, but rather whether those that exist are done well. Currently, I'm expecting dashboard to replace (for me):

Meteorologist
Calculator.app
OmniDictionary
NisusThesaurus
Sherlock Stocks, White/Yellowpages, Movies, Planes
web-based package tracking
(i'd love a tv listing one that worked too)

That's not a huge variety, but if it can do those things, and do them well, I'll be extremely happy.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by cpac:
Sherlock is a pain to use 'cause it's its own separate app (pain to keep open all the time), and because you can only see one channel at a time.

You can open as many Sherlock windows as you want.

I'm expecting dashboard to replace (for me): Calculator.app

That simplistic + - * / thing will never replace Calculator.app. And that's the problem with Dashboard/Konfabulator and Sherlock. Everything that can be done already exists as dedicated app and does it better there. I expect it to flop, but only time will tell.

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
You can open as many Sherlock windows as you want.That simplistic + - * / thing will never replace Calculator.app. And that's the problem with Dashboard/Konfabulator and Sherlock. Everything that can be done already exists as dedicated app and does it better there. I expect it to flop, but only time will tell.

It's a pain in the ass to open calculator.app, and not have it floating over other things.

I'm not sure what you use it for, but for me, its generally used as a quick adding tool, so I'm not going to be using anything besides the basic functions anyway.

Yes it all can be done anyway - hell why use sherlock at all when it can be done on the web? Why use a software calculator when you could use a nice dedicated calculator? Answer - it's more convenient. That's precisely what Dashboard is: more convenient.

And how would Sherlock be any better at weather or yellowpages or flights than a dashboard widget?

[Jan Van Boghout]

The main appeal of Dashboard for me is that it's only there when you want it to be, and it can be damn handy when you need it. I'll be using it for the international clocks alone

[Arbernaut]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
It won't be any different with Dashboard. There will be a short hype like there was for Sherlock, but later hardly anybody will seriously use this anymore.

Seeing as the Widgets that will ship with Dashboard will include a calculator, Dictionary and Thesaurus I think I will find myself using it all the time. More convenient than checking out dictionary.com all the time!

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
It won't be any different with Dashboard. There will be a short hype like there was for Sherlock, but later hardly anybody will seriously use this anymore.

I don;t agree at all. sherlock was a pain since it was an app. konfab is just clock and itunes crud....

dashboard will be USEFUL as many have posted before... you will see...

[Andrew Stephens]

For all us UK based Mac users Sherlock was REAL useful. Way to supprt your user base apple! i can honestly say that since going over to OSX I have never used Sherlock. total waste of disc space!

Not gettng too excted about these widgets either. My Mac screen is normally full of work and this sort of thng is a distraction at best.

[eatinwokout]

sherlock? what's that? lol. what a waste.

as far as the dashboard widgets are concerned.. i think they're great. no computer usage when they're running in the background.

[phillryu]

Yeah, widgets seem to 'shut down' when not brought forward, so CPU usage would be way lower than Konfab.

[Turnpike]

I agree with what the others have said.. Sherlock is great at what it does, but it isn't quite as convenient as it should be to attain maximum usage. Dashboard will be that convenient.

[phillryu]

Guys, do you have any ideas for small existing apps that could be replaced by widgets? For example, there's Meteorologist, as well as iPulse I would think. Can you think of any others?

[Gamoe]

My reservation about Dashboard is the same thing some people may find cool about it: that it apparently makes the rest of the desktop inactive ( at least what I got from the demo-- as it darkens everything else). It would be nice to have the Calculator replaced by a dashboard widget-- I could call it up whenever I need it, and it wouldn't take up space in my dock. But a lot of times I use Calculator to balance my checkbook, looking at my accounts online, or figure out the tax for some item in the Apple Store, so I need to see the data clearly, not have it darkened for me.

Also, I might just want to bring up the Calculator, not stickies and the iTunes controller and the clock with it. Which brings me to another point-- I don't really see stickies being more useful as a widget. In fact, I think one of the advantages of stickies is that they can always be there-- "sticking" to your desktop, to remind you of this or that.

I am interested, however in the dictionary and thesaurus widget, because implemented correctly, they could be very useful to me while I'm writing in Pages. Sherlock also slowly fell into disuse over time in my Mac as well. I use it seldomly these days, except to look up words, but then I find the Google "define:" feature more useful many times. Also I think having a locally available dictionary/thesaurus database is somewhat important-- What happens if your Internet access is interrupted while you need the dictionary or thesaurus?

I found the placement of the Google bar in Safari's toolbar to be a kind of admission from Apple that Sherlock was not as important a part of the system as Apple hoped it would be. Perhaps I merely saw more than was there, but that's definitely what it seemed like to me. I mean, why not build a "Sherlock search interface" in Safari instead?

Other widgets could be:

Little widget games
A simple audio recorder (for quick audio notes)
A simple synthesizer (call me crazy, I think this would be neat)
A webcam viewer
A small browser and RSS app
A simplified iChat window
A visual multiple-item clipboard

-- Anyway, just some ideas!

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Gabriel Morales:
My reservation about Dashboard is the same thing some people may find cool about it: that it apparently makes the rest of the desktop inactive ( at least what I got from the demo-- as it darkens everything else). It would be nice to have the Calculator replaced by a dashboard widget-- I could call it up whenever I need it, and it wouldn't take up space in my dock. But a lot of times I use Calculator to balance my checkbook, looking at my accounts online, or figure out the tax for some item in the Apple Store, so I need to see the data clearly, not have it darkened for me.

Also, I might just want to bring up the Calculator, not stickies and the iTunes controller and the clock with it. Which brings me to another point-- I don't really see stickies being more useful as a widget. In fact, I think one of the advantages of stickies is that they can always be there-- "sticking" to your desktop, to remind you of this or that.!

You can drag widgets off the Dashboard layer and have them float over your normal applications by dragging them and deactivating the layer. Reverse the process to put it back.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by phillryu:
What's something a Dashboard widget could do that Konfabulator couldn't?

Absolutely nothing except work with Dashboard.

The reason Konfabulator was such a disappointment (as far as selection went) is that the idea behind widgets is to allow non-programmers to make them. Unfortunately, non-programmers aren't very good programmers, so they didn't do very much. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't any technical limitation in Konfabulator that Dashboard is going to correct.

[neilw]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
You can drag widgets off the Dashboard layer and have them float over your normal applications by dragging them and deactivating the layer. Reverse the process to put it back.

Ooh, now that's another story. Can you clarify what the process is exactly? This would answer my one big complaint with Dashboard. If it really is this easy to temporarily enable a widget to live on the normal screen, then Dashboard really should be nice.

[ARENA]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
You can drag widgets off the Dashboard layer and have them float over your normal applications by dragging them and deactivating the layer. Reverse the process to put it back.

I've wondered if that was possible since i first saw Dashboard. I'm glad to know it it. Any snapshot showing specific widgets floating over the desktops alongside other apps would be nice to see.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by ARENA:
I've wondered if that was possible since i first saw Dashboard. I'm glad to know it it. Any snapshot showing specific widgets floating over the desktops alongside other apps would be nice to see.

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
<snipped image that you probably shouldn't be showing>

Now that's a sexy game of Patience. I wondered what talented individual made that.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Black Book:
Now that's a sexy game of Patience. I wondered what talented individual made that.

Yes, congrats on a sexy game Chris O'Brien. I just wish you could double click cards to make them automatically go to the right place. Dragging is a bit sketchy as well, doesn't always snap into place.

[ARENA]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
image snipped

Excellent Erik! i assume widgets behave like apps in the sense they can also float over the desktop but behing other app windows, like if you click that Safari window it will obscure the widgets. Or they're supposed to always float over everything?

[cybergoober]

Originally posted by neilw:
Ooh, now that's another story. Can you clarify what the process is exactly? This would answer my one big complaint with Dashboard. If it really is this easy to temporarily enable a widget to live on the normal screen, then Dashboard really should be nice.

From what I've been told

--Start dragging the widget off of the Dashboard "dock" then hit F12 again

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by ARENA:
Excellent Erik! i assume widgets behave like apps in the sense they can also float over the desktop but behing other app windows, like if you click that Safari window it will obscure the widgets. Or they're supposed to always float over everything?

They are always floating, a useful thing for say the calculator. And in case anyone wonder, they still do the 3d flip-arounds and stuff when you manipulate them outside the layer.

[Visnaut]

Wow, that's friggin awesome.

So we have the choice of only activating widgets when we need them, and the option of dragging them out when we need to use them concurrently with other apps. Superb, and very elegant.

I'm going to make real good use of Dashboard. Once I can purchase Tiger, I'm going to convert some of my own private Konfabulator widgets and release them to the general public. They'll work and look a lot better than before!

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Visnaut:
Wow, that's friggin awesome.

So we have the choice of only activating widgets when we need them, and the option of dragging them out when we need to use them concurrently with other apps. Superb, and very elegant.

Still don't see why these things are neater because they're widgets than they would be if they were proper apps.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Still don't see why these things are neater because they're widgets than they would be if they were proper apps.

Dock clutter, the need to quit or relaunch them, and a standard way to have a non-aqua interface (i.e. preferences are on the back, they all live in a layer, etc.).

[osxisfun]

I'm not understanding your response...(chuckit)

But because they are a widget they get to live on a layer that does not mess up your applications layer.

if you find you are using a widget like an application, then you have the option to drag it out to the app level...

but for the seldom used widgets, they only muss things up when the dashboard is turned on...

[lookmark]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
They are always floating, a useful thing for say the calculator. And in case anyone wonder, they still do the 3d flip-arounds and stuff when you manipulate them outside the layer.

Fascinating -- I'll be curious to see if the ability to detach widgets from the Dashboard layer stays in for the final release.

Erik, can you drag and drop text -- say, a result from the Calculator widget's text field -- from a detached widget into TextEdit? Are there contextual menu options for text that's selected in a widget?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by lookmark:
Erik, can you drag and drop text -- say, a result from the Calculator widget's text field -- from a detached widget into TextEdit? Are there contextual menu options for text that's selected in a widget?

I just got rid of my Tiger beta, but drag and drop capabilities as far as I remember are intact. Widgets contain the same text-engine as the rest of the OS and copying and pasting works fine, so dragging and dropping should as well.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
I just got rid of my Tiger beta, but drag and drop capabilities as far as I remember are intact. Widgets contain the same text-engine as the rest of the OS and copying and pasting works fine, so dragging and dropping should as well.

Sounds good. Just checking.

You're the first person I've seen to point out the detachable widgets, btw.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by lookmark:
Sounds good. Just checking.

You're the first person I've seen to point out the detachable widgets, btw.

I only learnt from it on a thread in the Mac OS forum some weeks ago, so don't give me all the credit