[tavilach]

Although we can't afford it, my parents offered to get me a copy of Photoshop ($299). I feel very limited when I use Macromedia Fireworks, which is what I've been using for web design for years. When I see amazing websites, I think to myself, "How on earth would I do that using Fireworks?"

My lack of Photoshop has also left me feeling impaired in many scenarios. One professor expected that I had it, and was stunned to hear that I used a different application. It's hard to edit certain Photoshop files without Photoshop. People give me pictures to edit, and I end up producing something inferior, simply because Fireworks is all I have, and it definetely doesn't suffice for image editing. Furthermore, I've always been interested in producing mock-up images and becoming good at computer graphics, but again, that's just a hobby.

$299 is a lot of money, though, and I really feel that it's too much. If I end of getting it, I'll feel enormously guilty unless I use it every day, and because web design is just a hobby of mine, I could easily end up not using it that frequently. Of course, it would be extremely helpful to have in those instances where I've always felt impaired.

My main question is this: Can Photoshop accomplish more than Fireworks in terms of making very unique and aesthetically pleasing websites, or have I just not mastered the art of using Fireworks to accomplish this task?

[Stradlater]

Get Photoshop Elements.

[quietjim]

I have Fireworks, Photoshop elements and Photoshop CS. I think the suggestion above to get Photoshop Elements is a great one.

PS is all about editing photos; personally I think Fireworks is a better tool for creating web graphics. And if (as I assume) you are using it with Dreamweaver, it's an ideal suite. Frankily, I think web sites are less and less about flashy graphics and more about careful, semantic design... which means work on your CSS skills.

I do agree Fireworks is not a good photo editor. For that, I would get Elements. It amazes me how much this program does and in some ways does better than Photoshop itself.

The one thing I think Photoshop does better than any of these is prep graphics for high end printing such as a magazine. Doesn't sound like this is on your list of things to do at the moment. I'd go with Elements.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by quietjim

I have Fireworks, Photoshop elements and Photoshop CS. I think the suggestion above to get Photoshop Elements is a great one.

PS is all about editing photos; personally I think Fireworks is a better tool for creating web graphics. And if (as I assume) you are using it with Dreamweaver, it's an ideal suite. Frankily, I think web sites are less and less about flashy graphics and more about careful, semantic design... which means work on your CSS skills.

I do agree Fireworks is not a good photo editor. For that, I would get Elements. It amazes me how much this program does and in some ways does better than Photoshop itself.

The one thing I think Photoshop does better than any of these is prep graphics for high end printing such as a magazine. Doesn't sound like this is on your list of things to do at the moment. I'd go with Elements.

People have constantly suggested Photoshop Elements, but I've turned the other way because I need vectors and such. What I keep forgetting is that Fireworks + Elements might be exactly what I need. Thanks for making that clear .

Nevertheless, I'd really like to hear other opinions about using Photoshop for web design, and whether it's worth the money. Sometimes people have drastically different views.

Edit: By the way, thanks for the CSS tip. I've been under a rock for a year or two, and during that time it seems that CSS has flourished. Time to switch from tables to CSS .

[Randman]

As I said in your other Photoshop thread ...

I still say unless you are a professional, Photoshop Elements has everything you need for $99. You seem to have an aversion for it or perhaps you think it'll be underwhelming, of which both assumptions would likely be incorrect.

[moonmonkey]

Or get a cheap version of 7.0 or 8.0, nothing much changed in 9.0

Never tried elements.

[Mastrap]

You're talking about a professor? In which case get the edu version for a significantly reduced price.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

You're talking about a professor? In which case get the edu version for a significantly reduced price.

This was just some visiting scholar who couldn't do anything for me, and I'm not working with him anymore.

[alphasubzero949]

GIMP.app?

[Mastrap]

^ Christ, no. No offence to the open source people but....

[Phil Sherry]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I feel very limited when I use Macromedia Fireworks, which is what I've been using for web design for years. When I see amazing websites, I think to myself, "How on earth would I do that using Fireworks?"

You're making zero sense here. Fireworks was developed for web design. Photoshop was developed to touch up photos, and gradually had more added to it.

[sandsl]

Photoshop is an essential piece of software. Like someone said earlier, see if you can find a cheap copy of version 7, if not get photoshop elements. Failing that, 'borrow' a copy, your only a youngster after all.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by sandsl

Photoshop is an essential piece of software. Like someone said earlier, see if you can find a cheap copy of version 7, if not get photoshop elements. Failing that, 'borrow' a copy, your only a youngster after all.

Would you mind explaining why you see it as essential?

[sandsl]

I can't really explain why its essential, but its the tool of choice amongst professionals - and that must be for a reason. I'd be lost without Photoshop, trying to hack together websites, edit images etc with inadequate tools. Saying that, I'm sure you could do almost everything you need with cheaper tools, but why make it harder for yourself than it already is.

Photoshop is a gem, a must for any creative professional. Creative professionals should be able to afford the price tag (after all they earn from it). I'd count you as student, and should really qualify for a student discount anyway even though your not in higher education.

[Sharky K.]

I use photoshop very often, it is horrible. I would stay by the application you already use and master CSS.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

GIMP.app?

Not even close to being a Photoshop replacement.

[jasong]

I designed web sites for 5 years without using Photoshop (using Fireworks). For web graphics, Fireworks can't be beat. If you want to do photo editing and retouching, then Fireworks isn't your best tool. While I haven't used Photoshop elements, I have found that my copy of Photoshop 5 running in Classic handles my photo editing needs quite nicely. I'll probably make the move to elements sometime this year as Classic is getting (wait for it) . . . old.

[Kevin]

Fireworks is a dead app.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by sandsl

I'd count you as student, and should really qualify for a student discount anyway even though your not in higher education.

First of all, $299 is a lot of money. Second of all, I'm not in higher education?

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by sandsl

I can't really explain why its essential, but its the tool of choice amongst professionals - and that must be for a reason.

Because, quite simply, there are things you can do with Photoshop that you can't do with any other program. Some of these features - like doing channel math – don't show up unless you're doing high end work, but they are irreplacable.

I agree with the comments about getting an old version of Photoshop. The changes between 7.0 and CS are pretty minimal.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Because, quite simply, there are things you can do with Photoshop that you can't do with any other program. Some of these features - like doing channel math – don't show up unless you're doing high end work, but they are irreplacable.

I agree with the comments about getting an old version of Photoshop. The changes between 7.0 and CS are pretty minimal.

Would Elements + Fireworks suffice for creating web graphics? Would the combination be even better, perhaps?

[Randman]

Maybe it would be easier to answer if Tavi told us what he wanted to do.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Randman

Maybe it would be easier to answer if Tavi told us what he wanted to do.

I want to be able to make much more professional looking web graphics, and I also want to start teaching myself digital design and effective image manipulation (both for touch-ups and creative avenues).

[Randman]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I want to be able to make much more professional looking web graphics.

Don't need PS for that.

Originally Posted by tavilach

I also want to start teaching myself digital design.

What do you mean by digital design?

Originally Posted by tavilach

effective image manipulation (both for touch-ups and creative avenues).

Again, PS Elements would more than meet your needs if you can't get an edu discount.


For all of these, you can also get a part-time job and the edu discount on Adobe CS if you're truly serious.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by tavilach

First of all, $299 is a lot of money. Second of all, I'm not in higher education?

You don't need to be in "higher education" to get a student license I think. I'm sure that you don't need it with Office (I got Office 2000 Pro when I was 16, and my sister got Office 2004 when she was like 12). I'm pretty sure it's the same for Adobe.

And please compare CS to Elements. You'll see that Elements is probably enough for you.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

You don't need to be in "higher education" to get a student license I think. I'm sure that you don't need it with Office (I got Office 2000 Pro when I was 16, and my sister got Office 2004 when she was like 12). I'm pretty sure it's the same for Adobe.

And please compare CS to Elements. You'll see that Elements is probably enough for you.

Damnit, people! I am in friggin' higher education! What you quoted was a question for the person who randomly and bluntly stated that I wasn't in higher education. Enough of that ...

I'm trying to compare CS to Elements. That's one of the turns this thread has taken, as I'm trying to figure out if Fireworks + Elements is the best solution for me. I can't exactly clap my hands and compare different software titles, though. That's where you guys come in!

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Would Elements + Fireworks suffice for creating web graphics? Would the combination be even better, perhaps?

Depends on what you mean by "web graphics". For creating GIFs and JPEGs, Elements should work. Actually, for that kind or work the GIMP will work, as you're dealing with lo-res RGB or Index files.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I'm trying to compare CS to Elements. That's one of the turns this thread has taken, as I'm trying to figure out if Fireworks + Elements is the best solution for me. I can't exactly clap my hands and compare different software titles, though. That's where you guys come in!

Tell us what you plan to do with Photoshop, then perhaps we can tell you if Elements is sufficient.

I have both Photoshop CS (not CS2) and Elements 3.0 (got them for basically peanuts as I'm university faculty), and 9 times out of 10 I'll use Elements.

[:dragonflypro:]

Can Photoshop accomplish more than Fireworks? As a photo editor, yes.

Is it a powerful tool that can create better sites than FW? Possibly, but the skill lies much with the designer, not the app.

Personally, I would be very uncomfortable letting someone buy me a $300 app for my personal hobby.

Do you even know how to use PS? Even if you have it, it isn't gonna magically produce those sites.

I rarely use PS for web design. FW can be slow, but it smokes as far as web design.

+ Elements is a good start.

Get the demo at adobe.com and try it out. Then if you like it you can buy PS down the road.

T