[macdaemon]

What do you think about this MWSF? I didn't see what I wanted to see and looks like market is agree with me, Apple stocks went down after keynote on the 6.38%. What do you think about Apple coming to the mass market?
I'm sure that they will lose me if they will not release PowerBook G5 until May.

[Randman]

Have you really thought about what a G5PB will be? Likely, it'll be 1.8Ghz with a 100Gb hard drive, not much different that the rumored bump to the G4 line that should be forthcoming.
Also, a G4 bump will will be rev d, while a G5 will be rev a and prone to more issues.
IMO, it'l be worth jumping when the PB hits 2.0 and goes to rev b.
I think too many people are hypnotized by the phrase G5 PowerBook without thinking too much of the details.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by Randman:
Have you really thought about what a G5PB will be? Likely, it'll be 1.8Ghz with a 100Gb hard drive, not much different that the rumored bump to the G4 line that should be forthcoming.
Also, a G4 bump will will be rev d, while a G5 will be rev a and prone to more issues.
IMO, it'l be worth jumping when the PB hits 2.0 and goes to rev b.
I think too many people are hypnotized by the phrase G5 PowerBook without thinking too much of the details.

Well, the problem is that G4 1.25Ghz that I have no is not enough already, I would love to have more speedy PowerBook, and 1.5Ghz G4 doesn't make any sence, less than 10% of boost. G5 1.8Ghz that's much better that G4. 1.25 and probably will be a 30% to 50% speed bump, so it's almost what I need.

[Randman]

From 1.25 to 1.8 isn't a huge jump. How much ram do you have? That would close the gap even more. If you really need more power, you ought to consider an iMac or PowerMac.

And if the PB line does get bumped to 1.67, that makes an even smaller jump in performance.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by Randman:
From 1.25 to 1.8 isn't a huge jump. How much ram do you have? That would close the gap even more. If you really need more power, you ought to consider an iMac or PowerMac.

And if the PB line does get bumped to 1.67, that makes an even smaller jump in performance.

I have a Dual G5 2.5Ghz at home, but I travel a lot and need powerful mobile system for 3D rendering and video, so mobile G5 is what I really need, I'll save more time. I have 2Gb or RAM on PB and 4Gb of RAM on G5, it's enough for me, but speed of PB sometimes need more, specially to convert video to mpeg4 and other complex things like renedering in Cinema 4D.

[ixus_123]

I haven't read anything about new battery technology making the mainstream yet. I'm in no doubt Apple could fit & cool a G5 in a laptop case - the problem arises from powering it for 6 hours

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by ixus_123:
I haven't read anything about new battery technology making the mainstream yet. I'm in no doubt Apple could fit & cool a G5 in a laptop case - the problem arises from powering it for 6 hours

Dunno, If they can power a Centrino for 4hours+ they can power a G5 IMO. Apple has always been behind with their batteries.

[Randman]

Still a heat issue more than battery, I'd think.

[meatyocre]

For once I made the right decision! In October people speculated a PowerBook speed bump. That was a bust, so I debated for days. I then ordered a decked out PB 1.5/80 5400/128mb video/1.5G ram... and have been very happy with it. After yesterdays disappointing keynote, i was extremely happy to have NOT waited all this time for a new Rev. or price drop.

The next Generation PowerBooks will undoubtedly push mobile computing innovation!

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by meatyocre:
For once I made the right decision! In October people speculated a PowerBook speed bump. That was a bust, so I debated for days. I then ordered a decked out PB 1.5/80 5400/128mb video/1.5G ram... and have been very happy with it. After yesterdays disappointing keynote, i was extremely happy to have NOT waited all this time for a new Rev. or price drop.

The next Generation PowerBooks will undoubtedly push mobile computing innovation!

Disappointing ?

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by meatyocre:
For once I made the right decision! In October people speculated a PowerBook speed bump. That was a bust, so I debated for days. I then ordered a decked out PB 1.5/80 5400/128mb video/1.5G ram... and have been very happy with it. After yesterdays disappointing keynote, i was extremely happy to have NOT waited all this time for a new Rev. or price drop.

The next Generation PowerBooks will undoubtedly push mobile computing innovation!

What's really makes me happy that is actually that I've been using PB G4 Al 1.25Ghz since 20 of December 2003, so today is 12 of Jan 2005 and the highest speed PowerBook G4 still run almost my CPU speed.
So, it was a good investment for me!

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by macdaemon:
What do you think about this MWSF? I didn't see what I wanted to see and looks like market is agree with me, Apple stocks went down after keynote on the 6.38%. What do you think about Apple coming to the mass market?
I'm sure that they will lose me if they will not release PowerBook G5 until May.

While I'm slightly disapointed (I'm not in the market for a new PB). I'm not surprised given the big announcemennts of the the new 499 mac and the ipod shuffle.

Anuways why do you think that we will have to wait until summer. Apple has released speed bumps during the year so they could have a small bump coming next month or the following who knows.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Maflynn:

Anuways why do you think that we will have to wait until summer. Apple has released speed bumps during the year so they could have a small bump coming next month or the following who knows.

That's right. The next Powerbook update will happen somewhere in this or next month, and the only chip available right now for this update is the new member in the 7447 family, the 7447B. It runs at 1.67 Ghz maximum and it will give the Powerbook line a little time until the 7448 comes out. This one, if I remember correctly, is pin compatible with the current 7447 G4s. After that you can count on a major redesign to accomodate the dual-core, but with low power requirements, 8641D (in a year or so from now).

Seeing the G5 in an iMac, you just realize that there is no way to put this kind of processor in a thin notebook like the current Powerbooks. On the other hand, IBM did not make any announcement about some new 64-bit (G5-like) portable chips. So, personally, I believe that we will not see such chips in the Powerbooks anytime soon. It seems to me a Freescale only path, unless IBM comes a day with a high performace chip that can compete with the ones from Freescale in power consumption.

[ingeniero]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
That's right. The next Powerbook update will happen somewhere in this or next month, and the only chip available right now for this update is the new member in the 7447 family, the 7447B. It runs at 1.67 Ghz maximum and it will give the Powerbook line a little time until the 7448 comes out. This one, if I remember correctly, is pin compatible with the current 7447 G4s. After that you can count on a major redesign to accomodate the dual-core, but with low power requirements, 8641D (in a year or so from now).

Seeing the G5 in an iMac, you just realize that there is no way to put this kind of processor in a thin notebook like the current Powerbooks. On the other hand, IBM did not make any announcement about some new 64-bit (G5-like) portable chips. So, personally, I believe that we will not see such chips in the Powerbooks anytime soon. It seems to me a Freescale only path, unless IBM comes a day with a high performace chip that can compete with the ones from Freescale in power consumption.

How about the fact of G5 chips in the Xserve? I understand the cooling in the portability aspect, but they must be on the right track, since this thing is pretty thin. same as the new iMac G5.

[jpg71]

Originally posted by macdaemon:
Well, the problem is that G4 1.25Ghz that I have no is not enough already...

What happened since the time you bought it that made it not enough? I'm confused - was the G4 1.25Ghz capable of doing your work last year, but now it can't? Or are you just used to desktops getting faster such that your PB now feels slow?

Notebook computers are always lagging behind their desktop counterparts. Unfortunately, for those of us who use both, we get spoiled by the performance on the desk and end up regarding the notebook as inadequate A friend of mine once told me to never use a computer faster than the one I just bought. I think that's good advice!

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by ingeniero:
How about the fact of G5 chips in the Xserve? I understand the cooling in the portability aspect, but they must be on the right track, since this thing is pretty thin.

Actually, the problem is the available volume. The XServe measures 852.544 inches^3, while the biggest Powerbook only 157.08 inches^3 (see Apple's site for the exact dimensions). This means the XServe has about 5.43 times the volume of the biggest Powerbook. Ouch!

[tooki]

Originally posted by jpg71:
Notebook computers are always lagging behind their desktop counterparts.

Not "always". In 1998-99, the PowerBook G3 line was absolutely megahertz-for-megahertz identical with the Power Mac G3. It was really the only time I can think of that laptops and desktops had identical CPU performance. Too bad it didn't last!

tooki

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by jpg71:
performance on the desk and end up regarding the notebook as inadequate A friend of mine once told me to never use a computer faster than the one I just bought. I think that's good advice!

That's the best advice I have ever heard!
Damn, my good ol' PB 12" feels much better now!

[ptolemy]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
That's right. The next Powerbook update will happen somewhere in this or next month, and the only chip available right now for this update is the new member in the 7447 family, the 7447B. It runs at 1.67 Ghz maximum and it will give the Powerbook line a little time until the 7448 comes out. This one, if I remember correctly, is pin compatible with the current 7447 G4s. After that you can count on a major redesign to accomodate the dual-core, but with low power requirements, 8641D (in a year or so from now).

Seeing the G5 in an iMac, you just realize that there is no way to put this kind of processor in a thin notebook like the current Powerbooks. On the other hand, IBM did not make any announcement about some new 64-bit (G5-like) portable chips. So, personally, I believe that we will not see such chips in the Powerbooks anytime soon. It seems to me a Freescale only path, unless IBM comes a day with a high performace chip that can compete with the ones from Freescale in power consumption.

I wouldn't want a G5 in an laptop. At the same clock speeds the new G4 7448 will probably outperform the G5, plus the 7448 will only consume like 10W .

There is one thing I wonder though...
The 7447B has probably been available for a while now, then why has Apple not updated the PowerBook yet? They have clearly been waiting for something...

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by ptolemy:
There is one thing I wonder though...
The 7447B has probably been available for a while now, then why has Apple not updated the PowerBook yet? They have clearly been waiting for something...

Official information about the 7447B was not available before mid-December 2004. I don't think this is too much waiting. Apple needs to stock processors and have ready a number of Powerbooks when the update comes into light.

[ChrisF]

Originally posted by ingeniero:
How about the fact of G5 chips in the Xserve? I understand the cooling in the portability aspect, but they must be on the right track, since this thing is pretty thin. same as the new iMac G5.

Have you ever heard an XServe? People complain about a little fan noise in Powerbooks now... imagine an XServe on your lap.

[Skip Breakfast]

ooh! Mod the Xserve by adding a 30" display on a hinge. That will answer the "who has the biggest notebook" issue once and for all.

[Pierre B.]

May I point you to what Peter Oppenheimer said during Apple's Q1 2005 conference call today? Be prepared for a big disappointment if you expect a Powerbook G5 this year.

[SEkker]

Sure looks like a Freescale dual core G4 is the way to go for the next laptops. I think a 1.5 GHz duallie would be more than enough horsepower for all but the video afficianados in the crowd. And it probably would not require a major motherboard redesign.

The only question is how to market it when everyone is expecting a G5 PB next.

[Link]

IMHO the sooner the powerbook gets a g5, the better. That also means the sooner Rev B comes, you whiners.

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by Link:
IMHO the sooner the powerbook gets a g5, the better. That also means the sooner Rev B comes, you whiners.

There will be no G5-'Book! Now you can start whining!

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by jpg71:
What happened since the time you bought it that made it not enough? I'm confused - was the G4 1.25Ghz capable of doing your work last year, but now it can't? Or are you just used to desktops getting faster such that your PB now feels slow?

Notebook computers are always lagging behind their desktop counterparts. Unfortunately, for those of us who use both, we get spoiled by the performance on the desk and end up regarding the notebook as inadequate A friend of mine once told me to never use a computer faster than the one I just bought. I think that's good advice!

Well, I bought G5 dual 2.5Ghz not so far ago, so it's a huge difference in speed specially in Final Cut and Cinema 4D, of course I use my PowerBook when I travel, but I still render everything at office machine because it's much faster, I want G5 PowerBook because it's will save my time on the trips.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
May I point you to what Peter Oppenheimer said during Apple's Q1 2005 conference call today? Be prepared for a big disappointment if you expect a Powerbook G5 this year.

Yeah, his "mother of all thermal challenges" comment strongly suggests we won't see a G5 Powerbook for at least another year.

[Olorin]

What is different between the 7447a and b? Faster Bus? Also, isn't it customary for apple to get higher clocked chips than advertised by the parent company? Like the 1.42Ghz G4 which motorola didn't list on any of their documentation.

I'd probably by a powerbook 1.8Ghz G4 with a 200Mhz MPX bus.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Olorin:
I'd probably by a powerbook 1.8Ghz G4 with a 200Mhz MPX bus.

IF that happens, the G5s would have to start at 2.0, which means they won't be out until 2007 or so. Think the 1.67 rumor is more likely, giving Apple a little breathing room until they can get what's in the iMac now into a PowerBook.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Olorin:
What is different between the 7447a and b? Faster Bus?

It looks like the 7447B runs slightly cooler than the 7447A at the same clock speed, and it can go up to 1.67 GHz.

Also, isn't it customary for apple to get higher clocked chips than advertised by the parent company? Like the 1.42Ghz G4 which motorola didn't list on any of their documentation.

Yes, this happened in the past. But I don't think it would go beyond 1.7 GHz this time.

I'd probably by a powerbook 1.8Ghz G4 with a 200Mhz MPX bus.

This is the 7448, I think. In fact, the 7448 is the only G4 advertized to run on a 200 MHz bus. Bus speed for the 7447B is not known at this point, I guess same as in the 7447A (167 MHz).

[His Dudeness]

Originally posted by Link:
IMHO the sooner the powerbook gets a g5, the better. That also means the sooner Rev B comes, you whiners.

I was gonna say what a sad day it is when a 1.5 Ghz G4 Powerbook isn't fast enough to satisfy people.

[Randman]

More ram would help more people than a slight bump in ghz.

[His Dudeness]

Tell me about. I put 768 in my Dell Inspiron 8600. You wouldn't believe what a memory hog XP is. Now this laptop is smooth.

[Link]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Yeah, his "mother of all thermal challenges" comment strongly suggests we won't see a G5 Powerbook for at least another year.

I say they want to punish us for thinksecret, 2007!

Randman: I can see it now, apple doing one product at a time.

"Ok, now that the mac mini is done, what should we do next?"

Yeah.. right.. I thought they had all these fully sized product teams for every sort of thing!

I don't really give a damn about g5s, a dual g4 setup would be cool, dualcore or not.. I think it'd be possible with a good bus slewing system to make a quiet and cool g5 laptop, actually.

OTOH, they're supposed to be 'cheaper' than G4s. Dunno what ever happened with that about the chips though.

I wanna see a 17" with 1920x1200 screen, 100gb drive, dual layer superdrive, better speakers.. and a nicer case.

Damn thing's been the same 2 years now.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Link:
I wanna see a 17" with 1920x1200 screen, 100gb drive, dual layer superdrive, better speakers.. and a nicer case.

Chances are pretty high that you will find it in the x86 land.

[dennis88]

Powerbooks has always been as fast, or faster then iMacs.
If they release a 1.67 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus, it's still going to be a lot slower then the 1.8 ghz G5 in the iMac, and then I might buy a PC laptop for my music editing instead.

I believe to see:

12" PB:
-1.5 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.
-Nvidia go6200 64 mb.
-256 mb 333 mhz ram.
-Built in bluetooth/Airport.
-60gb 4200 rpm standard, 80gb 5400 rpm optional.

15" PB:
-1.7 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.
-Ati mobility 9800 128 mb. (not sure about this one)
-512 mb 400 mhz ram.
-Built in bluetooth/Airport.
-80 gb 5400 rpm standard, 100 gb 5400 rpm optional.

17" PB:
-Same as 15", but a bit higher clockspeed perhaps.

[Simon]

Originally posted by dennis88:
-1.5 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.
...
-1.7 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.

Um, no. The current available 7447B has a maximum bus speed of 167MHz like all the other 74xx/75x. Until the 7448 appears there will be no G4 with 200MHz bus. AFAIK the 7448 has not even shipped for testing yet. The next PowerBook rev will most certainly have a 7447B with a 167MHz bus.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by dennis88:
Powerbooks has always been as fast, or faster then iMacs.
If they release a 1.67 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus, it's still going to be a lot slower then the 1.8 ghz G5 in the iMac, and then I might buy a PC laptop for my music editing instead.

I believe to see:

12" PB:
-1.5 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.
-Nvidia go6200 64 mb.
-256 mb 333 mhz ram.
-Built in bluetooth/Airport.
-60gb 4200 rpm standard, 80gb 5400 rpm optional.

15" PB:
-1.7 ghz G4 with 200 mhz bus.
-Ati mobility 9800 128 mb. (not sure about this one)
-512 mb 400 mhz ram.
-Built in bluetooth/Airport.
-80 gb 5400 rpm standard, 100 gb 5400 rpm optional.

17" PB:
-Same as 15", but a bit higher clockspeed perhaps.

This configurations that you listed doesn't make a huge move in the performance.
I really need faster CPU, I have already got the fastest HD 60Gb 7200 rpm, will install it tomorrow. I wish PowerLogix, Sonnet or XLR8 will joke at Apple and release upgade card for PB G4 Al, like dual core G4!

[joltguy]

Anyone think a dual G4 config is a possibility, at least in the 17?

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by joltguy:
Anyone think a dual G4 config is a possibility, at least in the 17?

In one year from now, yes. It is possible. With the dual-core e600 from Freescale.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
In one year from now, yes. It is possible. With the dual-core e600 from Freescale.

How about this spring? What�s the problem to change the processor and architecture? MPC8641D 15 Watts-25 Watts, not a problem.

Prototype of PowerBook G4 dual core

BTW: Freescale site runs under Stronghold/3.0 Apache/1.3.22 RedHat/3019
Why they don't run MacOS X Server? LOL

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by macdaemon:
How about this spring? What?s the problem to change the processor and architecture? MPC8641D 15 Watts-25 Watts, not a problem.

The problem is they said themselves that the MPC8641D will go into sampling the second half of 2005, so you can expect production in a year from now. If things run without problems.

[moodymonster]

Apple like to keep what they're up to a secret. Apple is a big customer of freescale and the PB G5 is a BIG product for Apple.

Maybe I'm wrong here but Freescale released info about the e600 platform (the G4, but with 200Mhz FSB and a dual core capable, system-on-chip 667Mhz FSB) back in April and the info on their site seems to be dated september. They also gave some indication about e700 (32/64 bit capable) back in April.

The defining part of the G5 is that it is 64bit, ergo PB chip would need to be the e700. Apple couldn't stick a 32bit processor in the PB and call it G5, therefore maybe the e700 chip is far more developed than information available would suggest. Or at least we're likely to see uprated G4s across the board. ibooks/pbooks with 200Mhz FSB minimum and 667Mhz on the PB with dual core on the 17". Also the 667Mhz chips have the networking etc done on chip so the motherboard is simpler and the performance faster.

Maybe I'm being hopeful that chip development will be further along?

[Camelot]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
Actually, the problem is the available volume. The XServe measures 852.544 inches^3, while the biggest Powerbook only 157.08 inches^3 (see Apple's site for the exact dimensions). This means the XServe has about 5.43 times the volume of the biggest Powerbook. Ouch!

Irrelevant.

PowerBooks don't need 3 drive bays (the front 1/3 of the XServe is nothing but drive bays), dual ethernet ports. 3 PCI slots and internal AC/DC power supplies.

If you look inside the XServe you'll see the motherboard isn't all that far different from the size of the 15" PowerBook. Drop the second CPU and you'd save a few more inches, too.

Physical dimensions are not the issue. Heat dissipation and power consumption are.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by Camelot:
Irrelevant.

PowerBooks don't need 3 drive bays (the front 1/3 of the XServe is nothing but drive bays), dual ethernet ports. 3 PCI slots and internal AC/DC power supplies.

If you look inside the XServe you'll see the motherboard isn't all that far different from the size of the 15" PowerBook. Drop the second CPU and you'd save a few more inches, too.

Physical dimensions are not the issue. Heat dissipation and power consumption are.

Did you see fans in the XServe, even XServe G4 Dual sometimes screams as hell when the both CPU running on the max. speed, so, it's a huge difference in the cooling and there is much more space in XServe comapre to today design of PowerBooks. I use to run rc5-72 client and when it get the full cpu time believe me my PowerBook get really hot, can't hold, it has to be on the desk, temperature get's until +64.5C. The problem is that G5 needs really some extra cooling system, not like Apple used in G4 and probably they will redesign the whole PowerBook in the future, it will get's bigger.
I really want them to look on the problems with battery life, because it sucks at the moment for the whole Apple portable notebooks.

[Talleyman]

Originally posted by macdaemon:
What do you think about this MWSF? I didn't see what I wanted to see and looks like market is agree with me, Apple stocks went down after keynote on the 6.38%. What do you think about Apple coming to the mass market?
I'm sure that they will lose me if they will not release PowerBook G5 until May.

Lose you, oh NO...NOT YOU....PLEASE DON'T....UMMMM


bye!

[ovrlrd]

I don't think Oppenheimer really would confirm or deny a powerbook G5 even with that statement he made. I think Apple is always up to the task of a good challenge like that. It might mean we won't see Powerbook G5s this year, but I believe that it's still very likely we will see it this year. Oppenheimer is just the CFO, he isn't in the position of an engineer who can really say how likely it is to come out this year or not. I think Apple will do everything they can do get it done.

I still stand by the following myself, but I can't say how much will be true:

Expect a usual speed bump in the coming weeks to months and then around WWDC time expect a Powerbook G5 (possibly).

Also if IBM was working on a G5 revision that fixed the cooling issues and made it possible for the Powerbook G5 to be done, they would try to keep this information very well under wraps. Apple wouldn't want people thinking the Powerbook G5 is coming out anytime soon, even if they are on track for a release later this year.

[theBlend]

Originally posted by ovrlrd:
I don't think Oppenheimer really would confirm or deny a powerbook G5 even with that statement he made. I think Apple is always up to the task of a good challenge like that. It might mean we won't see Powerbook G5s this year, but I believe that it's still very likely we will see it this year. Oppenheimer is just the CFO, he isn't in the position of an engineer who can really say how likely it is to come out this year or not. I think Apple will do everything they can do get it done.

Exactly, nothing of what he said can be taken very seriously either way. The CFO certainly wouldn't make any comment that they are near completion, because it would kill off Powerbook sales even more. Especially, with an impending G4 update; he has to put a sound-byte out there that can make people stop waiting for a G5, and get in on the market now.

[Petrie]

Originally posted by macdaemon:
How about this spring? What�s the problem to change the processor and architecture? MPC8641D 15 Watts-25 Watts, not a problem.

Prototype of PowerBook G4 dual core

I agree about the dual core and wouldn't be at all surprised if they're not letting us on to what's hapening. This whole lawsuit about ThinkSecret, plus releasing a ton of booty at MWSF, would work as wonderful subterfuge, eh?