[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

as far as price.....i think they should have kept the old pricing in line, considering they havent included any adaptors or the Apple remote in the box.

The previous two generations of MacBook and MacBook Pro did not include the remote.

And only the MacBook Pros came with a single DVI-VGA adapter in the box.

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

On a related note, I was debating the MB vs. MBP, when they came out. The dual GPU sold me, but now after using the new MBP I found that the integrated GPU is quite speed even using aperture. so that means the MB would have had the same performance and the MB is a great machine, the small form factor really makes it a great machine to travel with.

That's the problem I have. It really sucks because I've been waiting for Apple to update the Pro for so long, but I got my wife the new Macbook and it performs so well that I don't really need the Pro. But the ONLY thing that is making me still "need" on is Firewire. Outside of that then there really isn't much on the Pro that justifies the $700 price difference. The screen is better but I use a 24" monitor so it doesn't matter. And the 9600M is nice but I'm surprised it only comes with 256MB VRAM (which is a bit low for a $2000 machine)

I'm trying to delay my purchase and see if I can rationalize living without Firewire. But so far then the more I justify Apple's decision, the more I get upset that Apple is making this whole "buying experience" thing such a pain. I've bought Macs for years and this is easily the most frustrating purchasing decision I've had to make.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The previous two generations of MacBook and MacBook Pro did not include the remote.

And only the MacBook Pros came with a single DVI-VGA adapter in the box.

My sis has the late 2007 MacBook(2.2 Ghz SD) and it came with an Apple Remote.

Either way, at the old or new prices, they *should* have included an Apple Remote in the box.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

My sis has the late 2007 MacBook(2.2 Ghz SD) and it came with an Apple Remote.

Ah, sorry - may have been the spring 2008 versions that first dropped the Remote from the box.

At any rate, the MacBooks and Pros haven't shipped with remotes for a while now.

[Hawkeye_a]

Well i caved. Got one cause i couldnt think of a good reason not to and i needed a notebook. impressions to follow in the coming days....

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Well i caved. Got one cause i couldnt think of a good reason not to and i needed a notebook. impressions to follow in the coming days....

what kind did you get?

[BoingoBongo]

The screen really is awful. I've been using my old WhiteBook since I returned the new MB, and the screen is much better. Still not the best viewing angle but much much better, and much less reflective.

Often times with the new MB, I would be looking straight at the screen and I wouldn't even be able to see Safari's tabs near the top. They just looked like solid black.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by BoingoBongo 

The screen really is awful. I've been using my old WhiteBook since I returned the new MB, and the screen is much better. Still not the best viewing angle but much much better, and much less reflective.

Often times with the new MB, I would be looking straight at the screen and I wouldn't even be able to see Safari's tabs near the top. They just looked like solid black.

Wow, that's not the experience I had with the new MBs. I was viewing that at the apple store trying to decide if I wanted a MB or a MBP. I'd view both of the from different angles and such and never incurred the results you mention

[Spheric Harlot]

Previous-generation MacBooks had four different screen models, from different manufacturers, whose quality varied *greatly* from "pretty decent, actually" to "complete ****".

I would be very surprised if this has changed with the new MacBooks. That might account for the differences in perception.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by solofx7 

what kind did you get?

I got the hight end MacBook 13.3" stock model.

Been using it for a few days now, and it's a fine machine.

Display:
i've always had problems with gloss since Apple introduced it a few years ago. i have to admit that i was a bit hesitant to buy this computer because of that.
-This display is bright. i mean really bright. i find using it at 50%-75% brightness works well for me.
-the black bezel definitely helps with the contrast and brightness
-The colors do 'pop' and despite having a lower resolution than my 20" iMac, i can made out more detail on this screen.
-the only problem(minor and not a deal breaker) is that its difficult to see true black... it appears a little washed out.
-Viewing angles are hampered by the reflections on the glass and the difficulty to see true black for some reason. I dont plan on using the laptop from extreme angles, but as a reference, my 20" iMacCD from 2006 does a better job with viewing angles.
-If you hold the MacBook upto your eyes, and your eyes are in level with the keyboard the, screen looks like a 'negative'. It your looking vertically down on the display it just looks washed out. i dont plan on using it like that.
-Incidentally, the actual LCD panel appears to be identical to the late 2007 MacBook as it has an almost identical viewing angles, etc.
-in the end..its a mixed bag. the pros and cons are balanced out imo

Connectivity
-Plugged in my HDD over USB for the first time(it has FW400/800 as well), and it worked just fine and almost as fast.
-I networked my machines directly over GbEthernet, and that was just super fast, i spent a lot less time than i expected transferring over ethernet.
-I also networked the machines over Airport and that was kinda slow, but the most convenient way.

Specs
-boot up time is a few seconds slower than my 20" iMac(CoreDuo 2GBRAM) running Tiger, same networking and apps at launch.
-It feels fast. Apps launch pretty fast. it feels really spiffy. im guessing the 9400M is taking the load off the CPU.
-The reason i got this machine is because i need the portability, not because i need a faster/newer machine. my 2 year old iMac is still plenty fast, and im sure i havent pushed it much (sans video encoding). and im sure the iMac will be good for the next 4-5 years.
-The MacBook will hopefully outlast the iMac. The ability to upgrade the RAM to 4GB and HDD with faster and bigger specs will definitely extend its life.

Controls
-I love the new trackpad
-its my first taste on multi-touch and i love it. 4-fingered gestures for expose is just gravy.
-i got a bluetooth mouse (Kensington SlimBlade Trackball mouse) to use as well (incidentally, it's the only other mouse i found with a 'scroll ball', and there was no way i was buying a Mighty Mouse). it hooekd up just fine and there's no lag or anything. my only complaint about the mouse is that , new out of the box, there appear to be some cosmetic defects on it.
-The keyboard , is backlit (yay!). feels good....thats about it really. not bad, not amazing.

Build
-Beautiful. With every iteration Apple introduces more beautiful products. But this time its a pretty big jump. the videos and pictures dont do it justice.
-it's looks thinner than in the pictures.
-i didnt think i'd like the tapering, but it gives it a more friendly/warm feeling as opposed to sharp edges and corners. (think Aqua buttons in OSX vs button in WinXP).
-my favorite thing about the case is the way the sleep light looks like it's shining through the metal enclosure.
-I do have a couple of concerns....... the hinge is made of plastic. it looks ok, but i hope it doesnt give way. it also looks like the glass on the display is held in place with a rubbery/plastic lining that goes all around it. i hope it sticks.

In conclusion it's a great laptop. To use the car analogies...... PCs are like Toyotas, the new MacBooks are like Mercs and the MacBook Airs are Ferraris. As far as design, it reminds me of Maserati (which would make a great accessory to this MacBook ) . If you need a notebook and you aren't too heavily invested in FW, this is a great machine.

My only real complaint is the fact that i've lost the 'target disk mode' functionality with this machine. i didnt use it all that often, but it did come in handy. Hopefully Apple can come up with a solution over USB2 or Ethernet or something. But im glad i paid more for multi interface HDD enclosures or i wouldnt have been able to justify this purchase.

Cheers.

PS>> if anyone has the Kensington mouse i mentioned, could you have a look at the buttons on the top, up against a light, and see if there appears to be slight indentations where your fingers would rest ? Cheers

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

PS>> if anyone has the Kensington mouse i mentioned, could you have a look at the buttons on the top, up against a light, and see if there appears to be slight indentations where your fingers would rest ? Cheers

great review! i may get a macbook (altho am not happy about the screen, and no FW). meanwhile...what indentation? not sure what u mean. i have that mouse, and really like it...

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

great review! i may get a macbook (altho am not happy about the screen, and no FW). meanwhile...what indentation? not sure what u mean. i have that mouse, and really like it...

Glad you liked the review. ill keep posting my experiences. but yeah i think people are blowing the display issue way out of proportion cause as far as i can tell these are the same displays as before with LED backlight and a glass cover. luckily the brighter LEDs seem to overpower the glare from the glass, so it seems the same if not better than previous MacBook displays, imo. And FW ... yeah.... ill be really ticked off if the next revision gets FW400/800.

Oh the mouse works great. feels great in the hand, and i can actually scroll (unlike with a Might Mouse). When i unboxed it, i inspected it by holding it upto a light(cause its so shiny ), and i noticed there were a couple of symmetrical dents right where ones fingers would rest on the buttons. its sorta like when you leave a CD in the sun too long. nothing major, but it ruins the very smooth surface and shine of the mouse.

Also, ive lowered the mouse's speed to the second last notch in System Preferences, but its still feels a little fast, any idea on how to slow it down a bit more without going to the lowest speed in Preferences ?

Cheers

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Glad you liked the review. ill keep posting my experiences. but yeah i think people are blowing the display issue way out of proportion cause as far as i can tell these are the same displays as before with LED backlight and a glass cover. luckily the brighter LEDs seem to overpower the glare from the glass, so it seems the same if not better than previous MacBook displays, imo.

I think screen complaints are largely dependent on where someone is using their computer. I've been using the wifes new Macbook for a while and the environment completely dictates how I use the thing now. The fluorescent lights at work are terrible with the new screen, but luckily I use an external monitor. But at home I had to move my desk away from the window and reposition some lights in order to see things properly. I'm not as against glossy as some people are, but this "glassy" screen is a whole different experience. That said, I'm still buying one for myself once I figure out if I can live without FW.

Anyway, how do you feel about that trackpad? I was surprised at how intuitive it was at first. But the more I use it the more frustrating it gets. I go back and forth between several laptops and it's driving me nuts because each machine has different tricks to using it. PC has a 2nd button and different scroll controls. Old Macbook has 2-finger tap. And on this then I have to consciously remind myself not to rest my thumb on the "button" area, and in bootcamp it's 3-finger tap to right-click now. I do love the bear-claw style of expose though...

I know it's just a matter of relearning things again, but there is something nice about people just sticking with standards. (Yes, I know I can use a mouse. I do, but for some tasks I prefer a trackpad).

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Also, ive lowered the mouse's speed to the second last notch in System Preferences, but its still feels a little fast, any idea on how to slow it down a bit more without going to the lowest speed in Preferences ?

Cheers

ah, the one 'weird' thing i've gotten used to with the mouse: scrolling speed. no way to control it (altho you might check versiontracker, there are some shareware apps that might help).

[Hawkeye_a]

Oh i meant the speed the mouse cursor moves around the screen. it's pretty fast. i cant believe ive put up with the Might Mouse i got with the imac for like 2 years....i've forgotten how to scroll.

Trackpad ? it's great. i like the size and the feel. I really like the 'bear claw' gestures, i always end up giving them a spin when i get on the machine. but i know what you mean about relearning these things. i hope i eventually get to the point where the multi-touch stuff becomes second nature. right now, im just adjusting to the buttonless clicking. if you do end up getting a mouse, i do recommend the Kensington, it has the 360 scrolling which i really like(and it's much better than the Mighty Mouse scroll thing).

Also, i know there's a separate thread about cases, but im thinking of ordering this one. It lists the maximum dimensions(of the previous gen macbooks). the only one our of bounds is the 'depth', and the new Macbook is like a half a millimeter longer. do you guys reckon the new Macbook can fit in it ?

Cheers

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

ah, the one 'weird' thing i've gotten used to with the mouse: scrolling speed. no way to control it

The "Scrolling Speed" slider works rather well for me:

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The "Scrolling Speed" slider works rather well for me:

this is with the Kensington slimblade trackball mouse...

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh. Sorry. I, er...missed that bit.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Urkel 

I think screen complaints are largely dependent on where someone is using their computer. I've been using the wifes new Macbook for a while and the environment completely dictates how I use the thing now. The fluorescent lights at work are terrible with the new screen, but luckily I use an external monitor. But at home I had to move my desk away from the window and reposition some lights in order to see things properly. I'm not as against glossy as some people are, but this "glassy" screen is a whole different experience. That said, I'm still buying one for myself once I figure out if I can live without FW.

That never occurred to me actually. i've never used a laptop in direct sunlight, so i don't know what to expect. but i did use the MacBook in a store environment with a lot of ugly florescent light, and the gloss didnt bother me (no more than the previous gen MacBooks anyway)... and these screens are brighter cause of the LEDs.

There are a lot of Mac users complaining about the reflectiveness of the new screens after seeing them in store lighting. Im trying to see whats making them so upset, and i cant figure it out. either that or it just doesnt seem like that big a deal to me, i dont know.

To me the bigger issue to overcome was the lack of FW, but after researching it, i found that my camcorder and external HDD support USB2 as well. the only functionality i've lost if target disk mode, which i seldom used.

If you definitely need FW, i suggest going in for the pro. To me, the size+weight+price outweighed the need for FireWire.

Either way, it was terrible making that decision for myself, so ... good luck .

Cheers

[BoingoBongo]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Wow, that's not the experience I had with the new MBs. I was viewing that at the apple store trying to decide if I wanted a MB or a MBP. I'd view both of the from different angles and such and never incurred the results you mention

I think there's definitely some gems out there, but I sure didn't find any. If you manage to get one, it's gotta be an amazing computer, but it's just too much of a crapshoot.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by BoingoBongo 

I think there's definitely some gems out there, but I sure didn't find any. If you manage to get one, it's gotta be an amazing computer, but it's just too much of a crapshoot.

I own a MBP, I'm only relating what I saw at the apple store. I can confirm my MBP is awesome. I was agonizing over which model MBP vs. MB. I opted for the MBP because of the dual GPU. All things being equal, I probably been happy with the MB as well. It felt like I was living at my local apple store as I agonized over which one to get

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

That never occurred to me actually. i've never used a laptop in direct sunlight, so i don't know what to expect. but i did use the MacBook in a store environment with a lot of ugly florescent light, and the gloss didnt bother me (no more than the previous gen MacBooks anyway)... and these screens are brighter cause of the LEDs.

The iMac screen is pretty reflective but since it sits on a stationary desk then once you find the lighting sweet spot you "set it and forget it". But the problem is that this is a portable so variables always change. I relate it to how my wife drives my car and the first thing I have to do is re-adjust the mirrors, seats and air-vents. Sure, it only takes 30 seconds to make the adjustments but that doesn't mean it isn't annoying.



As for brightness. The screens definitely are bright it's both a positive and negative. Pumping up the brightness does help hide your reflection, but that causes the blacks on the standard Macbook screen gets VERY washed out. The Pro and Air screens are definitely much better so apparently they chose to make a quality difference, and that's a shame.

[Scottological]

Has anyone tried a glare screen? I've seen the new one from photodon mentioned, but haven't heard of any users out there. I guess you eliminate the glare, but you lose a little crispness to the image - not much, but a little.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Scottological 

Has anyone tried a glare screen? I've seen the new one from photodon mentioned, but haven't heard of any users out there. I guess you eliminate the glare, but you lose a little crispness to the image - not much, but a little.

apple sells one on the online store, i may try that (since i will probably get a macbook, the closest thing to what i want, screen and no firewire notwithstanding). but i haven't seen it, or read much about how well these things do..

[amazing]

Rob Griffiths wrote a piece about buying refurbs on MacWorld.com, mainly because he wanted a matte screen:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1366...cialdeals.html

"Yes, I know there’s a chance the glossy era may never end…if that turns out to be the case, I guess I’ll take an in-depth look at anti-glare screen filters and see how well they work. Until then, though, I’m going to soldier on with my (used but good as new) 2.6GHz MacBook Pro and its lovely matte screen."

Further down, in responding in the forum, he states:

" Yes, I've now tried both the new MacBook and the new MacBook Pro, and I hate them both. Brilliantly designed machines ruined by their mirror-like screens. The new screens are, if anything, even glossier than the one on my original MacBook.

I really think there's something physiological about the way some of us react to glossy screens. When I see a glossy screen, the slightest reflection is immediately what grabs my attention -- it doesn't matter how bright or engrossing the image on the screen is, when a reflection appears, that's where my eyes move and focus. This makes it incredibly annoying to use such a machine in anything other than a darkened room.

Other people I know who use glossy screened machines have no such reaction to reflections on the screen. I'll be looking at something with them and say "wow, bad reflection, let me move a bit so I can see the screen better" and they'll say "what reflection?" It's like it doesn't even enter their mind that there's a reflection on the screen. For me, though, the only thing I can see is the reflection.

Given that about 40% of the respondents to my poll indicated a desire for matte, I really think Apple should continue to offer both screen types -- everyone would be satisfied with little to no ongoing cost to the company (beyond initial engineering).

-rob."

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Urkel 

As for brightness. The screens definitely are bright it's both a positive and negative. Pumping up the brightness does help hide your reflection, but that causes the blacks on the standard Macbook screen gets VERY washed out. The Pro and Air screens are definitely much better so apparently they chose to make a quality difference, and that's a shame.

I noticed that. AT any brightness level the colors seemed 'washed out'. So i fooled around with the gamma setting in the colorsync preferences (Display preferences), and got it to much more acceptable levels (specifically... blacker blacks).

Which brings me to a general observation about video cards..... for some reason output from nVidia cards always seem to have this washed out look as opposed to Ati cards which seem to have blacker blacks and richer colors. anyone else notice that ?

[issa]

Originally Posted by Urkel 

As for brightness. The screens definitely are bright it's both a positive and negative. Pumping up the brightness does help hide your reflection, but that causes the blacks on the standard Macbook screen gets VERY washed out.

There's also another negative side to the notion of pumping up the brightness in order to overcome glare and reflection. To many folks who work long hours in front of computer displays, increased brightness leads to greater fatigue and eye strain. I for one, keep the brightness level turned down to the lowest notch on my MBP and (external) desktop monitors as much of the time as possible. I only crank it up when necessary for editing photos or other detailed graphic work. And then, only to the level that is necessary.

[Hawkeye_a]

Alrighty...it's been a week. Still liking the macbook a lot. performance is great. the screen, by default does have a washed out look (something ive noticed on Nvidia hardware). So i created a color profite with the gamma set to the PC level as opposed to the Mac level, and the blacks are.....more black ('it's like none...none more black' - Spinal Tap).
And im still using the display at 50%-75% brightness.

Got a small scare the other day when i saw an ant on the keyboard and i freaked out...but i havent seen it since. <phew>

Cheers