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newportnews · Feb 23, 2005, 11:10 AM

Apple is no longer including a Firewire cable in with the new iPods - only USB2.

AM I the only one who thinks this sucks?

USB2 is a fairly new addition to the Mac line while FireWire has been around since the iMac DV.

Busemann · Feb 23, 2005, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by newportnews:
Apple is no longer including a Firewire cable in with the new iPods - only USB2.

AM I the only one who thinks this sucks?

USB2 is a fairly new addition to the Mac line while FireWire has been around since the iMac DV.

FireWire cables sell for $19..

Wiskedjak · Feb 23, 2005, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Busemann:
FireWire cables sell for $19..

None-the-less, Apple has always championed FireWire. To take Apple's hottest selling product and essentially turn it into a USB drive is akin to saying that USB2 is superior to FireWire.

typoon · Feb 23, 2005, 11:25 AM

They should have included this. http://images.apple.com/ipod/images/...wusb042803.jpg

JHromadka · Feb 23, 2005, 11:29 AM

I was surprised to see the drop as well, especially as a laptop user. I can have my mouse and HotSync cable plugged into my Powerbook's USB ports and still have the iPod on Firewire. New iPod users are going to more likely need a USB hub.

Simon · Feb 23, 2005, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by typoon:
They should have included this. http://images.apple.com/ipod/images/...wusb042803.jpg

Yeah definitely. USB-only sucks. My g/f's iMac only has USB1 which is too slow for anything reasonable, so we need to spend another $19 just for the FW cable.

If they want to cut costs, by only selling one cable, they should let you chose which one to include. Of course offering two boxes or CTO would mean less savings for Apple...

Goldfinger · Feb 23, 2005, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by newportnews:
Apple is no longer including a Firewire cable in with the new iPods - only USB2.

AM I the only one who thinks this sucks?

USB2 is a fairly new addition to the Mac line while FireWire has been around since the iMac DV.

You can be sure that it sucks. I was about to order one but without the FW cable and AC adapter I'm going to stay away from it. I just want the better battery actually.

I have a Silver mini right now.

Busemann · 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Goldfinger:
You can be sure that it sucks. I was about to order one but without the FW cable and AC adapter I'm going to stay away from it. I just want the better battery actually.

I have a Silver mini right now.

The old cables are still usable though..

Goldfinger · Feb 23, 2005, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Busemann:
The old cables are still usable though..

Sure, but selling the old iPod without the cables is kinda of stupid unless I can sell it to some mindless PC user who doesn't know of/needs the FW cable and AC adaptor.

jindrich · Feb 23, 2005, 12:33 PM

hey is there any difference in transfer speeds between the firewire and a USB2.0 cable? with a usb2.0 equipped machine like a new powerbook, that is.

it was great to see the mini price falling down to 199, but if what they really did was only to take out included accesories, what a nasty trick. it truly sucks.

did the A/C adapter come included with the mini before?

Goldfinger · Feb 23, 2005, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by jindrich:
did the A/C adapter come included with the mini before?

yes

theJoKell · Feb 23, 2005, 01:41 PM

This really sucks for those of us who don't have a new Mac. I have an iBook 700 G3 and was waiting for the 6 gig Mini. Now instead of $250 it's going to cost me $270. Kinda crappy...

Spliff · Feb 23, 2005, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by newportnews:
Apple is no longer including a Firewire cable in with the new iPods - only USB2.

AM I the only one who thinks this sucks?

USB2 is a fairly new addition to the Mac line while FireWire has been around since the iMac DV.

What a stupid decision. I've got a G3 iMac and was going to pick up a new iPod mini. Now I have to shell out extra for the f**king firewire cable.

Brien · Feb 23, 2005, 02:31 PM

Thankfully I can use my old firewire cable from the 3g I currently have (going to get a new 30gb photo, only 300 with student discount). And IIRC, Firewire 400 and USB 2 are pretty much equally matched.

efuseakay · Feb 23, 2005, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Busemann:
The old cables are still usable though..

A lot of good that will do for someone that's never owned an iPod before. Apple really, really, really blew it this time I'm afraid.

efuseakay · Feb 23, 2005, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Brien:
Thankfully I can use my old firewire cable from the 3g I currently have (going to get a new 30gb photo, only 300 with student discount). And IIRC, Firewire 400 and USB 2 are pretty much equally matched.

On paper, yes... but in reality, USB 2 is significantly slower than Firewire.

Nodnarb · Feb 23, 2005, 03:47 PM

It's funny because when I bought my first iPod a few years ago (it was a 3G) it only came with firewire and I had to go out and buy a USB cable becuase I only had a PC (now I have an iBook.) They completely switched that around though.

porieux · Feb 23, 2005, 03:52 PM

Seems Apple has really screwed up here. See my thread also.

PowerTower Fan · Feb 23, 2005, 05:10 PM

Apple's tech specs say the iPod photo comes with an AC adapter but no firewire cable. So does this mean you have to make an extra purchase for the firewire cable just to be able to use the included adapter?

typoon · Feb 23, 2005, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by PowerTower Fan:
Apple's tech specs say the iPod photo comes with an AC adapter but no firewire cable. So does this mean you have to make an extra purchase for the firewire cable just to be able to use the included adapter?

No. It sounds like it comes with a USB AC adapter like the one you can get for the iPod Shuffle.

discotronic · Feb 23, 2005, 05:33 PM

As a long time Mac user I feel this is a stab in the back. It seems like Apple is going with the majority of iPod owners which happen to be PC owners. Firewire isn't something you find on a new PC for the most part. USB 2 is however. Cutting cost while pleasing the majority seems to be the word of the day. In the process it is screwing a ton of Mac users.

typoon · Feb 23, 2005, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by discotronic:
As a long time Mac user I feel this is a stab in the back. It seems like Apple is going with the majority of iPod owners which happen to be PC owners. Firewire isn't something you find on a new PC for the most part. USB 2 is however. Cutting cost while pleasing the majority seems to be the word of the day. In the process it is screwing a ton of Mac users.

Yes and no. Since all NEW Macs come with USB 2 they aren't really screwing Mac Users. Yet in a way they are because the majority of those using older machines DON'T have USB2 and are slighted by this.

turtle777 · Feb 23, 2005, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Goldfinger:
Sure, but selling the old iPod without the cables is kinda of stupid unless I can sell it to some mindless PC user who doesn't know of/needs the FW cable and AC adaptor.

Well, Apple hopes that this mindless PC user accounts for 90% of their sales...

-t

turtle777 · Feb 23, 2005, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by efuseakay:
A lot of good that will do for someone that's never owned an iPod before. Apple really, really, really blew it this time I'm afraid.

Of what ?

Your own stupidity and inability to purchase an extra FW cable ?

-t

Phoible · Feb 23, 2005, 07:34 PM

So the 6GB iPod mini is the same price as the 20GB iPod?
Considering that the 20GB comes with the FW cable and AC adapter, which costs $50 to add to the mini

crooner · Feb 23, 2005, 09:24 PM

How anyone could defend Apple's bonehead decision to not include FireWire cabling with the new line-up is ludicrous.

This is a no-brainer, folks.

I was all set to place an order for a new 6GB mini. Now I have to rethink things.

Can someone tell me... in order to use a new 'Pod with a FireWire cable must I also purchase the model-specific dock? Can I just connect the 'Pod directly to my Mac with a standard FireWire cable, therefore bypassing the need for a dock? If not, then suddenly I'm looking at paying for a FireWire cable AND a dock? Forget it.

Insulting.

TailsToo · Feb 23, 2005, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
None-the-less, Apple has always championed FireWire. To take Apple's hottest selling product and essentially turn it into a USB drive is akin to saying that USB2 is superior to FireWire.

No, it just means that Apple is admiting that most iPod buyers are Windows users and are using USB instead of FireWire.

TailsToo · Feb 23, 2005, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by crooner:
How anyone could defend Apple's bonehead decision to not include FireWire cabling with the new line-up is ludicrous.

This is a no-brainer, folks.

I was all set to place an order for a new 6GB mini. Now I have to rethink things.

Can someone tell me... in order to use a new 'Pod with a FireWire cable must I also purchase the model-specific dock? Can I just connect the 'Pod directly to my Mac with a standard FireWire cable, therefore bypassing the need for a dock? If not, then suddenly I'm looking at paying for a FireWire cable AND a dock? Forget it.

Insulting.

Simple! As I said in the last post, most iPod buyers are PC users who probably do not have FireWire. It's less expensive for Apple to just include a single USB cable in the box rather than one of each connector type. USB will work with Mac and PC both.

Take a close look at what's included in the box, and you will notice that other things are also missing with the new iPods.

This is how Apple can afford to drop the prices (especially on the Photos) and still make good money.

If a cable cost them a dollar * say 3 million units, well, that's a lot of dough!

PurpleGiant · Feb 23, 2005, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by crooner:
Can someone tell me... in order to use a new 'Pod with a FireWire cable must I also purchase the model-specific dock? Can I just connect the 'Pod directly to my Mac with a standard FireWire cable, therefore bypassing the need for a dock? If not, then suddenly I'm looking at paying for a FireWire cable AND a dock? Forget it.

You just need the firewire cable. You can use that to plug your iPod straight into your computer. You don't even need to spend the money on the Apple one, just get a cheapo one from ebay for a few dollars.

chabig · Feb 23, 2005, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Spliff:
What a stupid decision. I've got a G3 iMac and was going to pick up a new iPod mini. Now I have to shell out extra for the f**king firewire cable.

A f**cking firewire cable is not required. The regular iPod firewire cable will do.

chabig · Feb 23, 2005, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by crooner:
Can someone tell me... in order to use a new 'Pod with a FireWire cable must I also purchase the model-specific dock? Can I just connect the 'Pod directly to my Mac with a standard FireWire cable, therefore bypassing the need for a dock?

You don't need the dock, just a cable. I think the docks are neat but I've never used mine because I keep my iPod in a case.

Chris

Spliff · Feb 23, 2005, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by chabig:
A f**cking firewire cable is not required. The regular iPod firewire cable will do.

Really? I'm quite partial to the f**cking brand of cables.

Does anyone know if the new iPod mini will sync with and charge from the pathetic USB 1.1 port that I have on my iMac?

chabig · Feb 23, 2005, 10:25 PM

I've tried the f**cking firewire cables. They're not all they're cracked up to be.

chabig · Feb 23, 2005, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Spliff:
Does anyone know if the new iPod mini will sync with and charge from the pathetic USB 1.1 port that I have on my iMac?

Just guessing but I'd say syncing ought to work for sure. Charging works with high power ports but not low power ports.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61935
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93845

Chris

CatOne · Feb 23, 2005, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by crooner:
How anyone could defend Apple's bonehead decision to not include FireWire cabling with the new line-up is ludicrous.

This is a no-brainer, folks.

I was all set to place an order for a new 6GB mini. Now I have to rethink things.

Can someone tell me... in order to use a new 'Pod with a FireWire cable must I also purchase the model-specific dock? Can I just connect the 'Pod directly to my Mac with a standard FireWire cable, therefore bypassing the need for a dock? If not, then suddenly I'm looking at paying for a FireWire cable AND a dock? Forget it.

Insulting.

No, you don't need the dock. And you can use an old firewire cable, you can use a "PocketDock" (search for it on the Apple Store) with any 6 pin cable, and save a buck. I use one, it works great.

ryaxnb · Feb 23, 2005, 10:43 PM

Since the B&W G3. This does suck.

crooner · Feb 23, 2005, 10:57 PM

freakin' double post.

sorry.

crooner · Feb 23, 2005, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by CatOne:
No, you don't need the dock. And you can use an old firewire cable, you can use a "PocketDock" (search for it on the Apple Store) with any 6 pin cable, and save a buck. I use one, it works great.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

Thanks, man. Great tip!

For those interested:
Here you go.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Feb 24, 2005, 01:04 AM

I think this is pretty retarded also, almost everyone I know with an iPod doesn't have USB but does have firewire.

Eriamjh · Feb 24, 2005, 08:13 AM

Wait a minute. I have a 3G iPod and I bought the USB2/FW combo cable from apple because I wanted to see if I could use the iPod's HD at work (PC).

This cable allows USB2 transferring and FW transferring (although I have never used the FW side to syncing). But the 3G iPods can't charge over USB.

Can this cable charge a 4G iPod over USB? If so, then why doesn't Apple include this double cable with the new iPods?

I must be missing something here.

Randman · Feb 24, 2005, 08:41 AM

Are the docks still Firewire?

PurpleGiant · Feb 24, 2005, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
Are the docks still Firewire?

I have never purchased a dock separately, but perhaps they don't include the cable? The back of the dock uses a 'dock connector', so perhaps you just use whichever cable you want with it.

joelcpa · Feb 24, 2005, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by porieux:
See my thread also.

Yeah, like I really want to read more bitching from people who are gonna show Apple by not buying an iPod over a stupid $19 cable...

joelcpa · Feb 24, 2005, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by crooner:
I was all set to place an order for a new 6GB mini. Now I have to rethink things.

Oh well, only 3,999,999 iPods sold this quarter.

typoon · Feb 24, 2005, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Wait a minute. I have a 3G iPod and I bought the USB2/FW combo cable from apple because I wanted to see if I could use the iPod's HD at work (PC).

This cable allows USB2 transferring and FW transferring (although I have never used the FW side to syncing). But the 3G iPods can't charge over USB.

Can this cable charge a 4G iPod over USB? If so, then why doesn't Apple include this double cable with the new iPods?

I must be missing something here.

Yes on the 4G iPods it charges over USB2 cable. I was wondering the same thing. They should include that cable then it would save space and you could choose which connection you wanted to use.

waffffffle · Feb 24, 2005, 11:51 AM

Comp Geeks has all sorts of generic-brand iPod cables for cheap:

http://www.geeks.com/products.asp?ca...PodAccessories

Those retractable ones look cool.

york28 · Feb 25, 2005, 04:13 AM

I don't have any numbers right here, but I recall that Firewire is 400Mb/s stream, and USB2 is 480 Mb/s burst, giving Firewire the edge for file transferring. I also recall that even the newest G5's get crappier USB2 speed than PCs, for whatever reason. The real issue is all of the Mac users that are going to need a Firewire cable.

I don't really care since I already have an iPod, and I don't know if I'll ever buy another, but does Apple really need to boost their profits by the extra dollar or so that its costs them to provide a Firewire cable?

So Apple loses a point for this BS, and gains one for adding features to the older iPod firmware.

fhoubi · Feb 26, 2005, 02:45 PM

Mistake or not, you CANNOT buy a firewire power adapter in the german & dutch applestore anymore!

Mithras · Feb 26, 2005, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by TailsToo:
Simple! As I said in the last post, most iPod buyers are PC users who probably do not have FireWire. It's less expensive for Apple to just include a single USB cable in the box rather than one of each connector type. USB will work with Mac and PC both.

Take a close look at what's included in the box, and you will notice that other things are also missing with the new iPods.

This is how Apple can afford to drop the prices (especially on the Photos) and still make good money.

If a cable cost them a dollar * say 3 million units, well, that's a lot of dough!

Well yes, but this means that Apple is just another PC peripheral company screwing Mac users. It's rather ironic.

chabig · Feb 26, 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
Well yes, but this means that Apple is just another PC peripheral company screwing Mac users. It's rather ironic.

Apple is not a PC peripheral company, but they do compete with them. Keeping costs and prices down makes a lot of sense.

Chris