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dazzla · Apr 23, 2006, 06:33 AM

Configuring a 12" iBook on the Apple store, I can't see what would make that have more than 1 type of mobo. You configure memory and HD and that's it. Assuming there will be a single 13" form factor for this "Macbook" why would there be more than 1 type of mobo? Same with the 12" PB, only drive, memory and HD configurable. None of those would warrant a completely different mobo.

harrisjamieh · Apr 23, 2006, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by dazzla

Configuring a 12" iBook on the Apple store, I can't see what would make that have more than 1 type of mobo. You configure memory and HD and that's it. Assuming there will be a single 13" form factor for this "Macbook" why would there be more than 1 type of mobo? Same with the 12" PB, only drive, memory and HD configurable. None of those would warrant a completely different mobo.

A different graphics chip would require a slightly different mobo, as the graphics chips in macs (apart from the PMs) have always (maybe a few old exceptions) been souldered onto the mobo, so if one model had intel integrated, and the other an ATi something or other, the mobos will be slightly different.

Simon · Apr 23, 2006, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by dazzla

Configuring a 12" iBook on the Apple store, I can't see what would make that have more than 1 type of mobo. You configure memory and HD and that's it. Assuming there will be a single 13" form factor for this "Macbook" why would there be more than 1 type of mobo? Same with the 12" PB, only drive, memory and HD configurable. None of those would warrant a completely different mobo.

Obviously. But the point is previously Apple had three different portable motherboards on the low end (12" iB, 14" iB, 12" PB), and with something like I suggested above, they'd only have two (low end MB and high end MB).

dazzla · Apr 23, 2006, 08:01 AM

Ok, I can see where you're coming from now. Yeah, it's a grey are though, the distinction between a new 13" iBook and a 13" MBP if they do co-exist. Or even if there is a higher end iBook with dedicated graphics and a core duo CPU, that'll tread a bit on the 15" MBP.

All I can say is it's good times

galarneau · Apr 23, 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Anyways, my iBook is now with its new owner

Did youi eBay it? Take much of a loss? I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my 12" 1.33/1G/100G

slugslugslug · Apr 23, 2006, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Stop guessing! This thread is going round and round in circles, with the same people repdicting the same things!

So stop reading it. I mean, it's just a thread in a forum; you really needn't get worked up about it. I personally find this thread and other pure-speculation mega-threads thoroughly entertaining (and am a little bummed that my "One True Video iPod" thread died out)

Originally Posted by Big Mac

The iBook will have dedicated graphics. It would look quite stupid for Apple to give the iMac a fine GPU and then to turn around and screw iBook buyers.

Except that it's likely a majority of potential iBook buyers wouldn't notice the difference or care. I don't think that particular public perception is gonna be taken into account much in Apple's decision.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Anyways, my iBook is now with its new owner...

I thought you were gonna wait for Blu-Ray to get a new laptop. Anticipation get the better of you?

harrisjamieh · Apr 23, 2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

So stop reading it. I mean, it's just a thread in a forum; you really needn't get worked up about it.

My point is, that users *cough* Simon *cough* have posted 4 different "OK, so here's what I think.." posts, which is a bit overkill. I too enjoy a bit of speculation as much as the next guy, but some people get a bit too excited...

im_noahselby · Apr 23, 2006, 01:49 PM

There is nothing wrong with getting excited about Apple's upcoming products. Part of what this forum is all about is getting excited about Apple's products and thats why we come here. It's not like Simon is being disruptive to the board. He is contributing his ideas, and there is nothing wrong with that here. I say to all members: keep those predictions coming!

Noah

Eug Wanker · Apr 23, 2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by galarneau

Did youi eBay it? Take much of a loss? I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my 12" 1.33/1G/100G

No. Sold it to somebody I know. It was a reasonable deal for both of us. The buyer got a good deal, and I didn't have to worry about eBay fees, shipping, and untrustworthy eBayers and all that.

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

I thought you were gonna wait for Blu-Ray to get a new laptop. Anticipation get the better of you?

Well, I figured that even in the outside chance that the next Mac laptops got Blu-ray, it's gonna be quite a while until Blu-ray is affordable in a laptop. For example, the desktop Blu-ray drive from Panasonic is gonna cost $850.

Either I was going to buy AppleCare for this laptop and wait a long time for inexpensive Blu-ray, or else just sell it to someone else next month anyway and get its Intelified replacement (or possible a dual-core MacBook Pro) since I've been itching to try out an Intel Mac. So, when I heard my friend needed a laptop quickly I thought why not? Boot Camp and Parallels also helped push me to decide not to wait. I run Quicken for Windows, and VPC is extremely slow.

mduell · Apr 23, 2006, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Here's my prediction: The iBook will have dedicated graphics. It would look quite stupid for Apple to give the iMac a fine GPU and then to turn around and screw iBook buyers.

Just like they screwed for how long by leaving the iBook with the 9200 while Tiger Core Graphics requires something better.

I think the $999-1099 base model will have GMA950 and the $1299-1699 better model will have X300 or X1300 (I'd prefer 7400, but Apple has swung toward ATi).

Originally Posted by Simon

Here's my current guess. 2 MacBook configs, both with 13" widescreens, 512MB RAM built in, 5400rpm HDDs, APX/BT ready, and no expansion slot.

802.11a/b/g and BT 2.0 will be built-in, not ready, since they're already built-into the current iBooks.

Simon · Apr 24, 2006, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

802.11a/b/g and BT 2.0 will be built-in, not ready, since they're already built-into the current iBooks.

Which is what I wanted to express. Bad wording.

Gamoe · Apr 24, 2006, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

I too enjoy a bit of speculation as much as the next guy, but some people get a bit too excited...

Are the MacBooks here yet?. . . Are the MacBooks here yet?. . . Are the MacBooks here yet?. . . Are the MacBooks here yet?. . .

Simon · Apr 24, 2006, 02:54 AM

This board and this thread in particular are for speculation, rumors, guesses, discussions about upcoming products. Of course nobody has hard info. And we won't until the product is announced and all the fun of guessing is over. If you don't like getting excited about it and playing the guessing game, you might want to stop reading this thread.

For all others, keep them coming!

Gamoe · Apr 24, 2006, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

This board and this thread in particular are for speculation, rumors, guesses, discussions about upcoming products.

Hehe. In all fairness, I do know what harrisjamieh means. I also prefer more info and more "educated guesses", but in the absence of that, we can either let it go or continue with wild speculation. I do think the latter is more enjoyable.

Eug Wanker · Apr 24, 2006, 08:33 AM

Could today be the day?

Eug Wanker · Apr 24, 2006, 08:46 AM

Nope! 17" MacBook Pro.

blackbird_1.0 · Apr 24, 2006, 09:29 AM

I know.

Eug Wanker · 05:36 PM

OK, the iBook 1.33 12" with Radeon 9550 is now 272 days old, which means that it's only another week or so until for an Intel MacBook to hit the full 40 weeks gestation.

A new 13" to be born Tuesday May 2?

Actually, while I had been originally guessing a May release, I wonder if it may just be some time in late June, shortly before NECC 2006, which is in the first week of July. Apple will be there, and it'd really be nice for them if they could bring a big display of 13" MacBooks with them. However, I realize these conference dates don't mean much of course, considering last year Apple released the updated iBooks a month after the conference.

EDIT:

Here are the previous iceBook release dates:

July 2005 - 12" G4 1.33, 14" G4 1.42, both with Radeon 9550 (Core Image)
Oct 2004 - 12" G4 1.2, 14" G4 1.33
Apr 2004 - 12" G4 1.07, 14" G4 1.2
Oct 2003 - 12" G4 800, 14" G4 1.0
Apr 2003 - 12"/14" G3 900
Nov 2002 - 12"/14" G3 800
May 2002 - 12"/14" G3 700 with Radeon (Quartz Extreme)
Jan 2002 - 14" G3 600 with Radeon (Quartz Extreme)
Oct 2001 - 12" G3 600
May 2001 - 12" G3 500

We're overdue... Here's hoping for May...

EDIT again:

I almost forgot... The current 12" PowerBook was released January 2005. That makes it 15 months old... LONG overdue for an update. (The October revision of the 12" PowerBook doesn't count. Basically nothing really important changed.)

mgl · Apr 24, 2006, 06:27 PM

I think the iBook replacement may be imminent. Apple discontinued the PowerBook G4 today. It's gone from the online store. However, the hardware page on apple.com still refers to it and the PowerBook G4 page still talks about both the 12 and 17" models. This page was redone with the 15" model was dropped, removing the 15". Apple could easily have done the same this time but they chose not to. The only 2 reasons they wouldn't have is 1: they made a mistake. It's been known to happen but this is a pretty big one. or 2: The 12" is due to be dropped in the next week. Why bother slicing up new images to remove the 17" if the entire page is going to be deleted very soon?

If this isn't a mistake, I would assume that the MacBook is due this week. If the page is still up at the end of this week, I'd chalk it up to a mistake. However, Apple doesn't usually allow mistakes to go that long so either way we should know why the 17" wasn't removed from this page within a couple of days.

Voch · Apr 24, 2006, 08:08 PM

I'm seriously wantin' a 13.3" Core Duo MacBook now after simulating such a screen on my G4 PowerBook.

I'm chiefly a Java developer, so I took a screenshot of my Eclipse setup running full-screen minus 54 pixels at the bottom (1280x800), scaled it 87.5% (13.3" divided by 15.2") and set it as my centered desktop image. Discounting the blurryness of the scaled image (wouldn't happen at native LCD resolution) it'd be the PERFECT form factor for me to do my Java work.

I seriously hope this 13.3" widescreen display stuff pans out and it's a good quality display. It'd be the perfect portable for me.

Voch

DogDay · Apr 24, 2006, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by mgl

However, the hardware page on apple.com still refers to it and the PowerBook G4 page still talks about both the 12 and 17" models.

I don't really see where it talks about the 17" model on the "hardware" page...is this the page that you go to when you just click on the Powerbook G4 from the regular store welcome page? Anyway, I hope everyone is right...I have been wanting an iBook with any kind of Intel chip in it for a while now, and I have been constantly checking those random Apple rumor sites for any glimpse of hope. When I clicked on the store this morning and saw that it was different I was SO excited for the iBook to be out, but it was just that damn 17" pro garbage... Anyway, I found this listserv and I was so happy to find people who were just as crazy about this as I am. I'm a chemical engineering, and all that got me through my heat and mass take home final this past week was the thought of getting this damn computer...so yea, those people who say that it won't come out until July need to seriously shut up and stop ruining my day...for real

TheoCryst · Apr 24, 2006, 10:28 PM

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/ <- The "hardware" page that was previously mentioned.

Does anyone remember how long the 15" PowerBook was listed on this page after it had been discontinued in the store? This is very promising, and I hope it's not a false lead... I'd love a 13"er!

mgl · Apr 24, 2006, 10:40 PM

Last time, the PBook G4 15" wasn't discontinued right away so you can't compare.

This is the hardware page. Note the 17" reference.
http://www.apple.com/hardware/

This is the PBook G4 specs page with the 17" configuration:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html
When you click the config link to the store, the PowerBook page only has the 12".

And of course this is the PBook G4 17" product page:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html

Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday will be our day and Apple just didn't want to announce a consumer laptop at the pro show alongside the MBP 17".

DogDay · Apr 24, 2006, 11:25 PM

1. Thanks, that is weird, I didn't notice that before.

2. I meant "chemical engineering student" in my previous response, in case anyone was wondering, which I'm sure they weren't.

Gamoe · Apr 24, 2006, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by MSchen01

2. I meant "chemical engineering student" in my previous response, in case anyone was wondering, which I'm sure they weren't.

You can just edit the post afterwards for that kind for thing.

Oh, and welcome MSchen01. There are also good threads on this on the board currently linked in my sig. :-)

volcano · Apr 25, 2006, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I almost forgot... The current 12" PowerBook was released January 2005. That makes it 15 months old... LONG overdue for an update. (The October revision of the 12" PowerBook doesn't count. Basically nothing really important changed.)

Try this - nothing changed at all. There was no revision of the 12" Powerbook in October; it was still the same lackluster model from January 2005.

Eug Wanker · Apr 25, 2006, 02:10 AM

If the MacBook really does have to have Intel integrated graphics, perhaps it will get the new Intel G965 chipset? It's supposed to be a major improvement over GMA950.

G965 is supposed to be out in Q2 2006, and it's supposed to get hardware T&L, OpenGL 2.0, and H.264 decode acceleration.

mduell · Apr 25, 2006, 02:29 AM

I think G965 is a no-brainer for the next release of the Mac mini, and possibly the reason the 13" rumors keep saying it's getting delayed.

Eug Wanker · Apr 25, 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

I think G965 is a no-brainer for the next release of the Mac mini, and possibly the reason the 13" rumors keep saying it's getting delayed.

I'm still hoping for ATI's Radeon X300 (or ideally, the X1300).

The Inq: Intel's integrated DX10 part [G965] will be slow as a dog

Since all the company cares about is the size of the die, do not expect spectacular features or performance from the integrated part - although it does support Shader Model 4.0 and is capable of addressing 256MB of system memory - all that you will get is a two-pipeline GPU equipped with four to six Shader units.

Even by today's standards, neither four or six Shader units are something special - you can already find more powerful chips in stores - the performance of G965 will be way below the levels of the Radeon X1300 and GeForce 7300. While X1300 and 7300 do not have the feature set for the DirectX 10 API, the performance level of these GPUs is still way above that of the upcoming Intel part.

One developer of a DX10 game planned to come out in fall of 2007 told us: "We can all do a fallback to SM3.0 or 2.0 for slower graphics parts. However, the product has to have horsepower - judging by our previous experiences with Intel's integrated hell, we'll just spend more man-hours to make our game run faster than a slideshow."

DogDay · 12:42 AM

If Apple wants to debut the (MacBook?) at a media-covered event, they would probably wait for the National Educational Computing Conference (that Apple is attending), which isn't until July 5-7 (damn! damn! DAMN!). I mean, this product has a huge student market, so it would make sense, as much as I wish this weren't true. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers...

EDIT: whoops...didnt see Eug already commented on this...only his comment was much better...so you should read that one instead haha

im_noahselby · Apr 25, 2006, 10:48 PM

I dont know about everyone else, but I still think the announcement will come sometime in May.

Noah

ctj · Apr 26, 2006, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by mgl

I think the iBook replacement may be imminent. Apple discontinued the PowerBook G4 today. It's gone from the online store.

Uhm... looking at the Apple Store just now, I see the PowerBook G4 12" in all of its glory, all by itself. Did I miss something?

EDIT: I can't type...

DogDay · Apr 26, 2006, 12:28 AM

I agree with people saying that there will be two types of the new "iMac" 13.3 inch...one would be the lower grade model, and the other one would be the pro model, which would replace the last remaining Powerbook G4 (12in).

mgl · Apr 26, 2006, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by ctj

Uhm... looking at the Apple Store just now, I see the PowerBook G4 12" in all of its glory, all by itself. Did I miss something?

The store sells only the 12", but the marketing pages (click hardware in the nav bar) describe the 12 and discontinued 17" still.

If it were a mistake, you'd think it would have been fixed by now.

turnedge762 · Apr 26, 2006, 02:41 PM

It seems like people tend to believe what they want to believe. Therefor I'm going to have to agree, the 13.3" MacBook will come in May

BTW, it's fixed on Apple's website now, only lists the specs for the 12" PowerBook.

DogDay · Apr 26, 2006, 04:09 PM

actually when i click on the "technical specifications" link it says that the page can't be found....strange

mgl · Apr 26, 2006, 07:40 PM

It's kind of funny, they have removed the 17" G4 on the US site but not from the Cnd site. I guess that will come tomorrow. This is obviously not a high priority for Apple. Strange.

Anyway, the fact that they've removed it and went to the bother of creating a new 12" page (and it is new, because they removed the multi-page section and replaced it with a single 12" page) shows that the page will be around for long enough to justify the effort.

Back to May or June predictions.

Frans · Apr 26, 2006, 10:29 PM

After reading this whole thread in te past hour I must say: we, the owners of 12" Mac's, are the most patient Mac-fans on the planet. My best bet is the last report on AppleInsider, which speaks of a may release of the 13". The article on macosXrumors.com about a 12" lightweight are new to me, that's what I've been lusting for since the moment I switched to Mac. Because those Sony Vaio's are really great machines for travelling, they just are terrible to work with because of Windows and the silly Sony-tweaks/drivers and horrible Sony-software.

After the Mac Mini it's time for the Mac Light, I say....

slugslugslug · Apr 27, 2006, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Frans

we, the owners of 12" Mac's, are the most patient Mac-fans on the planet.

Maybe I'm so impatient because I have a 15" Ti right now. Actually, May's gonna be an expensive month for me, so more delays are okay for me. I just want something by late Summer (although now I'm kinda wondering if I should wait for 802.11n, since after the MacBook, I probably won't be buying a Mac again for another ~2 years..

My best bet is the last report on AppleInsider, which speaks of a may release of the 13". The article on macosXrumors.com about a 12" lightweight are new to me, that's what I've been lusting for...

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I don't think there's any precedent for macosxrumors having their own "very reliable" source, and that rumor hasn't popped up at the "better" rumor sites (N.B. macrumors.com (without the osx) used to have their own sources and were the only site to predict the intro of the 12" and 17" PBs; macosrumors (without the x) has just been Makin' Sh** Up for years)

After the Mac Mini it's time for the Mac Light, I say....

If it does happen, I think they'd call it the MacBook mini to be consistent. "Light" and "Lite" are for food.

Voch · Apr 27, 2006, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

I just want something by late Summer (although now I'm kinda wondering if I should wait for 802.11n, since after the MacBook, I probably won't be buying a Mac again for another ~2 years.

I'm hoping that the current MBPs and future MacBooks will be 802.11n upgradable, at least unofficially. Is it not true that the wireless cards in the MPB are simply industry-standard miniPCIe cards? Unless there's an antenna issue...

Voch

DogDay · Apr 27, 2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Frans

Because those Sony Vaio's are really great machines for travelling, they just are terrible to work with because of Windows and the silly Sony-tweaks/drivers and horrible Sony-software.

The three people I know who have recently gotten Sony computers have absolutely hated them. They have all sent the computers back several times, gotten several hard drive replacements, and on top of that the sony support SUCKS big time. They are SO rude and the "three day guarantee" for service simply means that they will respond to your first call within three business days and it will probably be weeks before you get any help. Two of those friends literally threw the computers out the window and got apples, and my sister (the other one) had to get a separate laptop to use when the sony one breaks (which is quite often)...

slugslugslug · Apr 27, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Voch

Is it not true that the wireless cards in the MPB are simply industry-standard miniPCIe cards?

I don't know. I guess I assumed, with all this talk about the WiFi being part of the Intel chipset, that there was no card at all, but that the circuitry in question was soldered onto the logic board. I could go look it up, I guess, but I imagine some more-encyclopedic member will pop in here with the answer soon enough..

Voch · Apr 27, 2006, 11:55 AM

This iFixIt guide page mentions an "AirPort board" and includes a picture. I assume it's the one on the left side of the image with the two antenna connectors as it includes the Bluetooth too.

I'm still hunting for what connector standard it uses, if any. I swear I heard that it was mini PCI Express but can't seem to verify it...

slugslugslug · Apr 27, 2006, 01:13 PM

Interesting. From the schematic diagram on that site, it sure looks like the WiFi circuitry is on the PCIe bus. But whether it's a standard connector or something proprietary to the chipset/mobo remains to be seen. I couldn't figure out what the Airport board actually looks like in all that...

mduell · Apr 27, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Voch

I'm hoping that the current MBPs and future MacBooks will be 802.11n upgradable, at least unofficially. Is it not true that the wireless cards in the MPB are simply industry-standard miniPCIe cards? Unless there's an antenna issue...

Originally Posted by Voch

This iFixIt guide page mentions an "AirPort board" and includes a picture. I assume it's the one on the left side of the image with the two antenna connectors as it includes the Bluetooth too.

I'm still hunting for what connector standard it uses, if any. I swear I heard that it was mini PCI Express but can't seem to verify it...

I believe it's a miniPCIe card with both the Airport (3945ABG?) and BlueTooth chipset.

harrisjamieh · Apr 28, 2006, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

I believe it's a miniPCIe card with both the Airport (3945ABG?) and BlueTooth chipset.

Just to be a bit thick, why would it need to be miniPCIe. As I understand it, PCIe differs from PCI only in the way that it is a lot faster. For wireless & bluetooth, surely this extra speed is not needed?

Voch · Apr 28, 2006, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Just to be a bit thick, why would it need to be miniPCIe. As I understand it, PCIe differs from PCI only in the way that it is a lot faster. For wireless & bluetooth, surely this extra speed is not needed?

Probably because "it's there already" for the rest of the motherboard.

No need for a second bus.

slugslugslug · Apr 28, 2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Voch

This iFixIt guide page mentions an "AirPort board" and includes a picture. I assume it's the one on the left side of the image with the two antenna connectors as it includes the Bluetooth too.

...

Originally Posted by mduell

I believe it's a miniPCIe card with both the Airport (3945ABG?) and BlueTooth chipset.

Actually, if you go through that whole take-apart guide, they claim that there's a separate board for Bluetooth.

danengel · Apr 28, 2006, 01:26 PM

Two thoughts about a lightweight 13.3" iBook/MacBook:

1. I checked the prices of the lightweight Sony Vaios (SZ and TX series). They're soo expensive. Is this because the market volume is smaller, or because light parts actually are more expensive? I would love a lightweight MacBook, but I'm not willing to pay as much as for a Vaio TX.

2. Wouldn't a lightweight MacBook be too big a competition for the 15" MacBook?

Voch · Apr 28, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by danengel

1. I checked the prices of the lightweight Sony Vaios (SZ and TX series). They're soo expensive. Is this because the market volume is smaller, or because light parts actually are more expensive? I would love a lightweight MacBook, but I'm not willing to pay as much as for a Vaio TX.

2. Wouldn't a lightweight MacBook be too big a competition for the 15" MacBook?

I think both of these can be solved with some strategic feature cuts on Apple's part (less expensive LCD, less-expensive GPU or GMA 950, excluding the ExpressCard slot, etc., like the iBook G4-versus-PowerBook G4) and the supposed forthcoming Core Duo processor price cuts/speed bumps.

I'd say Apple is waiting for the MBP and Mac mini sales to cool off (maybe they have sales goals of some kind of the high-end portable and the low-end desktop before they release a middle-of-the-road portable like a MacBook, which would make sense), the purported Core Duo processor price cuts/speed hikes, and the educational buying season to get into full swing.

And...yes...the waiting is driving me nuts too.

I could have a refurb MBP in my hands in a few days but I just want to wait a little longer. But when it starts to get really warm out and I want to work on a Mac portable in my sunroom I hope to have something faster than my TiBook to use.