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booboo · 07:58 AM

I'm thinking of buying a G5 2.0 DC - i.e. the new entry-level PowerMac. I'm really hoping a few of the previous revision's issues are fixesd . . .

If there's anyone who had a previous Rev A, B or C G5 who now has one of these new machines, would you kindly answer me a couple of questions?

If you're in a quiet environment, can you hear high-pitched 'chirps' from the G5's case (most audible near the bottom of the front and/or rear of the case)? http://http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=259781

Have the slow FireWire 800, and general FireWire (dropped packet) issues been resolved?

Does the new model produce less heat than the previous revisions?

Is there a constantly changing whine from the some of the paired fans beating in and out of phase with each other - not loud but very annoying?

Is it still possible to add more drives through the use of a 3rd-party bracket, or has the internal layout changed to preclude this?

Thanks for your help.

booboo · Oct 28, 2005, 07:53 AM

OK I called Apple Tech Support and I was told that there are no hardware issues with the PSU in the new G5's, as far as they (tech support) are aware . . .

The friendly tech-support guy further qualified this by saying there is a different PSU in the new machines, and also acknowledged that this issue did exist in previous power supplies (as well as various problems with disk drives in some models.)

|He gave me this link which is the first open acknowledgement by Apple that I've seen: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86523

He nearly sent me a document about exactly what is fixed with the new models but then realsied it was an internal document, not for the great unwashed, and that he wasn't allowed to send it. Rats!

Right, I'm goibng in to my University and ordering a 2.0GHz machine, with a slightly upgraded (6600) video card.

P.S. I didn't get round to asking about the FireWire, so if anyone else finds out, please post here . . .

booboo · Nov 7, 2005, 12:59 PM

Just in case anyone's interested, although it seems I'm the only one interested in this thread (!) my new G5 2.0 DC arrived today. Here are some observations:

The power supply is now 100% chirp-free. This is the first G5 I've ever seen (or rather heard) that is entirely free of this issue.

With 'Performance' set to 'Maximum' this G5 appears to run a lot cooler than previous revisions, which is good.

It is not silent, though quieter than the REV C 2.0GHz DP I sent back a couple of weeks ago. The fans however have an annoying frequency characteristic to them. I can live with it, but it's a shame because there are plenty of inexpensive fans with more of an even white-noise characteristic. Maybe I'll change the main offender - the one that cools the PCI Express cards

Performance seems very good. I think the non-LE 6600 video option is worth the small extra outlay.

With the re-designed CPU cooling layout, I'm not sure if extra drives will still fit in the bottom bay. I've emailed this company but no repy as yet . . . .

Now to begin rebuilding my Mac-life from various incomplete back-ups from over the years . . .

hardcat1970 · Nov 7, 2005, 02:12 PM

i don't know if it is a wide spread issue about the fan noise. My new Dual 2.0 is so quiet and it runs pretty cool cos' i can feel the air coming out. However the hard drive noise is very audible whenever it accesses files.

krove · Nov 7, 2005, 07:25 PM

I, too, am concerned about the firewire 800 speeds. http://www.barefeats.com/ should answer that when they get test units in.

JRobinson · Nov 7, 2005, 08:07 PM

Thank you all for starting this thread. My 2 GHz DC should arrive tomorrow!

macndave · Nov 7, 2005, 10:39 PM

I purchased a Dual Core 2.0 Ghz Power Mac on Sunday at the Clarendon, Virginia Apple Store. I got the stock machine. It was tough choosing between the 2.0 and the 2.3 as I wanted the 250 Gigabyte hard drive and the 256 video card. But I decided I would prefer to save the money to purchase a 250 Gigabyte SATA drive and more RAM online.

The store manager mentioned that only an Apple Genius could install the RAM. But it looks like the installation process for any other Power Mac, in pairs.

The one thing that is alittle upsetting is that the Apple Store didn't have the Airport+Bluetooth card. Apparently the wireless networking card has been redesigned, and will be available at the end of the month. The sales rep promised that the installation would be waived when the card is available, and that the card itself should cost $99. So, for now, I am connectied via ethernet and USB keyboard and mouse.

Big Mac · Nov 8, 2005, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by booboo

Just in case anyone's interested, although it seems I'm the only one interested in this thread (!) my new G5 2.0 DC arrived today. Here are some observations:

The power supply is now 100% chirp-free. This is the first G5 I've ever seen (or rather heard) that is entirely free of this issue.

My Rev b DP 2.0 does not exhibit the symptom at all.

dr. zoidberg · Nov 8, 2005, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by krove

I, too, am concerned about the firewire 800 speeds. http://www.barefeats.com/ should answer that when they get test units in.

well, see http://www.barefeats.com/dc20.html

HAS THE FIREWIRE 800 WRITE SPEED IMPROVED?
No. We hooked up our dual G-RAID four drive FireWire 800 array to the built-in port on the new Dual-Core as well as the old Single-Core and our G4/1.5GHz PowerBook. As you can see from the graph below, the PowerBook blows both of them away. The write speed issue has NOT been addressed. It's crazy.

i would guess that the quads won't be any different here ...

Big Mac · Nov 8, 2005, 09:03 AM

It makes sense that Firewire performance has not improved if you believe AI's report that Apple dismantled the Mac hardware development teams to put them on Mactel development.

golby · Nov 8, 2005, 09:39 AM

With the re-designed CPU cooling layout, I'm not sure if extra drives will still fit in the bottom bay. I've emailed this company but no repy as yet . . . .

I know wiebetech's solution for this is not compatible with the new DCs.

booboo · Nov 8, 2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by krove

I, too, am concerned about the firewire 800 speeds. http://www.barefeats.com/ should answer that when they get test units in.

I read somewhere that these were not fixed. Unfortunately, I don't have any FW800 devices, so I can't check this for you.

I really like the new mouse, and unlike others who say it took a while to adjust to, I found the transition from my Logitec optical wheel mouse effortless. Boy, is the scroll-ball sexy or what!

booboo · Nov 8, 2005, 01:43 PM

double post

booboo · Nov 8, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by golby

With the re-designed CPU cooling layout, I'm not sure if extra drives will still fit in the bottom bay. I've emailed this company but no repy as yet . . . .

I know wiebetech's solution for this is not compatible with the new DCs.

"We have heard from one of our customers that the bracket does NOT work in
the new dual core Power Mac G5.

We are looking to verify this and should have additional information within
the next couple of days. When all information has been gathered, we'll be
sure to update our website.

Thank you,

The G5 Drive Bracket Team"

You'd have to say Apple were aware they were 'designing out' this bracket compatibility. What is wrong with people having more than 2 hard drives in their massive G5 monoliths?

There is still just room for 3.5" drives to fit between the case front and the CPU fans. so providing the bracket is thin enough, hopefully we'll see some redesigned dual-core compatible brackets soon - probably even before there's a PCI-Express SATA card . . . .

KarenE · Nov 8, 2005, 01:46 PM

Is the Firewire 800 performace on the new PM's still significantly better than the firewire 400 perfomance on the G4 PM's ?

The reason I ask is that i'm gettinga new DC PM and have a 250GB external drive that I can connect via FW400, FW800 or USB2 or 1.1. Currently I have it hooked up to my Quicksilver via Firewire 400 and was wondering if I would see a difference hooking it up via FW800 on the new DC PM when it arrives.

- Karen

booboo · Nov 8, 2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

My Rev b DP 2.0 does not exhibit the symptom at all.

What environment are you using your Mac in?

What's your high-frequency hearing like?

Just interested, as I've yet to see a Rev A, B or C G5 entirely free of this issue.

Todd Madson · Nov 8, 2005, 03:52 PM

As an aside, the high frequency noises some people are hearing seem to have
two distinct causes - for some it is related to power supply units in the older
G5 towers. Not every tower exhibits this problem (mine doesn't - and I was
a little sad that I couldn't produce the musical scale effect that the testing app
created).

Another issue some have experienced was the video card itself producing
noise. For instance, the 9600 XT I have in my G5 has no fan, but if I try
and overclock the card with ATIcellerator it overclocks but when I try to
overclock it heavily (example, beyond the equivalent 9600 XT PC version
card stock specs - 500 mhz clock + 330 mhz memory clock) and the card
is hit heavily with graphic information the card can produce a very high
pitched oscillation that is very noticeable.

If I bring it back to stock frequencies, this sound is far minimized or
eliminated. Which is why I believe it to be the card itself. And this
is why Apple might have clocked these cards to 400 mhz instead of
their equivalent PC version.

This was while doing ridiculous things such as running Doom3 with all
settings to maximum or Xplane with all rendering options set to maximum
and then setting things to "ridiculous" for anti-aliasing.

90% of the things I use the computer for it doesn't make a peep, it's
ridiculously quiet. Only when I push the graphics card do I get sounds
like this.

What I've noted is that if you have audio happening in an app, you
don't notice it - sometimes not at all.

If you have no sound (example, flying the "Austin's Hypersonic" plane
to just on the edge of outer space and shutting the engines off turning it
into a big glider) that you'll definetely notice the card squealing if you are
pushing it beyond stock specs - sometimes just setting all video options
to max.

My thoughts.

BTW: my tower sits on the floor by my feet, not at desk/ear level.

mduell · Nov 8, 2005, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by booboo

You'd have to say Apple were aware they were 'designing out' this bracket compatibility. What is wrong with people having more than 2 hard drives in their massive G5 monoliths?

What's wrong is that they're not buying Xserve RAIDs.

jamil5454 · Nov 8, 2005, 10:44 PM

Todd Madson, what you're hearing is, in fact, the PSU chirping.

Play the scale program again (make sure Allow Nap is checked) and put your ear up to the lower back portion of your machine. Listen closely.

A nice example of the chirping noise is during the RSS screen saver. I have it set to start at 30 minutes, and I can always tell when it comes on because of the high pitched cricket sound coming from my machine.

I wonder if Apple will start replacing PSUs with the same model found in the latest revision, so that hopefully I could bring my machine in and get the PSU replaced. Or maybe the new machine's PSUs are totally incompatible with all the single core PowerMacs. Who knows.

Todd Madson · Nov 10, 2005, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Todd Madson, what you're hearing is, in fact, the PSU chirping.

Play the scale program again (make sure Allow Nap is checked) and put your ear up to the lower back portion of your machine. Listen closely.

A nice example of the chirping noise is during the RSS screen saver. I have it set to start at 30 minutes, and I can always tell when it comes on because of the high pitched cricket sound coming from my machine.

I wonder if Apple will start replacing PSUs with the same model found in the latest revision, so that hopefully I could bring my machine in and get the PSU replaced. Or maybe the new machine's PSUs are totally incompatible with all the single core PowerMacs. Who knows.

I'll check it out but I do notice it only makes the noise after the machine is running
heavy graphics and only heavy graphics. Weird. I typically shut nap off in order to
get a bit of a speed boost when running Seti @ Home.

My guess is the power supplies are similar but not identical.

Ultimately, I'd be more interested in seeing the Firewire 800 issue corrected.