[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

People keep forgetting that what they're doing now is EXACTLY what they set out to do in 1984.

Their slogan in 1984 was "The Computer for the Rest of Us."

http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gr...ommercial1.mov
http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gr...ommercial2.mov
http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gr...ommercial3.mov
http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gr...ommercial4.mov
http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gr...ommercial5.mov

They did cater to geeks some, but it was not their focus.
http://oldcomputers.net/oldads/80s/macintosh-1.jpg

Oh I realize that actually and well. Let's just say I don't regret that Steve was canned from Apple before he could actually do that. It would have ended the Macintosh faster than you could say GUI.

The Mac was supposed to be a closed-box, non-upgradable, protected environment.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Once he said that MMS was a dead tech thus it wouldn't ever be implemented into the iPhone. Just email things, that's the future!

Wow was he wrong!

How odd.

I *distinctly* remember explaining that MMS was rather important TO ME, PERSONALLY, as my wife does not own an e-mail-capable phone, and I rather value MMS functionality for instant reception of, say, a photograph of the new cupboard (IIRC, that was my example).

You are apparently completely unable to distinguish between understanding business decisions and dealing with consequences in daily life.

Also, you are apparently completely unable to make any sort of coherent argument without misrepresenting others (at least me, specifically) and being a complete asshole about it.

Congratulations.

Just when Rob's position had gone vacant, too.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You are apparently completely unable to distinguish between understanding business decisions and dealing with consequences in daily life.
-

Not really, it's just that as a consumer I don't care about business decisions. I don't sympathize with companies. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

So I can understand that the 'best' decision for Apple (or it's growth) is to cater to the lowest common denominator, it is also a bad decision. Growth is bad if it isn't sustainable.

You can have good food, or you can have food that is 'popular'. That's fine with me, but as I said, presenting the McCheese as gourmet food or that is must be this way so it can cater to the most people to ensure 'growth' is a hollow argument in my ears when talking about a company that used to be 'insanely great' and took chances.

It sold a certain user experience, that quite frankly, wasn't for everyone. But it was good.

(see how I dismiss those personal attacks you made Spheric, you're wasting them on me anyway, as well you should know)

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Oh I realize that actually and well. Let's just say I don't regret that Steve was canned from Apple before he could actually do that. It would have ended the Macintosh faster than you could say GUI.

The Mac was supposed to be a closed-box, non-upgradable, protected environment.

Jobs leaves, Macintosh is opened and geeked up, and hit with a huge customizable palette of products: it flounders and almost dies.

Jobs comes back, Apple simplifies and re-consumerizes: Incredible success.

Every iPad sold must cut you like a knife.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Not really, it's just that as a consumer I don't care about business decisions. I don't sympathize with companies. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

So I can understand that the 'best' decision for Apple (or it's growth) is to cater to the lowest common denominator, it is also a bad decision. Growth is bad if it isn't sustainable.

Decisions that force a company to go under are bad decisions.

If you'd rather Apple didn't exist than do what they do now, that's fine.

Personally, I'm happier with my THREE Apple products (one iPhone, one four-year-old MacBook, and Logic Studio) than I've ever been since I spent my time customizing my system with ResEdit - in high school.

BTW, I didn't get my iPhone until after it had MMS.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Not really, it's just that as a consumer I don't care about business decisions. I don't sympathize with companies. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

I can distinguish.

On here, I tend to discuss Apple, not me.

Originally Posted by voodoo 

It sold a certain user experience, that quite frankly, wasn't for everyone. But it was good.

That's still their business, almost entirely.

It's just that you've always misunderstood their actual motivation.

Sucks to be you.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Jobs leaves, Macintosh is opened and geeked up, and hit with a huge customizable palette of products: it flounders and almost dies.

Jobs comes back, Apple simplifies and re-consumerizes: Incredible success.

Every iPad sold must cut you like a knife.

Now that's some major rewriting of history and my opinions there big boy. I was very pleased with Steve returning, because he had learned. He had tried his strategy full force with NeXT and with that lesson he did amazing things for Apple.

The Mac returned and it was great! However it meant a lot of effort, innovation and progress with the Mac. Simplification was only a small part of it.

Now the iPods and stuff are different, but Steve wants them to be the same. They aren't the same. Until the iPod touch and iPhone, how many times had various companies tried to apply PC UI logic on mobile devices? And failed? Repeatedly?

Point being, innovation and effort made the iOS a success. The Mac hasn't seen much innovation in the last 5 years or so and Apple seems to be completely disinterested in providing resources for the Mac.

Much like when the Mac failed in the 90s.

Yeah it sucks to be me, I'll cry all the way to bed now.

[Spheric Harlot]

NeXT had great products for a tiny niche.

The ONLY thing that kept them from total business failure was that Apple bought them.

Yes, Steve has learned. That's why he took the technical underpinnings of NeXT and a no-compromises hardware approach to building CONSUMER experience.

That consumer experience is what made the Mac successful initially.

[Phileas]

I played with NeXT when it first came out. It was both awesome and totally useless at the same time.

[Face Ache]

Speaking of NeXT...



Interesting.

[Big Mac]

What does that have to do with NeXT?

[The Final Dakar]

I'm assuming it has to do with the GUI colors.

[Cold Warrior]

Bickering
Attacks

on topic

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Yes, Steve has learned. That's why he took the technical underpinnings of NeXT and a no-compromises hardware approach to building CONSUMER experience.

Well that's odd, because what he learned I assume he used in the first decade at Apple (1997-2007) where it wasn't just consumer experience, but making the 'best OS on the planet' (which MS has caught up to now) and offering high quality hardware and design. The hardware part still holds true for the most part - excluding the CD-R debacle of the early 2000s and the current BD debacle.

But the OS is a poor consumer experience. Back in the early 2000s Macs offered a great way to rip-mix-burn, a way to make the Mac a home multimedia center. Now it's a great way to buy online DRMd music that dies with your hard drives and poor quality movies (available in 4 countries).

It's all about selling 99cent tracks and where possible $2 poor quality TV episodes. The user experience has become boring and painfully obviously self-centered instead of user centered. Apple even got so blatant about this they're practically bragging about this in the form of the Apple TV.

In other words, Apple is offering a completely different user experience now than when the Mac became popular again.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Do you actually launch an app by opening the Applications folder?

Yep, I go to the Finder navigate to Applications and start my app.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Every single "upgrade" or "new feature" seemed forced. Even mission control. Those who are hoping for something 'insanely great' from Lion when it is released - don't hold your breath. Steve also promised more and greater features on Snow Leopard (that he just couldn't talk about at that particular moment) and then it turned out there wasn't anything.

Snow Leopard was a giant leap over Leopard. You're nuts.

FaceTime isn't a part of iChat because Apple will also create a Windows version. Apple isn't gonna port iChat to Windows just to provide FaceTime. That's pretty convoluted reasoning. Why? Apple will provide FaceTime on Windows.

The app installation and auto-update of the Mac App Store will be a godsend. Really, I've been waiting for this forever. Nice we get this on Snow Leopard. Most apps for the Mac already have auto-updating as a feature and to install them, is just to move them in a folder from the disk image and sometimes not even that. I don't like apps bugging me with updates. I prefer going to the AppStore and clicking Update All when it's convenient for me.

The new 11" Air is just sexy. And putting the chips on the mainboard instead of a complete drive is just brilliant. Great, because it better be 'sexy' or in some way stimulating for you because as a computer you're not getting much value for your money. Enhanced portability is very valuable to me.

iLife update is now cheaper, back to $49 from $79. Either they were selling fewer updates lately, or this update is much less comprehensive. Watching the video stream, that seems to be the case. Eh yeah Apple seems to have lost interest completely in Mac software, so this iLife "upgrade" is little more than an expansion of some holliday and vacation templates. I don't think Apple has "completely" lost anything. But perhaps iLife is getting close to "maintanance mode" because there's not much left worth adding.

Did anyone else notice the guy demoing Lion was having trouble making the gestures? Yeah, but if you've ever used gestures, well then this is quite normal. They're very unreliable. I use gestures on my MacBook all the time without problems. Either the Magic Mouse is hard to gesture on, or the alpha state of development was still buggy, or that guy was just nervous.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Yep, I go to the Finder navigate to Applications and start my app.

Wow. Why? There are so many easier, faster, and more intuitive ways to open an app. Why bother going to the trouble of finding it in the Finder and all that?

Usually people I’ve come across that open apps that way just simply don’t realise that there are easier ways of doing it; but I’d expect of you that you were well aware of these ways, and actually choose to do it this way instead.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

The Mac hasn't seen much innovation in the last 5 years or so and Apple seems to be completely disinterested in providing resources for the Mac.

Crazy talk. For example, my MacBook holds dozens of innovations over my 15" PowerBook G4. You must be trolling.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Snow Leopard was a giant leap over Leopard. You're nuts.

While technically true, SL's changes were all under the hood. What 10.6 offered to the consumer wasn't anything earth shattering. Very little changed for them.

iLife update is now cheaper, back to $49 from $79. Either they were selling fewer updates lately, or this update is much less comprehensive. Watching the video stream, that seems to be the case. Eh yeah Apple seems to have lost interest completely in Mac software, so this iLife "upgrade" is little more than an expansion of some holliday and vacation templates. I don't think Apple has "completely" lost anything. But perhaps iLife is getting close to "maintanance mode" because there's not much left worth adding.

There's really not much in iLife so trying to extract 80 bucks from the consumer for iLife 11 was going to be hard. Lowering the price point makes it a little easier to move.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Wow. Why? There are so many easier, faster, and more intuitive ways to open an app. Why bother going to the trouble of finding it in the Finder and all that?

I have my main apps, aperture, PS, iTunes, bbedit, iWork stuff on my dock, etc. The rest of the apps that I use occasionally are in the applications folder and that's how I fire them up. Sure there's other methods but stuff that I don't use on a daily basis, using the finder is easy enough.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Wow. Why? There are so many easier, faster, and more intuitive ways to open an app. Why bother going to the trouble of finding it in the Finder and all that?

Usually people I’ve come across that open apps that way just simply don’t realise that there are easier ways of doing it; but I’d expect of you that you were well aware of these ways, and actually choose to do it this way instead.

what are the other, more intuitive ways than clicking on the Applications folder from the Dock to bring up a list of everything in that folder?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Snow Leopard was a giant leap over Leopard. You're nuts.

Even if I was stark raving mad, that wouldn't mean SL was anything more than a minor service pack to Leopard. Which it was.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Why? Apple will provide FaceTime on Windows.

Yes no doubt, but there's no need for it to be in a special app just because it's going to be on Windows. I'm sure there's a reason for it being a special app, but not that one.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I don't like apps bugging me with updates. I prefer going to the AppStore and clicking Update All when it's convenient for me.

Yes, you realize that is a setting in all apps.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Enhanced portability is very valuable to me.

It better be, because you're paying a hefty amount in lack of power, expandability, connectivity and actual money. Now, I'm sure that's no issue and you've already purchased one, but as a primary Mac? It's your only one?

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I don't think Apple has "completely" lost anything. But perhaps iLife is getting close to "maintanance mode" because there's not much left worth adding.

Yeah, that I doubt. How many times has it been said that everything that will be invented has already been invented? That's a rewording of a quote from the first decade of the 20th century.

See, there's PLENTY of things worth adding, fixing, refining or improving in other ways. However, the attitude of Apple is just to maintain the iLife suite on autopilot and introduce 3-5 new templates each year. Use an hour or two of high profile presentations to bore us to tears with Phil Schiller showing us fake family pictures.

Regardless, no way, no how has the iLife suite been 'completed' in any way shape or form. iMovie 6 is still better than the current iMovie. Just has fewer templates.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I use gestures on my MacBook all the time without problems. Either the Magic Mouse is hard to gesture on, or the alpha state of development was still buggy, or that guy was just nervous.

The Magic mouse is hard to gesture on.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Crazy talk. For example, my MacBook holds dozens of innovations over my 15" PowerBook G4. You must be trolling.

OK name one dozen.

(yeah I've been posting here for a decade just to troll)

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

what are the other, more intuitive ways than clicking on the Applications folder from the Dock to bring up a list of everything in that folder?

When there are perhaps a hundred apps that will then be listed?

I’d say using either Spotlight or a keyboard launcher like Quicksilver (which I use) to type the beginning of the app’s name and then hit enter to open it is more intuitive than that.

Sure, if you have only fifteen apps in the folder, it’s easy enough to oversee … but a list of many dozens of apps quickly gets very unintuitive and confusing to look at.

Besides, the app you want might not even be in the Applications folder; it could (for reasons known only to the user, if that) be placed anywhere. Or it could be a Utility, in which case using the Finder adds an extra step not necessary with a keyboard-based method of launching.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Wow. Why? There are so many easier, faster, and more intuitive ways to open an app. Why bother going to the trouble of finding it in the Finder and all that?

Usually people I’ve come across that open apps that way just simply don’t realise that there are easier ways of doing it; but I’d expect of you that you were well aware of these ways, and actually choose to do it this way instead.

What is more intuative than finding an app in the Applications folder? Besides, the most commonly used apps are in the Dock. If you need a more rarely used app -> Applications folder. Simple. Intuative. Works.

How simple?, you may ask. Click the smileyface in the Dock and then 'Applications' in the Window that opens. Alternatively you could have the entire Applications folder in the Dock, but that's not as convenient as it sounds.

You could also have aliases on the Desktop, and you could use Spotlight, but that is a bit nerdy.

What's your secret to opening Apps that is so much better than going to the Applications folder, yet offers access to all apps. (edit: oops ok it is using Spotlight)

Either way, using the Applications folder and just writing the name of the desired app, means there could be 1000s of apps there and it wouldn't matter. It's not like we look for each app visually!

Problem with Spotlight is that it comes up with all sorts of irrelevant things when I write "word" for instance. App folder -> write 'WOR..' and Word is highlit.

(I miss the Apple menu)

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

But the OS is a poor consumer experience. Back in the early 2000s Macs offered a great way to rip-mix-burn, a way to make the Mac a home multimedia center. Now it's a great way to buy online DRMd music that dies with your hard drives and poor quality movies (available in 4 countries).

Seriously? There's no DRM on iTunes music now and you can certainly backup all your content on optical media in addition to using Time Machine.

[Oisín]

You could also have aliases on the Desktop, and you could use Spotlight, but that is a bit nerdy.

What's your secret to opening Apps that is so much better than going to the Applications folder, yet offers access to all apps.

Well, Spotlight is one. See previous post for the rest.

(“So many easier, faster ways” was probably an unnecessary overstatement. “Several” would have been more accurate.)

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

What's your secret to opening Apps that is so much better than going to the Applications folder, yet offers access to all apps.

Putting the Applications folder in the Dock, for one.

In my view Stacks were an obvious attempt by Apple to publicize Dock folder menu functionality, specifically for /Applications.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Putting the Applications folder in the Dock, for one.

Yeah I sort of mentioned that before..

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Alternatively you could have the entire Applications folder in the Dock, but that's not as convenient as it sounds.

Anything else?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Seriously? There's no DRM on iTunes music now and you can certainly backup all your content on optical media in addition to using Time Machine.

Lack of any real knowledge on the subject hasn't stopped voodoo from being absolutely sure about anything.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Seriously? There's no DRM on iTunes music now and you can certainly backup all your content on optical media in addition to using Time Machine.

There is DRM in the form of watermark on each file, adding to that it is lossy. Buy a CD, you get non-lossy sound + it is backed up by the virtue of being a CD!

You get a leaflet too! Sure you could back up the iTunes library, but my point is it would be so much less hassle to do that on one BD instead of half a dozen DVDs. But yeah, it can be done - old school DRM rules or not. That's not the point.

So the DRM is there in form of a unique number. DRM doensn't mean "you can only play this on computer x with password y". It's a legal thing and a technical thing. It means in practical terms, that the distributer of the music has methods of selling you lossy music. No I mean keeping tabs on you. And selling you lossy music, naturally.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

When there are perhaps a hundred apps that will then be listed?

I’d say using either Spotlight or a keyboard launcher like Quicksilver (which I use) to type the beginning of the app’s name and then hit enter to open it is more intuitive than that.

Sure, if you have only fifteen apps in the folder, it’s easy enough to oversee … but a list of many dozens of apps quickly gets very unintuitive and confusing to look at.

Besides, the app you want might not even be in the Applications folder; it could (for reasons known only to the user, if that) be placed anywhere. Or it could be a Utility, in which case using the Finder adds an extra step not necessary with a keyboard-based method of launching.

If it isn't discoverable by a user, it isn't intuitive. using Spotlight to open apps isn't as discoverable as the Applications folder sitting in the Dock. Quicksilver is great, but it isn't native to the OS, and therefore isn't very discoverable either.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Lack of any real knowledge on the subject hasn't stopped voodoo from being absolutely sure about anything.

Now now, unless DRM means "you can't back up" then I don't think I'm the one who doesn't know the subject at hand.

All iTunes music sold contains DRM. That's digital rights management and yes it can include some restrictions, or just a watermark with your ID on it.

Thanks for the stupid lowblow though! Much appreciated, I actually thought you were pretty decent for a while there

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

If it isn't discoverable by a user, it isn't intuitive. using Spotlight to open apps isn't as discoverable as the Applications folder sitting in the Dock. Quicksilver is great, but it isn't native to the OS, and therefore isn't very discoverable either.

True, it’s not very discoverable. But I don’t think a folder nested in another folder (thinking of /Applications/Utilities here, for example) is an intuitive place to look for apps, either. In fact, I don’t think having to go to the Finder to look for apps in folders is intuitive or discoverable (despite the Applications shortcut being there in the Finder window by default) to begin with. Having them in the Dock is discoverable and logical, since the Dock is the main place a user would look for applications … but it’s hardly intuitive (as in easy and immediately efficient, rather than discoverable) to have a gigantic list of apps to wade through to find the right one, and it doesn’t deal with nested folders very elegantly, either.

Right after looking in the Dock, I’d say the most intuitive way of finding an app (especially in these days of Googling) is to simply type the name of the app. So both ways have elements of intuitiveness and unintuitiveness; Spotlight/Quicksilver just happens to (generally) be faster as well.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

OK name one dozen.

(yeah I've been posting here for a decade just to troll)

1) LED backlight display
2) Dual-core processing
3) 64-bit processing
4) 802.11n WiFi
5) Magnetic latch
6) MagSafe
7) Integrated graphics
8) 10-hour battery
9) Webcam
10) Boot any OS you want
11) Multi-touch trackpad
12) Unibody construction

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

True, it’s not very discoverable. But I don’t think a folder nested in another folder (thinking of /Applications/Utilities here, for example) is an intuitive place to look for apps, either. In fact, I don’t think having to go to the Finder to look for apps in folders is intuitive or discoverable (despite the Applications shortcut being there in the Finder window by default) to begin with. Having them in the Dock is discoverable and logical, since the Dock is the main place a user would look for applications … but it’s hardly intuitive (as in easy and immediately efficient, rather than discoverable) to have a gigantic list of apps to wade through to find the right one, and it doesn’t deal with nested folders very elegantly, either.

Right after looking in the Dock, I’d say the most intuitive way of finding an app (especially in these days of Googling) is to simply type the name of the app. So both ways have elements of intuitiveness and unintuitiveness; Spotlight/Quicksilver just happens to (generally) be faster as well.

So, we're agreed that MacOS doesn't provide discoverable ways to find applications.

[imitchellg5]

Well it's better than Windows...

[Phileas]

Voodoo has been complaining about pretty much everything Apple has done for years now. Somehow, despite his fervently voiced opinions, Apple appears to be doing just fine.

So why don't we leave him to himself and carry on with the real discussion.

[imitchellg5]

Good call. Or maybe he's been sarcastic all these years.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

1) LED backlight display
2) Dual-core processing
3) 64-bit processing
4) 802.11n WiFi
5) Magnetic latch
6) MagSafe
7) Integrated graphics
8) 10-hour battery
9) Webcam
10) Boot any OS you want
11) Multi-touch trackpad
12) Unibody construction

What no faster CPU or more RAM? Any Macintosh specific advancements, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear - but we were talking about the Macintosh. Any of that applies to a Peezoid as well (after all you could just boot that "Mac" into Windows)

So what dozens and dozens of Macintosh advancements has Apple provided in the last 5 years? That's the issue - I've never had any qualms with the general hardware development at Apple. Quite the contrary, it's been exemplary and thusly completely out of sync with the OS development.

There seems to be an army of engineers figuring out something elegant and usable like the Magsafe connector, while there's one part-time coffeboy maintaining the Finder.

Thanks for the list though, I don't mean to bash your effort.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Voodoo has been complaining about pretty much everything Apple has done for years now. Somehow, despite his fervently voiced opinions, Apple appears to be doing just fine.

So why don't we leave him to himself and carry on with the real discussion.

For years! For decades!! In fact I've just used and bought and advocated the Mac and joined this forum and posted here for all this time JUST to complain about Apple.

Oh yes, despite my best efforts, Apple seems to be doing fine. Oh how that hurts!! Oh noes!!

..... OR alternatively, I do actually like Apple products, use them enough to realize where they are flawed and comment on a Mac discussion forum. Because that would be the right place for it??

Or is this the circlejerk forum perhaps?

(that was sarcasm)

[turtle777]

Voodoo is on a roll. He reminds me of Rob in SUV discussions

-t

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

He reminds me of Rob in SUV discussions

-t

Hey now... we can agree to disagree, but that's a really low blow.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

So what dozens and dozens of Macintosh advancements has Apple provided in the last 5 years? That's the issue - I've never had any qualms with the general hardware development at Apple. Quite the contrary, it's been exemplary and thusly completely out of sync with the OS development.

What specific areas of OS X would you like Apple to work on, voodoo? After nearly a decade of progress and refinement it's pretty mature. So is Windows for that matter.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

The Magic mouse is hard to gesture on.

So is beta functionality that might just be a little quirky.

We don't know which it was, but it seemed like the beta to me - the response was a little delayed, which frazzled him.

I agree that gestures on the Magic Mouse may be weird - I'll hold my opinion until we see exactly what Apple will implement, and how.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Well that's odd, because what he learned I assume he used in the first decade at Apple (1997-2007) where it wasn't just consumer experience, but making the 'best OS on the planet' (which MS has caught up to now) and offering high quality hardware and design.

Since you assume that (and I think you're right, except perhaps on Win7 having caught up), what do you make of the fact that the iMac single-handedly rescued the Mac from the brink of extinction, while the iPod undisputedly is responsible for the explosion in Apple's business (with the much-touted "halo" effect resulting in sales of the rather nice Mac hardware)?

(And "pro" users were bitching LOUDLY when OS X came out (in 2000, smack in the middle of the phase you name) about how the "happy horseshit" and reduced functionality was a slap in the face of professionals. In fact, a number of us only came here to MacNN because MacFixit got flooded with those discussions.)

Jobs had high-quality hardware and design at NeXT (they were utterly beautiful machines, and extremely powerful for the time), had a totally brilliant OS - WAY ahead of its time -, and sold

A TOTAL OF 50,000 MACHINES.

That's a little more than Apple sells Macintoshes now IN A DAY.

To consumers.

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I played with NeXT when it first came out. It was both awesome and totally useless at the same time.

That's pretty accurate except in very few niches. The musicology department here in Hamburg still have - and love - their NeXT cube. They still use it for FFT analysis, and not much more.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

We don't know which it was, but it seemed like the beta to me - the response was a little delayed, which frazzled him.

I agree that gestures on the Magic Mouse may be weird - I'll hold my opinion until we see exactly what Apple will implement, and how.

The dude was EXTREMELY nervous. His hands were actually shaking.

I have trouble with the gestures on the magic mouse, but find the trackpad easy to use. If they were going to showcase gestures, they should have had the best tool for the job on stage, and that's NOT the magic mouse.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

While technically true, SL's changes were all under the hood. What 10.6 offered to the consumer wasn't anything earth shattering. Very little changed for them.

There's really not much in iLife so trying to extract 80 bucks from the consumer for iLife 11 was going to be hard. Lowering the price point makes it a little easier to move.

People say that about EVERY iLife upgrade, and it's invariably only people who don't actually use any of the applications.

If you use GarageBand, FlexTime ALONE is well worth the $50 upgrade price.

If you use iMovie, the new audio editing functions and the fact that YOU GET A REAL TIMELINE are easily worth TWICE the $50 upgrade price.

iPhoto, I have no idea. I'm quite happy with the previous version.

[Spheric Harlot]

nm. app launching via Spotlight already addressed.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

People say that about EVERY iLife upgrade, and it's invariably only people who don't actually use any of the applications.

There's truth to that statement. For all intents purposes, I have little need for iLife so my perspective is coming from one that was hoping that it would draw me back in but none of what it offers really did anything for me.