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Bartman · Jun 19, 2005, 03:01 PM

they fired Jobs one time and look how his life turned

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bartman

they fired Jobs one time and look how his life turned

So i just looked at the poll numbers again..

I wonder how many folks are still going to switch how that the heat of the moment has passed?

Bartman · Jun 19, 2005, 03:41 PM

I'm not jumping off the Mac ship into the Windows ocean

X-Ray · Jun 19, 2005, 03:52 PM

Yeah, I jumped ship last week - sold my Mini and picked up a Dual 2 ghz G5 .

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by X-Ray

Yeah, I jumped ship last week - sold my Mini and picked up a Dual 2 ghz G5 .

yikes!

jcadam · Jun 19, 2005, 03:59 PM

Whether you are staying with Apple or not, I question the wisdom of buying a mutli-kilobuck PPC based mac right now.

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by jcadam

Whether you are staying with Apple or not, I question the wisdom of buying a mutli-kilobuck PPC based mac right now.

why not? if you need one now... and the software will be built for it for 5 years... by then you will be able to buy a dual dual dual intel mac for $399

SassyPants · Jun 19, 2005, 05:33 PM

i'm still getting a PPC based powerbook. ordering it later in august, but still getting one just the same. i'm switching from Wintels to Macs, and i think it'll be worth it, even tho macs are switching to intel. doesn't matter for me, cuz the mactels won't be very good until 2008 at teh earliest

goMac · Jun 19, 2005, 06:19 PM

I was going to buy a Power Mac in the near future, but now I'm going to hold off and buy a new x86 Powerbook instead. Them Intel Macs are fast...

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I was going to buy a Power Mac in the near future, but now I'm going to hold off and buy a new x86 Powerbook instead. Them Intel Macs are fast...

I just bought an Alu 15" pb and sure am looking forward to a dual core version next year...

Strange. last month we were hoping ibm would just get a current g5 down to a laptop.

Next year? Powerbook Nirvanna.

xcell · Jun 19, 2005, 08:22 PM

I assume by now you've heard that Apple is switching over to Intel next year, and that the PowerPC development will stop after that. As a result, demand for PowerMacs is expected to drop and the speeds will likely never exceed 3GHZ. I am going to start running Linux side-by-side with MacOS because I expect I will eventually switch over to it in the 1-2 year time frame. One of the main reasons Apple is switching to Intel is because the Intel chips have DRM (digital rights management) built in to the hardware. This will make it theoretically impossible for hackers to bypass it. So, no more "fair use" or anything like that. You will only be able to do with your movies, music, etc. what the distribution companies (MPAA, RIAA, etc.) want you to be able to do. You will not have total control over your computer -- they will.

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by xcell

I assume by now you've heard that Apple is switching over to Intel next year, and that the PowerPC development will stop after that. As a result, demand for PowerMacs is expected to drop and the speeds will likely never exceed 3GHZ. I am going to start running Linux side-by-side with MacOS because I expect I will eventually switch over to it in the 1-2 year time frame. One of the main reasons Apple is switching to Intel is because the Intel chips have DRM (digital rights management) built in to the hardware. This will make it theoretically impossible for hackers to bypass it. So, no more "fair use" or anything like that. You will only be able to do with your movies, music, etc. what the distribution companies (MPAA, RIAA, etc.) want you to be able to do. You will not have total control over your computer -- they will.

goMac · Jun 19, 2005, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by xcell

I assume by now you've heard that Apple is switching over to Intel next year, and that the PowerPC development will stop after that. As a result, demand for PowerMacs is expected to drop and the speeds will likely never exceed 3GHZ. I am going to start running Linux side-by-side with MacOS because I expect I will eventually switch over to it in the 1-2 year time frame. One of the main reasons Apple is switching to Intel is because the Intel chips have DRM (digital rights management) built in to the hardware. This will make it theoretically impossible for hackers to bypass it. So, no more "fair use" or anything like that. You will only be able to do with your movies, music, etc. what the distribution companies (MPAA, RIAA, etc.) want you to be able to do. You will not have total control over your computer -- they will.

Are you the dude I just replied to on SlashDot? This isn't about DRM....

mitchell_pgh · Jun 19, 2005, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by xcell

I assume by now you've heard that Apple is switching over to Intel next year, and that the PowerPC development will stop after that. As a result, demand for PowerMacs is expected to drop and the speeds will likely never exceed 3GHZ. I am going to start running Linux side-by-side with MacOS because I expect I will eventually switch over to it in the 1-2 year time frame. One of the main reasons Apple is switching to Intel is because the Intel chips have DRM (digital rights management) built in to the hardware. This will make it theoretically impossible for hackers to bypass it. So, no more "fair use" or anything like that. You will only be able to do with your movies, music, etc. what the distribution companies (MPAA, RIAA, etc.) want you to be able to do. You will not have total control over your computer -- they will.

Pure speculation.

What was stopping Apple from placing advanced DRM in the current PPC systems? ANSWER: NOTHING.

Sure the x86 Intel systems has built in DRM, but that does not mean that they are going to use it in everything OR that you will not have total control over your computer [PS. We never had total control over our systems]

mitchell_pgh · Jun 19, 2005, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by SassyPants

i'm still getting a PPC based powerbook. ordering it later in august, but still getting one just the same. i'm switching from Wintels to Macs, and i think it'll be worth it, even tho macs are switching to intel. doesn't matter for me, cuz the mactels won't be very good until 2008 at teh earliest

If anything, NOW is a GREAT time to buy a Mac. Buy now and weather the PPC to x86 storm.

osxisfun · Jun 19, 2005, 08:49 PM

>cuz the mactels won't be very good until 2008 at teh earliest

huh? you mean dual core powerbooks by next summer are not going to be better than we have now?

osxisfun · Jun 22, 2005, 08:32 PM

good lord look at the size of that fan...

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

wait... its bigger in this pic..

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

or is that the heat sync.

AKcrab · Jun 22, 2005, 08:35 PM

My G4 quicksilver is the loudest computer I've ever owned.

goMac · Jun 22, 2005, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

If anything, NOW is a GREAT time to buy a Mac. Buy now and weather the PPC to x86 storm.

Honestly I don't think there will much of an PPC to x86 storm.

This is going to be a very very very clean transition compared to Classic to Mac OS X.

Talleyman · Jun 23, 2005, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by AKcrab

My G4 quicksilver is the loudest computer I've ever owned.

My sawtooth just screams away. Sheesh...someone is worrying about the size of a fan on a developer, pre-release two years from real production machine. hehe.

AKcrab: my I use your apple intel logo?

MindFad · Jun 23, 2005, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

good lord look at the size of that fan...

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

wait... its bigger in this pic..

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

or is that the heat sync.

OMFG, IT NEEDS AT LEAST EIGHT MORE.

goMac · Jun 23, 2005, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

good lord look at the size of that fan...

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

wait... its bigger in this pic..

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

or is that the heat sync.

a) This is the Pentium 4. Apple is not going to use the Pentium 4 in shipping system.
b) The G5 needs freakin water cooling. That's better?

osxisfun · Jun 23, 2005, 01:26 AM

i know. they will use the next pentium (m or d)

no. i am banging my head there because i can't get over what a difference in fans we are going to get...

I can't wait.

(but i guess i have to for 9 more months.)

goMac · Jun 23, 2005, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

i know. they will use the next pentium (m or d)

no. i am banging my head there because i can't get over what a difference in fans we are going to get...

I can't wait.

(but i guess i have to for 9 more months.)

We're not getting those fans. The Pentium M may not even have a fan.

I have that fan in my PC. It's pretty gosh darn quiet. My graphics card fan is louder.

Talleyman · Jun 23, 2005, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

i am banging my head there because i can't get over what a difference in fans we are going to get

Me too! I hope we get the Bugenheimer 4600's they are AWESOME!

powertrippin · Jun 23, 2005, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by MindFad

OMFG, IT NEEDS AT LEAST EIGHT MORE.

osxisfun · Jun 23, 2005, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

We're not getting those fans. The Pentium M may not even have a fan.

I have that fan in my PC. It's pretty gosh darn quiet. My graphics card fan is louder.

SWEET! I am a quiet / noise nut.... I knew the .65 Ms where going to be low heat but had not heard they may be fanless...

goMac · Jun 23, 2005, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

SWEET! I am a quiet / noise nut.... I knew the .65 Ms where going to be low heat but had not heard they may be fanless...

Well, they could have a fan. But given that Apple has wonderful engineers on heating, I doubt they will. They'll probably throw some custom heat sync on the thing.

osxisfun · Jul 13, 2005, 02:59 PM

reason #54992 apple made the right move in switching chips:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1175

faster.

more dev comments on speed of dev mules. interesting post about the buses by a poster there too.

is it 2006 yet?

Buut...buttt. what about the "purity" of the powerpc...

Rob van dam · Jul 14, 2005, 03:14 AM

Wouldnt it be much easier if apple just gave up and licensed there os.Why would you pay a premium for hardwrae no since your running the same hardware as everyone else.

goMac · Jul 14, 2005, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rob van dam

Wouldnt it be much easier if apple just gave up and licensed there os.Why would you pay a premium for hardwrae no since your running the same hardware as everyone else.

Uhh... You're not? The only thing thats going to be the same as everyone else is the processor. Apple mobo, Apple case, Apple cooling system...

And you're paying for the ability to run OS X. OS X will sell the Macintosh, as it always has.

Rob van dam · Jul 14, 2005, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Uhh... You're not? The only thing thats going to be the same as everyone else is the processor. Apple mobo, Apple case, Apple cooling system...

And you're paying for the ability to run OS X. OS X will sell the Macintosh, as it always has.

i guess so.But we will have to see.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 14, 2005, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rob van dam

i guess so.But we will have to see.

We WILL have to see... but I'm not going to bash Apple until they give me reason to bash Apple.

If anything, I think Apple will make Intel shine.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 14, 2005, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

reason #54992 apple made the right move in switching chips:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1175

faster.

more dev comments on speed of dev mules. interesting post about the buses by a poster there too.

is it 2006 yet?

Buut...buttt. what about the "purity" of the powerpc...

I respect people that like the purity of PPC, but the reality is... x86 IS the desktop chip of choice.

Even if IBM has something very cool "just around the corner" it is a MAJOR gamble to stick with them. At least with x86, if Intel can't deliver a new chip... they can't deliver to EVERYONE. I think it was a good decision.

And we always have AMD to use as a backup.

turtle777 · Jul 14, 2005, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by X-Ray

Yeah, I jumped ship last week - sold my Mini and picked up a Dual 2 ghz G5 .

Sucks for you, bro

-t

jcadam · Jul 14, 2005, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Uhh... You're not? The only thing thats going to be the same as everyone else is the processor. Apple mobo, Apple case, Apple cooling system...

And you're paying for the ability to run OS X. OS X will sell the Macintosh, as it always has.

Changing the processor is a bigger deal than some of you people make it out to be.

processor switch = new bus architecture, new supporting chipset. And if you think Apple is going to continue to put forth the R&D to come up with a custom system controller chip (as in the PM G5) you would be wrong. They will save that money and go with an already available motherboard chipset from the likes of VIA, nVidia, ATI, or intel. They may even not bother to design their own motherboards, as there is a steady stream of new designs utilizing the latest chipsets coming out of Taiwan as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see the macs utilizing the standard-but-flawed ATX form factor.

goMac · Jul 14, 2005, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by jcadam

Changing the processor is a bigger deal than some of you people make it out to be.

processor switch = new bus architecture, new supporting chipset. And if you think Apple is going to continue to put forth the R&D to come up with a custom system controller chip (as in the PM G5) you would be wrong. They will save that money and go with an already available motherboard chipset from the likes of VIA, nVidia, ATI, or intel. They may even not bother to design their own motherboards, as there is a steady stream of new designs utilizing the latest chipsets coming out of Taiwan as well. Wouldn't be surprised to see the macs utilizing the standard-but-flawed ATX form factor.

Apple will not have standard ATX cases most likely in the Power Macs. And the minis, iMacs, and eMacs will not fit ATX. This alone means they will have to do a custom mobo. They're Apple. They will at least do a custom BIOS. More likely than not they will do their own mobo. Most of the chipsets on the PPC boards were not done by Apple anyway. Apple did not use generic PowerPC boards either.

Apple makes a name in the industry by doing custom design. I don't think a chip change will change that. Apple never used generic PowerPC parts, I doubt they will for Intel. At the end of the day it really is just a chip change. Really. I'm sure that Intel would be glad to help them design a motherboard, just as IBM helped them design their own PowerPC motherboard. Apple (read as:Steve Jobs) likes to do his own thing and not be dependent wherever possible. Processor design is just something Apple can't do however.

Gamoe · Jul 14, 2005, 06:51 PM

Though this is not specifically an Intel issue, I continue to worry about the possibility of hardware and OS level DRM dictating which files we are to use and how we use them, and the fact that Intel is one of the forerunners in this technology/philosophy does little to ease my doubts.

As I said before, I will continue with the Mac for the foreseeable future, although I am not fond of Intel or this processor change, as long as Apple doesn't start incorporating these types of disruptive and limiting technologies in Macs. And I have no problem with Linux.

As far as custom design, we shall have to see how custom they are once the first true Mactels come out.

The Godfather · Jul 14, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Though this is not specifically an Intel issue, I continue to worry about the possibility of hardware and OS level DRM dictating which files we are to use and how we use them, and the fact that Intel is one of the forerunners in this technology/philosophy does little to ease my doubts.

As I said before, I will continue with the Mac for the foreseeable future, although I am not fond of Intel or this processor change, as long as Apple doesn't start incorporating these types of disruptive and limiting technologies in Macs. And I have no problem with Linux.

As far as custom design, we shall have to see how custom they are once the first true Mactels come out.

Well, if Apple+Intel ban the warez, then it will be a boom for shareware developers

budster101 · Jul 14, 2005, 08:23 PM

How do you ban warez? That would be nice and maybe software would come down to a more affordable level for the majority.

Gamoe · Jul 14, 2005, 09:25 PM

I don't care for or run "warez", but I do object to having software on my own computer monitoring me or corporations telling me what I can and can't do on my computer, and have to ask them permission to run something or other that I've bought on another computer, or because I changed something on my computer.

I don't care one bit for that world, and if that's the future of the Mac then you can bet I'm out of it.

goMac · Jul 14, 2005, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Though this is not specifically an Intel issue, I continue to worry about the possibility of hardware and OS level DRM dictating which files we are to use and how we use them, and the fact that Intel is one of the forerunners in this technology/philosophy does little to ease my doubts.

As I said before, I will continue with the Mac for the foreseeable future, although I am not fond of Intel or this processor change, as long as Apple doesn't start incorporating these types of disruptive and limiting technologies in Macs. And I have no problem with Linux.

As far as custom design, we shall have to see how custom they are once the first true Mactels come out.

If Apple had wanted to do it they could have done it on PPC. Nuff said.

Gamoe · Jul 15, 2005, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

If Apple had wanted to do it they could have done it on PPC. Nuff said.

That's right. If Apple had wanted to do it and they could have afforded to do so without losing too many customers they would have. But, times have changed and Apple's now in bed with one of the forerunners of this philosophy/technology which has such chips readily available, making this an easily accessible option for Apple. Like I said, this isn't Intel specific, but the fact that Intel already makes DRM-enabled chips does influence matters.

goMac · Jul 15, 2005, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

That's right. If Apple had wanted to do it and they could have afforded to do so without losing too many customers they would have. But, times have changed and Apple's now in bed with one of the forerunners of this philosophy/technology which has such chips readily available, making this an easily accessible option for Apple. Like I said, this isn't Intel specific, but the fact that Intel already makes DRM-enabled chips does influence matters.

What would Apple even use the DRM for? The proposed DRM scheme for Longhorn back in the day didn't really even use much hardware DRM. It was a lot like the DRM the iTunes Music Store uses.

Gamoe · Jul 15, 2005, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

What would Apple even use the DRM for? The proposed DRM scheme for Longhorn back in the day didn't really even use much hardware DRM. It was a lot like the DRM the iTunes Music Store uses.

Although this document is a bit dated, it explains the push for and effect of DRM on platforms. I hope you are right. I hope Apple doesn't even consider implementing any type of DRM beyond protected AAC files.

saab95 · Jul 15, 2005, 02:31 PM

I love it! nearly 92% of all respondents choose to stick with Apple!

It's a wise and well-informed decision.

Apple computers are reliable. Their reliability has less to do with the microprocessor than it does with the operating environment.

Apple does not rely upon a third party for its operating environment solution, so it can use its skills to give its customers a machine whose OS nicely integrates all the operations in the computer.

Apple computers last year suffered from just 58 attacks by viruses and worms. Windows? nearly 60,000 attacks.

Production by Windows users is hampered further by those who find they must run virus scans on a daily basis because their machines are hampered by this malignant software.

Moving to Intel shouldn't change things one iota. Apple will still supply us with a single source solution- not a half-baked patchwork of third party garbage from Microsoft.

- - e r i k - - · Jul 15, 2005, 03:27 PM

58 attacks? What? Where? This would be a huge news item if true. Links please.

osxisfun · Jul 15, 2005, 03:34 PM

and of those 8% that "say" they are switching, I would bet only 1% of the 8% actually put their money were there mouth is...

For the first time in a long time we have a clear and about as sure as it gets roadmap to the future.

I just hope the rumor at apple nova about a 1K desktop in Jan. (ish) is true. This would affirm the feeling I have...

Apple is the new Dell...

(in a good way.)

Gamoe · Jul 15, 2005, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by saab95

I love it! nearly 92% of all respondents choose to stick with Apple!

It's a wise and well-informed decision.

Unlike the options in this poll. I bet you this figure would be significantly less if there was an intermediate option, as there rightfully should be, such as "I'll wait and see" or simply "Maybe".

Apple computers are reliable. Their reliability has less to do with the microprocessor than it does with the operating environment.

Because the operating system surely has nothing to do with the processor. And, you say this because you are well versed in the mechanics of CPU/OS interaction, no?

Apple computers last year suffered from just 58 attacks by viruses and worms. Windows? nearly 60,000 attacks.

Really? Could you please provide your source. I know of precicely 0 true viruses for Mac OS X.

Moving to Intel shouldn't change things one iota.

If you believe this you are mistaken. It will change things. If it is for better or worse is the argument, but it will most definitely change things.

Originally Posted by osxisfun

Apple is the new Dell...

(in a good way.)

I dont know how this could ever be a good thing. Please!

mitchell_pgh · Jul 15, 2005, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

Apple is the new Dell...

(in a good way.)