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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Macbook Thermal Paste (pics inside!)

Macbook Thermal Paste (pics inside!)
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Star-Fire
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May 21, 2006, 09:15 PM
 
OK so I was ambitious and opened up my MacBook to look at the paste, here is what I found:







Not as bad the MBP, but still not great lots of oozing and that will only leak heat into the air space. I reapplied Arctic Silver 5 and ran /dev/nul. Highest I saw was 79C, fans ramped up and cooled back down to 73-72C and stayed there, MUCH better then my old MBP, it would reach 90-91C.

Not that difficult to open the MB, but more different sized screws then the MBP but once inside it's very easy, only 6 screws and 2 connectors and the fan/heat pipe is loose.
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davidsi
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May 21, 2006, 10:19 PM
 
does the keyboard come off easily? or does it have those plastic connectors on the inside that u have to work off slowly. and did it make that much a difference after u reapplied the arctic silver? Also, were there any warranty stickers that u had to peel off?
     
Star-Fire  (op)
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May 21, 2006, 10:28 PM
 
It has a few clips on the right side and one in the front, but release pretty easily. The artic silver made a differance, not a huge amount though over all about 5-7º but the bottom is cooler too. Mine idles around 50º now, not sure what others have for temps.
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alphasubzero949
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May 21, 2006, 10:47 PM
 
Unbelievable.
     
Star-Fire  (op)
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May 21, 2006, 10:55 PM
 
There ya go, that's at idle with safari open.

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JAR
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May 22, 2006, 12:16 AM
 
Hey Star-Fire, I was contemplating doing the same thing you did, but I chickened out haha. Did you have to break any warranty seals? That is my main concern. I'm pretty sure my MacBook has at least as much thermal paste as yours, it's running just as hot as yours did.

Also, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of which 6 screws and connectors you had to remove, would you? =]
     
Simon
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May 22, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
Of course all those temps and that pic is kinda useless without the exact same info from before the procedure. Could you show a before/after type of comparison?
     
harrisjamieh
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May 22, 2006, 03:03 AM
 
Congrats, you just voided your 1 (or 3) year warrenty!
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Yakov
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May 22, 2006, 05:57 AM
 
dude!!! you should have taken pictures of the entire process (including breaking the warranty seal?) like unscrewing, opening, cleaning, applying, closing back up. had you done that, your post would have been an extremely valuable resource. but you didn't! argh...
     
galarneau
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May 22, 2006, 06:33 AM
 
I would be more interested to hear what the temp was BEFORE and after replacing the heatsink compound.

Don't we have any proper scientists on this board?
     
Simon
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May 22, 2006, 07:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by galarneau
Don't we have any proper scientists on this board?
There are, but you don't need scientists. You need proper documentation. What were the temps before, under what usage, at what ambient temp, etc.? Document the 'repair' task. Then thoroughly test and document the results. Look at changes and their significance. If it drops the temp from 80 to 62 idle, it's great. If it goes from 80 to 78 it's irrelevant. Especially when you recall that this fella here just blew his warranty.
     
Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 08:09 AM
 
When will people get this straight, opening your laptop does not void your warranty. If I had applied thermal paste wrong and burned up my CPU that would void the warranty, if I had slipped with a screwdriver and busted a resistor for a board that would void the warranty. You only void the warranty if something you do causes a direct failure and or can be proven to relate to a failure.

And if you notice I did list the drop in temperature, only about 5-7º, idle at 52º

85º-84º under load - 6º (As an average) = 79º-78º
59º-60º at idle - 6º = 53º-54º

Not a huge drop but the case on the bottom is cooler, sorry I don't have any inferred thermometer.

This warranty discussion has be discussed to death in the MBP forums becasuse so many have changed there paste on the MBP and there is no warrany seal in the laptop, it's just a piece of foil tape to keep some cable in place.
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icruise
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May 22, 2006, 08:15 AM
 
Actually I think it does void your warranty, but there's a good chance that Apple wouldn't know about it if you do it right. If you called Apple up and asked for them to repair your laptop and then casually mentioned that you had disassembled the entire computer, I kinda think you'd have problems getting service.
     
Hi I'm Ben
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May 22, 2006, 08:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by harrisjamieh
Congrats, you just voided your 1 (or 3) year warrenty!
as the others have said. Apple will never know he's done the procedure. His warranty is fine and now has less of a chance to even use it if his computer is running cooler.
     
wataru
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May 22, 2006, 08:36 AM
 
Apple will know because the thermal paste is no longer excessive!!!!

     
Hi I'm Ben
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May 22, 2006, 08:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by wataru
Apple will know because the thermal paste is no longer excessive!!!!

That would be giving apple way too much credit . My old iBook was missing 5 screws from the inside and had them all in the wrong places cause I just played the "whatever fits" game as i put it back together one time.

No problem getting logic board repaired when it failed.
     
JAR
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May 22, 2006, 09:53 AM
 
Star-Fire you are my hero hahaha. That's great news about the warranty, I have experience building and modding computers so this shouldnt be too difficult, but when I opened up the RAM slots I noticed the screws that hold the Macbook together are REALLY TINY! I'm gonna need to get some tweezers. I'll post some pics after I redo my thermal paste.


BTW I'm having trouble running the new version of CoreDuoTemp 0.7. I tried following their instructions on their website with setting up the keychain thing, but the directions were inaccurate and I think I messed something up. Now whenever I run CoreDuoTemp I get two error messages regarding the keychain and password, and it won't display any temps. I'd like to post before and after temps. Anybody know about the problem I'm talking about?
     
Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 10:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by wataru
Apple will know because the thermal paste is no longer excessive!!!!


LOL how true!
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stuffedmonkey
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May 22, 2006, 10:04 AM
 
I used to work as a MG ant one of the Apple stores. It is not uncommon to see missing screws and metallic tape from previous repairs done *by other service providers*. Scary stuff, but I guess someone has to train thier rookie techs. The cool thing about the Apple training is that they have a ton of old dead machines for you to take apart and put abck together before you have to do it on a customer's machine.

As for warranty voidage - just make sure you know what you are doing if you choose to take it apart. I might do so myself, but I used to do it for a living. That being said, if you change the paste youself and all is well, you are pretty much good. Now if you are calling Applecare and you decide to tell them you did this the next time you are trying to send your machine in for some logic board problem, they will tell you to pound sand...

I just hope that the issue gets resolved by Apple. They have some incredibly bright people working there. If some Product Champion is out there reading this - thermal paste should not look like a double stuff oreo when complete!
     
ghporter
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May 22, 2006, 10:05 AM
 
That's a lot better than in the MBP, but still too much. Not way too much-I'd grade it a C (with the pictures from the MBP manual getting a D-). It's hard to tell how much was applied AFTER it's been squished, but you can judge somewhat by how much is left on the processor and heat sink when they're separated. Note that there is a little left on both of those surfaces-more than enough to do the job on EITHER SURFACE. I'd scrape the heat sink clean and go with what's left-and I think the temps will go down as a result, too!

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Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by puffarthur
Star-Fire you are my hero hahaha. That's great news about the warranty, I have experience building and modding computers so this shouldnt be too difficult, but when I opened up the RAM slots I noticed the screws that hold the Macbook together are REALLY TINY! I'm gonna need to get some tweezers. I'll post some pics after I redo my thermal paste.


BTW I'm having trouble running the new version of CoreDuoTemp 0.7. I tried following their instructions on their website with setting up the keychain thing, but the directions were inaccurate and I think I messed something up. Now whenever I run CoreDuoTemp I get two error messages regarding the keychain and password, and it won't display any temps. I'd like to post before and after temps. Anybody know about the problem I'm talking about?
Just get a small set of Jewler's screwdriver and magnitize them a bit to hold the screws on the tip, works like a charm!
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gary42556
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May 22, 2006, 06:07 PM
 
When looking at your image I wouldn't say that the CPU had extreme amounts of paste, at least not directly on the core, It look as though most of it has been squished to the side, the center only has a thin coating. A bit too much, but not insane. However, I think it would be wise of apple to apply a lot less paste.

Heat is in fact my only concern with the macbook, a whine you can get fixed, but I do not want a notebook that will fry me alive.
     
EdipisReks
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May 22, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by harrisjamieh
Congrats, you just voided your 1 (or 3) year warrenty!
only if he broke something in the process.
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Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by cybervision_
When looking at your image I wouldn't say that the CPU had extreme amounts of paste, at least not directly on the core, It look as though most of it has been squished to the side, the center only has a thin coating. A bit too much, but not insane. However, I think it would be wise of apple to apply a lot less paste.

Heat is in fact my only concern with the macbook, a whine you can get fixed, but I do not want a notebook that will fry me alive.
Well the problem with the extra that squeezes out is it will radiate the heat out into the air and inturn make the case hotter, right now my Macbook is happily surfing the web at 39ºC, so seems like the artic silver is getting more effective, which I've noticed before, it takes a day or 2 to "set-up"
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davidsi
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May 22, 2006, 07:31 PM
 
dude 39 is awesome...thast prob what my old ibook 12inch is at. i think im gonna run out and get some artic silver
     
jsousa
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May 22, 2006, 08:28 PM
 
Yeah Arctic silver can even take a few weeks to properly setup. And supisivly that includes cycling it. Running it at 100% CPU for a few hours, turning it off and letting it cool. Then letting it idle, cool, and then repeating theprocess 6 or 7 times.

Could be a myth, but its an old X86 PC Overclocking tradition.
     
ghporter
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May 22, 2006, 09:02 PM
 
The cycling to "settle" Arctic Silver is a lot more myth than fact. It DOES allow you to figure out whether or not you're going to fry your processor, but that's all. Arctic Silver, like all other heat sink compounds, just sits there, though they may all spread just a bit when they get hot. Basic heat sink compound is silicon grease filled with zinc oxide, so it doesn't expand much when heated, and Arctic Silver just adds some other chemicals to the zinc oxide.

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force838
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May 22, 2006, 09:15 PM
 
dude, you're my hero. i was going to do it this weekend, but i chickened out. my macbook isn't even running hot, right now, i've been surfing the web for about 45 minutes plugged in and coreduotemp is showing 59 degC. i've got it set on a targus stand, so maybe that's helping.

i just wanted to open it up and fiddle around in there LOL. this is my first mac and my first laptop. it's funny, i'm just so used to tinkering with my windoze boxes, as soon as i bought my macbook, i've wanted to open it up.

edit: as an aside, where would i get such a small screwdriver?
     
clbell
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May 22, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
I got mine from Lowes hardware. Any decent hardware store should have it.



Originally Posted by MuadDib420
dude, you're my hero. i was going to do it this weekend, but i chickened out. my macbook isn't even running hot, right now, i've been surfing the web for about 45 minutes plugged in and coreduotemp is showing 59 degC. i've got it set on a targus stand, so maybe that's helping.

i just wanted to open it up and fiddle around in there LOL. this is my first mac and my first laptop. it's funny, i'm just so used to tinkering with my windoze boxes, as soon as i bought my macbook, i've wanted to open it up.

edit: as an aside, where would i get such a small screwdriver?
     
aristobrat
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May 22, 2006, 10:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
The cycling to "settle" Arctic Silver is a lot more myth than fact.
FWIW (and respectfully), this is the manufacturers website:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...structions.htm

Important Reminder:

Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.
     
hldan
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May 22, 2006, 10:39 PM
 
I have to ask this question, "Who in heck gives doodly squat about this thermal grease"????
Most day to day computer users and power users such as myself don't think about stuff like this or care one way or another what's inside their computer or any electronic device they buy. Most people just turn it on and use it and if it's hot then it's hot and if it whines then it whines but most people could care less if it's hot then it must be the thermal grease and need to take a look inside and see how much thermal grease Apple has applied to the IC chip.

I'm not trying to flame anyone for posting this thermal grease thing but it's getting worn out like an old pair of shoes. Unless most people are gonna crack open everything they buy and dissect it then we can't do anything about what a manfacturer does when building their products.
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Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 11:38 PM
 
Well some people do and I'm just posting the information for those who do to see. To me it's like checking under the hood of a car, I like to do things like that. If you aren't interested just pass it by.

Also I've posted a link with pics on which screws you have to remove to open the MacBook up, if you happen to find a mistake please let me know so I can fix it!

Here is the link: Open your MacBook if you so like.
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badsey
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May 22, 2006, 11:48 PM
 
right now my Macbook is happily surfing the web at 39ºC, so seems like the artic silver is getting more effective, which I've noticed before, it takes a day or 2 to "set-up"
when you are able to go from 70-80-90 deg C to 39 deg C that is a huge performance difference and your chips will last longer.

Make sure you read those artic silver instructions also = it's a common mistake for the amateur computer builder to use way to much artic silver. The less you can get away with the better = your CPU temp will tell you when you are doing it right.

Does the Dual-Core chip actually come out from it's mount/socket? What is the other chip for? (2 chips on the heatsink)
     
Star-Fire  (op)
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May 22, 2006, 11:54 PM
 
Well 39-40 is at idle so don't expect that all the time. I believe the other chip is the Intel GMA950, and the CPU is soldered on.
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jsousa
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May 23, 2006, 12:25 AM
 
A lot of us have a hard time with the motto

"if it aint broke don't fix it"

But the thing is I plan on cracking it open and replacing the thermal paste before I even plug it in. Its modding fever.
     
hldan
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May 23, 2006, 12:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Star-Fire
Well some people do and I'm just posting the information for those who do to see. To me it's like checking under the hood of a car, I like to do things like that. If you aren't interested just pass it by.

Also I've posted a link with pics on which screws you have to remove to open the MacBook up, if you happen to find a mistake please let me know so I can fix it!

Here is the link: Open your MacBook if you so like.

Although I didn't use these words my point about this was why post pics like this inducing people to crack open their brand new computer and risk voiding the MacBooks warranty (and you are welcome to do this yourself) just to wipe off some grease that people "think" Apple over lubricated the I.C chip with to make the computer run cooler.

Now while this idea may show results of a cooler running computer it will indeed void your warranty as Apple does not support doing this method. Now if I am wrong about Apple not supporting this then correct me.
This is not a car and this is why Apple does not make an easy access hood to get to the I.C. chip and who's to say that this thermal grease isn't over-lubricated for a reason. Apple lubicated it that way for good reason, tampering with it could potentially damage something else in the long run.

This is why I have an issue with you adding to the small list of people sharing pics like this, people come here for help and will follow most Mac Users advice and instruction so you are helping people void their warranty on a brand new computer as well as putting themselves and their computer at risk if they don't know what they are doing, however to each his own...
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davidsi
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May 23, 2006, 01:07 AM
 
omg i jsut did it. i ahve a 2.0ghz 512mb ram. it was pretty nerve racking. esp since i dont have the best history with clips.(top right and bottom right) when i took off the keybaord somehitng rattled and that freaked me out. apparantly it was just the clips..they slide off to the left and can become dislodged pretty easily. i used this guide at www.ifixit.com/Guide/ it has it step by step.
instead of removing hte fan before the heatsink. i just pulled off both at once. kidna liek what star fire did.

theere was only one tape u had to remove..and thats the tape form hte heatsink to hte opitcal drive. it is a metal tape so i pulled off half of it and then put it back on when i finihsed.....since it was metal i could smooth it out. the cores looked exactly like star fires picture. it looks like instead of thermal compound they used a thermal tape.. something pretty common on oem heatsink/cpu combinations. so they dindt use excessive goop they just dindt use as effective stuff as they could have.

i have one of those plastic picnic table things...so im sure the computer on wood or some kind of metal would be even cooler. another thing i noticed is that the bottom of the laptop is cooler. even with the cores at 86 i could still have it on my bare skin.
pre (with ac power) max load 100% load 86 C
borwsing/aim 65 C
post artic silver (with ac power) max load 81 C
browsing /aim/ 56 C

is this gonna make my macbook last longer? i dunno. it sure feels nicer thoguh. haha and it fulfills my itch to mod.

ill post if my temps come dwon after a couple days too. and sorry no pics... no camera

on another note. taking aprat the macbook is so easy...im wondering if ih osuld return my applecare... i could prob buy parts and replace most things myself.
( Last edited by davidsi; May 23, 2006 at 01:27 AM. )
     
Simon
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May 23, 2006, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Star-Fire
Well the problem with the extra that squeezes out is it will radiate the heat out into the air and inturn make the case hotter...
You see, that's something I really have trouble to believe.

In countless threads we just settled on the fact that heat paste in large amounts is basically a thermal insulator. And one property of thermal insulators is that they conduct heat very poorly. So if that's true (and that's what all these people redoing the paste obviously believe) then the gobs of paste around the heat sinks shouldn't be able to move much thermal energy form the hot CPU to the cooler surroundings. In other words, the gobs might look ugly, but ultimately they aren't capable of radiating a lot of heat at all, because the energy just doesn't get transported.

You guys have to decide what you want to believe. It's one or the other. Not both.

That said, IMHO the ultimate question is how thick the layer between the hot IC and the heat sink is. If you apply loads of thermal paste but then squeeze out most of it, the result should be similar to applying only a very thin layer right from the start. The former method however, requires you to be able to apply a large amount of transverse force. And I highly doubt those two or three tiny screws that clamp the heat sink onto the MB are going to cut it. And that IMHO is the real problem. If Apple/Asus dumps a truck load of paste onto the CPU but then can't evenly disperse a thin layer by applying proper force, the heat transport will be decreased. And that's when applying only small amounts of paste starts making sense.
     
ghporter
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May 23, 2006, 07:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristobrat
FWIW (and respectfully), this is the manufacturers website:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...structions.htm
They have a good point-their formula is a lot less amorphous than basic heat sink compound. But note that I said "a lot more myth than fact," not that there was no truth to it at all. Using ANY heat sink compound will immediately provide far more thermal conduction than using none at all. So while Arctic Silver says it will take a while for "maximum conductivity" to be reached, that doesn't mean you can ONLY thermal-cycle the computer until the Arctic Silver is settled. It just means that you'll see gradually (slightly) lower temps as the stuff settles. My comment was aimed at the fanatical users who obsess about details beyond what is practical and measurable.

There are overclockers who literally spend WEEKS tweaking their equipment before they start using it (some don't even turn it on until they've had several days of preparation with heat guns and contact thermometers), but they are working well outside the normal envelope. For a regular computer user, properly applying the correct amount of any heat sink compound is all that's needed, even if that compound is Arctic Silver.

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