[malvolio]

<nonzero> (unregistered) said: Apple really dropped the ball with OS X if it will not run on a G3 400 with 384 MB RAM.
Well, since it runs BEAUTIFULLY on my 350Mhz G3 iMac with 320MB RAM, the ball obviously was NOT dropped. QED.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>Well, since it runs BEAUTIFULLY on my 350Mhz G3 iMac with 320MB RAM, the ball obviously was NOT dropped. QED. </STRONG>

What exactly do you do with your computer? Play or work?

[klatuu]

Originally posted by mr_sonicblue:
<STRONG>

No, OS X is not the bext Unix implementation there is. But, it is the only consumer-level OS with any Unix support what-so-ever. OS X is the broadest range OS ever conceived. But, it does not beat any OS in every area (as should be expected).</STRONG>

Right!

But OSX is the best combination of different worlds!
As a long time Mac user i tried different Linux-Distributions at work. O.K. Linux is good as a server platform, but on the desktop?
KDE and GNOME just copy the windows desktop.
Where are the new and better features? Where is the drag-and-drop with EVERY program, and so on. The feeling is just bad.
OSX is much better at that and the future will bring more.

MS-Word, Excel,Powerpoint, Apache, MySQL, PHP, GIMP, Project Builder, TUX-Racer at the same time on a Mac without reboot!
(I use OSX for PHPNuke development)

Before Mac OS X you needed for the same programs three different computers.

Again, I think Mac OS X is the best combination of different worlds and personally I don't need another UNIX box any more.

greetings
klatuu

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by moki:
<STRONG>...which reminds me. NeXT was one of the few computer systems I can remember to ship with pre-release System Software. I can't even remember the version number, I think it was .91 or something like that (I'd have to look it up in my NeXT book).

I believe it stayed at various pre-release versions of system software for a while, too (they didn't get to 1.0 until many months after the computers shipped). Looks like Steve, Avie et al have been doing this for some time, but they decided to call it 1.0 this time (OS X) instead of being honest about it!

(Note: I do love OS X and run it daily; couldn't think of being in OS 9 unless I had to -- but let's be honest, it isn't finished, and it is too slow).

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: moki ]</STRONG>

Didn't the 128K Mac ship with System 0.97? I'm not 100% positive about this, but I think that's correct.

[mumble]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
<STRONG>Didn't the 128K Mac ship with System 0.97? I'm not 100% positive about this, but I think that's correct.</STRONG>

Yep, and it was slow and buggy till the 0.1 update

[FERRO]

I have had some experience with OS X... My experience was not very pleasing, The basic structure of the system is different... it was very disorienting. I understand it is still a child, the look can be replicated on OS 9 so As for the Aqua fell of it... big deal, Kalidescope can do that.

I hear that it is a great deal less likely to crash or freeze.... that would be cool... the dock and general GUI can be replicated using other apps....

It draws the eyes, and even after several real upgrades I still dont see it becoming a OS superpower... I'll stick with OS 9.x below ten.

I feel in love with OS 7 then OS 8 then OS 9.x, OS X was a turning point for me.

[madra [again!]]

to the people who peddle the "what do you expect for a 1,0 release...?" line......

1,0 was released after probably the biggest beta testing session of all time. those hundreds[?] of thousands of people who did participate in the beta test actually had to pay for the privilege of doing so.

i [and i presume i wasn't alone] thought apple had a bloody cheek making me cough up �29,99 [insert your currency equivalent] in order to test their software for them but i bit the bullet and paid up, reasoning that at the very least a beta program of this scale would ensure that the 1,0 version, when released would be pretty much complete at least as far as core features were concerned.

i never expected that every exotic driver or 3rd party app/hardware would be supported out of the box but i did at least expect a mac OS to be able to work with mac hardware [volume/brightness buttons on pismos... function keys etc.. etc] and expect the central foundation app [the finder] to work properly.

this may be a 1,0 release in name but in reality apple had months of feedback from countless thousands of users of PB before X was finalised and they still didn't get it even nearly right.

to make these "what do you expect from a 1,0 release...?" allowances as if version 1,0 of X equated to version 1,0 of some app fred bloggs has written in his bedroom and tested on one or two machines, is to let apple off the hook far too easily in my book.

to the people who say "it's a massive job writing an OS. if you don't like what apple's programmers come up with it try writing your own..."

duh?!... i trust you'll adopt the same attitude next time you go on a flight and find out that the pilot has crashed on his last three outings... or you go into hospital for an op and are told the surgeon's last 4 patients have died... "oh well. it's a hard job being a pilot/doing an operation. if i don't like it i should just bugger off and do it myself."

guess what?... apple pays these people to write software [and i presume pays them very well]. maybe if they aren't very good at it they should look elsewhere for a job. like most of the rest of the world has to do.

Ok, so after a whole ( not quite ) 4 months you guys think you know everything about OS X. Well, when Puma is released and if it's everything we hope for your going to come off sounding like a lot of spoiled children with egg on your face. I say the jury's still out and the day is still very young. It could be that OS X is a bust but, it's so unbelieveably early to make that call. In the mean time you are still getting work done in 9.1 while being able to see what X is going to be like. This is thanks to an OS that can run the new stuff while still running your old OS just fine. I've never heard of that level of backward compatability! Maybe Apple didn't have everything ready to go in March but, from what I heard at the last MW I didn't expect that to be the case or weren't you listening? As far as DVD playback and the like well. anyone who has played computer games is very aware that announced release dates can change. That's just a fact of life in the software world. Finishing an OS like X is hunreds of times more labor intensive. My advice: chill out and quit waiting for Rome to be built in a day.

[msuper69]

What a silly topic. X a waste of time? Hardly.

[ctt1wbw]

Yes, I think using Windows is a waste of time.

[weinc2001]

OS X sucks. It is slow and complex. If you want to be a DOS retard for the rest of your life then, you'll love OS X.

Originally posted by weinc2001:
<STRONG>OS X sucks. It is slow and complex. If you want to be a DOS retard for the rest of your life then, you'll love OS X.</STRONG>

There' sjust so many things wrong with this post, I'd just have no idea where to begin. The combination 3rd-grade syntax to the just-plain-wrong content to the foul insult...well, it amazes me. Maybe one of the mods can take this post out behind the woodshed and put a bullet through it's head.

[timster]

duh?!... i trust you'll adopt the same attitude next time you go on a flight and find out that the pilot has crashed on his last three outings... or you go into hospital for an op and are told the surgeon's last 4 patients have died... "oh well. it's a hard job being a pilot/doing an operation. if i don't like it i should just bugger off and do it myself."

If I was headed for an op, and I knew the surgeon had botched and killed his last 4 patients. I'd ask for another surgeon.

If I knew an operating system wasnt performing up to my expectations, I'd use another operating system.

[Spirit_VW]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>

What exactly do you do with your computer? Play or work?</STRONG>

I just love that when somebody says something positive about OS X, some folks come out with smart-ass remarks about not doing "real work" on their Macs.

Get over it, dude.

[SpeedRacer]

I have two problems with the posts below...

Originally posted by &lt;jimmac&gt;:
<STRONG> Well, when Puma is released and if it's everything we hope for your going to come off sounding like a lot of spoiled children with egg on your face. </STRONG>

Isn't this the same thing that was said about the "secret" OS X release beyond 4K78 that everyone was finding in their initial OS X retail boxes several months ago? "Well K78 may suck, but you just wait..." Again, let me know when i can stop waiting.

<STRONG>

In the mean time you are still getting work done in 9.1 while being able to see what X is going to be like. This is thanks to an OS that can run the new stuff while still running your old OS just fine. I've never heard of that level of backward compatability! </STRONG>

Truly industry-first type of backward compatibility eh? I seem to recall Apple doing this in a much smoother and transparent manner with the migration from the 680X0 architecture to the PowerPC.

Yet perhaps more important to note here is that there's another company doing the same thing right now... with their next generation OS... and allegedly achieving greater performance in their "classic compatibility mode" than running that environment natively. The company: Microsoft. The OS: Windows XP.

And that's what worries me.

If Apple can't compete in creating an OS that rivals the mainstream in both ease of use and performance i'm sorry... they've really lose hold of the single most important attribute justifying their continued existence in the marketplace - a tighter, more enjoyable end user experience. The title of this thread was designed to controversial, what's really scary here is how many Mac users here are in agreement with it...

Speed

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: SpeedRacer ]

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

Gosh some of you really need to learn patience. Apple is still fully supporting OS 9.1, in fact, they are shipping it as the default OS on all Mac computers. You cannot even buy a Mac with OS X as the default OS.

As for quotes like this:

apple pays these people to write software [and i presume pays them very well]. maybe if they aren't very good at it they should look elsewhere for a job. like most of the rest of the world has to do.

What a load of ignorance. Regardless of talent, the OS X team has limited resources and a monumental task facing them. No other OS has been built from scratch that is nearly complex as OS X. Ok, yes, it isn't really from "scratch", but the implementation of a Unix core with a user GUI has never been done (not to mention the Classic environment, a whole new can of worms that sucked most of Apple's resources up). You know why nobody ever tried making a user friendly GUI Unix? Because it's a BITCH to do it!

All other current user OS on the market are the result of many years of refinement. Windows and Mac OS date back to the 80s. So it is not reasonable to compare them to OS X. Even so, OS X is BETTER than Windows or Mac OS at most tasks, but it does need optimization and refinement.

What Apple did is prioritize. First priority was to make a working OS X, with a fully functional Classic environment. No easy task, and they did it well...although Classic may have a few glitches it DOES work and it works well. Amazing.

Now the next priority is optimization. We will soon be seeing performance gains. Not surprising, but very welcome. It's been only 4 months, and if we do get performance optimizations of something so complex as OS X this soon, then what an amazing turnaround time.

After the performace optimizations, Apple will be able to focus more resources on refining the GUI. Remember the the current OS X GUI is the minimal GUI that Apple could make. Priority 1 was to make the OS WORK, not to hone the GUI. Probably sometime next year, I bet that OS X gets a major GUI refinement. Much needed, but not surprising.

Think of this: how long did it take Apple to make OS 9? Over a year? And how different is OS 9 from OS 8.6? LOL, that small, incremental change in the Mac OS represented over a year of hard work....and yet now you people expect even MORE advances within the timeframe of a few months. Unbelievable.

Apple has subjected none of you to an expensive advertising campaign. Apple has not forced anyone to use OS X...in fact they have dissuaded people from using it by making OS 9 the default OS. For all practical purposes, OS 9.1 is still Apple's primary OS. And yet you all complain as if Apple yanked OS 9 from your hard drives and gave you OS X, "if you want control of your mac again then use OS X, or else!". Whatever.

Everybody is so damn spoiled it's really sad. Take a breather, drink a beer, go outside and have some fun. You can use OS 9.1 as your main OS if OS X isn't good enough for you (I do). But within a year, I predict that OS X will blossom into a hell of an OS. Maybe it won't be as refined as OS 9.1, and it might not be as quick as Windows NT, but I believe it will shine brighter than any other available OS.

Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>Ok, yes, it isn't really from "scratch", but the implementation of a Unix core with a user GUI has never been done (not to mention the Classic envir</STRONG>

So what was that whole NeXT thing about?

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

NeXT didn't have as many features as OS X, nor as many expectations. The GUI of Next was quite minimal compared to today's GUI expectations.

[smacintush]

Gosh some of you really need to learn patience. Apple is still fully supporting OS 9.1, in fact, they are shipping it as the default OS on �

Wow, you have summed up my WHOLE opinion on the whole issue! Quick, someone e-mail this to Terri Zamore!

[Kate]

A waiste of time? No more! I had it with X and erased this 1GB bloat annoyance.
I am using the partion now for LinuxPPC, which happily works out of the box as advertised. Anyone feeling unhappy with X? Try LinuxPPC, it is a bargain!

Puma? I think I wait till they moved the evolutionary tree of mammals up to intelligent animals.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by &lt;No promises.&gt;:
<STRONG>We don't want promises anymore. Apple lost the ability to promise anything a long time ago. We want results now.</STRONG>

What's your problem ? Apple made promises (and will always do, because that's the way business works), AND SOME are not fulfilled yet.

Don't be so impatient, OS X is not finished, so give Apple due time to perfect it. And what we've seen so far, although it might not be fully functional yet, is far more promising than anything other OS out there...

So if you don't like it (yet), well, stick to 9.1.

so far,
-t

[Doyle Creighbaum]

Top ten sub-concience thoughts when using OS 9:

10) Oh� I hope I saved before I checked my email in OE, I don't want to lose that data�

9) I sure wish they would hurry up & finish OSX�

8) Man�this aqua appearance is not nearly as good as the real thing�

7) Geez, I need ANOTHER Carbon Lib update!!

6) Come on HD, spin up!!

5) Dude, I can do this DTP stuff�why can't I find a job?

4) I wonder if there is any news on OS X� Lets see�MacNN.com�

3) Disc burner, yeah right�Toast, here I come�

2) I'll bet Bill Gates & Steve Jobs & Mike Dell are best friends in real life�

1) Dude, why doesn't OS X have a restart button in the SD panel?

Top ten sub concience thoughts in Mac OS X:

10) It's cool� It's cool�just chekin' ma' mail�

9) I sure wish they would hurry up & finish OSX�

8) All this talk of Aqua, do I need to pee?

7) Man, I wish my DTP apps were Carbon�probably have to fork over buku bucs�

6) Come on Finder window, scroll down�

5) Dude, I can do this DTP stuff�why can't I find a job, what if OS X is not gonna be there when I do?

4) I wonder if there is any news on OS X� Lets see�SoftwareUpdate�

3) Crap, I need to burn�OS 9, here I come�

2) Man, Win XP is really getting on my nerves. I dont want junk email about WinXP from ZD Net�

1) Man�I need to get a life�


OSX a waste of time? Aww I don't know about that.

But all those restarts in OS 9 a waste of time? Heck Yeah!!!!