[Ozmodiar]

If you're worried about your iMac FP 800 running Panther, then my TiBook 400 is going to choke on this thing!

As a side note, that Finder is starting to grow on me...

[gthyb]

yeah i'm excited about the finder, actually. still not too keen on the brushed metal, though. i don't mind the new theme, though.

looking forward to any dock improvements.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

So does Expose work WITHOUT QE?

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
So does Expose work WITHOUT QE?

Judging buy the requirements you need a QE enabled machine to install Panther, at least at the moment.

[entrox]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
So does Expose work WITHOUT QE?

Why shouldn't it? If they can transform windows when minimising and scale icons in the dock without QE, they can surely also scale windows and translate them elsewhere without QE.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by entrox:
Why shouldn't it? If they can transform windows when minimising and scale icons in the dock without QE, they can surely also scale windows and translate them elsewhere without QE.

But Finder zooming is only smooth on QE machines.
Perhaps you will need it for the zooming effect, but it will work OK without it.

Would be nice if somone who has the preview could check, or evern post some screenshots/movies.

[Greenland is for toy dogs]

Any idea what the minimum requirements are for Panther? I see some are discussing that QE will be a requirement anyway. Any links available to confirm the min and rec specs?

[Gee4orce]

Here are some tidbits that I've gleaned from the Panther preview pages, that might have escaped your attention (or not):

• "support for popular Linux APIs" - could mean much easier/faster porting of Linux s/w
• The Network icon will now actually do something ! Browse Mac, Windows and Unix shares
• The system can ask for a password when waking from sleep - yay !
• Preview highlights the matches found when searching a PDF document.
• Incoming faxes can be auto-forwarded as a PDF to any email address.

[Greenland is for toy dogs]

Anything about Windows users being able to see Panther users on the network easily? Any changes there I wonder. Samba in OSX is very handy, but I still have problems letting windows users in. And no, I don't like having to set up a guest user just to do this...

[Zadian]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
[*] The system can ask for a password when waking from sleep - yay !

That's already possible in 10.2.

[edit: removed the line with preview]

[mineralomac]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it struck me that the fast user switching feature could be modified very easily to be used as multiple desktops for a single user (somethig a lot of people were asking for). If you had several dummy accounts for yourself, you could switch from one to the other without entering a password.

Questions: Can you copy and paste between documents open in different accounts?

Would there be problems with permissions and sharing files between accounts?

Can you use this feature to have multiple copies of the same app open (I know there are other third party apps that let you do this, but this would seem like a more elegant solution)?

Anyway, just a thought

Rich

[brainchild2b]

It seems like apple spend alot of time working on the core of the OS and making it 64 bit, rewriting and optimizing lots. I don't think they have many of the features done yet.

That's why it won't be around for a while (shipping) gives them plenty of time to tweak.

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by Zadian:
That's already possible in 10.2.

Nope.

(jeez - why is everything so HUGE in Safari 1.0?)

[aecheylon]

Re: things looking bigger in Safari...

Safari's default font size is now 16, which matches all other modern browsers. For why this is good, see: zeldman.com

[lookmark]

Or you can easily change it back to how it was before -- Lucida Grande 14pt.

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by mineralomac:
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it struck me that the fast user switching feature could be modified very easily to be used as multiple desktops for a single user (somethig a lot of people were asking for). If you had several dummy accounts for yourself, you could switch from one to the other without entering a password.

Questions: Can you copy and paste between documents open in different accounts?

Would there be problems with permissions and sharing files between accounts?

Can you use this feature to have multiple copies of the same app open (I know there are other third party apps that let you do this, but this would seem like a more elegant solution)?

Anyway, just a thought

Rich

good questions. I wonder myself. How do apps behave in multiple environments? Will they politely note that someone else is using them, or will they be smart enough to stop work on the othe account and pay attention to you?

Copy/past would be cool too. Multiple desktops!

[dont.wanna.tell]

Does anybody of you know something about the filesystem?

Is this still HFS+ or something new?

cu Martin

[Zadian]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Nope.

Oh - you are right. The screensaver can be password protected.
Sorry

[clarkgoble]

It is widely rumored that 10.3 will have a new file system incorporating a better UI for handling journalling as well as offering more metadata. However nothing has been officially mentioned on it.

[adamk]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
It is widely rumored that 10.3 will have a new file system incorporating a better UI for handling journalling as well as offering more metadata. However nothing has been officially mentioned on it.

i wonder if this is how the FileVault works? steve said that it encrypts/decrypts on the fly so it seems that it could simply be handled seamlessly at the file system level if that option were selected. i would like to see metadata support as well.

and smart folders aka piles aka saved searches.

adam

[Millennium]

Originally posted by entrox:
I wouldn't interpret it that way. I'm pretty sure Panther will run on all hardware that Jaguar runs on. But I wouldn't expect Pixlet to run flawlessly in full-screen on anything under a GHz machine - it will probably start skipping frames.

Exactly.

Pixlet is a hog, in many ways. It uses lossless compression, so the movies will be comparatively huge, and it's going to be incredibly processor-intensive to play.

However, this is all fine, because this codec is not meant to be played. It's meant as an editing format, and its features (such as the fact that there is no interframe compression) are geared towards the video-editing market. The result is a format which is much more convenient to edit than any MPEG format, h.323, DV, or whatever, but isn't meant to be distributed, mostly because the file size is so freakin huge.

The idea is this. You take your source video, put it into Pixlet format (which incurs no loss in quality because the compression is lossless), do your editing, and then export to whatever format you want.

[aecheylon]

It is widely rumored that 10.3 will have a new file system incorporating a better UI for handling journalling as well as offering more metadata. However nothing has been officially mentioned on it.

I seem to recall Jobs saying during the keynote something about a new UFS filesystem. He said it quickly, almost in passing. Does anyone else remember this?

[jb8748]

Looking at the pictures in the Panther sneak preview the stripes have gone from Aqua. You can't tell on the brushed metal stuff but it shows on the 'Mail' page.

Anyone know if the transparency is gone?

James

[wildcard]

Since a lot of heat related issues with 12" Powerbooks are alleviated by deletion or management of the powermanagement.xlm file, does anyone have any ideas if 10.3 may address this issue?

I'd be psyched to see if anyone who owns one and has the developer release of 10.3 noticed any difference in heat or other power-management related issues

(if this ends up as a better fit in the Powerbook forum, please relocate it...)

[Nonsuch]

What is the likelihood that there are still significant features waiting to be rolled into Panther? Don't the developers need a reasonably complete copy to code against? Unless they're going to release another, more fully-featured beta, it doesn't seem likely to me that we'll end up with much more than we've been shown. Corrections welcome.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
What is the likelihood that there are still significant features waiting to be rolled into Panther? Don't the developers need a reasonably complete copy to code against? Unless they're going to release another, more fully-featured beta, it doesn't seem likely to me that we'll end up with much more than we've been shown. Corrections welcome.

We haven't seen any changes to the dock - developers don't need to see a new dock and Apple could easily update the the Dock.app.

There could be other new features we haven't seen yet - they have to have something to talk about the next 5-6 months

[boyracer]

I'd like users of Panther to post here with details on the speed of the Finder under 10.3.

10.2's Finder slows to a crawl during Finder-based networking activity.

I'm hoping that under 10.3, when I'm copying a file from the network down to my Mac, that operations in apps like Safari do not slow down as they do in 10.2.

I'm not dreaming these slowdowns; you're all familiar with them, right?

My hope for 10.3's Finder is that it is much more multi-threaded so that it never bogs down the system.

[Spheric Harlot]

I'd think that we got the distilled public-consumption version of Panther in the keynote.

I'd further think that everything beyond that is subject to NDAs.

-s*

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by jb8748:
Looking at the pictures in the Panther sneak preview the stripes have gone from Aqua. You can't tell on the brushed metal stuff but it shows on the 'Mail' page.

Anyone know if the transparency is gone?

James

No its not, menus are still mildly transparent, they look much better than Jag, they are smoother and have seperators.

Great improvment.

[Superchicken]

I get the feeling Apple is hiding some still. Most likely they gave the developers what was needed as far as to test compatability, but not other stuff.

could this also mean updates to the iLife Apps with Panther?

[Superchicken]

Side note, how is Classic in Panther?

I have some classic apps that I don't have the cash to upgrade yet. heck I don't even know if I'll be able to afford the iBook when I go to buy for college heh, so yeah any info on how my classic apps woudl run would be great. Using Dreamweaver and Fireworks 3 in classic under OS X.1 is ultra painful.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
I get the feeling Apple is hiding some still. Most likely they gave the developers what was needed as far as to test compatability, but not other stuff.

Absolutely. They gave the developers a bunch of stuff that they needed to know for their own apps, and made a stable build otherwise. I'm sure there are mor ethings that are being played with that developers can inherit or will be updated on in the coming months.

[Taipan]

Hi!

Has anybody heard anything about folders in the dock being spring-loaded in Panther?

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Millennium:
The idea is this. You take your source video, put it into Pixlet format (which incurs no loss in quality because the compression is lossless), do your editing, and then export to whatever format you want.

With Pixlet being so great, I'm really curious about DV. What's the point of using Pixlet to edit in if I have a DV camera. The video is already in DV and I can't make it better, so is there any point is converting it to Pixlet before editing? If there is no point, what is the source of Pixlet video? Is this for those using film cameras? That's a pretty small market for them to be including this in the OS. You'd think they'd package it up and let people choose to DL it if that were the case.

So I guess I'm just confused about Pixlet.

[Hozie]

Originally posted by Xeo:
With Pixlet being so great, I'm really curious about DV. What's the point of using Pixlet to edit in if I have a DV camera. The video is already in DV and I can't make it better, so is there any point is converting it to Pixlet before editing? If there is no point, what is the source of Pixlet video? Is this for those using film cameras? That's a pretty small market for them to be including this in the OS. You'd think they'd package it up and let people choose to DL it if that were the case.

So I guess I'm just confused about Pixlet.

Good point... I was wondering the exact same thing. And, by the way, I believe Pixlet is NOT lossless. Any codec (whether based on wavelet technology or not) is lossy by definition, otherwise it'd just be classified as raw video.

So therefore, I think Pixlet is a codec that aims to complement DV in the sense that it can be used for really high-def images with an equivalent loss as DV, but with a better filesize From the panther page:

"Pixlet is the first studio-grade codec for filmmakers. Pixlet provides 20-25:1 compression, allowing a 75MB/sec series of frames to be delivered in a 3MB/sec movie, similar to DV data rates. Or a series of frames that are over 6GB in size can be contained within a 250MB movie" (bold mine).

[Boondoggle]

I'm no expert but I think it could still be basically lossless. Pixels that are identical frame to frame don't need to be characterized for each frame the way they are for raw footage, and a simple "do over" marker of some kind can replace the data for that pixel. while you are losing the data for these pixels frame to frame, you are not losing the quality from the end result.

And programs like stuffit certainly can compress files "losslessly". A 20:1 ratio sounds impressive for a truly lossless codec though.

footage with a lot of motion/panning where lots of pixels change every frame probaby results in lower file compression ratios... Just a guess.

[Diggory Laycock]

Pixlet is not for The Rest Of Us - It's just for Movie People - so they can shift compressed video around nets for previewing (without visible artifacts) - It's not a codec that you'll see replacing DV, or the MPEGs.

[smeger]

I'm pretty sure that Pixlet is lossy. Just the fact that they're using wavelets alone implies that - this means they're transforming the four-dimensional image data (3D + time) into a high-dimensional wavelet space. Generally (but not always), this sort of transform is approximate unless the destination space is infinitely-dimensional, which Pixlet obviously isn't.

For you audio types, this is sort of like approximating Yoda's voice by playing a bunch of Radiohead samples at the same time. If you pick your Radiohead samples really carefully and adjust the volume of the individual samples really carefully, (and have an infinite amount of time to spend playing with it), you could actually get pretty close to Yoda's voice. But you wouldn't wind up with exactly the same audio sample. But, you've done a lossy compression - the final result sounds pretty close to the original, but instead of storing the entire Yoda sample, you only need to store "sample #7 at 40% volume plus sample #9 at 27% volume + ...".

Okay, that was a weird and overly geeky example - but anyway, I think Pixlet is lossy.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned what I think is the cool thing about it - it's studio-grade video that compresses small enough to download over broadband. A 6GB movie (a DVD) that compresses to 250MB (half a CD).

This is going to be a great way to encode DVDs or for Apple to make an iTunes video store.

[entrox]

Originally posted by Hozie:
Good point... I was wondering the exact same thing. And, by the way, I believe Pixlet is NOT lossless. Any codec (whether based on wavelet technology or not) is lossy by definition, otherwise it'd just be classified as raw video.

No this is wrong - it is not lossy by definition for being a "codec". Do you think a bzip2 archive is lossy? No, of course not, yet it is still compressed (or encoded) and not qualified as "raw data". Pixlet may be lossy or not - I don't know nor do I care, but I just wanted to clear up your confusion.

[Boondoggle]

I just watched the WWDC qt presentation..

It is definately lossy. But obviously not "very lossy".

[j0nkatz]

Originally posted by wildcard:
Since a lot of heat related issues with 12" Powerbooks are alleviated by deletion or management of the powermanagement.xlm file, does anyone have any ideas if 10.3 may address this issue?

I'd be psyched to see if anyone who owns one and has the developer release of 10.3 noticed any difference in heat or other power-management related issues

(if this ends up as a better fit in the Powerbook forum, please relocate it...)

Yes, Panther is making my 12" PB way too hot! Back to Jag I go!