[Angus_D]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Swaggart didn't threaten to kill gays.

I'm sorry, but that's just a lie.

"If any man so much as looks as me that way, I'll kill him and tell God he died."

I'd say that "If you <do blah>, I'll kill you" is "an expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment", and thus that statement is a threat.

A man that looks at another man with romantic intent would be gay.

It was said by Swaggart.

Swaggart... threaten kill... gay...

Am I missing something here?

[zachs]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I'm sorry, but that's just a lie.

"If any man so much as looks as me that way, I'll kill him and tell God he died."

I'd say that "If you <do blah>, I'll kill you" is "an expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment", and thus that statement is a threat.

A man that looks at another man with romantic intent would be gay.

It was said by Swaggart.

Swaggart... threaten kill... gay...

Am I missing something here?

Yeah. Gays are apparently deceived by evil spirits. So I guess it's justified.

[bamburg dunes]

Originally posted by sambeau:
Time to pluck your "Moral Compass" outa your ass and get with the real world. Homosexuality has been proven to be genetic and common in all higher animals it has been searched for in from birds to apes. This has been the case for a number of years.

Never seen two male dogs at it? In texan sheep it's been found to be rampant. Swans do it, goats do it..

But, that's a lifestyle choice for them. Obviously. Like they read "Gay Times" or something.

Fact or fiction? God did not create the world 4000 years ago in just a few days, Dinosaurs did exist, Jesus was just an Arab with attitude and your lot would probably have him shot as a terrorist he he poked his head out of Palestine today.

Time to grow up and stop blindly beleiving in fairy-tales.

Best post I've read in here for ages.

[sambeau]

This is a good start, read the reviews and the suggested other reading:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...28710?v=glance

Just in case you don't beleive in Google either:-

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993008
http://www.awf.org/wildlives/12672
http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobo-info.html
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/6/1787
http://www.biolreprod.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/1/120
http://www.asas.org/jas/abs/1999/jul1869.htm
http://www.natureaustralia.net/previ...autumn2004.htm
http://www.donshewey.com/1999_zine/b...xuberance.html

Here's some academic citations about homosexuality in Australian animals:

Bagemihl, B., 1999 Biological exuberance: animal homosexuality and natural diversity . Profile Books: London .

Braithwaite L.W., 1981. Ecological studies of the Black Swan. III. Behaviour and social organisation. Aust. Wildl. Res. 8: 135-146.

Coulson, G., 1989. Repertoires of social behaviour in the Macropodoidea. Pp. 457-473 in Kangaroos, wallabies and rat kangaroos, ed. by G. Grigg, P. Jarman and I. Hume. Surrey Beatty & Sons Pty Ltd: Sydney.

Davis , L.S., Hunter, F.M., Harcourt, R.G. & Michelsen Heath, S., 1998. Reciprocal homosexual mounting in Adelie Penguins Pygoscelis adeliae. Emu 98: 136-137.

Ellis, H., 1933. Psychology of sex. Pan Books: London.

Fujioka, M. & Yamagishi, S., 1981. Extramarital and pair copulations in the Cattle Egret. Auk 98: 134-144.

Jamieson, I. & Craig, A.L., 1987. Male-male and female-female courtship and copulation behaviour in a communally breeding bird. Animal Behav. 35: 1251-1252.

Johnson, P.M., 1980. Observations of the behaviour of the Rufous Rat Kangaroo, Aepyprymnus rufescens in captivity. Aust. Wildl. Res. 7: 347-357.

LaFollette, R.M., 1971. Agnostic behaviour and dominance in confined wallabies, Wallabia rufogrisea frutica. Animal Behav. 19: 93-101.

Lill, A., 1979. An assessment of male parental investment and pair bonding in the polygamous Superb Lyrebird. Auk 96: 489-498.

Smith, M., 1980. Behaviour of the Koala, Phascolarctos cinereus in captivity. V. Sexual behaviour. Aust. Wildl. Res. 7: 41-51.

etc etc etc

[itai195]

Uh oh, it's a good thing Zimphire isn't allowed in here or we'd be set up for another 12 page argument over whether homosexuality is 'natural' just because it occurs in nature.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by dcolton:
[B]Swaggart didn't threaten to kill gays as your title suggests. Good try, though.

Originally posted by Xeo:
Don't be attacking other people's titles, there. Someone asked you about one of your titles and you responded "Don't know. Ask the author...it is his title, not mine." So forkies didn't try anything. He strictly posted information.

oh yea...almost passed me by...

FLIP FLOP SMACKDOWN

[sambeau]

Originally posted by itai195:
Uh oh, it's a good thing Zimphire isn't allowed in here or we'd be set up for another 12 page argument over whether homosexuality is 'natural' just because it occurs in nature.

Bring it on

[Logic]

So let me get this straight.

The idiot said:

"If any man so much as looks as me that way, I'll kill him and tell God he died."

1. He'd kill the gay.

2. He'd lie to God.


Uh, this man calls himself a Christian? And people here are really defending the sad excuse for a human being?

:shakes head in disbelief:

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I love it...I disagree with a gay lifestyle and support Christianity...therefore I am stupid! I don't accept junk science that presents theories as truth, so I am stupid.

I will tell you what is stupid. Risking one's health by having high risk sex with another man. Not to mention the heightened chance to catch a STD, but the other health issues of inserting something that is supposed to be exit only. Stupid is introducing our children to the aforementioned stupidity. Stupid is trying to manipulate the public into believing such acts are natural and accepted by the majority of the world. Stupid is continually posting pro-gay threads, knowing someone is going to disagree, then getting mad when someone does...

Who, I ask is stupid?

Time to go to school and learn how to read.

[dcolton]

So this is what I have learned. Gays are comparable to a horny dog, because it has been proven in nature that it is genetic for a dog to want to score anything to satisfy his urges...be it a chair, a couch, a human leg or a couch. Hell, I have even seen dogs hit human women...so I guess a dog would be one up on gays...huh.

Sambeau, you win...you win!

But, I must add...how disguisting. My thoughts of the 'gay' lifestyle has changed dramatically. I have never really though a gay man to be like a dog humping a duck to get his jollies off. But, Sambeau, you have proven to me that a gay man is nothing more than a sex starved animal looking to get his rocks off. No wonder aids is rampant in the gay community. No wonder the life expectancy of a gay may is significantly lower than that of a good and common human being who isn't gentically disposed to screw anything like a dog.

I was going to edit this out and clean it up a bit...but I figured I should keep with my theory that the more one side personally attacks...the harsher my stance becomes...especially if it is some 'holier than thou' gay faction trying to manipulate children and society into believeing their lifestyle is wholesome

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
So let me get this straight.

The idiot said:

"If any man so much as looks as me that way, I'll kill him and tell God he died."

1. He'd kill the gay.

2. He'd lie to God.


Uh, this man calls himself a Christian? And people here are really defending the sad excuse for a human being?

:shakes head in disbelief:

pot.kettle.black = Logic

[dcolton]

Originally posted by sambeau:
This is a good start, read the reviews and the suggested other reading:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...28710?v=glance

Just in case you don't beleive in Google either:-

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993008
http://www.awf.org/wildlives/12672
http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobo-info.html
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/6/1787
http://www.biolreprod.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/1/120
http://www.asas.org/jas/abs/1999/jul1869.htm
http://www.natureaustralia.net/previ...autumn2004.htm
http://www.donshewey.com/1999_zine/b...xuberance.html

Here's some academic citations about homosexuality in Australian animals:

Bagemihl, B., 1999 Biological exuberance: animal homosexuality and natural diversity . Profile Books: London .

Braithwaite L.W., 1981. Ecological studies of the Black Swan. III. Behaviour and social organisation. Aust. Wildl. Res. 8: 135-146.

Coulson, G., 1989. Repertoires of social behaviour in the Macropodoidea. Pp. 457-473 in Kangaroos, wallabies and rat kangaroos, ed. by G. Grigg, P. Jarman and I. Hume. Surrey Beatty & Sons Pty Ltd: Sydney.

Davis , L.S., Hunter, F.M., Harcourt, R.G. & Michelsen Heath, S., 1998. Reciprocal homosexual mounting in Adelie Penguins Pygoscelis adeliae. Emu 98: 136-137.

Ellis, H., 1933. Psychology of sex. Pan Books: London.

Fujioka, M. & Yamagishi, S., 1981. Extramarital and pair copulations in the Cattle Egret. Auk 98: 134-144.

Jamieson, I. & Craig, A.L., 1987. Male-male and female-female courtship and copulation behaviour in a communally breeding bird. Animal Behav. 35: 1251-1252.

Johnson, P.M., 1980. Observations of the behaviour of the Rufous Rat Kangaroo, Aepyprymnus rufescens in captivity. Aust. Wildl. Res. 7: 347-357.

LaFollette, R.M., 1971. Agnostic behaviour and dominance in confined wallabies, Wallabia rufogrisea frutica. Animal Behav. 19: 93-101.

Lill, A., 1979. An assessment of male parental investment and pair bonding in the polygamous Superb Lyrebird. Auk 96: 489-498.

Smith, M., 1980. Behaviour of the Koala, Phascolarctos cinereus in captivity. V. Sexual behaviour. Aust. Wildl. Res. 7: 41-51.

etc etc etc

JUNK SCIENCE. JUNK SCIENCE. one more time JUNK SCIENCE. These more than likely gay scientists have a theory. But not any facts. It is JUNK SCIENCE.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Fair enough, and I shouldn't have put you in the same category of some other members on this forum. You deserve better than that.

I appreciate it.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Do you have friends that do drugs that you don't approve of? How do you follow through on that? First and foremost, you are always there for support. You are there to prevent them from making mistakes and you attempt to let the person know of your dissapproval. Is there much more you can do? Maybe take them to church. Maybe introduce them to reformed drug addicts. In short, you treat them like a person. Is that wrong

Well the first thing to realize is unsolicited advice falls on deaf ears.

That said, make no effort to hide your contempt or disapproval of whatever it is that bothers you. But don't let that get in the way of everyday life with them. The best thing a friend can do is to wait until he is needed. And as long as your friend sees nothing wrong, he will not need you.

Also, trying to help is not wrong, However if they turn your help down a few times you do them a disservice by continuing to badger them, and eventually this may lead to the dissolution of friendship. Sometimes we must accept a persons flaws as immutable, or that our own perspective may be missing something vital.

Fortunately for myself, the worst I have to worry about in my circle of friends is waiting for some of them to finish a crummy cigarette before they get in my car or come inside my house. Of course, back in college, I was seen as the 'weird artist'-type.

Originally posted by dcolton:
It is definately entertainment.

Less so when you realize some people seriously advocate some of their ideas.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Good for you (thinking for yourself, that is).

I do my best.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Rapists, murderers and terrorists aspire for acceptance too...it's a normal human thing.

No, that's justification. They will try and show you how their crime HAD to be done, how it was the exception to the rule, but they won't tell you its 'normal.'

Originally posted by dcolton:
I did answer, look closely at my response and quotes

I don't have the time to double-check that right now...

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:

I don't have the time to double-check that right now...

That;s the problem, no one pays attention then wants to hurl insults. Notice how civil this thread was until a few of the haters stepped in?

Anyway, check the typeface.

Also, A friend is a friend, and if you truly love that person...you will try to make him/ her a better person. Ignoring the issue is not the solution...but patience, understanding, and tact is the solution

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
destroying the institution of marriage, forcing the gay lifestyle on mainstream society, telling children experimenting is okay, gay tv, the list goes on and on

One day I'm going to get enough people together to oppose the all too long-standing Christian agenda. You know, defining marriage as a bond marked by a "blessing" for something that doesn't even exist, forcing their beliefs on the whole country and, ever increasingly, on our system of government, and teaching children not to think for themselves, but to give them a fictional book and an of a cartoonish character and tell the "just because." At least comic books have illustrations.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Also, A friend is a friend, and if you truly love that person...you will try to make him/ her a better person. Ignoring the issue is not the solution...but patience, understanding, and tact is the solution

You shouldn't make anyone do anything, just because you don't agree with it. Tact is understanding that part of individuality, personal responsibility and free will.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
One day I'm going to get enough people together to oppose the all too long-standing Christian agenda. You know, defining marriage as a bond marked by a "blessing" for something that doesn't even exist, forcing their beliefs on the whole country and, ever increasingly, on our system of government, and teaching children not to think for themselves, but to give them a fictional book and an of a cartoonish character and tell the "just because." At least comic books have illustrations.

Really?

Lets look at our visions.

I see a world of morality and peace...where children can walk down the street, watch tv, well...be children.

Your dream is to take away that morality. Allowing gays to molest and sodomize our children mentally as well as physically. You want a world of sex starved animals (as it has been proven by Sambeau)screwing whatever feels good. You want STD's to be commonplace among all Americans and you want our life expectancies to drop considerably. You want our public parks to be orgy centers for horny men who want to live like an animal for a day.

I don't want you America. Sounds pretty sick to me.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
You shouldn't make anyone do anything, just because you don't agree with it. Tact is understanding that part of individuality, personal responsibility and free will.

Even if that personal responsibility and free will is damaging your friend? (remember, we are talking about any issue...not necessarily sodomy and sexual immorality). I say, that if you love someone, you do what you can do to help a friend in need.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Really?

Lets look at our visions.

I see a world of morality and peace...where children can walk down the street, watch tv, well...be children.

Your dream is to take away that morality. Allowing gays to molest and sodomize our children mentally as well as physically. You want a world of sex starved animals (as it has been proven by Sambeau)screwing whatever feels good. You want STD's to be commonplace among all Americans and you want our life expectancies to drop considerably. You want our public parks to be orgy centers for horny men who want to live like an animal for a day.

I don't want you America. Sounds pretty sick to me.

What's pretty sick to me is the average Christian's hypocrisy and self-righteousness. You all act like you're so above everyone else, when the truth is, somewhere in the deep, dark recesses of your God-fearing, moral compass driven ego, you've got a dark secret you're hiding, something that makes you "even worse" than the non-believers. What's yours? So full of ****.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
What's pretty sick to me is the average Christian's hypocrisy and self-righteousness. You all act like you're so above everyone else, when the truth is, somewhere in the deep, dark recesses of your God-fearing, moral compass driven ego, you've got a dark secret you're hiding, something that makes you "even worse" than the non-believers. What's yours? So full of ****.

Doesn't everyone have a dark secret? Christianity isn't about being 'perfect' or even professing perfection. It is about becoming a better person, realizing mistakes will be made. It is about understanding the will of God and walking with God, not against him. We all make mistakes, it is how we become better people. And when we point out the mistakes of others, we are trying to make them a better person.

Are Christians not allowed to have a vision of the community in which they live and are they not allowed to try to make a difference? Or is it only okay if their effort for improvement only jives with your perception or need for an amoral society?

[Logic]

I just think it is very important to remember that Christianity and American "Christianity" aren't the same.

So don't put down all the Christians in this world just because of what some American "Christian" said.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Doesn't everyone have a dark secret? Christianity isn't about being 'perfect' or even professing perfection. It is about becoming a better person, realizing mistakes will be made. It is about understanding the will of God and walking with God, not against him. We all make mistakes, it is how we become better people. And when we point out the mistakes of others, we are trying to make them a better person.

Are Christians not allowed to have a vision of the community in which they live and are they not allowed to try to make a difference? Or is it only okay if their effort for improvement only jives with your perception or need for an amoral society?

What's not okay is for your previous post to suggest that Christianity is the only thing reigning in gays from committing molestation and other such illegal activities. Pretty self-important for someone who would no doubt accuse an atheist such as myself of self-importance simply because I don't believe in your fictional, fantasy crutch.

Here's a deal, you show me someone who has made real "improvement" because of Christian influence, and I might even start paying dues myself. How much is it nowadays?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Even if that personal responsibility and free will is damaging your friend? (remember, we are talking about any issue...not necessarily sodomy and sexual immorality). I say, that if you love someone, you do what you can do to help a friend in need.

They are still their own person. If they choose not to take your advice after a few times, you should respect that decision. Yes, this applies outside sexual morality.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
What's not okay is for your previous post to suggest that Christianity is the only thing reigning in gays from committing molestation and other such illegal activities. Pretty self-important for someone who would no doubt accuse an atheist such as myself of self-importance simply because I don't believe in your fictional, fantasy crutch.

Here's a deal, you show me someone who has made real "improvement" because of Christian influence, and I might even start paying dues myself. How much is it nowadays?

Where do I start?

How about our founding fathers? How about Mother Theresa? How about Martin Luther King, Jr.? Do you really need more, or should I continue.

Please, pay your tithes to Focus on the Family. www.family.org Or, to their children's program, Adventures in Odyssey, which can be found here: http://www.whitsend.org/

Your donations would be appreciated.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
They are still their own person. If they choose not to take your advice after a few times, you should respect that decision. Yes, this applies outside sexual morality.

Didn't I mention PATIENCE as well?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Didn't I mention PATIENCE as well?

I believe I mentioned that before.

So long as its patience and not determination. It's one thing to wait for them to come to you, and quite another to badger them incessantly.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
I believe I mentioned that before.

So long as its patience and not determination. It's one thing to wait for them to come to you, and quite another to badger them incessantly.

Agreed. You shouldn't have drug addict friends anyway!

Hey, what happened to constrictor. I love it when silence falls...

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Logic:
I just think it is very important to remember that Christianity and American "Christianity" aren't the same.

So don't put down all the Christians in this world just because of what some American "Christian" said.

there are quite a few orthodox Christians here in the US that practice their beliefs in the same way they're practiced in their homelands. Millions of them.

[sambeau]

Here's a good one

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0613075252.htm

"In contrast to men, both heterosexual and lesbian women tend to become sexually aroused by both male and female erotica, and, thus, have a bisexual arousal pattern."

Is that the kind of America you want to live in?

:arf:

[dcolton]

Originally posted by sambeau:
Here's a good one

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0613075252.htm

"In contrast to men, both heterosexual and lesbian women tend to become sexually aroused by both male and female erotica, and, thus, have a bisexual arousal pattern."

Is that the kind of America you want to live in?

:arf:

Simply put, no.

Liked your website though. Not necesarily for the content, but I liked it. Gonna to listen to some of the tunes in a moment.

[Logic]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
there are quite a few orthodox Christians here in the US that practice their beliefs in the same way they're practiced in their homelands. Millions of them.

Of course. I didn't say that there weren't any Christians in the US. All I said was that there is a difference between American "Christianity" and Christianity.

Compare Swaggart to Desmond Tutu. Two very different religions the two teach and follow. What's the biggest difference IMO? The constant focus on the OT in the American "Christianity" while Christians focus more on the NT.

Have we found something regarding religion that we disagree on?

[demograph68]

Uh oh guys... I'm bisexual. It's back in the closest for me then, right?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by demograph68:
Uh oh guys... I'm bisexual. It's back in the closest for me then, right?

Bisexual? Is there a gene for that too?

[demograph68]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Bisexual? Is there a gene for that too?

Maybe. Why?

Come to think of it, maybe you're arguing this for the wrong reasons. You say it's unnatural, that is debatable. But what if I love a man like you love a woman? (Love in the emotional sense, not the physical) How is that wrong? Do you imply that this is a "choice" I made? As if I crawled out of bed and said to myself one day,"I'm bored, I think I'll start dating guys."

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Logic:
Have we found something regarding religion that we disagree on?

No... stilll haven't... dammit.

Most protestants focus WAAAY too much attention on the OT, to their own detriment. What's worse is, they don't know how to even read it.

A couple years ago I bought Rabbi Kaplan's (abridged) commentary on the Tanakh for my dad for Christmas, and told him to compare that to his Calvin and Matthew Henry commentaries. After some comparisons, he was stunned (to put it lightly). I simply asked him, "it's their book (the Tanakh), don't you think they'd know it best?" He's been getting much better since, and his understanding has increased 10 fold... also it's made him focus more on the NT and the writings of the early church fathers (since he now realizes that those are the true roots of the Christian faith).

[Logic]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
No... stilll haven't... dammit.

Most protestants focus WAAAY too much attention on the OT, to their own detriment. What's worse is, they don't know how to even read it.

A couple years ago I bought Rabbi Kaplan's (abridged) commentary on the Tanakh for my dad for Christmas, and told him to compare that to his Calvin and Matthew Henry commentaries. After some comparisons, he was stunned (to put it lightly). I simply asked him, "it's their book (the Tanakh), don't you think they'd know it best?" He's been getting much better since, and his understanding has increased 10 fold... also it's made him focus more on the NT and the writings of the early church fathers (since he now realizes that those are the true roots of the Christian faith).

DAMN!

We continue to agree. I haven't really had time to read much of the literature "around" the Bible and Quran since I'm still too busy reading books for school and the Bible and Quran themselves.

But I have to say that this focus on the OT seems to be primarily an American phenomenon(though not exclusively) since I've very seldom seen any of it here in northern Europe. Yes, we have our nutcases like every other country does but they aren't as powerful and noisy as they seem to be in the US.

Heck, we here on Iceland haven't yet separated Church and State and it hasn't caused any problems so far. That just shows that our Church is in some way very different from the US one.

What caused this I have no idea though.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by demograph68:
Maybe. Why?

Come to think of it, maybe you're arguing this for the wrong reasons. You say it's unnatural, that is debatable. But what if I love a man like you love a woman? (Love in the emotional sense, not the physical) How is that wrong? Do you imply that this is a "choice" I made? As if I crawled out of bed and said to myself one day,"I'm bored, I think I'll start dating guys."

Honestly, I can't understand how if there is a 'gay' gene, how people can be bisexual. It sort of kills that theory, don't you think.

As for your questions, I think that emotions are strong in humans, and certain people let those emotions get the best of them. The same with urges.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
Heck, we here on Iceland haven't yet separated Church and State and it hasn't caused any problems so far. That just shows that our Church is in some way very different from the US one.

The main reason they were separated at the federal level is due to the legacy of persecution in England. While we probably agree that there is some level of religious intolerance amongst portions of the US population, I don't think the ideas of separation or religious freedom originated as a reaction to the environment within colonial America. In other words, there was some intolerance within certain groups back then and I think we see the legacy of that today, but I don't think separation of church and state was a reaction to THOSE groups.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Honestly, I can't understand how if there is a 'gay' gene, how people can be bisexual. It sort of kills that theory, don't you think.

Right handed people, left handed people, ambidextrous...

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Right handed people, left handed people, ambidextrous...

What the hell does that have to do with sexual preference?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
What the hell does that have to do with sexual preference?

People don't choose which hand they prefer.

[itai195]

dcolton -- I don't think there is a single 'gay gene,' but instead a group of genes that each have some effect on determining sexual orientation. Labelling this concept the 'gay gene' is just a way of making it more digestable for people who don't bother to understand nuanced theories. It does have the downside of leading some people to think that genetics only manifest in discrete 'on/off' characteristics. Caveat: I know a thing or two about genetics so I can make an educated guess, but I don't much about current research into 'gay genes.' Of course, I do think that environment and socialization have an impact on orientation too, but taken together it adds up to a situation where orientation isn't a choice.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Honestly, I can't understand how if there is a 'gay' gene, how people can be bisexual. It sort of kills that theory, don't you think.

As for your questions, I think that emotions are strong in humans, and certain people let those emotions get the best of them. The same with urges.

I knew you'd say you didn't love your wife soon enough. Damn urges got the best of you, huh? Maybe your emotions are "special," though, right?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
I knew you'd say you didn't love your wife soon enough. Damn urges got the best of you, huh? Maybe your emotions are "special," though, right?

Huh?

BTW, did you need some more examples of Christians that made a difference in the world? Are you going to tithe like you said? Just curious, I always wondered if immorality ported over to a lack of ethics and integrity.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
People don't choose which hand they prefer.

Actually, that's not entirely correct. I was left handed pre-elemetary school. But, was forced into being Rt handed by my teachers. It didn't take long and I was entirely Rt handed.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Logic:
I just think it is very important to remember that Christianity and American "Christianity" aren't the same.

So don't put down all the Christians in this world just because of what some American "Christian" said.

And there is obviously diversity in American Christianity. I go to a mainline protestant church in a very conservative state, and yet the pastor performs gay commitment ceremonies, openly derides creationism, protested the Iraq war, and is some kind of fellow of the Jesus seminar (historical rather than literalist approach to the Bible). And there are a lot more like him. In every large community in the US there are liberal, non-fundamentalist (actually, IMO, truly fundamentalist) Christian churches.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Huh?

BTW, did you need some more examples of Christians that made a difference in the world? Are you going to tithe like you said? Just curious, I always wondered if immorality ported over to a lack of ethics and integrity.

I can't say. In turn, I always wondered if closeted racism, homophobia, and hate for "other" ported over to a lack of connection to one's peers, or of respect in one's community? Care to help me out?

[Logic]

Perhaps the anti-gay crowd could answer this.

Did you make a conscious choice of falling in love with women? Did you make a conscious choice to have sex with women? Could you if you decided have sex with someone of the same sex? Is it just your "morals" and "ethics" that stop you from having sex with people of the same sex?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Actually, that's not entirely correct. I was left handed pre-elemetary school. But, was forced into being Rt handed by my teachers. It didn't take long and I was entirely Rt handed.

Key word is prefer. You can force people to do a lot of things, but all that results in is usually a bigger learning curve, decreased skill, etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised if that inclination is still there.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
I can't say. In turn, I always wondered if closeted racism, homophobia, and hate for "other" ported over to a lack of connection to one's peers, or of respect in one's community? Care to help me out?

Good answer. I am impressed.

But, um...will you be making those donations?