[Macintosh]

The computer market is a series of niches and as Apple expands they can start to identify and meet the needs of those niches. But first they have to have a good bit of market share to go out and expand or otherwise face over extending themselves. I think the e in eMac stands for ego rather than education. The exec staff at Apple is too egotistical to even see the blatent fact that the entire company only comprises a sliver of the whole market. "Well, we lead in everything so lets just keep going" attitude is a bad and scary one that I hope Apple doesnt have. Thats the attitude Steve had back in the early 80's, a blind ignorance to obvious facts.

Idont think that if the eMac fails Apple will too. Not at all. I think that the eMac will fail though. I hope Apple learns from this gamble whether it be a success or not. What does worry me, however, is the seemingly unending string of LEARNING Apple has done. They didnt learn from the Cube, I think Apple needs to go back to school.

I seriously hope I am the one who is completely and utterly wrong on all accounts. I know Apple needs an education machine of some kind but I think the eMac isnt the one. It shouldnt be exclusively an education machine. One more thing, why do a lot of people claim they want one of these eMac's? Becuase they could buy one and Apple wont let them. APPLE WONT LET SOME PEOPLE BUY ONE OF THEIR COMPUTERS??????!!!!!!! MARKETSHARE????

eMac: The first computer designed to be a Nich within a Nich.

I am done.



[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]

[murbot]

What the **** is a nich?

I am done.

If only we could be so lucky...

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>

Apple has not been able to follow up on the original iMac with one that is just as appealing..."

The eMac is doomed, not because its a bad product (I wouldnt mind having one) but because there isnt a big enough market for it.

Time will tell, it always does.

</STRONG>

By most accounts, the new flat panel G4 iMac is selling just as well as the original iMac did. Do you not consider it a new product that is just as appealing? The eMac is a similarly configured computer; probably more durable; aimed at education. Yes, time will tell. I believe schools and students will buy lots of them. And then, perhaps Apple will offer the eMac to the general public...but won't they have to change the name? Until then, eMac is an excellent name.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>The computer market is a series of niches and as Apple expands they can start to identify and meet the needs of those niches. But first they have to have a good bit of market share to go out and expand or otherwise face over extending themselves. I think the e in eMac stands for ego rather than education. The exec staff at Apple is too egotistical to even see the blatent fact that the entire company only comprises a sliver of the whole market. "Well, we lead in everything so lets just keep going" attitude is a bad and scary one that I hope Apple doesnt have. Thats the attitude Steve had back in the early 80's, a blind ignorance to obvious facts.

Idont think that if the eMac fails Apple will too. Not at all. I think that the eMac will fail though. I hope Apple learns from this gamble whether it be a success or not. What does worry me, however, is the seemingly unending string of LEARNING Apple has done. They didnt learn from the Cube, I think Apple needs to go back to school.

I seriously hope I am the one who is completely and utterly wrong on all accounts. I know Apple needs an education machine of some kind but I think the eMac isnt the one. It shouldnt be exclusively an education machine. One more thing, why do a lot of people claim they want one of these eMac's? Becuase they could buy one and Apple wont let them. APPLE WONT LET SOME PEOPLE BUY ONE OF THEIR COMPUTERS??????!!!!!!! MARKETSHARE????

eMac: The first computer designed to be a Nich within a Nich.

I am done.



[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]</STRONG>

Dude, just let it go.

[applenut1]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>Ok, I have been thinking about this for a day now and I have come to a conclusion.

The eMac will flop and die because it is a confusing mess in Apple's product line. The specs and price interfere to much with the iMac and it is overpriced for an "education" machine. You could get a Dell education machine without monitr for 500 bucks and add a 15 inch flat CRT for 150 bucks and come in under 1k.

I dont know why Apple had to expend resources to make this piEce of crap they call an eMac. Why couldnt they have used the same old iMac case and put a G4 in it? Why did they have to make an eMac in the first place, wouldnt the cost of doing so justify lowering the price of the iMac line by $150 each instead of add a whole new computer? Why do you think Apple raised the price of the new iMac, it was because the eMac was coming and it needed room to breath from the new iMac.

Why can't the eMac be sold to everyone for one price of $900. Just think how difficult it would be if you were an Apple salesperson talking to a customer who was a college student that had around $1,350 to spend on a computer. What would you suggest? An eMac or an iMac? Thats a no brainer: iMac.

The eMac will fail not because it is a bad machine but because it is not part of the iMac family. IT SHOULD BE CALLED THE iMAC EDUCATION EDITION. Instead of this it has its very own category which confuses the hell out of me, just think of normal people! It should just be the low end iMac called and iMac but be an education edition iMac. It makes sense.

Apple, I normally defend you and apologize for your mistakes but this one is just glarring. The eMac is alive today but it will surely be dead in a year. UNLESS APPLE CHANGES IT TO AN iMAC.

eMac....stupid. iMac already has a name for itself...wtf...I cant believe how dumb marketing can be sometimes...management...SIGH. :o

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]</STRONG>

*******. shut up.

the eMac is the perfect education desktop that Apple needed. it measn education's needs perfectly.

My mother is an administrator of a school in the NYC BOE. As of a few weeks ago there were rumors that the whole system was going to switch to Dell. Her district is 100% mac currently.

The announcement yesterday of the eMac could very well reverse the potential Dell decision and my mother is already planning to order a few dozen of the machines for the next school year.

Don't speak about something which you know nothing about

[applenut1]

Originally posted by turboSPE:
<STRONG>

I'm in college and I'd rather save my money a little while longer and get a Quicksilver. Besides, they marketed the G3 AIO to the education market only and it didn't even last a year. I like the eMac, but I think it will end up being another AIO

turboSPE</STRONG>

uh.. District 8 in the Bronx bought a few hundred G3 AIO upon release. Possibly over a thousand. and continued to do so throughout the year replacing aging LCIIs and Performas. They were highly successful in the education market and had high sales numbers. You will see one in the majority of apple using public schools. they were only killed because the imac was released and Apple THOUGHT it made a better education machine. they were wrong. the G3 AIO had many advantage. the new eMac combines the best of both and is going to be a runaway success with the iBook (possible eBook?) in education

[Nicko]

The university i go to is really pro mac.... they still have a lab with about 20 G3 AIO ---WORKING! they also have dozens of various versions of imacs and G4s.

Any day a new mac is released is a good day - all who disagree are idiots

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by flatcatch:
<STRONG>

Holy crap are YOU KIDDING? The eMac supports 640x480 up to 1280 by 960... if you can't see at 1152 x 864 change the freakin' resolution. I fail the see why the eMac screen with greater viewing angle and 5 resolution options is entirely worthless in a school/lab setting when positioned against the 15" static native resolution of the LCD. Besides, students cannot purchase the $999 version, only schools can - so as a student the minimal price difference comes down to personal preference.</STRONG>

Did I say it was worthless? If I did, I didn't mean it. The eMac is a very logical solution for schools, who want something that's cheap, so they can buy a whole lot of them, not really caring about the luxurious features in the iMac, because hey, they're not using them as their own personal machine. They just want something cheap, and the eMac makes perfect sense for them.

For individuals, it's ridiculous to buy an eMac when the iMac is as much better of a machine as it is. And Apple knows this - that's why they're only selling the eMac to schools. They know what they're doing...

BTW if you didn't get the resolution comment - it was a response to the only supposed advantage the eMac has over the iMac, the ability to run at a higher resolution. Trouble is, that will make text small and difficult to read. Yes, of course you can turn the resolution down, but then it's not so much of an advantage anymore, is it?

[WinnerMac]

Emac is a small step in the right direction in term of Apple trying to increase its share of the market...but long term wise, Apple've got to do much more better!

Apple've got to LOWER its prices on all of its line of computers. Apple has been consistently has the highest profit margins of all the computer companies. Now in the time to lowering its profit margin to gain market share. Apple will come out far more profitable than being damn greedy now by milking maximum profits out of its customers on every sale.

So Steve Jobs---I challange u to think different--by LOWERING PRICES ON ALL APPLE COMPUTERS!

[Dan Szwarc]

What proof do you have that the G3 AIO failed? The fact that they don't make it anymore? Hello!?!?! McFly! They don't make a LOT of macs anymore. Besides, the G3 AIO was nothing more than a Beige G3 in an AIO case. Hardly expensive to produce.

I find it funny that Apple says that it designed the eMac around what it was told the education market wanted and yet so many people say it will fail.

The fact is, YOU can't buy one, you WOULDN'T buy one ANYWAY, and only schools and those related to them can!

The eMac is going to be more durable than the iMac II ever could be in a teaching environment. No LCD would survive one year.

Will schools buy the eMac? They will if they asked Apple to design it. Apple doesn't put out a new model to a limited market without THINKING.

Watch how much eMacs start selling for on eBay. Collector's item? Maybe... Ever try to buy a G3 AIO on eBay? Expensive for a G3...

--------
We now return you to your regular Mac User b*tching session....

[GlobalNomad]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
<STRONG>power mac g4 dp1ghz, 23inch cinema display on order, 22 inch lacie right now. Powermac g4 dual 800, 22 inch cinema display. powerbook g4 800mhz, powerbook g4 667mhz, powerbook g4 500mhz, 10GB ipod </STRONG>

Oh I dislike you

[innerlimit]

Ok�, I registered just so I could say this to you guys.

I'm in my second year of Applied Information Technology... Apple is a non-subject here, nobody knows it or they don't want to know it...

But there's always the odd couple of teacher/student who DO like Apple.. and think that the eMac is just the thing to have in a class environment!

I just logged on to my local Apple Store (Belgium) and I had to give up my school's name and phone number, i guess they can easily check wether i'm enrolled or not... BUT .. when i got to the eMac i noticed a small price difference.... it's €1.766 (tax incl.) €1 = $1.1101 so it would amount to $1960,44
(what's is wrong with this picture?--in the states it would cost me $999 )

grEEtz from Antwerp

[Chimpmaster]

I reckon the emac rocks. As a uni student i am still entitled to get one thankfully!

I mean, aesthetics aside, the combo imac and emac are exactly the same specs! And $800 Aus difference ($500 odd US) - thats awesome.

Actually there is 128mb in the emac and 256mb in the combo imac from memory. Big deal - 3rd party ram is so cheap now. You can buy a 512mb DIMM for $300 AUS.

[Simon]

Originally posted by innerlimit:
<STRONG>
I just logged on to my local Apple Store (Belgium) and I had to give up my school's name and phone number, i guess they can easily check wether i'm enrolled or not... BUT .. when i got to the eMac i noticed a small price difference.... it's �1.766 (tax incl.) �1 = $1.1101 so it would amount to $1960,44
(what's is wrong with this picture?--in the states it would cost me $999 )
</STRONG>

Did that machine have a combo drive? You probably got an offer for that machine since you are buying a machine for your private use (as a student or teacher). Only schools and universities can have the $999 eMac which only has a CD-ROM.

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>The computer market is a series of niches and as Apple expands they can start to identify and meet the needs of those niches. But first they have to have a good bit of market share to go out and expand or otherwise face over extending themselves. I think the e in eMac stands for ego rather than education. The exec staff at Apple is too egotistical to even see the blatent fact that the entire company only comprises a sliver of the whole market. "Well, we lead in everything so lets just keep going" attitude is a bad and scary one that I hope Apple doesnt have. Thats the attitude Steve had back in the early 80's, a blind ignorance to obvious facts.

Idont think that if the eMac fails Apple will too. Not at all. I think that the eMac will fail though. I hope Apple learns from this gamble whether it be a success or not. What does worry me, however, is the seemingly unending string of LEARNING Apple has done. They didnt learn from the Cube, I think Apple needs to go back to school.

I seriously hope I am the one who is completely and utterly wrong on all accounts. I know Apple needs an education machine of some kind but I think the eMac isnt the one. It shouldnt be exclusively an education machine. One more thing, why do a lot of people claim they want one of these eMac's? Becuase they could buy one and Apple wont let them. APPLE WONT LET SOME PEOPLE BUY ONE OF THEIR COMPUTERS??????!!!!!!! MARKETSHARE????

eMac: The first computer designed to be a Nich within a Nich.

I am done.



[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]</STRONG>

Aren't you just one of the most annoying little creatures on the world. You make a topic asking for valid arguements, only to what? Tell the other people they're wrong? If you make a topic with no intention on changing your point of view then at least call it "The eMac will flop" then at least you can defend yourself constantly, but when you ask for valid reasons it won't flop, then just complain that those people are wrong, you sound pretty stupid.

I think you're just mad because you're one of the 3 or 4 people out of your entire post that thinks that the eMac will flop.

and I think iMacs are trash so i hope you're happy with yours.

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Hi I'm Ben ]

[BrunoBruin]

Apple doesn't put out a new model to a limited market without THINKING.

Well, there was that whole Cube thing... (said the Cube owner).

I'm not a big fan of the looks of the eMac but I have to think it will do pretty well. Not HERE, of course -- our IT department has a thing about AIOs and won't support them. Our computer store wouldn't even sell the old iMac. But all the people on these fora who screamed that the new iMac was a disaster for schools because it was overpriced and had a fragile LCD... well, here you go. Just what you asked for, a 17-inch G4 CRT iMac.

And come on, how much capital can Apple have invested in engineering this thing? I'm sure they'll make a nice profit from it.

[KidRed]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>lol, the eMac will fail. Do you want to mark this down as my official bet and future claim to fame? The eMac should never have been developed in the first place. Dont you understand? The cost of making this computer could have been saved and the new iMac's price could have been droped.

At the very least the "eMac" should just be an education edition iMac. Maybe even the old iMac shell with a G4. Why not? The eMac just seems so out of place.

If nobody was expecting it, was it important?

[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]</STRONG>

mm, in case you haven't read anything, the 'e' in eMac stands for education. Only students and educators can purchase this machine, it's not for just anyone. It's not in the Apple Store. There is no confusion except for idiots.

[Superchicken]

heh

the e is for education
the i is for idiot who doesn't realize that the education mac isn't for them!
hehehe

Have you guys visited a high school lab?

We have morons yanking mouse cords, spinning the computers around, hitting them.
And this is the grade 12 class by the way.
an iMac would NEVER survive in our class. The speakers would get stolen.
The LCD would get broken some how, they'd find a way.
the eMac is a great alternative.
My teacher hasn't looked at one yet... STILL
But once he does he's gona flip and try to get in as many as he can for next year.

I don't think people have realized that yes education is a nich... but so are mac users.

And the fact is, that apple dosn't have to make five billion of thse things!
They can just make enough to fill the orders!
They're not making special components for the most part, and well saying that this can not work, is like saying that selling an iMac with more than one RAM chip can't work. Cause after all there are only so many people who are going to want more than one RAM chip correct?
Building an eMac probably isn't to difficult.

And the cube wasn't for education. Educators you can ask them exactly what they want, and they ahve a yearly budget, the cube was prosumer. How many of us do you think can afford 5 new computers at least a year?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?
Not that many. School labs can afford lots per year. And schools that want to upgrade can spend a huge ammount!

And the best part is, the eMac isn't going to get as dated as the PC labs our school has. we're still using Rev D iMacs in our graphics lab as GOOD COMPUTERS, we're got 3 Rev Ds, 2 400Mhz graphites, and 2 500Mhz indigos.
And a fair bit of 7200s and proformas.

Apple can make this gamble, cause it's not that big of a gamble. Give schools a good computer, for less, and give em something that will LAST. and that's what educators care about!

Educators otherwise are looking at PCs, so calling the eMac in comparison to those ugly, is like calling the non beautiful neighbor, ugly compared to your lawn nomb.

The eMac isn't an iMac.
It's an eMac.

The iPod isn't a portable iMac it's an iPod, neither is the iBook.
Don't call the iBook, iMac Portable Putter.
call it the iBook. It's got it's own family. And the eMac will have it's own family.

And would they need to change the name for a consumer market?
e=education
e=ECONOMY!

I esttimate november, apple's gona release the eMac to the public.

And by the way, if I could choose between an eMac and an iMac as I'm going into college, Id' prolly choose the eMac simply cause I"M THAT CHEAP!

Not to mention I like higher resoultions and such...

Macintosh, please PLEASE realize that other people do have differnt opinions than you, and that just because their differnt dosn't mean that your's are less valid. But the fact is that there are people here who from the looks of it have more of an idea of the market apple's looking at than you do.
And you don't need to tell everyone who dosn't agree with you to screw off, and use more swears and such, cause honestly you sound like a PC user.
I mean most of us Mac users are far to smart to have to rely on words of such broad meaning, we're all so much more articulate than that right???
:-D

[Macintosh]

When did I ever say I couldnt buy one? I could have one ordered right now if I wanted to. I would never order it though because I have a Superdrive iMac. My dad is a university lobbyist so he could purchase an eMac with my money. I dont understand Apple's "education only" policy ont the eMac because anybody that really wants one could get one. I could just ask a friend or my brother in college to buy one for me with my money but under his name.

The eMac will fail, it is a niche inside of a niche company.

Nobody is willing to debate this with me. All you keep repeating is how much schools will love this thing and how the entire world uses macs. Get real and think about what the eMac is. It is not going to be profitable for Apple because if only education institutions and students can buy these then it already has a limited market. Why not sell it to everybody if you are going to sell it at all? People keep saying that it is a great new machine for the low end. No its not because it isnt offered to everybody who wants a low priced G4 machine.

I think Apple did this too soon. They need to increase market share with other products before they release a product that can only be aquired be a minority.

[nana2]

Originally posted by innerlimit:
<STRONG>I just logged on to my local Apple Store (Belgium) and I had to give up my school's name and phone number, i guess they can easily check wether i'm enrolled or not... BUT .. when i got to the eMac i noticed a small price difference.... it's �1.766 (tax incl.) �1 = $1.1101 so it would amount to $1960,44
(what's is wrong with this picture?--in the states it would cost me $999 )
</STRONG>

The bit that's wrong is that the US dollar is worth more than the Euro. So Euro 1,766 is about US$1,600. Then you have to take into account whatever insane tax rate Belgium has

[JC Denton]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>The eMac will fail, it is a niche inside of a niche company.

Nobody is willing to debate this with me. All you keep repeating is how much schools will love this thing and how the entire world uses macs. Get real and think about what the eMac is. It is not going to be profitable for Apple because if only education institutions and students can buy these then it already has a limited market. Why not sell it to everybody if you are going to sell it at all? People keep saying that it is a great new machine for the low end. No its not because it isnt offered to everybody who wants a low priced G4 machine.

I think Apple did this too soon. They need to increase market share with other products before they release a product that can only be aquired be a minority. </STRONG>

Normally I don't like to feed those who have no intention of even considering other people's arguments, but there's a first time for everything.

Your big problem is this whole niche within a niche issue of yours. But the question is...so what? Unless you're Fred Anderson (which for Apple's sake I hope not, since I'm sure he has infinitely better things to do), you don't know anything about how much or how little the eMac cost to research, produce, and market. For all we know there's an eMac tree in Cupertino that sprouts eMacs weekly, and Apple can restrict it to only left-handed Portugese lesbian nuns and will still make money. Sure they're only selling to education, but I doubt the eMac costs as much to engineer and design as something like the Cube. I mean, has anyone here talked about Apple LOSING education sales because there's an eMac on the Apple Store? I can't see what in the world is so wrong about offering a computer only to education.

And as for the whole "we should wait until the other 95% come around before offering an education computer to a crucial and loyal market segment" argument...again, why? Apple has been segementing their current userbase for sometime now. You can't use an iPod if you don't have FW, you can't use OS X unless you have a newer computer, and you can't use iDVD without a SuperDrive. Should Apple have waited for their entire userbase to upgrade to a G4 before moving to OS X? If not, why should Apple wait for an additional million Mac users before saying, "Hey Education, we've hit our quota, now here's an afforable computer that your students won't break."

[Andrew 8808]

Who cares if you think it will fail? Why are you so hung up about it? Schools need durable, reliable computers, and until the eMac, none of Apple's current machines really fit the bill. Anyhoo, I think it will do good. I do however think the prices could be a little lower, but as mentioned, Apple cuts deals. The eMac isn't for you, so don't worry about it. Pretend it never came out. It isn't some huge deal to be all bugged out over. Sheesh

[vvedge]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>I think Apple did this too soon. They need to increase market share with other products before they release a product that can only be aquired be a minority. </STRONG>

Apple's known for getting it out first, even if its not readily adopted,

IE: iPod

[Amorph]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>The computer market is a series of niches and as Apple expands they can start to identify and meet the needs of those niches.</STRONG>

You mean, as opposed to what they're doing now?

Name one piece of Apple hardware that is not targeted at a niche.

<STRONG>I think the e in eMac stands for ego rather than education. The exec staff at Apple is too egotistical to even see the blatent fact that the entire company only comprises a sliver of the whole market. "Well, we lead in everything so lets just keep going" attitude is a bad and scary one that I hope Apple doesnt have. Thats the attitude Steve had back in the early 80's, a blind ignorance to obvious facts.</STRONG>

The obvious facts are:
1) Apple does in fact lead in K-12 education;
2) Apple's lead has been threatened by Dell;
3) Apple had no compelling desktop offering for education;
4) The educational market is huge;
5) If you count higher ed, it's even bigger, and Apple's trying to make a play there too;
5) The educational market is crucial, because it exposes new people to the platform.

<STRONG>They didnt learn from the Cube, I think Apple needs to go back to school.</STRONG>

What didn't they learn from the Cube? The Cube was designed in a vacuum and aimed at a market that someone forecasted consisting mostly of single users. The eMac was tailored to meet the requests of a very real, very large market, with the assistance of the people in that market who will be buying these things truckloads at a time. Literally. It has a very slim profit margin for two reasons: One, education is all about up-front cost now (Steve said at the shareholder's meeting that Apple tried selling TCO and it doesn't work); and two, if you're selling a product by the (tens of) thousands, as part of a larger contract including software and services, you don't need to make a profit on each machine. Note that this is the only way to buy the $999 model - not because Apple is blind, but because that's the only reasonable way Apple can sell them.

<STRONG>I know Apple needs an education machine of some kind but I think the eMac isnt the one.</STRONG>

How isn't it? It's cheap, all-in-one, durable, has a reasonably small footprint, performs well, has an easily-accessible serial number, bar code, AirPort slot (which is lockable, so that it's not easily student accessible), and a rugged, full-sized CD tray. It has a 16 watt amplifier built in, unlike any other Apple product, specifically so that one of them can fill a room with sound (for class presentations), and analog audio in. That's just about tailor-made for educational uses.

What do you think an educational desktop should be like, if not that?

<STRONG>One more thing, why do a lot of people claim they want one of these eMac's? Becuase they could buy one and Apple wont let them. APPLE WONT LET SOME PEOPLE BUY ONE OF THEIR COMPUTERS??????!!!!!!! MARKETSHARE????</STRONG>

As you yourself have pointed out, anyone who's seriously jonesing for one of these things can get one.

That notwithstanding, 1) the profit margins on the eMac are not designed for consumer sales, which are usually done one machine at a time and thus require a larger profit per machine; and 2) imagine a salesperson trying to guide a customer between an eMac and an iMac, instead of just showing them an iMac. That's why it's in the education channel: It's not designed to be a consumer product. It's designed to be an education product. The education market is completely different than the consumer market, and one machine can't gracefully straddle both of them.

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by KarlG:
<STRONG>Please stop saying that we're getting reject LCD panels on the iMac! That simply isn't the case! It's been widely reported that Apple is using better grade materials on the LCD iMac, and that's one of the reasons the price went up! And please don't start about the stories of dead pixels; those are anecdotal, and the vast majority are fine. Please don't repeat what you want to hear.</STRONG>

I know the VP of hardware at Apple personally.

I could ask him if you want.

We get terrible LCD panels in these iMacs. There is incredible ghosting and a high possibility of dead pixels on these current iMacs. I mean, I have two, and both of them have dead pixels. I don't mind them incredibly, but no other computer, be it a PC LCD, Apple notebook, or PC notebook has come with bad pixels as frequently as I've seen on these iMacs.

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: seanyepez ]

[Macintosh]

Originally posted by Amorph:
<STRONG>

As you yourself have pointed out, anyone who's seriously jonesing for one of these things can get one.

That notwithstanding, 1) the profit margins on the eMac are not designed for consumer sales, which are usually done one machine at a time and thus require a larger profit per machine; and 2) imagine a salesperson trying to guide a customer between an eMac and an iMac, instead of just showing them an iMac. That's why it's in the education channel: It's not designed to be a consumer product. It's designed to be an education product. The education market is completely different than the consumer market, and one machine can't gracefully straddle both of them.</STRONG>

The eMac just isnt placed well. The eMac could very well straddle both the education market AND the low end consumer market that Wallstreet is pissed at Apple for because they neglect it.

Imagine a salesperson trying to guide a COLLEGE STUDENT between an iMac and an eMac. With the prices pretty close and the college student being perfectly capable of handeling an LCD computer, what machine would you choose?

The eMac could be a consumer product and I think it should be. If not then what is Apple doing about the low end? Apple is letting some marketshare escape them by not offering this thing to everybody.

[Superchicken]

Apple dosn't sell crappy computers.

And by the way, apple isn't letting the low end market die.

Ever seen a snow iMac... yeah see that's your low end buddy.
they still sell those things. And guess what, ThAT"S LOW END!
The G4 proccessor will not be low end for a bit now, so stop complaining about low end, apple's not negglecting it, they're just not telling people to buy less experincive computers, can you blame em?

[Macintosh]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
<STRONG>Apple dosn't sell crappy computers.

And by the way, apple isn't letting the low end market die.

Ever seen a snow iMac... yeah see that's your low end buddy.
they still sell those things. And guess what, ThAT"S LOW END!
The G4 proccessor will not be low end for a bit now, so stop complaining about low end, apple's not negglecting it, they're just not telling people to buy less experincive computers, can you blame em?</STRONG>

lol

[iamnid]

All I can say is that if I was in the market to get a new mac and only had $1000-1300, I'd get the eMac before I'd get the new iMac. That's because I like the larger screen and I think it seems more durable. Also I dislike that lcd's don't look too hot in any resolution other than their native one -- plus the eMac has very high resolution choices. Plus, it's cheaper than the new iMac. I can get a new eMac with essentially the same specs as a new iMac for much less: eMac w/ combo-drive = $1249. iMac w/ combo-drive = $1449 w/ edu discount.

Yeah I'd save the $200 thank you -- plus it's probably easier to upgrade the RAM in the eMac as opposed to having to void your warranty if you want to replace the upper ram module in the new iMac.


NO dead pixels -- EVER!

[SirCastor]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>

EXACTLY why your so called "confusion" theory does not hold water Mac. The only way you'll see an eMac is when you go to an Apple Ed store AT a school.

Mac Guru</STRONG>

I think we're actually arguing the same side of the field here. I don't expect there to be confusion.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>
lol</STRONG>

Oh man, can't you just stick it and shut up. By now, probably most people on this thread are getting sick and tired of you repeating the same old blabla.

Back off, none of us here (including you my friend) are clairvoyants. You just have an opinion about the future outcome and nothing more than that. Fine be it. We have another. We have understood each other and the line between us is clear. You don't have to repeat your little scheme each time you reply.

We could drop this whole freaking stupid discussion at once. In six months we can come back and see who was right. Probably the eMac will be doing just fine and schools will be buying them like hell. Everybody in this thread will think of you as a ridiculous moron and have a good laugh. So, don't act as if you were on a religious crusade - it's only your humble opinion, not more, not less.

We'll see in sixth months...

(Didn't want to get personal, but your stubborness of mind is incredible.)

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Simon C. Leemann ]

[sirlexelot]

Guys, relax! He's simply feeling threatened by the fact that he just blew all that money on a flat-panel iMac that has a smaller, dimmer screen that cost him too much (probably with a mess of dead pixels that are driving him nuts), with a DVD burner he'll never use, and he's trying to justify his position by bashing the clearly price-to-features ratio superior eMac.

The fact of the matter is, Apple isn't offering this computer to the average consumer because it would CANNIBALIZE iMac G4 sales in a heartbeat. Just because Apple customers like good fit and finish doesn't mean they're willing to blow needless money just to get a prettier computer - look at the cube.

As for the profit issue, let me spell it out. If I am Apple and build ONE eMac and it costs me $700, then I sell it for $1000, I just made PROFIT. Bottom line, no BS, no ambiguity, PROFIT. This is an oversimplification, but it clarifies just how it is that the eMac will, without a doubt, be profitable. This thing must've cost them FIVE CENTS to "R&D" (since it's a glorified snow iMac) and possibly TEN CENTS to build (since almost none of its components are unique to it, nor are many of them expensive in the first place). These things are bubbles of happy profit! Simply put, the education market was not about to buy the iMac G4. They will, however, buy this thing. As such, Apple retains/potentially expands their core education market share, which is KEY.

As for the consumer availability issue, here's the deal: If Joe Average price-conscious consumer trots over to the Apple Store and sees an eMac next to an iMac, he's not gonna have to think twice before he goes for the cheaper one with functionally the SAME FEATURE SET. It's like buying store brand toothpaste for a few bucks less than aqua-fresh. Now, the iMac actually cost something to R&D, as well as manufacture - its differentiating components are expensive and/or highly proprietary (that swivel arm sure ain't being sold for any OTHER reason). So, having spent so much money on R&D, production, and advertising, Apple can't afford to not sell these things as well as possible. As such, it would be a painfully poor business move to sell these things in the retail channel.

So, to summarize: Apple is going to earn profit with every singe eMac they sell, and at the same time retain/expand their core education market share. This thing will never sell in the consumer space because it would destroy iMac G4 sales. That's my two cents!

[Leia's Right Bun]

Just out of intrest would "Macintosh" happen to be retarded?

[Macintosh]

Originally posted by Leia's Right Bun:
<STRONG>Just out of intrest would "Macintosh" happen to be retarded?</STRONG>

That's just totally outrageous.

I may not like the eMac but I am a zealot Mac user that just sold my school on 250 of the new eMac's. Just because I dont think it will do well doesnt mean I dont want it to succede.

Yes, I see most of your reasoning here as "probably right" and mine may just be "flat out wrong" but in America we are aloud to speak out.

My opinion on the eMac HAS CHANGED. I think based on how easily it was for me to sell this thing to my school by just talking to the technology admin and then showing him the price/performance. My school was going to put their order in for older iMac's but someone else had stepped in and saved that decision. I then wanted to see what the guy thought of the eMac and he said that they would buy either that or the older iMac. I then convinced him on the eMac (cause I want to use it).&gt;&gt;&gt;I think the eMac will not fail but I STILL THINK that it should be brought to the rest of the market too.
Well, there you have it. Flop and die turns into 250 new eMac's for my school and god am I happy our aging bondi's and blueberrys are gone.

I REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT CHANGING MY SIGNATURE.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]

[Superchicken]

ahh you've seen the light my friend.

And it's comming from a CRT monitor

[edgarbarefoot]

You could get a Dell education machine without monitr for 500 bucks and add a 15 inch flat CRT for 150 bucks and come in under 1k.
&lt;br&gt;
Show me this machine.

[Macintosh]

Do you think Dell doesnt cut deals too? That was a generic price I pulled out of my ass.

By the way, the eMac is better than what we had, even if it isnt better for EVERYBODY.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]

[Mac Guru]

bringing something up from Pg.1

AI banned me for foul language

I know several admins and mods there and if I recall, you were banned for a multitude of reasons, foul language, racist jokes, multiple accounts etc.

You ARE a fairly volatile individule as many have witnessed in this thread. You really should look for all possible pro's and con's on a subject before arguing for several days. It HAS a purpose and will do quite well. I've sold many within minutes of showing people the page on apple.com.

Mac Guru

[Matsu]

Has no one posted this yet?

Macintosh, I think you will flop and die.

just kidding.

back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

[Macintosh]

I will be back at AI. In one form or another. Or am I already a member there?

P.S. I am not a bad person.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]

[murbot]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>That was a generic price I pulled out of my ass.</STRONG>

The same place you go to for content in most of your posts, how nice.

[Macintosh]

Originally posted by murbot:
<STRONG>

The same place you go to for content in most of your posts, how nice.</STRONG>

Precisely.

[datkinso]

Fact: My laboratory needed more computers.
Fact: For our purposes 1024x768 is too small, period.
Fact: The machine must be a Mac.
Fact: A G4 tower w/ 500meg and DVD/CD-RW is $1850
WITHOUT a monitor and therefore too expensive.

The only Mac that meets our requirements is the $1450 eMac. So I ordered them.

There is a real world (as real as the University world can be) need for the eMac. I saw it and my response was that it is a gift from God (or Steve).

I'd rather buy a dual processor 1 GHz machine with a monster Cinema Display, of course I'd rather be a millionaire too. They are equally likely.

The eMac is a good idea.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: datkinso ]

[Macintosh]

Originally posted by datkinso:
<STRONG>Fact: My laboratory needed more computers.
Fact: For our purposes 1024x768 is too small, period.
Fact: The machine must be a Mac.
Fact: A G4 tower w/ 500meg and DVD/CD-RW is $1850
WITHOUT a monitor and therefore too expensive.

The only Mac that meets our requirements is the $1450 eMac. So I ordered them.

There is a real world (as real as the University world can be) need for the eMac. I saw it and my response was that it is a gift from God (or Steve).

I'd rather buy a dual processor 1 GHz machine with a monster Cinema Display, of course I'd rather be a millionaire too. They are equally likely.

The eMac is a good idea.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: datkinso ]</STRONG>

Fact: Good for you.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>"The young people of America need be taught that the only pride they may properly hold is in the content of their character, and the achievements they make. There is no legitimate pride or moral credit to be gained by virtue of sharing the same race with a great and admirable individual. "
</STRONG>

Mac Guru, that must have been the most intelligent sig I've ever seen on these boards. Congrats!

[OddManOut]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>

Ok, I have been thinking about this for a day now and I have come to a conclusion.
The eMac will flop and die because it is a confusing mess in Apple's product line.</STRONG>

Thing once more. Of course time only will tell but the eMac is not only the computer the education sector has been waiting for but also the computer lots and lots of consumers have been asking for. It's all in one, it has a quality 17" CRT and looks nice too

[vvedge]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>

Fact: Good for you.</STRONG>

Fact: You're ignoring empirical evidence that schools and students WILL buy the eMac. More evidence than you're throwing around about Niches', product matrices, Cube flops, etc.

[Superchicken]

I just sold a University friend of mine on a new eMac, he's sick of his eMachine and once I told him it'd run star craft and won't freeze, and that Microsoft says that office is better for Mac.
He was sold

[mefogus]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
<STRONG>

I know the VP of hardware at Apple personally.

I could ask him if you want.

We get terrible LCD panels in these iMacs. There is incredible ghosting and a high possibility of dead pixels on these current iMacs. I mean, I have two, and both of them have dead pixels. I don't mind them incredibly, but no other computer, be it a PC LCD, Apple notebook, or PC notebook has come with bad pixels as frequently as I've seen on these iMacs.

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: seanyepez ]</STRONG>

I can't speak for your experience, but I've had two iBooks, a Studio Display, and a new iMac in my time, none of which had a single dead pixel (lucky I guess). In contrast, my company purchases Dell Ispiron laptops for all employees and I'd say that 30-40% have dead pixels (including mine). I really don't think that dead pixels are Apple's problem; instead I think that it is the nature of the beast.

-m