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shifuimam · Jul 17, 2007, 03:23 PM

I'll try to keep this as locale-ambiguous as possible.

I'm just curious to know. It's obvious where certain users stand in their political viewpoints and ideals, but it's vague for many others.

Doofy · Jul 17, 2007, 03:32 PM

<--- Minarchist, so voted Libertarian.

Big Mac · Jul 17, 2007, 03:44 PM

I take issue with your description of libertarianism, but having said that I am a libertarian Republican/Goldwater Republican.

Rumor · Jul 17, 2007, 04:10 PM

I do not fit on any of those categories.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 04:13 PM

Nice, an open poll for once.

Spliffdaddy · Jul 17, 2007, 04:15 PM

Yeah, but we already know where most of the members fit.
When these sort of polls have been done in the past nobody wanted to admit to being a liberal. But, nevertheless, the place is crawling with them.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 04:17 PM

Still, almost no one, anywhere on the site makes open polls. Its taboo or something.

Spliffdaddy · Jul 17, 2007, 04:18 PM

keeps out the riff-raff. I bet I could name all the members who won't participate because they don't want to openly admit their affiliation.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 04:20 PM

Yeah, I'm not talking just PL chief.

osiris · Jul 17, 2007, 04:36 PM

In bizarro world, where I am supreme lord, I rule with an iron fist under my dictatorship. People bow before me, and women weep.

So I voted for dictatorship. Maybe something in South America, circa 1960s...

In reality - a somewhat progressive / libertarian rule would better suit me as a mere citizen.

shifuimam · Jul 17, 2007, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Yeah, but we already know where most of the members fit.
When these sort of polls have been done in the past nobody wanted to admit to being a liberal. But, nevertheless, the place is crawling with them.

Dude, it's an Apple fan site. Non-liberal Apple fans are few and far between. I know they exist, but most (if not all) of the fanboys I know IRL are definitely liberals.

Doofy · Jul 17, 2007, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Non-liberal Apple fans are few and far between.

Which shows just how stupid libs are.

In a totally socialist/lib society, you wouldn't be able to afford a Mac (or an equivalent Dell) 'coz your government would be taxing the hell out of you. You'd have to make do with a 386. Unless you got a job in "the party", in which case you could have a 486. DX2, no less.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 05:02 PM

Man, you are extra cranky about liberals today. One screw you over today or something?

Doofy · Jul 17, 2007, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Man, you are extra cranky about liberals today. One screw you over today or something?

Libs screw me over every day. It's what they do.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 05:39 PM

Yeah, yeah, something extra special today, then?

Spliffdaddy · Jul 17, 2007, 05:52 PM

The fundamentalist progressive threat is very real. Until each and every American is willing and prepared to fight these extremists where they live and breed - we will never be safe. We'll bring the fight to them. In THIS forum, otherwise we'll end up fighting them here on our shores.

BRussell · Jul 17, 2007, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Nice, an open poll for once.

Oh ****, I didn't know everyone was going to see how I voted and so I voted for dictatorship.

Dakarʒ · Jul 17, 2007, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Oh ****, I didn't know everyone was going to see how I voted and so I voted for dictatorship.

Oh hell, I thought you did it for laughs. I was almost inspired to take anarchy by your lead.

BRussell · Jul 17, 2007, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Oh hell, I thought you did it for laughs. I was almost inspired to take anarchy by your lead.

I did do it for laughs, I just didn't know I was going to be identified.

ThinkInsane · Jul 17, 2007, 10:11 PM

Honestly, I have no idea which of those choices I'd associate myself with at this point. I'm registered as a Republican, although the only real reasons that hasn't changed is so I can vote in the primary and the fact that the other party is just as bad. Neither are representing my interests these days, and I don't believe they are representing the principles they were founded upon.

I guess I'd probably consider myself more of a libertarian at this point, although I don't think that quite fits either. Would it be too much to ask to have a party somewhere in the middle of the big two, that represents the people, the rule of law, and limits the extremes of right and left? I'm really not happy with the political climate of this country these days.

Doofy · Jul 17, 2007, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Would it be too much to ask to have a party somewhere in the middle of the big two, that represents the people, the rule of law, and limits the extremes of right and left?

The "Bugger Off And Leave Us Alone To Live Our Lives Without Listening To Your Crap You Mental Politician Bastards" party?

Reckon that'd get votes?

ThinkInsane · Jul 18, 2007, 11:02 AM

I must admit, that does have a certain ring to it. I like it

Rumor · Jul 18, 2007, 01:11 PM

Doof, I think you are on to something...

sek929 · Jul 18, 2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The "Bugger Off And Leave Us Alone To Live Our Lives Without Listening To Your Crap You Mental Politician Bastards" party?

Reckon that'd get votes?

Sh!t, you got my vote

olePigeon · Jul 18, 2007, 01:55 PM

I don't fit any of the choices on the poll.

Spliffdaddy · Jul 18, 2007, 02:10 PM

2nd one down from the top.

Glad to help ya out.

What did I say about liberals never wanting to admit to it?

Doofy · Jul 18, 2007, 02:24 PM

olePigeon · Jul 18, 2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

2nd one down from the top.

Glad to help ya out.

What did I say about liberals never wanting to admit to it?

And as a typical conservative you come to the completely wrong conclusion.

I have always been on the fence between the two ideals and parties, taking from both what I find agreeable, and criticizing what I find despicable. Hence, why I don't fit any of the options available.

shifuimam · Jul 18, 2007, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

And as a typical conservative you come to the completely wrong conclusion.

I have always been on the fence between the two ideals and parties, taking from both what I find agreeable, and criticizing what I find despicable. Hence, why I don't fit any of the options available.

Which is why I worded it as "which do you most identify with". Nobody is 100% in the middle. If you're anti-abortion but otherwise support a liberal platform, you'd most identify with the liberal/democrat/progressive category.

I'm surprised that so few people voted in this poll. Is it because it's open and you don't want people to know how you really think politically? See, I don't get that. If you feel so strongly about something that you want your chosen candidate to fight for it, and you want others to see things your way, you certainly shouldn't be ashamed of what party you associate with.

"You" there being the collective "those on this board who didn't respond to the poll" - it's not directed at any one person here.

Rumor · Jul 18, 2007, 07:15 PM

Independent should have been an option.

D. S. Troyer · Jul 19, 2007, 01:49 AM

I voted liberal cuz I'm mentally disturbed but I'm really a serial killer and a right wingnut job.

Hmmmm...libertarian...everything legal...even killing lefties? OK, libertarian!

Wait...maybe we can dig up Stalin and kill millions instead of one every full moon.

BRussell · Jul 19, 2007, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I'm surprised that so few people voted in this poll. Is it because it's open and you don't want people to know how you really think politically? See, I don't get that. If you feel so strongly about something that you want your chosen candidate to fight for it, and you want others to see things your way, you certainly shouldn't be ashamed of what party you associate with.

We all know where the regular posters stand.

Chuckit · Jul 19, 2007, 10:39 AM

I hadn't figured so few would be willing to identify themselves as liberal or conservative. Probably should have, but I didn't.

Dakarʒ · Jul 19, 2007, 10:40 AM

I never thought libertarian would be the leading choice. And an odd mishmash of people to boot.

Doofy · Jul 19, 2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

I never thought libertarian would be the leading choice. And an odd mishmash of people to boot.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

...unless your happiness is caused by gambling across state lines, smoking in bars, owning a full-auto weapon, having more than one wife, not paying any taxes, smoking the weed, yadda yadda yadda.

Dammit. When did America go so wrong?
(The UK was always wrong. You guys were supposed to show us how it's done)

besson3c · Jul 19, 2007, 11:08 AM

Shifulmam,

One needs to separate the political party from their personal ideology when having these sorts of discussions. The positions of the parties are not constant, universal, and since most people don't agree with everything their party does this is sort of an awkward way to get a sense of our political compass. If you wanted to ask "what party do you like right now?", we could get into the usual partisan "my party is better than your party" crap, and you moreorless would get a sense as to how strongly a certain sample of people feels about their party.

The better way to get a sense of our political compass is to try to place us on a scale between free market/capitalism - socialism and anarchy - communism (complete government control). Everybody falls somewhere on this scale, and political scientists generally use this as a gauge of political compass.

In order to test this, some basic questions about how much economic regulation you are in favor of and to what extent government should control our lives might work.

Of course, because there is so much disdain for the current political climate, people might say "no government control, man" just as an emotional statement, even though this contradicts the very nature of what politics is: the process of deciding who controls what and how.

Me, I feel that we need regulation in both our economy and in managing how society is run. However, I'm very much against government creating and enforcing policy on the social issues of the day: abortion, gay marriage, etc. If I were to have lived several years ago, one might think that I'd be a Republican. However, this isn't the case today since Republicans seem to be leading the charge in trying to outlaw these sorts of things.

Rumor · Jul 19, 2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by D. S. Troyer

I voted liberal cuz I'm mentally disturbed but I'm really a serial killer and a right wingnut job.

Hmmmm...libertarian...everything legal...even killing lefties? OK, libertarian!

Wait...maybe we can dig up Stalin and kill millions instead of one every full moon.

Your attempt at humor has horribly failed.

Rumor · Jul 19, 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

...unless your happiness is caused by gambling across state lines, smoking in bars, owning a full-auto weapon, having more than one wife, not paying any taxes, smoking the weed, yadda yadda yadda.

Dammit. When did America go so wrong?
(The UK was always wrong. You guys were supposed to show us how it's done)

I ask myself that same question often.

Faust · Jul 19, 2007, 06:49 PM

I'm leaning more towards left.

Spliffdaddy · Jul 19, 2007, 07:29 PM

Well lean the other way, dammit, before you fall on your ass.

Spliffdaddy · Jul 19, 2007, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Independent should have been an option.

pfft. puhleeze. "Independent" is what liberals call themselves so they don't have to say the word
"liberal". There exists no such thing as "independent". So pick one of the choices offered.

Faust · Jul 19, 2007, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Well lean the other way, dammit, before you fall on your ass.

That's a bad idea. I'm irreversibly paralized on the other end.

Rumor · Jul 20, 2007, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

pfft. puhleeze. "Independent" is what liberals call themselves so they don't have to say the word
"liberal". There exists no such thing as "independent". So pick one of the choices offered.

I agree and disagree with many different issues. I'm neither Liberal nor Conservative, Republican nor Democrat. I am not a Libertarian, Ararchist, Communist. Where does that leave me?

besson3c · Jul 20, 2007, 02:59 PM

Spliffdaddy: literally over 90% of the US population of the US are independents or apolitical. The breakdown is:

10% political ideologues
20% swing voters
70% apolitical

Dakarʒ · Jul 20, 2007, 03:01 PM

That doesn't sound right at all.

How about a link?

shifuimam · 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I agree and disagree with many different issues. I'm neither Liberal nor Conservative, Republican nor Democrat. I am not a Libertarian, Ararchist, Communist. Where does that leave me?

I should have added a "fill in your own here" option.

Which do you most identify with - or are you completely unlike any existing political party? (not trying to start a flamewar - just wondering)

Spliffdaddy · Jul 20, 2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Spliffdaddy: literally over 90% of the US population of the US are independents or apolitical. The breakdown is:

10% political ideologues
20% swing voters
70% apolitical

So explain what happens on election day.

5% vote for independents and the remaining 95% vote for either Democrats or Republicans. You can call yourself anything you want. The results are always the same.

Maybe the question should be "which political party will you vote for next November?"
Hell, I'm a Republican. I want to vote for Newt Gingrich. If he isn't on the ballot I'll vote for some other mofo that believes he/she is a Republican.

OreoCookie · Jul 20, 2007, 04:21 PM

You mix political structures, political parties and political philosophies in one bag. Some Libertarians are Republicans. Not all Republicans are Libertarian. Some elements of the (extreme) right or left want a totalitarian state, but that doesn't mean all do. It's a useless poll.

Rumor · Jul 20, 2007, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I should have added a "fill in your own here" option.

Which do you most identify with - or are you completely unlike any existing political party? (not trying to start a flamewar - just wondering)

I really don't identify with any of them. I try not to follow a political party when possible and attempt to focus on the issues at hand. In the case of selecting who to vote for, I try to weigh them by their previous merits, since we all know that campaigning is 99% BS promises.

BRussell · Jul 20, 2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I really don't identify with any of them. I try not to follow a political party when possible and attempt to focus on the issues at hand. In the case of selecting who to vote for, I try to weigh them by their previous merits, since we all know that campaigning is 99% BS promises.

The problem with that position is that politicians aren't independent. They choose a party based on their beliefs, and the party they choose then also influences their policies. There's definitely some variation with a party, but I'd say that you can predict a politician's voting behavior better via party affiliation than any other factor.

I'd even go so far as to say that focusing on personal qualities obscures things rather than clarifies them, because personal qualities are so hard to pin down objectively. As a liberal, if I got taken in by the "personal qualities" of a conservative with good hair and white teeth who can talk a good game, I will have made a poor choice. Unfortunately, those are the kinds of factors upon which the vast, vast majority of independents probably base their votes.