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Zoom_zoom · Jul 12, 2002, 09:47 AM

Hi all, I am new to MacNN and i searched for this topic but couldn't actually find any infomation about it.
Any way i have an intrest of buying an ibook and i was wondering if anybody has heard of any infomation if a G4 ibook will every be released??

well thanks a lot!
- ZoOm ZOom

Commodus · Jul 12, 2002, 10:20 AM

Welcome to MacNN; hopefully you'll enjoy your stay.

Unfortunately, there's nothing in the near future regarding G4 iBooks. The iBook was just updated a couple of months ago, so at best you'd see new iBooks in November (assuming Apple's 6-month update rule holds) and those too would probably end up being faster G3s rather than G4s.

The main reason is power consumption; right now the G3 is considerably more efficient (if for no other reason than its being a simpler chip) and really helps give Apple an edge in terms of useable battery life, up to 6 hours on the 14" iBook model! G4 iBooks will be introduced when Apple can expect to get better-than-the-average-laptop power consumption out of them. Not necessarily 6 hours, but 4 or 5 would be "good enough," I'd think.

As such, if you want an iBook in the near future, you may as well get one as soon as OSX "Jaguar" (it'll probably be called OSX 10.2 or 10.5) comes preloaded on one; at the latest that should be mid-August, but you may be able to pre-order one as of the MacWorld New York Expo (which starts this Wednesday, the 17th). "Jaguar" is supposed to offer speed boosts even for iBooks, and that on top of the new features would definitely make it more worthwhile. Just be sure to stock up on RAM for that iBook; the more you have, the better OSX will run no matter which version you're using.

Bernard Ducamp · Jul 12, 2002, 11:24 AM

When will there be a G4 iBook?
-------------------
I believe, based on what has been read and said for many months now, that Apple and Motorola both hold the position that G3's and G4's both "have legs."

If you want a G4 portable, get a PowerBook. If you want an iBook, get one based on its performance and capabilities.

Bernard Ducamp · Jul 12, 2002, 11:25 AM

When will there be a G4 iBook?
-------------------
I believe, based on what has been read and said for many months now, that Apple and Motorola both hold the position that G3's and G4's both "have legs."

If you want a G4 portable, get a PowerBook. If you want an iBook, get one based on its performance and capabilities.

King_Rat · Jul 12, 2002, 11:30 AM

I agree with Commodus in that there will not be a G4 ibook any time soon. However, it may be worth your getting your ibook right after MacWorld. If you wait until OS 10.2 comes out I doubt that you will get any better hardware; just a better OS. An upgrade for the current Mac os X will probably cost something (like the 10.1 upgrade did) but I doubt that it will be more than 1 month of use of an ibook is worth. Also, remember that we just think that 10.2 will come out in August, we don't know that it will; it might be a month or two later.

-King_Rat

Jet Powers · Jul 12, 2002, 12:58 PM

I'm going to disagree. I think the iBook will g4 in the next six months.

Jet

lethe · Jul 12, 2002, 03:56 PM

i read on one of the rumor sites (maybe macrumors.com?) that we won t see a G4 iBook until the G5 makes it into at least the powermac. they want the G4 to be perceived as a processor for the more high end machines, and it will erode the desire to buy a powerbook when the ibook has a G4.

but i guess that turned out not to be so important in the imac/powermac case: imac has a G4, doesn t it?

funkboy · Jul 12, 2002, 04:00 PM

A month or so back Apple had an interview with a guy at MacCentral and he said he still thinks the G3 iBook runs OS X just fine, or maybe even excellent. It was a bit optimistic, tho I haven't used OS X on a new 700MHz iBook so I don't know how it compares to my iBook 500 (which, really, after tweaking it a bit in the last couple of days has made it seem a lot more spunky).

I'm hoping an iBook with a G4 will come out at MWNY - if so, I'm buying one for school in the fall. Otherwise, I'm waiting to buy one until I see how 10.2 runs on my iBook and the new iBooks. Once 10.2 is released I'll be making a trip to some Apple Store... even tho the nearest one is like a 9 hour drive away...

macusrX · Jul 12, 2002, 09:10 PM

as much as everyone wants the G4 iBook Apple will wait till at least MWSF at the earliest i think.... the new G3 chips scale to 1GHz and obviously some at Apple think there is enough life in it. the only thing i think that will push-up us getting a G4 iBook will be a complete motherboard change to necessitate something like built in Bluetooth, etc.

the iBooks are nice for eveyday things. but as any test will show you- any thing that is a G4 (alti-vec) optimised app [remember the OS is too!] is quicker with a G4. just go look over at <a href="http://www.barefeats.com" target="_blank">www.barefeats.com</a>

mikerally · Jul 13, 2002, 08:13 AM

The problem is as simple is this...

Apple is not going to introduce a G4 based iBook until the G4 based iMac becomes more affordable.

As it stands right now, the G4 based iMac is more expensive than the average iBook:

Base model iBook = $1199
Base model G4 iMac = $1399

Combo iBook = $1499
Combo G4 iMac = $1599

Top model iBook = $1799
Top model G4 iMac = $1899

You're not going to see a G4 based iBook until the G4 based iMac gets cheaper, e.g. the base model selling for less than $1199.

There are strong rumors that Apple will be discontinuing the classic G3 iMac very soon - this may make room for price falls to accomodate the gap they leave.

Troll · Jul 13, 2002, 12:13 PM

If Apple thinks that the G3 still has legs, how come the iBook is the only computer they make that still has a G3 in it? Yes, I know the classic iMac is still available, but it's not being updated and will probably slip quietly from the catalog after Macworld. I don't think anyone at Apple still believes in the G3. They still sell it in the iBook because they have no other way of differentiating their product line or making a cheap laptop.

I'm in the market for a new computer and I'm staying far away from an iBook because it's a G3. It's doesn't have Altivec, it can't do Quartz extreme - it's a second class citizen in OSX. I think if they don't get G4's in the iBooks, they are going to have problems selling them ... and it won't take more than 6 months for those problems to manifest.

Much as it pains me to part with the cash and much as the Powerbook's screen etc. is probably more than I need, I think there is only one Apple portable that is a viable option at this point in time and it's made of Titanium!

mgl · Jul 13, 2002, 02:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Troll:
If Apple thinks that the G3 still has legs, how come the iBook is the only computer they make that still has a G3 in it? Yes, I know the classic iMac is still available, but it's not being updated and will probably slip quietly from the catalog after Macworld. I don't think anyone at Apple still believes in the G3. They still sell it in the iBook because they have no other way of differentiating their product line or making a cheap laptop.

I'm in the market for a new computer and I'm staying far away from an iBook because it's a G3. It's doesn't have Altivec, it can't do Quartz extreme - it's a second class citizen in OSX. I think if they don't get G4's in the iBooks, they are going to have problems selling them ... and it won't take more than 6 months for those problems to manifest.

Much as it pains me to part with the cash and much as the Powerbook's screen etc. is probably more than I need, I think there is only one Apple portable that is a viable option at this point in time and it's made of Titanium!<hr /></blockquote>I disagree. The new iBooks can do Quartz Extreme. Not as well as a 32MB card would do it, but then again, a 700mhz processor isn't going to be as fast as a 1ghz processor, so why would you expect top of the line graphics in a lightweight portable?

I have an iBook 600 combo. I'm sitting out the 700mhz round because my iBook is just 8 months old. But the day the next generation ships, I'll buy one. I expect that the next generation will be a G3 800, still with a 100mhz bus. Why would I upgrade? 33% CPU speed increase, larger L2 cache which adds a lot, faster combo drive, and the 16MB card to enable quart extreme (mine has 8MB). This would be a huge upgade in just a year, with at least a 50% overall performance improvement.

I want the lightest 12" notebook Apple can give me, with the longest battery life possible. If I wanted faster performance, I'd trade size and weight for a PowerBook's speed.

Face it. The reason everybody wants a G4 in an iBook is because they want the speed of a PowerBook at an iBook's price.

Would I buy an iBook at a PowerBook price if it had PowerBook performance? Definitely, as long as the battery life was good. But would you?

Troll · Jul 13, 2002, 04:59 PM

If the iBooks had 400MHz G4's in them with the same graphics card they have now, I'd be more inclined to buy one. I don't expect Powerbook performance at iBook price but I want value for money and if I have to buy 2 iBooks in the same time I would buy 1 Powerbook, then the Powerbook is better value for money.

If you buy an iBook now, in all likelihood you'll have a chip that is no longer sold by Apple in 12 months time and that will affect your computer's ability to perform down the line (with soft and hardware optimised for G4/G5's) as well as your resale value. If you buy a Powerbook, those problems will be less serious. I think you'll find though that most people who realise that the iBook is the last Apple computer to use a G3 (and think that is a problem) won't be upgrading to Powerbooks, they'll be going for PC's.

PS Not that mgl is guilty of this but ... People who complain about the weight difference between an iBook and a Powerbook remind me of those weekend cyclists who spend $1,000 more to get a bike that is 200g lighter than their mate's ... when they could just as well cycle a little harder and lose 200g of body fat!

For the record, the Powerbook is 200g heavier than the 12" iBook and 250g lighter than the 14" iBook. The iBook and the Powerbook have the same battery life. The real difference between the Powerbook and the iBook, apart from performance and potentially ruggedness, is width (the Powerbook is 56mm wider than the 12" iBook and 1.8mm wider than the 14").

mgl · Jul 13, 2002, 09:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Troll:
If the iBooks had 400MHz G4's in them with the same graphics card they have now, I'd be more inclined to buy one.<hr /></blockquote>I would not take a G4 400/100 over a G3 700/100. I might take a G4 533/133 over a G3 700/100.

In any case, Apple isn't going to release a 400mhz laptop. They'd be laughed out of the marketplace. There is a mhz myth.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
PS Not that mgl is guilty of this but ... People who complain about the weight difference between an iBook and a Powerbook remind me of those weekend cyclists who spend $1,000 more to get a bike that is 200g lighter than their mate's ... when they could just as well cycle a little harder and lose 200g of body fat!<hr /></blockquote>I carry my iBook in my briefcase everywhere I go all day. (Tip: Timberland sells a professional leather briefcase with a padded slot that is perfect for an iBook.) A PowerBook wouldn't fit and I'd need a special bag. And I have enough weight to lug through an airport and to clients, I'd rather not have the extra 4 ounces. My briefcase is stripped to the bare essentials because it's on my shoulder so much.

Remember that if a G4 is added to the iBook, the weight will go up past that of a PB. The PB has a more lighter design. The iBook is built for rugged use by kids and travelers. A G4 would run hotter, the case would have to be a bit thicker, another fan would be needed, and the battery would have to be made larger to get the same battery life. (The PB is a 55 WH batter, the iBook is a 47.)

If I had a PB, it would be dead by now. I've logged a lot of miles with my iBook, dropped it onto the parking lot at the airport once, and dropped it in my briefcase several times. I toss my briefcase in the car and into airplane bins without a second thought. It just won't die. There's no way a PB would have survived.

OreoCookie · Jul 14, 2002, 05:00 AM

We won't see it any time soon. Time enough to save my money for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Eug · Jul 14, 2002, 10:29 AM

Those who say we want the power of a G4 in an iBook: Correct. Otherwise we wouldn't have this thread.

Those who say we want the power of a Powerbook at the iBook's price: Maybe in a sense, but what we really want is the G4's power without all the other features, at an affordable price. We don't want a 15" screen, We don't want slot load drives. We don't need a titanium shell. We don't care about PCMCIA. We don't care about Gigabit Ethernet. Etc. So in other words. We don't want a Powerbook at an iBook's price, we want a more powerful and versatile iBook and slightly higher than the current iBook's price.

Those who say a G3 still has legs: If that were the case, Apple wouldn't have scrapped it in essentially every other advertised computer in its lineup, and Apple would not be building its OS and software around Altivec.

Those who say a G4 iBook would require a significant design change and the iBook would thus be much heavier: Based on what? I'm no expert, but this seems on pure less-than-well-informed speculation.

Those who say weight on a bicycle doesn't matter and it's not worth spending money on a lighter bike: Well, I wouldn't generally spend $1000 to lose 200 g on parts, but one must not forget that lots of pieces on bikes in the higher price range are also better quality. ie. On a mountain bike going from a cheap crankset to an LX crankset is going to save a significant amount of weight, and at the same time get you better shifting. On the other hand, on a road bike, going from Ultegra hubs to Dura Ace hubs may not get you better performance and will just save you some weight.

Jet Powers · Jul 14, 2002, 01:59 PM

I don't want to be the minority voice, but if the tradeoff for the G4 was the loss of the 512 K L2 full speed cache, it might not be worth it.

The G4's used in TiBooks have only 256 K of L2 full speed cache. Granted, they also have an L3 cache, but there is no way (IMO) that Apple would put an equivalent TiBook proc in the iBook. So, you'd probaby get a G4 without L3.

Furthermore, one of the reasons that iBook get's its long battery life is because the IBM 750FX draws a lot les power than the Motorola 7455.

The IBM 750FX is a pretty good proc, and people shouldn't slag on it without considering the tradeoffs to moving over to Motorola's 7455.

Jet

Group51 · Jul 14, 2002, 04:05 PM

The G4 iBook isn't coming anytime soon (certainly not before next year I'd guess). I read that the newer G4s were lower in power consumption, but they aren't low or cool enough yet to do without a fan.

I got an iBook 600 at the end of last year. I won't be upgrading till there is a G4 in the iBook. The story of OS X is that you can get by on a G3, but you really need a G4. The current iBooks will benefit from 10.2 (Quartz Extreme), but all the iApps are Altivec accelerated. iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie etc are optimised for the G4.

I was annoyed that my iBook wouldn't get Quartz Extreme, I won't be burned again if I can help it. <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Morpheus X · Jul 14, 2002, 05:16 PM

The main reason i don't believe we will see an iBook G4 soon is IBM...i dont think Apple is going to let IBM down. IBM might stop producing ppc prozessors and the consquences would be that Apple has only one producer left and thats Motorola....that way Apple would completely give themself into the hands of Motorola...only when IBM decides to produce G4`s like Motorola we will get an iBook G4...but then again in a few days we will be smarter i think :-)

Troll · Jul 15, 2002, 06:50 AM

Smalldog.com has a clearance sale on iBooks - 12" 500's right up to 14" 600's.

I'm not suggesting that means something new is on the way, but the deals are pretty good if you're in the market.

[ 07-15-2002, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Troll ]

Troll · Jul 17, 2002, 02:45 AM

Then of course there is the $$ factor. My suspicions that G3 iBooks will become increasingly difficult to sell appear to be confirmed by <a href="http://www.macminute.com/lib/020716q3no.shtml" target="_blank">MacMinute</a> . Maybe no new G4's at Macworld, but I still think they'll have to do it soon.

Langdon · Jul 17, 2002, 04:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Troll:
Maybe no new G4's at Macworld, but I still think they'll have to do it soon.<hr /></blockquote>NOT before the G5 happens, so if they go with a G4 in an iBook you are looking at 9 months min. Now that the CRT iMac is on the way out the iBook will be the last G3 and yes they will feel the pressue but I doubt they will yeild to it until they move into the next generation of Powermac towers.

tycheung · Jul 19, 2002, 05:03 PM

personally, I think the PPC architecture needs a shot in the arm. I think IBM is the only company that can do this at this point. Moto is in disarray. IBM is experiencing a slump, but I think they are fairly healthy, despite selling off their hard drive division (bummer. my 120GXP drive is an excellent drive.).

I'm not too well versed in the architecture of microprocessors, so I don't know how the 750fx compares with the latest G4e in terms of pipelines and core designs and all of that, but it seems like the 750fx incorporates tech such as SOI, fast cache, and all that stuff really well, which shows that IBM is still at least putting up a serious effort in keeping the PPC platform up to speed. I think somebody has to make a new AIM deal happen, or maybe even an AIMA deal - throw AMD into the bunch, and give PPC r&d a shot in the arm, a momentum similar to the rabid r&d efforts being done by Intel and AMD right now. Maybe throw in some of the tech from the POWER4 or some other higher end PPC variants. It seems pretty obvious, at least it appears to us outsiders trying to look in, that moto is moribund and is trying to avoid going down the tubes, and can't prop up PPC R&D by itself to compete with Intel and AMD.

I suspect a lot of Apple's performance lag is also in the motherboard design as well - PC clone companies are releasing chipset and motherboard designs like crazy - the latest ones are 266 mHz buses, with 333 mHz - 400 mHz DDR-RAM and other goodies. In addition, i think someone mentioned on this board that OS X is still based on the BSD 4.2 release, whereas the latest BSD release is at 5.0. so maybe apple has still has a way to go in reversing the brain drain of the '90s and to supercharge its r&d and software dev divisions. To tell you the truth, I'd feel a lot better if instead of allocating programmers to iCal and iChat, and all those other iApps, they put them towards OS X dev. There are a lot of good small companies that apple can acquire that can handle the dev work on iApps (i.e. buy karelia and let them continue to dev Watson, hire the Fire and Adium guys to do iChat, etc).

[ 07-19-2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: tycheung ]

PowerMatt · Jul 21, 2002, 12:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lethe:
i read on one of the rumor sites (maybe macrumors.com?) that we won t see a G4 iBook until the G5 makes it into at least the powermac. they want the G4 to be perceived as a processor for the more high end machines, and it will erode the desire to buy a powerbook when the ibook has a G4.

but i guess that turned out not to be so important in the imac/powermac case: imac has a G4, doesn t it?<hr /></blockquote>Apple has proven not to hold firmly to this idea. We have seen iMacs and eMac go G4 while current PowerMacs have stayed G4. Other companies (Dell, etc) offer many different options with similar processors and other hardware. It gives the buyer more options. I think Apple has chosen wisely to break up the holy quad of Mac products (PM, PB, iM, & iB) in order to increase its appeal to those looking for some variety. Proof of this: Dell has about 7 notebooks listed on its page for Higher Education Notebooks. There are few processor choices, but many other choices as far as screen size, weight, battery life, form factor, etc. More choices = more potential buyers.

Just thought I'd contribute my $0.02 to this discussion.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 25, 2002, 06:23 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Morpheus X:
The main reason i don't believe we will see an iBook G4 soon is IBM...i dont think Apple is going to let IBM down. IBM might stop producing ppc prozessors and the consquences would be that Apple has only one producer left and thats Motorola....that way Apple would completely give themself into the hands of Motorola...only when IBM decides to produce G4`s like Motorola we will get an iBook G4...but then again in a few days we will be smarter i think :-)<hr /></blockquote>IBM "decided" to do this a *long* time ago.

Problem: Altivec belongs to Motorola, and they WON'T license.

Apple already IS completely at the mercy of Motorola. If IBM were allowed and in charge of G4 production, we'd very likely be pushing 2 GHz by now.

-s*

jmatero · Jul 25, 2002, 10:02 AM

I have a PowerBook G4 at my office and now I'm looking for a low-cost laptop for home. At home, I surf the web and maybe play a little music. An occasional DVD. That's it. No HIGH END photoshop... just some light photo retouching.

Now, my wife has a graphite ibook at home that she uses for the same thing... itunes, light photoshop, web surfing. She and I toss the ibook on the bed, use it on the couch, bring it on the boat to watch DVD's, even use it in the car on occasion. She even brings it to the park on her lunch breaks. As both a Ti and ibook user I can tell you this.... There is NO WAY the Ti Book would hold up used anywhere but a desk. The case scratches easily and the lid is thin as hell. To top it off, I work as an IT specialist and we have 100 or more Ti's floating around and I have YET to see one that doesn't eventually have the screen scratched up by the keyboard. We also send at least 2 a week back to apple for one reason or another. HOWEVER... we also have well over 100 OLD ibooks and almost 50 new ibooks and we RARELY... if ever... send them back for any repair. The cases look new and hold up to abuse, the batteries stay put, the screens have no damage, the cd's (non slot loading is an advantage) always work.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love one as a desktop substitute but as a TRUE portable you can lug around, the iBook can't be beat. I can't toss a Tibook on the bed and surf the web. I would NEVER lug it on the boat or bring it to a park and place it on a picnic table. It's just to delicate. I'd LOVE a tibook clad like the iBook. A little bulkier but indestructable. That's the iBook advantage. I'm looking for a portable for home and I'm really thinking of going for the 700mhz 12" combo drive model... $100 off at Amazon + free shipping and no tax.

Bernard Ducamp · Jul 25, 2002, 11:52 AM

Question: If Apple thinks that the G3 still has legs, how come the iBook is the only computer they make that still has a G3 in it?

Answer: The G3 is a very energy-efficient processor. It draws about 5 Watts at 700 MHz. It is ideal for portable applications. Any desktop (including iMac and eMac) is powered from 120 VAC and so doesn't need to consider energy efficiency.

The iBook is the energy-efficient portable in Apple's product line.

Superchicken · Jul 25, 2002, 03:39 PM

I'm planning on buying an iMac and an iBook for college. 17 inch iMac and 12 inch ibook

I'd buy a 600Mhz iBook, or whatever the low end is then. My main thing is the graphics card for things that will require quartz extream.
I'm going to have the iMac with G4 for those nice G4 tasks, iTunes mainly, and I'll transfer my ripped Mp3s by Firewire

BUT one thing is, I'd deffinately like to be able to show off my photos under OS X on an iBook, and I wouldn't like having them be any where near as slow rendering as my imac 333!
twice as fast in my opinion is NOT good enough, I mean this thing takes a LONG Time in iPhoto, and for a photo veiwing app that's pretty sad.
I think one way Apple could do it, granted this would take a bit of proccessor speed, would be to have an option of kinda like compressing your photo veiwing lists, so instead of working with the like 2 mega pixel file, do something where it'll create a 400/400 or whatever size file kinda in some sorta batch proccess of all you new imported files, and then they'd display much faster!
then again... it might already do this.... in which case I'm just a rambleing moron and you should ignore me

But I would be much more inclined to buy a new iBook if they had a G4 in them, but... if I can't get the money there's also a good chance I'll go with an iMac and a used 366 iBook.