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a holck · May 30, 2002, 02:59 PM

let's have a standing ovation for the hard working programmers

ford prefect · May 30, 2002, 04:56 PM

All I can say is that you guys are sort of like magicians to the rest of us. I mean, sure I've had programming classes up to data-structures, but this stuff is just impressive.

Having done some really high level work with macromedia director, or javascript, I understand (though I'm sure to no extent that other real programmers know) the kinds of headaches that come with doing these types of projects, but I also know how rewarding these things can be.

I think these devolpers are doing awesome work, and encouraging dev work in os X.

Thanks, guys. Looking forward to the next version.

unfaded · May 30, 2002, 07:49 PM

Take everything ford perfect just said, mix the words around a little, and you have my state of the developer address as well. Or something. I'm tired.

And looking forward to Mu! I don't think I've ever posted as much in a thread as I have this one. Maybe it's cos I'm a musician. Maybe.

Anyways, looking very much forward to Beta 2, and am very sad I will have to download it on this 56k connection (unless it isn't released till September...which would make me even sadder).

And as for the round of applause...

*stands and ovates*

[ 05-30-2002, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: unfaded ]

[APi]TheMan · May 31, 2002, 08:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by yukon:
[QUOTE]I want to vote for including MikMod functionality into Mu. Just needs playlisting, no advanced features. Other users would like to see this too. "fruitz of dojo" ported mikmod to use coreaudio, so nothing needs to be done to mikmod first. "shellplay" is a basic little program you can use that comes with mikmod.<hr /></blockquote>And what is Mikmod? /me goes to search on google.

Edit: Gotcha... I have no interest in playing MOD files... or any of the other formats supported by libMikmod... hehe

[ 05-31-2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: [APi]TheMan ]

fitter · Jun 3, 2002, 01:28 PM

Basic library support is done. One small bug to fix (involving window title), and beta 2 is ready for public consumption. I'll be back on broadband sometime this evening; expect an update then.

IamBob · Jun 3, 2002, 11:41 PM

yay!

*bump*

fitter · Jun 5, 2002, 12:33 PM

Thanks for your patience.

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/fitter/.cv/fitter/Public/mu%2D0.3.5%2Dbeta%2D2.tgz-binhex.hqx" target="_blank">Mu 0.3.5 beta 2</a> is here.

Features library support (prompts for creation if a library is not detected), multiple file drag and drop, many bug fixes, minor UI changes, basic volume control, and a few other things I can't think of at the moment.

mpg123 v 0.59r playback now works, but doesn't give any UI feedback other than playing/not playing. (It crashes if not run in quiet mode; still haven't figured this one out.)

TinyTunes support is still lacking, unfortunately. Working on it.

Fixed the issue where Mu would exit if you didn't have mpegToaster.framework installed. The framework is now bundled in the application.

Let us know what you think.

[ 06-05-2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: fitter ]

unfaded · Jun 5, 2002, 01:14 PM

Mu 0.3.5 beta 2 bugs/suggestions (I'm on top of things! hehe)

� When clicking "apply" in the preferences, the Song/Artist field turns into a grey block. (I believe when "grey" is selected for toolbar colours...but if you're playing a song at the time you click apply, the words Song and Artist just disappear). If it IS meant to happen because of the grey toolbar buttons setting, it doesn't survive a quit, and I'm greeted with the blue Song/Artist field.
� For some reason, Mu scanned one of my folders (with 4 sub-folders) and only chose to show one of the sub-folders' contents. And it wasn't the first alphabetically (although it was the smallest), which confuses me even more. Another folder only took 5 of 150. I don't see any similarities between the two, so I have no idea what's causing it.
� Can we get the volume control in the toolbar? It took me forever to find. (I do know it's only preliminary control)
� Mu looks to have created a ghost mp3 with no name at the end of my play list that, when played, crashes Mu.
� The ability to sort things (Ohhhhhhhhh that would be great)
� And, despite your claim otherwise (hehehe), window position doesn't save after a quit and a re-launch.

Anyways, I absolutely love Mu and hate the ever-loving crap out of iTunes now :o) So thank you for this wonderful mp3 player!

Giano · Jun 5, 2002, 03:39 PM

Hi...I love Mu but beta2 has a thing thet i don't really like...beta1 shw in the playslists draw all the subfolder of the folder that you have choosed like playlist....in beta2 instead i see only the first subfolder of Music...but not the other!!! why?

unfaded · Jun 5, 2002, 06:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Giano:
Hi...I love Mu but beta2 has a thing thet i don't really like...beta1 shw in the playslists draw all the subfolder of the folder that you have choosed like playlist....in beta2 instead i see only the first subfolder of Music...but not the other!!! why?<hr /></blockquote>This was actually a suggested feature by nearly everyone on here :o)

Having the subfolders show by default was a smidge annoying for those of who didn't want it. If you really want the subfolders, just make them their own playlists. It's a bit more work, I know, but 3 minutes out of your day won't kill you.

Or, I do believe there is an option to "scan subfolders" or something in the prefs.

Sharky K. · Jun 5, 2002, 07:01 PM

I am little bit afraid that the user interface is not (going to) look very nice...

IamBob · Jun 6, 2002, 12:33 AM

The UI looks a little "off" in this release. Probably from stacking Song and Artist...

At some point we'll (probably) show more than Song and Artist. We can't keep stacking. Already it looks weird - that space is too large.

It wouldn't be too bad if we ticker-scrolled the info. Well, aside from the CPU usage going up...

I really liked the old Song/Artist bar but, looking ahead, where should this type of info be put?

Synotic · Jun 6, 2002, 02:05 AM

OK, it's much better from older versions I've tried

As a honorary tribute to Mu, I've created fairly functional version of Sharky's idea <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/phobosdownloads/Music.nib.tgz" target="_blank">here</a>. Stick it in Mu.app/Contents/Resources/

Now when I say fairly functional.. I dunno why the artist and song name fields aren't updating.. they're hooked up properly.. and to get the playlist in the main window to show up you need to press the drawer toolbar button (then you can close it) same with if you add a playlist and need to see it. I guess it updates whenever you click the drawer button. Also volume doesn't seem to work :/ but other than that it seems to work, I messed with a few connections and it should even resize nicely:

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/phobosdownloads/Mu.jpg" alt=" - " />

Now for feature suggestions/bugs

<ol type="1">[*]Bug� Mu is very buggy, randomly quits often...</li>[*]Bug� When first in a playlist and double-clicking on a song.. it plays the first song rather than the one chosen.</li>[*]Feature� When no song is paused or playing, and everything is just paused.. the Play button should check which song is selected then play that. I am not sure if it does this yet, I just tried playing a song and it crashed

</li>[*]Gripe� The folder that was downloaded was confusing as hell. You have a folder called Contents and Mu which I think are both used in the app bundle (the names) so that's confusing.. and then the actual app is within a folder within the main folder?? How about ONE app? No external folders.. no nothing.. That's the beauty of bundles. It shouldn't be too hard.</li>[*]Feature� The last used playlist should be displayed at startup.</li>[*]There's an empty MP3 at the end of every playlist?

</li>[/list=a]etc.. etc.. that's it for now since I have to leave but I will add more later. HTH

oVeRmInD911 · Jun 6, 2002, 03:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Synotic:
I've created fairly functional version of Sharky's idea <hr /></blockquote>Wow, Synotic, this interface rocks! Thanks and good job. Now you just need the strange green minimize maximize feature so I can dock Mu in the bottom left of my screen. Other than that, great! Keep up the good work all of you developers and people pointing out bugs! You're what make the Mac OS platform superior.

�~oVeRmInD911~!

crazyjohnson · Jun 6, 2002, 07:10 AM

Sorry everyone, for some reason the app quits every time for me . . .After asking about the lib. If I say yes or no, the app quits. Do I have to have anything in the frameworks folder still?

Giano · Jun 6, 2002, 08:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Having the subfolders show by default was a smidge annoying for those of who didn't want it. If you really want the subfolders, just make them their own playlists. It's a bit more work, I know, but 3 minutes out of your day won't kill you.
<hr /></blockquote>my problem is: i have in music folder a subfolder album and i have in it many subfolders of different album......would be nice if even in Mu playlists the different albums were showed.....in this way i have not to search for the song in the big playlist or make many playlist.......sure the best thing is to have a search or a sort utility...........make it

HIIII

dont.wanna.tell · Jun 9, 2002, 02:46 PM

>bump<

Will there be an update around soon? <g>

cu Martin

unfaded · Jun 9, 2002, 07:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Giano:
my problem is: i have in music folder a subfolder album and i have in it many subfolders of different album......would be nice if even in Mu playlists the different albums were showed.....in this way i have not to search for the song in the big playlist or make many playlist.......sure the best thing is to have a search or a sort utility...........make it

HIIII[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>So, you want an Audion-style playlist? If so, write an mpg123 plug-in for it, and optimise the hell out of it :o )

sibellc · Jun 12, 2002, 11:24 PM

I just downloaded Mu yesterday, and must say that it is absolutely amazing. 8% cpu utilization, a clean interface and it is stable enough as long as you don't tinker with it too much. Kudos to the developer!

Cody

Sharky K. · Jun 16, 2002, 10:56 AM

any news on improved playlist configuration options?

fitter · Jul 2, 2002, 01:12 AM

Expect something tomorrow morning. A whole new look, drag and drop rearrangement of playlists, etc.

Gul Banana · Jul 2, 2002, 10:38 AM

*starts a cheer squad*

fitter · Jul 2, 2002, 02:25 PM

OK. Mu version 0.3.5 beta 3 is now available ( <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/fitter/.cv/fitter/Public/mu%2D0.3.5b3.tgz-link.tgz" target="_blank">download</a> ).

Features:
* A redesigned interface, based loosely on the interface posted by Synotic. Because of the redesign, those of you who have used earlier versions of Mu will have to update your toolbars. To do this, go to the Window menu > Customize Toolbar..., and arrange your toolbar in the manner of your choosing.

* Drag and drop to rearrange song order in playlists, as well as drag and drop support for files from Finder.

* You can now delete items from the current playlist. At present, this only removes the item from the list, not from the disk. I will add an option in the preferences allowing you to delete the file(s) in 0.3.5 final.

* Minor under-the-hood changes (enhanced, faster mpg123 rogue process killer; memory leak fix; method optimizations).
--

You'll note that I've shamefully borrowed the OmniWeb reload image for this release. I intend to have a more appropriate image in its place for the final.

Enjoy. Let me know what you think.

fitter · Jul 2, 2002, 02:33 PM

I thought a screenshot would be appropriate:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/fitter/.Pictures/mubeta3.tiff" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/fitter/.Pictures/mubeta3.tiff</a>

[ Edit: Synotic has a point. ]

[ 07-02-2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: fitter ]

Synotic · Jul 2, 2002, 03:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by fitter:
I thought a screenshot would be appropriate:

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/fitter/.Pictures/mubeta3.tiff" alt=" - " /><hr /></blockquote>TIFFs are not meant for the web

Maybe I'm just grumpy because I don't have access to OS X/OmniWeb...

bmedina · Jul 2, 2002, 04:31 PM

Wow, I really like the new look. Thanks! And keep up the good work!

Sharky K. · Jul 2, 2002, 05:09 PM

better but I still think my design is better

I also wouldn't like to see all folders in the music folder in the playlist list.. just one "music" folder.

Hornet · Jul 3, 2002, 04:33 AM

Wow, beta 3 is good

Had a crash, but not too bad. Going OK.

I haven't chimed in on this thread before, sort of been the forum lercher, just watching, looking etc. What I'd like to see now (now that I really consider Mu a possible candidate for a replacement program - previously just a little experiment, but its pretty serious now...)

1. Fixed up playlists. I can't remove folders that I don't want... this is a bit of a problem. I can delete, but uhhh..... I don't want to delete my music thanks

2. Improve the layout of music. At the moment, its all jumbled up. Time to move from file names to ID3 tags, like itunes. The same lists as iTunes would work well. I can't stand my music all jumbled in names (how my file names are - as I download, rip, 'borrow' files etc

everything gets messed around in file names - ID3 tags remain pure). AND.... considering the new finder in 10.2 does ID3 tags, I think its the 'way of the future' for X

And thats about all I need for a fully functional MP3 player, heh
Any news on CD burning support? Apparently apple are opening up the API... would make it a snatch to implement... maybe

Good work guys, keep it up. Can't wait for beta 4!

fitter · Jul 3, 2002, 11:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sharky K.:
better but I still think my design is better

<hr /></blockquote>You'll notice I didn't call this 0.3.5 final.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I also wouldn't like to see all folders in the music folder in the playlist list.. just one "music" folder.<hr /></blockquote>The problem with that is Mu would have to scan the entire contents of ~/Music every time this hypothetical Music folder was clicked on. Potentially this could be very slow. I was considering putting a pair of tabs in place of the Playlist list, one of which held playlists, the other display folders found in ~/Music. At any rate, this isn't going to make it into 0.3.5 final.

fitter · Jul 3, 2002, 12:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hornet:
Wow, beta 3 is good

Had a crash, but not too bad. Going OK.
<hr /></blockquote>Can you reproduce it? If so, let me know the details. I'm always eager to squash bugs.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
1. Fixed up playlists. I can't remove folders that I don't want... this is a bit of a problem. I can delete, but uhhh..... I don't want to delete my music thanks

<hr /></blockquote>I'm a little unsure what you're after here. You want to delete the folders but not their contents?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
2. Improve the layout of music. At the moment, its all jumbled up. Time to move from file names to ID3 tags, like itunes. The same lists as iTunes would work well. I can't stand my music all jumbled in names (how my file names are - as I download, rip, 'borrow' files etc

everything gets messed around in file names - ID3 tags remain pure). AND.... considering the new finder in 10.2 does ID3 tags, I think its the 'way of the future' for X

<hr /></blockquote>Yup. Probably won't be in 0.3.5 final, but a kind soul from Germany sent me some code that parses ID3 tags a while back, so it's just a matter of implementing it. (IamBob actually started some preliminary work on this some time ago, but we both had more pressing things to attend to, and it was left incomplete.)

 <blockquote>quote:<hr />
And thats about all I need for a fully functional MP3 player, heh
Any news on CD burning support? Apparently apple are opening up the API... would make it a snatch to implement... maybe

<hr /></blockquote>Yes. The Disc Burning API was demo'd at WWDC 2002. I was in the audience. It's very powerful, and the Cocoa wrapper for it seems very easy to include in projects. It won't arrive till the release of 10.2, though, so inclusion of it in Mu is still some ways off.

Sharky K. · Jul 3, 2002, 02:02 PM

I hope Mu will use mpg123 just as a player not more in the future. Same as Cellulo uses quicktime.

- delete the 16x16 icons in the list.
- volume slider does not work
- artist and song are wrongly placed in the window

for the rest, nice update... I like draging folders in the playlist list

[ 07-03-2002, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Sharky K. ]

fitter · Jul 3, 2002, 02:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sharky K.:

- volume slider does not work
<hr /></blockquote>Ah, but it does. Due to the way mpg123 implements volume scaling, the change in volume only takes effect before you begin playing the song(s). It's not dynamic. I could hook into the system volume, but I've always disliked applications that change the system volume: what if I want to have something playing quietly in the background while listening to something else? There's no immediate solution for this.

[APi]TheMan · Jul 4, 2002, 03:29 AM

.35 is very nice. I'm already content with Mu as an MP3 player, any new features are great, but it already does anything I want it to do. Mu seems to be crash-prone, though. That's the only thing that could be worked on, but take your time. Well done, fitter, thank you.

Hornet · Jul 4, 2002, 08:10 AM

OK cool. just clearing up with fitter on point 1:

What I mean is, Mu locks onto a folder on my hard drive with music, representing that folder in its sidebar.

I want Mu to not see that folder anymore. Usually, this would be 'deleting the folder' (from the program). However Mu thinks I want to delete the REAL folder + music in it......

Consider an itunes playlist, say it was a folder on you're hard drive. Add it to Mu, its in the sidebar. Wanna remove the playlist? Mu will only let you do it by deleting the REAL folder + music. I just want it to lock off my folder

cleared up?

coolies

Doerak- · Jul 4, 2002, 08:21 AM

Mu 3.5 crashes on me. If I delete the ~/Libary/Mu directory, it asks wether to build a new mp3 database from my Homedirectory. During the build, it crashes with no error msg in console.log. If I immediatly restart Mu then (with a half Libary) it crashes with console.log>"2002-07-04 14:15:35.115 Mu[3036] killed 0 rogue mpg123 processes". Are there more preferences i have to delete to get it working, or am I in bad luck, and do I have to wait for the next version...

fitter · Jul 4, 2002, 09:29 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
.35 is very nice. I'm already content with Mu as an MP3 player, any new features are great, but it already does anything I want it to do. Mu seems to be crash-prone, though. That's the only thing that could be worked on, but take your time. Well done, fitter, thank you.

<hr /></blockquote>I'm glad you like it. The reaction on versiontracker has been mixed, largely, I think, because I forgot to remove some obsolete items from the preferences, and people are expecting it to do certain things based on the items in the preference sheet.

I've uncovered at least a pair of bad bugs in 0.3.5, and there are more than likely dozens more. I'd like to get it to a stable state before releasing 0.3.5 final.

fitter · Jul 4, 2002, 09:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doerak-:
Mu 3.5 crashes on me. If I delete the ~/Libary/Mu directory, it asks wether to build a new mp3 database from my Homedirectory. During the build, it crashes with no error msg in console.log. If I immediatly restart Mu then (with a half Libary) it crashes with console.log>"2002-07-04 14:15:35.115 Mu[3036] killed 0 rogue mpg123 processes". Are there more preferences i have to delete to get it working, or am I in bad luck, and do I have to wait for the next version...<hr /></blockquote>There's a set of preferences in ~/Library/Preferences called com.scaremonger.mu.plist. Try deleting that.

The rogue processes thing is just a report telling you how many mpg123 processes were killed by Mu at launch, the assumption being that if you launch Mu, you don't want any other mpg123 processes playing at the same time. I'm surprised there were no meaningful messages in the console when it crashed. I'll look into it.

I'll do some more testing and try to resolve these crashing bugs.

fitter · Jul 4, 2002, 09:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hornet:
OK cool. just clearing up with fitter on point 1:

What I mean is, Mu locks onto a folder on my hard drive with music, representing that folder in its sidebar.

I want Mu to not see that folder anymore. Usually, this would be 'deleting the folder' (from the program). However Mu thinks I want to delete the REAL folder + music in it......

Consider an itunes playlist, say it was a folder on you're hard drive. Add it to Mu, its in the sidebar. Wanna remove the playlist? Mu will only let you do it by deleting the REAL folder + music. I just want it to lock off my folder

cleared up?

coolies<hr /></blockquote>Got it. Looks like we should change the way that's done. Maybe Sharky's idea is better than I gave him credit for.

Doerak- · Jul 4, 2002, 11:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by fitter:
There's a set of preferences in ~/Library/Preferences called com.scaremonger.mu.plist. Try deleting that.
<hr /></blockquote>This works, the file was probarbly damaged. Thanks! Great work!

Ps Personally I get the best results with TinyTunes. The standard mpg123 decoder for macosx is kind of buggy I think. How is it for other people out there?

davecom · Jul 5, 2002, 07:23 PM

Hey, who made your toolbar icons? I need toolbar icons like that for the next beta of CCDP ...

fitter · Jul 6, 2002, 10:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davecom:
Hey, who made your toolbar icons? I need toolbar icons like that for the next beta of CCDP ...<hr /></blockquote>Sharky K.

Giano · Jul 9, 2002, 09:23 AM

Hi.....I liked Mu, but in my opinion you are taking the wrong way....The goal of Mu wa to create a small, efficient mp3 player.....every project must have own goal....this was Mu gol.....yes you can decide to create a bigger appllication but if you don't reach first the first goal it will be only an unusefull application......The new Mu Gui is too big for his goal, and the newplaylist is unusefull.....better a simple playlist like the first MU.....the fact i that the new Mu is nice yes, but the basic functions don't work!!! why don't you create a good playlist first to to create a new Gui, 0.3.0 was a nice GUI, smaller, more usefull if you want to create a light mp3 player that was the way ...now you are tryng to create a little new iTunes but without the basic feature it is only one of the many mp3 player...without a "spirit"...sure this is only my opinion i think it could be usefull for you to know what people think...or not? now I use 0.3.0....and I used the first Mu if I had not cancel it days ago.....an error....why don't you put it in the download page? it was a little big application!!!
Hi...

Sharky K. · Jul 9, 2002, 03:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Giano:
Hi.....I liked Mu, but in my opinion you are taking the wrong way....The goal of Mu wa to create a small, efficient mp3 player.....every project must have own goal....this was Mu gol.....yes you can decide to create a bigger appllication but if you don't reach first the first goal it will be only an unusefull application......The new Mu Gui is too big for his goal, and the newplaylist is unusefull.....better a simple playlist like the first MU.....the fact i that the new Mu is nice yes, but the basic functions don't work!!! why don't you create a good playlist first to to create a new Gui, 0.3.0 was a nice GUI, smaller, more usefull if you want to create a light mp3 player that was the way ...now you are tryng to create a little new iTunes but without the basic feature it is only one of the many mp3 player...without a "spirit"...sure this is only my opinion i think it could be usefull for you to know what people think...or not? now I use 0.3.0....and I used the first Mu if I had not cancel it days ago.....an error....why don't you put it in the download page? it was a little big application!!!
Hi...

<hr /></blockquote>the goal is to be an iTunes replacement (or better) with mpg123. I also have to disagree about the rest (other than the playlist bugs)

Doerak- · Jul 11, 2002, 05:03 AM

Bump bump bump...

Any news? Mu 3.5 is pretty ok, but a lot of work needs to be done. Any chance on an update soon?

yukon · Jul 28, 2002, 01:11 PM

so what, Mu is dead? and the others too? what happened??

please release the code to Mu.

fitter · Jul 29, 2002, 01:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by yukon:
so what, Mu is dead? and the others too? what happened??
<hr /></blockquote>Impatience will get you nowhere. Working on ID3 support.

Hornet · Jul 29, 2002, 08:38 AM

Cool cool

ID3 support at iTunes's level... and the deleting thing I mentioned, and its all on for Mu!

nonhuman · Jul 29, 2002, 09:22 AM

Is there any chance of incorporating ogg123 into Mu as a backend option in addition to mpg123?

fitter · Jul 29, 2002, 01:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nonhuman:
Is there any chance of incorporating ogg123 into Mu as a backend option in addition to mpg123?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, I've been working on this. I haven't been able to build ogg123 on OS X yet, but I think I'll be able to get it done. You would need libogg and libvorbis AND libao for it to work.

OT: vrag moego vraga moi drug.

[APi]TheMan · Jul 29, 2002, 01:34 PM

Wow, some people are impatient. I just download new Mu builds, use 'em side by side with iTunes and calmly await news for Mu. Why bug the developer for progress announcements and when he doesn't reply, then ask that the source be posted.

Just put your hands in your pockets and wait. Sheesh.