[Scott_H]

Well we heard about 10.1 but don't have it yet. It will be a free download OR $20 to get it on a CD in the mail. Here's hoping that Apple comes though on claims of speed. If there's no OS X Rage Pro driver by then I'll pop a blood vessel in my brain


Here's Apple's page on 10.1

New Version 10.1

[a holck]

Ok, so we saw:

Illustrator
Indesign
Office
Mediacleaner
IDVD2
Virtual PC
Quark Xpress
Filemaker Server
DVD player
OSX 10.1

and we cant have any of it yet (for real)

Thats just MEAN!!!!

[Scott_H]

I forgot to mention that it's due out in September.


I was surprised to see the large number of third party apps on display. I wasn't expecting the news to be that good. I hope most of them make it for 10.1. That means Apple needs to get them a good version in about two months so third parties can do final testing and get the apps ready for 10.1.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Before you think that 10.1 will solve all the speed problems, keep in mind that Steve was most likely showing 10.1 off on the new Dual 800MHz towers with 1.5 Gigs of RAM.

I also remember less then a year ago when he demo'd 4K78 on a Cube. The damn thing FLEW!

Well, here is hoping....

A close friend of mine at MWNY said that the 10.1 demo was done on an old stock configuration 733MHz G4 with 256MB RAM. He found this out by going and asking one of the reps in the OS X display section of the booth. Besides, he said the machine was plainly visible from his perpspective (he was on far left) below the LCD display and it was clear it was an "old" G4 graphite case.

[cwasko]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>Here's Apple's page on 10.1

New Version 10.1</STRONG>

Anyone notice that the scroll arrows are next to each other in the Column View example in the above URL?

From Steve's demo and what is on this page, I think I'm finally excited about OSX. But, I'm still pissed that we didn't get this in March.

[MusicMac]

I was geting used to cooking dinner while IE 5.1 loaded under OSX...I had to change my pants when I saw that sucker start up!

Posted as "Read, ya nitwits", it was mentioned immediately after the expo that steve's old machine could be a dual 800. But, and this is from a friend at the expo who asked, yes, there is better rage pro driver. So expect some speed but they are still working on the driver.

[JLL]

Originally posted by a holck:
<STRONG>Ok, so we saw:

Illustrator
Indesign
Office
Mediacleaner
IDVD2
Virtual PC
Quark Xpress
Filemaker Server
DVD player
OSX 10.1

and we cant have any of it yet (for real)

Thats just MEAN!!!!
</STRONG>

You forgot GoLive.

BTW. didn't Word use sheets when MS showed that you could continue working after pressing cmd-s ?

[iloveOSX]

yes. word did you sheets. he mentioned that part of it were done in cocoa (or called cocoa0 i do rem him saying something about cocoa.

[Colonel Panic]

10.1 looked solid at the preview on the show floor. You could watch a guy demo it but not play with it.

Everything seemed speedy pretty, and he was putting a load on the processor. Resizing was acceptable, but not great. A damn sight better than 10.0.4, though.

He blew through a lot of apps and it peformed flawlessly. Made me pissed that we can't have whatever build that is now - even if buggy it's a lot better than 10.0.4. I'll take a 10.1 "beta" now, please....!


Annoyingly, all the 10.1 previews were running on dual 800's. HArd to say how much extra performance came out of the additional 1100Mhz in those machines versus my Cube....

[Codename]

I can confirm that the OS X.1 demo Steve did was indeed run on an pre-MacWorld "old" G4 as Spoo puports as evident from the case, however, I do not know how fast the machine was.

I also find it interesting that Steve used a rather simple gray/blueish wallpaper as he did the demo. Perhaps to boost performance?

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]

[GnOm]

you can have Toast (okay it�s a beta but it works).
Other than that I�m pretty impressed of the 10.1 Demo, wish I knew for sure on wich machine it was done.
And September (could it be the 21st, yeah speculation is fun) seems a bit far away...

cu.


[edit]: this was in reply to "a holc"

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: GnOm ]

Originally posted by iloveOSX:
<STRONG>yes. word did you sheets. he mentioned that part of it were done in cocoa (or called cocoa0 i do rem him saying something about cocoa.</STRONG>

Don't need Cocoa for sheets.

too bad they're going to charge for the update from 10.0.x to 10.1. but hey, it's apple, and apple is a god. :-D

it was like seeing computers in movies that are supposed to take place 300 years from now.

[King Chung Huang]

Originally posted by &lt;unregistered&gt;:
<STRONG>too bad they're going to charge for the update from 10.0.x to 10.1. but hey, it's apple, and apple is a god. :-D
</STRONG>

Apple is not charging for Mac OS X 10.1! The $19.95 is shipping and handling if you opt to go through the Mac OS Up-to-date program and get a physical CD.

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by &lt;unregistered&gt;:
<STRONG>too bad they're going to charge for the update from 10.0.x to 10.1. but hey, it's apple, and apple is a god. :-D

it was like seeing computers in movies that are supposed to take place 300 years from now.</STRONG>

FREE DOWNLOAD


And any CD from Apple always cost $20. This is not a "profit center" for Apple.

[Synotic]

I was wondering if any of you know if the double-sided scroll bars are only to be on one side? I don't think this feature was built into 9 but it was possible through a script... I am glad to see this as people have been requesting it with my theme...

[email protected]

[pcp_ip]

the upgrade is free to download. they're charging you if you want it on a cd.

disappointing keynote. I wonder what will not end up making it into the september release... you know some part we just saw will be released in november or december....

Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
<STRONG>He blew through a lot of apps and it peformed flawlessly. Made me pissed that we can't have whatever build that is now - even if buggy it's a lot better than 10.0.4. I'll take a 10.1 "beta" now, please....!</STRONG>

Yours for a mere US$499 possibly as soon as next week but don't quote me on that

[M�lum]

Originally posted by Codename:
<STRONG>

I also find it interesting that Steve used a rather simple gray/blueish wallpaper as he did the demo. Perhaps to boost performance?
</STRONG>

No, probably to make it look cleaner and clearer on the screens.

[frawgz]

Originally posted by iloveOSX:
<STRONG>yes. word did you sheets. he mentioned that part of it were done in cocoa (or called cocoa0 i do rem him saying something about cocoa.</STRONG>

It was actually the guy from FileMaker who mentioned incorporating Cocoa.

[DannyVTim]

It's not only the machine that makes a demo look so good. It's the way in whicg they present things. For example, in previous demos the preview app is already loaded and the picture is open; however, the entire app and document are in the background and hided. So, when Steve clicks on the picture in the finder it switches to the preview app, it doesn't launch the app, and preview realizes that the picture is already open and it just brings it to the front. It doesn't actually open it. Try this on your machine now. Load up a pic in preview and go to the finder and hide all. Then double click on the pic doc on the desktop and notice how fast it "opens"

The moral of the story is that a demo is a set of scripted actions designed to make the product look great. You machine won't preform as well, but you can be assured it will be much better.

Or you can go off and believe that Steve has super duper hardware straight from the R&D department just to make window resizing look good.

[The Ancient One]

And any CD from Apple always cost $20. This is not a "profit center" for Apple.

Right - a buck for the CD and $19 for postage. I think they might be making a couple of cents here.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by &lt;Spoo&gt;:
<STRONG>A close friend of mine at MWNY said that the 10.1 demo was done on an old stock configuration 733MHz G4 with 256MB RAM. He found this out by going and asking one of the reps in the OS X display section of the booth. Besides, he said the machine was plainly visible from his perpspective (he was on far left) below the LCD display and it was clear it was an "old" G4 graphite case.</STRONG>

So a OLD G4 sat next to him, who says that it was running the OS. What was under the table?

They could have also just used a old case for the new guts.

I am sure that those 10.1 demo's were on a dual 800MHz as it looked to good to be true.

[neoTony]

Scott_H: Rage Pro drivers are there. I'm not sure whether they are fully functioning "drivers" in the sense that the accelerate display, or if they are just stubs so the OS knows the cards are there, but there are drivers for the standard RagePro, as well as the "GA" model...e-mail me if you want more info - [email protected].

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
It's not only the machine that makes a demo look so good. It's the way in whicg they present things. For example, in previous demos the preview app is already loaded and the picture is open; however, the entire app and document are in the background and hided. So, when Steve clicks on the picture in the finder it switches to the preview app, it doesn't launch the app, and preview realizes that the picture is already open and it just brings it to the front. It doesn't actually open it. Try this on your machine now. Load up a pic in preview and go to the finder and hide all. Then double click on the pic doc on the desktop and notice how fast it "opens"

Err... yes. This explains the fact that the app icons were actually bouncing. And the fact that it was a demo in front of many people, about the *speed at which apps launch.*

I'd imagine having a fast computer is more likely than having a specially written dock that bounces applications when unhiding them, (and displays the splash screen, in the case of IE's opening.)

C'mon man, think a little?

Originally posted by The Ancient One:
<STRONG>And any CD from Apple always cost $20. This is not a "profit center" for Apple.

Right - a buck for the CD and $19 for postage. I think they might be making a couple of cents here.</STRONG>

Don't forget the people who have to pack the CD. They have to be paid also. Its kind of like going to the hospital. They will charge you $5.00 for an aspirin only because somebody has to give it to you.

Joel

[iamnotmad]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

FREE DOWNLOAD


And any CD from Apple always cost $20. This is not a "profit center" for Apple.</STRONG>

I beg to differ Scott, $20 for shipping and handling (even add in media cost if you like) is way way inflated, like by $15. $15 * oh lets just say 300,000, that's 4.5 mil. nice little profit. That's not free unless I download it, which is fine by me.

[no use for a nick]

Here's what really gets my panties in a bunch:

"Print Away
Print Center now ships with over 200 PostScript printer description files such as those from Hewlett-Packard, Lexmark and Xerox. There is also improved support for most USB printers, with automatic selection of the driver for that particular printer."

That's directly from Apple's site on the "10.1" page. Anyone notice who's missing on that list? Epson. My anger grows yet again with this remarkably lame company.

nick

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by iamnotmad:
<STRONG>

I beg to differ Scott, $20 for shipping and handling (even add in media cost if you like) is way way inflated, like by $15. $15 * oh lets just say 300,000, that's 4.5 mil. nice little profit. That's not free unless I download it, which is fine by me.</STRONG>

The download will be free. $20 is not just for "shipping and handling" or even media. You need to pay people to make the software distro. You need to pay people to set up the web based order and phone order. You need to pay people manage the computers systems to do evey aspect of this whole thing....

Apple may or may not "make money" off the $20 CD. But there's no way this $20 CD adds anything to Apple's bottom line. The $20 is to cover costs and nothing more.

Originally posted by &lt;Anonymous Dogcoward&gt;:
<STRONG>

Yours for a mere US$499 possibly as soon as next week but don't quote me on that </STRONG>

Yeah, _right_! I don't think I'll be renewing my Select developer subscription. Without breaking my NDA, I can tell you I hardly get anything from those swines. I would advise anyone against buying such a subscription if they thought they were going to get any decent seeds.

Originally posted by &lt;Anonymous Dogcoward&gt;:
<STRONG>

Yours for a mere US$499 possibly as soon as next week but don't quote me on that </STRONG>

Yeah, _right_! I don't think I'll be renewing my Select developer subscription. Without breaking my NDA, I can tell you I hardly get anything from those swines. I would advise anyone against buying such a subscription if they thought they were going to get any decent seeds.

[rothomp3]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>

So a OLD G4 sat next to him, who says that it was running the OS. What was under the table?

They could have also just used a old case for the new guts.

I am sure that those 10.1 demo's were on a dual 800MHz as it looked to good to be true.</STRONG>

That's not logical... that's pure pessimism! Cheer up, there is absolutely no reason to be so sure. Profiling of the 10.0.x kernel showed it had a lot of I/O bottlenecks. Clear those up, and you'd go a long way toward speeding up app launches, for example.

later,
rothomp3

[Timo]

Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
10.1 looked solid at the preview on the show floor. You could watch a guy demo it but not play with it.

Everything seemed speedy pretty, and he was putting a load on the processor. Resizing was acceptable, but not great. A damn sight better than 10.0.4, though.

He blew through a lot of apps and it peformed flawlessly. Made me pissed that we can't have whatever build that is now - even if buggy it's a lot better than 10.0.4. I'll take a 10.1 "beta" now, please....!


Annoyingly, all the 10.1 previews were running on dual 800's. HArd to say how much extra performance came out of the additional 1100Mhz in those machines versus my Cube....

I saw this elsewhere:

from griffman @Macworld forums (http://www.macworld.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001733.html)

Finally, 10.1 on a G3 will be very nice. I had the privilege of using a build for about 30 minutes on a G3/450 about a month ago. It easily matched my G4/733 for window resizing speed, and blew it away at app launching. I am 100% certain that I used a legit build on a legit box, but I can't say more than that. So have faith, G3 owners, the future looks faster!

Let's hope so.

T

[TC]

Just been looking at exactly what is coming here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/

No mention of PCMCIA support for storage cards or being able to set up video mirroring/TV out on a laptop without having to restart. Great having a DVD player, but if I have to restart every time I want to watch one on my TV then it isn�t much better than the reboot into OS 9.

In my opinion Macworld was a total let down, not one single new hardware proudct, the iMacs and Powermacs are just revamped. These could have been introduced without an expo and we could all just wait until September without getting excited about the potential of LCD iMacs and 10.1 being released today.

Sorry, it isn�t all bad, I like the resizing in column view (will it remember settings?) and am so happy to see smart scrolling reintroduced, but still no mention of spring loaded folders.

Also after all the fuss of using the dock for everything, why have they added little icons on the menu bar??????

If it is September 21st then we have another 65 days to wait!

Final, final rant �The Dock also satisfies another popular request. You can now choose to keep it on he right or left of the screen, as well as the bottom�, we have always been able to do this, Apple just chose to hide it from us. they make it sound as if they have been busy implementing this new feature!

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

So a OLD G4 sat next to him, who says that it was running the OS. What was under the table?

They could have also just used a old case for the new guts.

I am sure that those 10.1 demo's were on a dual 800MHz as it looked to good to be true.

Yeah. For all we know it wasn't really Steve Jobs up there, just a holographic image of the bastard!

[apple emp]

see what rumors due to you people?

you were all worked into a lather by meader and nick de plume and others. They dont have a freaking clue about what goes on within apple.

so here's to people getting their jollies by posting bad info and the mac community getting upset at apple because the rumors werent true.

[apple emp]

see what rumors due to you people?

you were all worked into a lather by meader and nick de plume and others. They dont have a freaking clue about what goes on within apple.

so here's to people getting their jollies by posting bad info and the mac community getting upset at apple because the rumors werent true.

[Judge_Fire]

There was one thing Steve skipped due to some glitch - creating a Desktop Picture from the digital camera images.

This is of particular interest to me, because I've seen several Mac + OS X newbies having trouble with changing the background pic. They logically head to System Prefs, where you set practically everything that affects your screen. Like the theme color, or screen saver, or res, or colors etc. etc.

Not one of these 5 -6 Mac newbies ever found the Finder's preferences. (And same thing with trying to set up a printer ... "it must be in the System Prefs, right?")

So what was about to happen? Steve had System Prefs open, but something went horribly wrong... was he trying to use a contextual menu maybe?

(greetings from paradise/hell... LOL )

[moreno]

i see the most of features that i request, real now.
thanks Apple and thanks to all Mac OS X team.

Let's start the countdown again users... to september...
Mac OS X will kick the windows XP ass.

[I'mDaMac]

Well it finally looks like we're winding down the public beta 2 phase of Mac OS X and will be getting a bona fide release in September. IMHO, this is what Apple should have released back in March but were unable to. It is disappointing that we have to wait 'til September as 10.1 looks promising indeed. Then again, so did 10.0. Oh well, I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Brit Ben]

To everyone with concerns about speed or veracity of the keynote demos, I'm intrigued by a conversation started on the macnn.com front page about how the demo could have been rigged using some kind of memory based disk - anyone know where this went ?

I set up a similar system to load domain name server software much faster at my old job. A virtual disk was created using memory, then the apps and config files were disk imaged into the virtual disk so that the whole lot could essentially be read from real RAM. This was for loading top level nameserver files. It cut the config file load time from almost 15 minutes to around three, excluding the initial copy operation, so I'm curious if this could be done to speed app launch like internet explorer.


It would also have been simple to put the new dual G4 guts inside an old case.
Whilst the simplest explanation is often true, it does in this case appear too good to be true.

Sigh. Here's hoping it was true.... ALL of it.

[iamnotmad]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

The download will be free. $20 is not just for "shipping and handling" or even media. You need to pay people to make the software distro. You need to pay people to set up the web based order and phone order. You need to pay people manage the computers systems to do evey aspect of this whole thing....

Apple may or may not "make money" off the $20 CD. But there's no way this $20 CD adds anything to Apple's bottom line. The $20 is to cover costs and nothing more.</STRONG>

Apple says it's just for shipping and handling. $20 for a free cd is not free.

Mind you I have no problem with that at all, all I have a problem with is them saying it's free and tacking on $20 for shipping and handling. That's crap. It's like ordering from one of those companies in ariline magazines that have "free" sunglasses with $15-$20 shipping and handling. It's clearly not free, don't say it is. Shipping a cd is a couple bux. Trying to cover all your other costs? Then it isn't free.

[Scott_H]

Brit Ben do you think Apple would bother?


What do you all think of the new menu icons on the right? I like the analog clock. I look forward to using that for things like PPP and the rest. No more launching and app to then dial in and have to keep is "running" all the time. One less item in my dock.

[I'mDaMac]

Originally posted by moreno:
<STRONG>i see the most of features that i request, real now.
thanks Apple and thanks to all Mac OS X team.

Let's start the countdown again users... to september...
Mac OS X will kick the windows XP ass.</STRONG>

Well moreno, I have to agree with you. That demo of 10.1 today has re-ignited my enthusiasm for OS X. I'm hoping Apple delivers this time around.

[I'mDaMac]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>What do you all think of the new menu icons on the right? I like the analog clock. I look forward to using that for things like PPP and the rest. No more launching and app to then dial in and have to keep is "running" all the time. One less item in my dock.</STRONG>

I like 'em, the volume control is way overdue. I'm most happy though that the controls for iTunes and other apps finally got integrated into the app's icons and not into a separate dock extra.

[drjoe]

At this point I am unable to say which I admire more:

The ability of Steve to talk for two hours and say nothing:

OR

The ability of Steve to sell 150,000+ plus fools a dysfunctional and incomplete operating system for a total cash intake of $17,000,000 - probably enough to finish it up the way it should have been in the first place.

as the obnoxious little kid said at the big parade:

"The Emperor is naked"

drjoe

I wonder what will not end up making it into the september release... you know some part we just saw will be released in november or december....

Wow, your life must be pretty boring!

"Look, I just won the lottery! Thirty million dollars! Oh well, I'll probably die before I can get to spend all that."

[pcp_ip]

Wow, your life must be pretty boring!

yup,all i do is troll these forums like you.